I know there is a lot of info out there. The developer Q&A is really in depth and I have suspicions my question could be answered if I did a bit more digging but alas I am hoping a kind soul may have the information at his/her disposal and provide it here.

My question relates to how the game will handle zones. Will the game be like WoW where its nearly a seamless world with almost never a required loading screen and nearly limitless people able to be in that zone at the same time, or like Champions Online, Age of Conan or many other MMOs which aren't really MMOs but Guild Wars like zone games which severely hamper exploration and group mechanics all because the tech and content can't handle the demands.

Nothing irks me more than -- "hey group, lets all meet in instance 65".....

I am worried that the console influence will ruin this game and I blame that influence for ruining many other potentially good games.....

both BioWare (SWTOP) and Blizzard are on record that their MMOs are not console friendly and nor could be based on the complexity, functionality and constant change.

given the immense failure of Champions Online (and I believe the console influence there is one of the game's largest problems, hello 30 people zone caps and very limited content) what makes any of us believe STO will turn out any different?

Every time I see an X360 screenie for this game I cringe. Now I am not a console hater, heck I have all of them and play them routinely...my Xbox is great for Madden 10 and I love playing Tekken on my PS3...and well my kids love the Wii Sports Resort....

but MMOs, serious ones at least, arent meant for the confines of consoles...

hence I am very worried about Cryptic and their management philosophy...and worried about STO.

/signed - a hardcore MMO player hoping STO uses instances for raids and not for zone population control. We only need ONE ALPHA quadrant, not 75 of them.

Originally posted by BishopTx

A: I am worried that the console influence will ruin this game and I blame that influence for ruining many other potentially good games.....

both BioWare (SWTOP) and Blizzard are on record that their MMOs are not console friendly and nor could be based on the complexity, functionality and constant change.

B: given the immense failure of Champions Online (and I believe the console influence there is one of the game's largest problems, hello 30 people zone caps and very limited content) what makes any of us believe STO will turn out any different?

Every time I see an X360 screenie for this game I cringe. Now I am not a console hater, heck I have all of them and play them routinely...my Xbox is great for Madden 10 and I love playing Tekken on my PS3...and well my kids love the Wii Sports Resort....

C: but MMOs, serious ones at least, arent meant for the confines of consoles...

hence I am very worried about Cryptic and their management philosophy...and worried about STO.

A: I agree completely.

B: I have been asking that same question to the fanboys of this game for the last six months! You know what anwser I get? "OMG ITS NOT EVEN OUT YET SHUT UP YOU DON'T GET AN OPINION IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME THE MODS SHOULD BAN YOU!" The real anwser is that we shouldn't think any different. Cryptic isn't a bad company and their games aren't terrible in my opinion. But there is only one very specific type of game they know how to make and I believe that STO is (or should be atleast) beyond the scope of that type of MMO. As I am fond of telling people on this forum: You cannot simulate the galaxy in a series of small boxes!

C: I agree completely.

I am not sure what you hope for or are asking for but i can tell you there is no magical formula.WOW gets away with what they do because it is pretty much the lowest tech game left of all the mmorpg's.To be able to have a seamless world[there is actually no such thing]you have to have objects rendered as you move along,so distant objects will be of lowest quality.Personally i prefer  zones,it's loaded and over with,albeit most games zones are so large they still need to render at short distances,but you can do a bit more using zones.

I would say personally there is no way it uses a seamless world.The disturbing thing about STO is how the game came about.

It was started 6 years ago,so expect lower end tech.All Cryptic studios did was inherent the the game content,so artwork models and such.What they did is just implement it all into their own cryptic game engine.I think this site should ask some interview questions related to how much original content and how much new content is being implemented into this game.

This game has been implemented in a VERY short time by Cryptic Studios,about 15 months,that is crazy for a giant type game like STO.This tells me it will be using all the original content developed by Perpetual ENT.How good a job they did on the game ,we will have to wait and see however,in light of how they operated their business,VERY sketchy,almost like SGW fiascal,it leads one to think the game is sketchy at best.

If you are a trek fan as i sort of was back in the day,you have to hope and pray that Cryptic devoted a lot of hours in that short time to make this a grand game.

Originally posted by Wizardry

It was started 6 years ago,so expect lower end tech.All Cryptic studios did was inherent the the game content,so artwork models and such.

This game has been implemented in a VERY short time by Cryptic Studios,about 15 months,that is crazy for a giant type game like STO.This tells me it will be using all the original content developed by Perpetual ENT.

Actually, Cryptic threw out pretty much the entire game Perpetual had made and started over from scratch, minus using the game engine from CO. Nothing of that original product remains. I would kind of doubt that original game even had very much finished anyway.

This won't turn into a WoW thread, but that game is certainly not low tech....far from it. Graphics have actually improved there immensely over time and the tech is solid in many ways...and the game allows for about 10,000 people in a single zone, ala Kalimdor, Northrend, Eastern Kingdoms etc.

And there are no loading screens traversing from the bottom of Silithus to the tops of Winterspring.

But loading screens isnt the biggest issue with the way Cryptic and others like Funcom have used zones to cap populations. Everquest II has a fair number of loading screens (esp in the big cities) but once you're in you're in, and there is only one Qyenos. I dont mind the loading so much as long as I'm not in a hall of mirrors....EQ2 is acceptable.

BUT

In Champions Online there are 75 Canada zones or Desert Zones...I remember playing AOC and being in a group and going from one zone to the next and it would put some of my group in Zone X, some in Zone Y, and others in Zones A B and C. CO and AOC have pop caps below 30 -- 30 people in one very small area....and why is this, so very small amounts of data are all thats needeed for the tiny console memory footprint.

I can just imagine there being 75 Alpha Quadrants, and 125 zones of the same space station with a limited 30 people in each zone...and when you traverse from one zone to the next you have to pick which numbered instance zone you want to go to, oh and don't forget to tell your buddies so they join the same one...

can you imagine WoW if Dalaran was separated into 75 unique instances and players had to coordinate which one to join...you know what would happen, people wouldnt play the game....oh, wait, thats whats happening to CO and AOC and every other game like it.

Cryptic WAKE UP - we already have GUILD WARS -- we don't need more ZONE GAMES...Make STO a true MMO.

I hope these failtastic lite console port wannabe MMOs put the whole concept in its' much deserved grave.

Has the console version of CO even launched yet, or are they still haggling with M$?  AoC's console port will never see the light of day.  Such of waste.

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

A: I hope these failtastic lite console port wannabe MMOs put the whole concept in its' much deserved grave.

B: Has the console version of CO even launched yet, or are they still haggling with M$?  AoC's console port will never see the light of day.  Such of waste.

A: I agree completely.

B: No, it hasn't launched yet. It may never at this rate.

If you go to sites that list game release dates they still list an Xbox 360 version for this game but the release date is "to be announced" if its posted at all.

The official FAQ on the CO site doesn't mention an Xbox version of the game at all anymore. If you scroll down to the question of what systems the game is for it says PC only. (And the STO FAQ used to say the same thing... now it simply says nothing.)

I also found this thread on the official CO forums which blamed the following rumors for the failure to release a 360 version of CO:

1. Microsoft is waiting to see if the game can actually maintain enough subscribers to support a 360 version.
2. Microsoft wants seperate servers for the PC players and the 360 players but Cryptic won't agree.
3. Microsoft and Cryptic can't agree on payment options.
4. Microsoft wants to review every patch to the game before it goes live and Cryptic won't let them.
5. Microsoft is evil and won't accept Cryptic's obvious genius.
6. Microsoft is afraid PC gamers will be mean to the console players...
7. Ect, ect, ect....

Long and sort of it is that it has turned out to be much more difficult than they were expecting to release an MMO on a console. Its like having a second publisher who dissagrees with everyhting the first publisher says. I hope the situation deteroiates to the point that they finally give up and nobody ever tries to make another MMO for the 360 or any other console.

Originally posted by Raltar

 

A: I agree completely.

B: No, it hasn't launched yet. It may never at this rate.

If you go to sites that list game release dates they still list an Xbox 360 version for this game but the release date is "to be announced" if its posted at all.

The official FAQ on the CO site doesn't mention an Xbox version of the game at all anymore. If you scroll down to the question of what systems the game is for it says PC only. (And the STO FAQ used to say the same thing... now it simply says nothing.)

I also found this thread on the official CO forums which blamed the following rumors for the failure to release a 360 version of CO:

1. Microsoft is waiting to see if the game can actually maintain enough subscribers to support a 360 version.
2. Microsoft wants seperate servers for the PC players and the 360 players but Cryptic won't agree.
3. Microsoft and Cryptic can't agree on payment options.
4. Microsoft wants to review every patch to the game before it goes live and Cryptic won't let them.
5. Microsoft is evil and won't accept Cryptic's obvious genius.
6. Microsoft is afraid PC gamers will be mean to the console players...
7. Ect, ect, ect....

Long and sort of it is that it has turned out to be much more difficult than they were expecting to release an MMO on a console. Its like having a second publisher who dissagrees with everyhting the first publisher says. I hope the situation deteroiates to the point that they finally give up and nobody ever tries to make another MMO for the 360 or any other console.

The death of console port MMOs can't come soon enough, although I know realistically, this won't occur until FFXIV tanks.

OK I have to admit I had/have zero interest in CO, but I have to ask:  how the eff did Cryptic NOT have the terms with MS agreed to before they even began working on a console version of the game?  Every day I see something new that makes me question if I want to give Cryptic $50.  Right now I don't have much faith in STO being worth it...it barely even sounds like a MMO.  Thank God Bioware isn't making TOR console friendly.

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Thank God Bioware isn't making TOR console friendly.

Don't be so sure about that. Remember, Bioware = EA now.

I don't want this to turn into a TOR thread but I did check their site and FAQ but I didn't see anything about if the game would be developed for consoles or not. It was actually rather... vague.

To get back onto the topic of STO however: HERE is a post from a few months ago where a staff member here on this site claimed that Cryptic and Microsoft had worked out a deal which would allow both CO and STO to be released for Xbox. He claimed one of the developers at Cryptic told him this. Yet nothing else has happened since then.

in the options there is a choice for you to enable "rumble" of your controller...

enuf said

Graphics will be amazing and customization of your character will be insane if it uses the CO engine.  I really hope it doesn't have the CO instancing though =(  However i hope they make a shardless server for the entire world. The battles wouldd be insane!!

Until we hear more (like the inevitable beta videos on utube), I guess we won't know much except for what the devs tell us.  Hopefully the team working on STO is a little better at making an MMO than those that work on CO.

Originally posted by BishopTx

in the options there is a choice for you to enable "rumble" of your controller...enuf said

Which game are you talking about with this comment? Several games have been discussed during the course of this thread at this point so I'm not sure which game this is a refrence to.

I know CO is designed to allow you to use an Xbox controller... but there is a big difference between being able to play it with a controller and being able to use the whole xbox! All rumors suggest the reason they have failed to get an Xbox version of CO out so far is because of Microsoft and Cryptic (and possibly Atari as well) not being able to agree on the various terms of the release and payment options.

 i have a 360, i wont ever use a 360 to play mmos, mmos are for pc silly devs, people that own consoles and dont buy pcs dont need to play mmos anyway, its not like they know the interwebs is even there without a pc!  consoles are for halo/grand theft auto/sports games, pcs are for mmos and anything else you wanna play thats written as a pc game and not some craptastic console port that has more bugs then a roach motel because it was crappily ported.

Originally posted by junzo316

Until we hear more (like the inevitable beta videos on utube), I guess we won't know much except for what the devs tell us.  Hopefully the team working on STO is a little better at making an MMO than those that work on CO.

Well said.

Because this is Star Trek, I'm very anxious as to how all of this is going to turn out. If another big IP flops in this genre, I think it's safe to say most investors are going to pass on any big IP deals in the near future.

Originally posted by LethalBurst

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Thank God Bioware isn't making TOR console friendly.

Don't be so sure about that. Remember, Bioware = EA now.

 

TOR has been confirmed to be PC only for months.

The hold up is gold version vs silver. Cryptic/Atari want the silver owners to be able to play, while MS wants only gold paying members to get access to MMO's. In this the charge to play the game is well (you guessed it ) higher. This ofcourse hurts the sales of the game for again obvious reasons, but MS won't budge. Simple as that.

Originally posted by chaintm

The hold up is gold version vs silver. Cryptic/Atari want the silver owners to be able to play, while MS wants only gold paying members to get access to MMO's. In this the charge to play the game is well (you guessed it ) higher. This ofcourse hurts the sales of the game for again obvious reasons, but MS won't budge. Simple as that.

Yep, that's microsoft for you. Nickel and Dime folks for everything they can.

Originally posted by chaintm

The hold up is gold version vs silver. Cryptic/Atari want the silver owners to be able to play, while MS wants only gold paying members to get access to MMO's. In this the charge to play the game is well (you guessed it ) higher. This ofcourse hurts the sales of the game for again obvious reasons, but MS won't budge. Simple as that.

Odd that they changed that. Their stance from even before the 360 launched was that silver members could play MMOs. Both Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star allow silver members to play.

Originally posted by Martinmas

Originally posted by chaintm

The hold up is gold version vs silver. Cryptic/Atari want the silver owners to be able to play, while MS wants only gold paying members to get access to MMO's. In this the charge to play the game is well (you guessed it ) higher. This ofcourse hurts the sales of the game for again obvious reasons, but MS won't budge. Simple as that.

 

Odd that they changed that. Their stance from even before the 360 launched was that silver members could play MMOs. Both Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star allow silver members to play.

yup, and probably the reason for the dispute at this point, but as posted by another, greed kills.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I am not sure what you hope for or are asking for but i can tell you there is no magical formula.WOW gets away with what they do because it is pretty much the lowest tech game left of all the mmorpg's.To be able to have a seamless world[there is actually no such thing]you have to have objects rendered as you move along,so distant objects will be of lowest quality.Personally i prefer  zones,it's loaded and over with,albeit most games zones are so large they still need to render at short distances,but you can do a bit more using zones.

I would say personally there is no way it uses a seamless world.The disturbing thing about STO is how the game came about.

It was started 6 years ago,so expect lower end tech.All Cryptic studios did was inherent the the game content,so artwork models and such.What they did is just implement it all into their own cryptic game engine.I think this site should ask some interview questions related to how much original content and how much new content is being implemented into this game.

This game has been implemented in a VERY short time by Cryptic Studios,about 15 months,that is crazy for a giant type game like STO.This tells me it will be using all the original content developed by Perpetual ENT.How good a job they did on the game ,we will have to wait and see however,in light of how they operated their business,VERY sketchy,almost like SGW fiascal,it leads one to think the game is sketchy at best.

If you are a trek fan as i sort of was back in the day,you have to hope and pray that Cryptic devoted a lot of hours in that short time to make this a grand game.

  I don't know if you mean to accuse Cryptic of lying but they stated very clearly nothing of the game they are making is from Perpetual they are building the game from the ground up.  Some art concepts rendered on the CO engine is all you may see of PE.  Having said that though I do worry a bit about some of Cryptics business practices etc lately.  I will be put off (when) they put a cash shop in STO and I have a strong suspision they are going to do that with all of there games and I hope it doesn't come off like some type of "actoin" mmo as theytried to do with CO.

  I liked Star Trek ok, the movies much more than the series so I'm not going out of my way to try to "define" what Star Trek was about like lot's of people seem to like to do but for now I'm just glad it is being developed at a studio that I know can actually make a good steady working game which is not a given in mmo's.  I have faith I will enjoy the game for the time I spend in it but I do worry in the end it isn't going to be something with alot of staying value.

Personally I happen to like CO.  Fun game to play.  Then again I am a casual type gamer now and do not have the hours and hours of play others have to put into a game.

CO is quick and you can level fairly quickly solo and even faster in groups.  Tends to get you through the content really fast.

From what I have seen on the STO trailers and Future Past stuff, space combat looks like it may be more of an Action oriented game.  The ground combat or personal combat looks really wooden at this point.  Hopefully they will be putting some love into that soon.

I do forsee them using the same Shardless instancing that they are currently using in the CO game.  It works well and keeps the populations down in areas without limiting players from being able to access those areas or getting together with friends. 

How / if they are going to do this for the PvP areas I do not know.

My hope is they leave the PvP areas more open.  This may cause some issues in a single shard - multi inctanced game but, I just cannot see how they could do otherwise.  There will be skirmishes that you just cannot have 20k people show up for.  In a CO type of environment it is possible that players from most instances will congregate on a single area if they here that the Klingons are attacking something or somewhere. 

Dunno yet.  There is just not enough information out there to even discuss.  Everything at this point is sheer speculation and really does not bring anything new to the table.

I have a concern about this game.

I see video of combat. Space and ground combat. Please tell me this game is not all combat.

Originally posted by weslubow

I have a concern about this game.

I see video of combat. Space and ground combat. Please tell me this game is not all combat.

 

Probably going to be a 80/20 split on combat vs anything else.  Would not surprise me if there was even larger 90/10 split on it.  You are not going to get a chance to sit through a 30 minute discussion on the merrits of sending a delegation to Epsilon 6 on this one.  All of that has been decided and you will need to go route the Gorns.

Seriously, i think and hope there will be lots of exploration and investigation.  Especially if you are playing a captain of one of the science vessles.  Dunno for sure tho, will have to wait and see.