I think people have a hard time discerning the difference between an article and an opinion piece. Opinion related articles sometimes mistakenly referred to as op-eds. Are all about sensationalism that is the point, to rant about a given subject that infuriates the author/journalist.

Originally posted by Derros

Originally posted by Daitengu

I think people are also forgetting one issue with forcing players to play their genders.  That is scammers. 

 

When the player base thinks people are playing the appropriate gender it opens up the possibility for dating scams. Think,"Send me xxx cash so I can meet you in person." type scams as an example.

 

I dont really understand this, women can scam just as well as any man.  Somone playing a male character could also say they are female, they just dont want to go through the hassel of proving it to play one.  It wouldnt really do anything to stop it.  Also anyone stupid enough to agree to something like that deserves to get scammed.

It's a complacency issue.  If everyone played their gender. The average person would get complacent in this fact and some would fall victim to these type of scam more often than if it was a grab bag of "You never who is playing who, so pretend their all guys."

Next thing you know they will start asking people who play muscular, athletic good looking characters to provide proof.  I mean...we wouldn't want some ugly person playing an attractive character, or some fat guy playing a muscular toon.  That would be false representation right?  Or some short guy playing a tall toon. 

Basically what is going on here are some very, very horny game developers who probably haven't had sex in a very, very long time.  If they are asking for people to send in pictures of their genitals I think they shoud be investigated, ESPECIALLY if the gamers are minors.  Sounds like pediphelia central over there. 

Very good article Jon, I agree with it 100%.

Good article. Jon managed to make a good point about the pitfalls gender verification could bring us to...

As for Chinese culture, which one? China is not only a multicultural nation with a wide range of diversity and views on gender roles, but its recent history has brought about many cultural changes and upheavals. The Chinese had to endure a "cultural" revolution which destroyed a large part of their heritage and the government in power is a nominally secularist one, meaning that people are suposed to not only have the liberty to base their views on morality in humanist or scientific principles, but based on the ideological premises of Communism should be discouraged from deistic conceptions. Yes, the evolution of Chinese mores is a unique construct and in many ways independent of the development of analogous systems in the west (the former Soviet Union, eastern Europe, Cuba) and it could be argued that Maoism was, at least through some stages, somewhat more tolerant of traditional belief systems.

However, just as in the West, the position of many conservatives has become radicalized as a result of culture shock with the global phenomenon of pop culture introducing liberal values. This culture shock has become accentuated by many of the unique circumstances in China, a previous poster mentioned the one child policy, which has led to a very dynamic and complex cultural landscape.

1. Trying to refer to a baseline core belief scheme is as useless as trying to argue we could find one in western society, even our conservatives no longer adhere to the strict code of victorian era values so prevalent in the 19th century,  and the view of China as a monolithic "backward" society is as wrong as it is unfair.

2. Internet users and specifically gamers, could be considered somewhat separate from the rest of population in that they mantain some distinct attitudes. The willingness for confrontational discussion could be considered an example of such.

3. Gender roles are somewhat more fluid in MMOs, perhaps precissely because of unsubstantial expectations regarding actual physical interaction. Netiquette conventions have surfaced precissely to deal with this phenomena.

As a conclussion i would say that this often refered to cultural distinction may not be as significant a factor as considered by some. I would pose that the internet has created its own set of behavioural norms and that these would far more influence the attitudes of gamers. This is not to say someones cultural background becomes irrelevant on the internet.

If the boom on internet dating in China has spilled into MMOs we should be wary of the consequences this may bring for future game management/development. Its not just the possibility of abuse through the use of webcams. Recent scandals in China have involved women marrying men to later elope with the dowries. Why not verify the women are indeed single if the system is being used for dating? or their background? or if theyre young or pretty? This is a slippery slope that could one day lead to more severe privacy concerns or even pornography and prostitution becoming a part of our games. And while i personally have no objections to this activities (consensual acts amongst adults are no one elses concern) i would hate to see them associated with MMOs, specially being that we are already a target of some groups decrying the dangers of violence in videogames and "internet addiction".

Originally posted by Elikal

Just for the theory: as a gay gamer it NEVER occured to me to play a female char. So much for this.

As to the topic per se - I think it is our strange days of twisted politcal correctness and a twist of some societies to be at odds with sexuality. That Asia is not a very liberal region (sorry, but with all that Confucianism it is IS a fact) is quite known. From personal experience I have seen that the entire topic of sex and gender is something very American. And I am not sorry for saying it. I mean, can you imagine USA has an open gay Foreign Minister? Well, get used to our Mr. Westerwelle. It may sound like an odd reference to you, but IMVPO those things are VERY related. I can't imagine people from France, Sweden, Germany or Swiss having such widespread debates about sex and gender in games.

I just read Bioware's new RPG "Dragon Age" is going to have gay sex as option, and right away where that news was written people wrote they won't buy the game now. I bet my meager fortunes it were Americans. (Sidenote: just to make sure, Americans did things better also, but in every term of gender and sex America is stuck in 1850 moral. Just my 2 Euros. ;) )

Well as a straight gamer I can say that noone cares about your sexual oreintation so get over yourself.

Love being able to know that I'm not being gay. Great work.

"Well as a straight gamer I can say that noone cares about your sexual oreintation so get over yourself."

As another 'straight' gamer, I hate to think you represent my orientation.  And if dude wants to discuss these issues from his perspective, you don't need to agree with him, but you have zero right to speak for me or to dismiss him.

Very interesting

Originally posted by Elikal

Just for the theory: as a gay gamer it NEVER occured to me to play a female char. So much for this.

As to the topic per se - I think it is our strange days of twisted politcal correctness and a twist of some societies to be at odds with sexuality. That Asia is not a very liberal region (sorry, but with all that Confucianism it is IS a fact) is quite known. From personal experience I have seen that the entire topic of sex and gender is something very American. And I am not sorry for saying it. I mean, can you imagine USA has an open gay Foreign Minister? Well, get used to our Mr. Westerwelle. It may sound like an odd reference to you, but IMVPO those things are VERY related. I can't imagine people from France, Sweden, Germany or Swiss having such widespread debates about sex and gender in games.

I just read Bioware's new RPG "Dragon Age" is going to have gay sex as option, and right away where that news was written people wrote they won't buy the game now. I bet my meager fortunes it were Americans. (Sidenote: just to make sure, Americans did things better also, but in every term of gender and sex America is stuck in 1850 moral. Just my 2 Euros. ;) )

 and I'm straight and I have a female toon specifically because its a Blood Elf on WoW and the males look really effeminate, so I figured I might as well have a chick toon. Oh, and I like to undress my Tauren Female and say naughty things to her.

 What this basically boils down to is this for the future of MMO's...

The next Star Wars MMO

The DDO update

The next Cyberpunk MMO

But as OP stated... Tits are not guarantee of sexual confirmation. I can see it already...

"Hey... mom? I wanna play a female character but they need sexual confirmation... can I borrow your vagina for a few minutes? No, it has to be on the webcam! They need proof!"

Originally posted by dhayes68

Next up, players cant play muscle-bound warriors unless they prove they're not fat.

Also, unless you can actually cast magic spells, don't even think of rolling a mage.

That is when I tag the developer with a taser and claim it was magic.

If he argues with me, I tag him with a second "lighning bolt".

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

Originally posted by dhayes68

Next up, players cant play muscle-bound warriors unless they prove they're not fat.

Also, unless you can actually cast magic spells, don't even think of rolling a mage.

 

That is when I tag the developer with a taser and claim it was magic.

If he argues with me, I tag him with a second "lighning bolt".

That's almost as hot as Tauren females.

Originally posted by fenring101

either way its a bit pathetic and unless they do it everytime you log in, it wont solve the problem.  

What problem?  Does the company trying to do this even say why?
 

How about they make the female characters so butt ugly that the male characters are more femanine?

Have you played a male character in Aion?
 

;)

Originally posted by galliard1981

i like the idea. people could finally cybersex with each other without a risk tat there is a guy on the other side 

You're talking about text stimulation. ASCII characters don't have genders. It really makes no difference who is on the other end. Free your mind the rest will follow bubba.

Elikal most people can't differentiate between cross dressers, Gays, and transgenders. Their loss I suppose.

Amazing way for the Chinese companies to discourange female gaming.  Or am I looking at this wrong - maybe they just need a new revenue stream and decided to collect a bunch of web cam streams and sell them.  End result will be a world of all male characters, and parents better make sure that little girls understand never to go near a web cam.

I'm assuming of course that proof well be provided by Web Cam - if they go by blood tests or some other medical exam they will probably want to consult with the IOC.

Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)

Originally posted by Astralglide

Originally posted by mxmissile

I'd think about going back to WoW if Blizzard implemented this.

Why? Are you one of those people who hit on toons based their genders? Poor Taurens, no one ever flirts with their women.

Unless you are a furry...

I never understood guys wanting to play female characters more than I understand crossdressing guys so for me I could not care less if there is a policy that says you cannot play female chars if you are male but also vice versa. So it is a bit weird that it only applies to crossdressing males but not crossdressing females.

But other than that, in sports you have female participants and male participants and even in video game tournaments they often have a division for females and one for males so really what is the problem?

I for one would want to know if the guy/girl I am speaking to in a virtual world is actually a guy/girl. As very few people actually roleplay then saying that you are roleplaying a women (when you are a guy) really does not apply.

So for me, good policy. Will be hard to enforce though...

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Teala

So let's rag on the female gender as if this is our fault.    Also, what does playing a female toon, if you're a guy, have to do with gender specific issues.    Guys have been playing female toons like forever.   Any guys here ever play Tomb Raider?  Thought so.   Nobody thought anything of that did they.    So why make a big deal out of this.   If some frakked up company in China wishes to be stupid...let them.    All this article is is sensationalism.   Come on...this is not worthy of an article.     This is kind of writing is to just get people riled up.    ::sigh::

*ahem*

What?

Can I ask, honestly, whether or not you actually read the article?

No kidding guys have been playing female toons forever. I know I have. This article was written to point out how stupid this particular policy actually is. I'm making a "big deal" out of it because it's completely outrageous. Many news sites picked up on this story and I wanted to use my column this week to rant about how stupid it was.

I could see your complaint if the article had been written from the perspective of : hey, what a great idea... but it wasn't.

 

Why is it outrageous? Many things in life ask you to specify your gender, be it applying for a job or play amateure football. Why would a competetive video game be any different?

It is not politically correct but I dont see what is so outrageous about it.

It does not say that male, female, gay, straight, black, white cannot play. They simply say dont misrepresent/hide your true gender.

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Originally posted by Keogh
 
Jon,
Your opinion is based upon a Western perspective. Everyone in the world does not share the same perspectives, values (or lack of values) as those of the West.
I'd much rather read your commentary about this subject if it included an interview with the studio's management or shed some light upon the difference between the Eastern and Western customer.
You might even interview someone that knows the Chinese culture to gain some insight.
 
 

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This post has hit the nail on he head. The article was written from a purely WESTERN perspective and as such could be seen by people of another culture as being rather biggoted.

Who are we to tell other countries how they should conduct themselves socially...and like it or not MMO's are a Scoial Network as well as a form of entertainment. The demographics of the game in question were never mentioned. If it is young single people looking to meet others online...then assuring the target group that the "female" they meet every night is actually a "female" could be a HUGE selling point.

Originally posted by Rosenthorn

 

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This post has hit the nail on he head. The article was written from a purely WESTERN perspective and as such could be seen by people of another culture as being rather biggoted.

Who are we to tell other countries how they should conduct themselves socially...and like it or not MMO's are a Scoial Network as well as a form of entertainment. The demographics of the game in question were never mentioned. If it is young single people looking to meet others online...then assuring the target group that the "female" they meet every night is actually a "female" could be a HUGE selling point.

With such certainty, the few females actually playing the game will be hounded relentlessly - resulting in no female characters in the game at all, as female players will either play males, or leave the game entirely.

Originally posted by Rosenthorn

 

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Originally posted by Keogh
 
Jon,
Your opinion is based upon a Western perspective. Everyone in the world does not share the same perspectives, values (or lack of values) as those of the West.
I'd much rather read your commentary about this subject if it included an interview with the studio's management or shed some light upon the difference between the Eastern and Western customer.
You might even interview someone that knows the Chinese culture to gain some insight.
 
 

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This post has hit the nail on he head. The article was written from a purely WESTERN perspective and as such could be seen by people of another culture as being rather biggoted.

Who are we to tell other countries how they should conduct themselves socially...and like it or not MMO's are a Scoial Network as well as a form of entertainment. The demographics of the game in question were never mentioned. If it is young single people looking to meet others online...then assuring the target group that the "female" they meet every night is actually a "female" could be a HUGE selling point.

Excactly. In many cultures, pretending to be male when you are female or vice versa is considered deceptive.

Originally posted by junzo316

I can see the company's side of things....Hey guys, look.  We have real girls in our game.  It's a great advertising move, if they can entice the girls to actually play.  On the hand, doesn't it take the RPG out of MMORPG.  Playing in a world as someone different from yourself.  I play online games to get away from reality, and create characters in an online word. (I love using the biography that some games offer)  It's a lot like creating a character in a book, except the world has already been made for you.  Just my take on things...Again, I can see the company's point of view, even if I disagree with it.

Your post contains some very objective points and it is always good to try to see things from the other side. However, for publicity sake, you don't really need to restrict females characters to being played by females in the game to actually show that hawt chix0rs play your games. Look at 'real pic' sites like the CoH faces site (http://faces.cohtitan.com/).This site supposedly shows pics of real life females that play City of Heroes. Though, truly? it would be SERIOUSLY easy to fake - use either your girlfriend's pictures, or, unscrupulous people might have done, steal someone's pictures off the internet.

I remember a person in another MMO game who did exactly that, stealing some 'sample' pictures (which of course were slightly...suggestive) from some girl who had a pay-to-view site. This person was rumored to have been an older woman of large size. She preyed on male players, befriending them and then sending the pictures to get them to pay attention to her to the point of even extracting gifts of money, etc. from them. Caveat gamer, so they say.  :P

A smart player who wanted to keep their female avatar could just have their girlfriend/sister/female friend, sit in for the webcam shot for them. Really, unless there is a live interrogation, (and even then, you could fake that) it would not be hard to fool.

That being said, I agree that this sounds insane by American standards, but their society probably has different morals and perhaps they feel pretending to be female equates to what we would consider cross dressing here.

As a writer, I 'create' male and female characters in my stories. Does that make me butch? Nope. I am all girl. Just because I have written a male into a story (or created some in an MMORPG) does not indicate nor affect my sexual orientation in any way. My gaming partner has a slew of female characters. He RPs them so well that my sister thought he was a real-life female for a long time before I let the cat out of the bag. But trust me, I can vouch that he's not transgendered or gay. Hehehe. I feel playing other characters is more a creative thing but then if you are RP'ing for *cough* other reasons, I suppose gender would really matter. How would you feel if you had some TRULY hot cyber only to find out that curvy little elf was really a burly, hairy, tattooed biker named Duke? *giggle*

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Rosenthorn

 

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This post has hit the nail on he head. The article was written from a purely WESTERN perspective and as such could be seen by people of another culture as being rather biggoted.

Who are we to tell other countries how they should conduct themselves socially...and like it or not MMO's are a Scoial Network as well as a form of entertainment. The demographics of the game in question were never mentioned. If it is young single people looking to meet others online...then assuring the target group that the "female" they meet every night is actually a "female" could be a HUGE selling point.

With such certainty, the few females actually playing the game will be hounded relentlessly - resulting in no female characters in the game at all, as female players will either play males, or leave the game entirely.

There are rules of conduct for being "hounded relentlessly". Besides, I think most males are civilized enough not to do that and if they are not they deserved to be banned.