So, a while ago i got darkfall, created a dwarf,  had a hard time learning the game but had some fun, over time my interest in the game faded a bit and i didn´t launch it for a while,  a couple of hours ago i decided to delete my dwarf and create a new character, why not, i wasn´t playing anyway... so i made a mahirim...  at the moment i´m having quiet some fun as a mahirim, especially since i now know how the game works a bit, and i can relatively fast get some skills up. rerolling got my interest back in the game, so to any bored darkfall player, here´s a suggestion; REROLL :D

regards, 

vlad

I choose Greek Mythology for the OP, for 15$ a month  : what is the name of the task which you have undertaken in a game with the only character diversity being the appearance changing ?

Right click on the image and choose "Save Image As..." for a hint

Originally posted by egotrip

I choose Greek Mythology for the OP, for 15$ a month  : what is the name of the task which you have undertaken in a game with the only character diversity being the appearance changing ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right click on the image and choose "Save Image As..." for a hint

 

BOOOM!

Another zinger by emotrip.

Please better jpg next time though man, your putting next to no effort into these. I always look forward to your Darkfall posts the most. You've got personality, and are clever as hell. As soon as your bros find this thread let the circle jerk commence.

Reroll? Lol. I had to reroll and all mmorpg i played to keep going. In wow, i rerolled after lvl 20 and 1 month after i hit lvl 70, i left because the pvp was ridiculous. I was kind of skilled, but world pvp was dead and i dont play a mmorpg to get the same pvp result as an fps game.

Rerolling in darkfall is only good if you know what you should raise 1st in a line. I mean, if you are a pure pvper, you will only raise pvp skills to be able to compete faster. If you didnt do that with your 1st character, i think you would need to reroll. for example, some newb would raise daggers, after 25 on dagger, a pro come and tell him that daggers is useless adn only good for pvp. The newb reroll and raise 2 hand instead to get a result of a pure pvper the fastest way possible.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Reroll? Lol. I had to reroll and all mmorpg i played to keep going. In wow, i rerolled after lvl 20 and 1 month after i hit lvl 70, i left because the pvp was ridiculous. I was kind of skilled, but world pvp was dead and i dont play a mmorpg to get the same pvp result as an fps game.

Rerolling in darkfall is only good if you know what you should raise 1st in a line. I mean, if you are a pure pvper, you will only raise pvp skills to be able to compete faster. If you didnt do that with your 1st character, i think you would need to reroll. for example, some newb would raise daggers, after 25 on dagger, a pro come and tell him that daggers is useless adn only good for pvp. The newb reroll and raise 2 hand instead to get a result of a pure pvper the fastest way possible.

Or, the reason he was bored is because there were no dwarfs to play with. The order of race popularity are as follows (least to greatest) - Ork <--> Dwarf, Wolf <---> Elf, Human <----> Alfar ( <----> indicates that its possible that those could be switched in order). This could of course change once racial abilities are added. In fact, it was said that wolf was the second most popular race at launch for the hope that 4LR would be added soon. Alfar took the second most popular race slot after when it became apparent that it would be awhile for 4LR to be introduced on top of the the fact that Wolves are huge and people wanted the hit box advantage given by the smaller races.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Reroll? Lol. I had to reroll and all mmorpg i played to keep going. In wow, i rerolled after lvl 20 and 1 month after i hit lvl 70, i left because the pvp was ridiculous. I was kind of skilled, but world pvp was dead and i dont play a mmorpg to get the same pvp result as an fps game.

Rerolling in darkfall is only good if you know what you should raise 1st in a line. I mean, if you are a pure pvper, you will only raise pvp skills to be able to compete faster. If you didnt do that with your 1st character, i think you would need to reroll. for example, some newb would raise daggers, after 25 on dagger, a pro come and tell him that daggers is useless adn only good for pvp. The newb reroll and raise 2 hand instead to get a result of a pure pvper the fastest way possible.

 

Or, the reason he was bored is because there were no dwarfs to play with. The order of race popularity are as follows (least to greatest) - Ork <--> Dwarf, Wolf <---> Elf, Human <----> Alfar ( <----> indicates that its possible that those could be switched in order). This could of course change once racial abilities are added. In fact, it was said that wolf was the second most popular race at launch for the hope that 4LR would be added soon. Alfar took the second most popular race slot after when it became apparent that it would be awhile for 4LR to be introduced on top of the the fact that Wolves are huge and people wanted the hit box advantage given by the smaller races.

About the race popularity, if it would be the case, players that take alfar would reroll most often so i dont think so. Yeah, they are more popular, but not the most popular alignment. I mean with dwarf, you are with humans and elf. So if you are a dwarf and you dont like your starter city because there are not too much dwarf, you can sprint to the human or elf capital and bind there. It can take 20 to 40 minutes to get there and you can even toggle auto run forward and browse on the internet at the same time.(well, thats what i did to bind to my 1st clan city that my clan captured)

Originally posted by egotrip

I choose Greek Mythology for the OP, for 15$ a month  : what is the name of the task which you have undertaken in a game with the only character diversity being the appearance changing ?

I will spell it for you: F R E E D O M  O F  C H O I C E. 

There is quite a lot of skills in Darkfall and you are free to chose and level up any of them. DF is not bad sandbox and it is up to you to make your charactet special. No one forces you to use same skills like your friends or clan mates. Or maybe you are just to afraid to try something different then other people around you ?

With present skill mechanics DF is far more orginal and provides you with much more skill build combinations then any other MMO on the market. There is nothing wrong in having access to all skills in the game, it is up to you to chose which to chose in next fight.

I feel bad for you if you lack imagination to create your character by your own and desperately need guidelines and boundaries to not get lost.

If anything complain about lack of combat balance ( which is going to be addressed in few weeks ) and some bugged or non factor spells like mana shield, mana drain, loads of debuffs etc. ( hopefully addressed sooner then later ). The only group of skills which really need skill cap are crafting skills which is good for the game economy and players interactions. 

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by egotrip

I choose Greek Mythology for the OP, for 15$ a month  : what is the name of the task which you have undertaken in a game with the only character diversity being the appearance changing ?

I will spell it for you: F R E E D O M  O F  C H O I C E. 

There is quite a lot of skills in Darkfall and you are free to chose and level up any of them. DF is not bad sandbox and it is up to you to make your charactet special. No one forces you to use same skills like your friends or clan mates. Or maybe you are just to afraid to try something different then other people around you ?

With present skill mechanics DF is far more orginal and provides you with much more skill build combinations then any other MMO on the market. There is nothing wrong in having access to all skills in the game, it is up to you to chose which to chose in next fight.

I feel bad for you if you lack imagination to create your character by your own and desperately need guidelines and boundaries to not get lost.

If anything complain about lack of combat balance ( which is going to be addressed in few weeks ) and some bugged or non factor spells like mana shield, mana drain, loads of debuffs etc. ( hopefully addressed sooner then later ). The only group of skills which really need skill cap are crafting skills which is good for the game economy and players interactions. 

 

And let me point out to you that no matter how many times you re-roll your toon in a game with the mechanics that Darkfall has currently you'll always and i repeat always end up with the same buffer / healer / tank / nuker / archer type of character character.

Does a person that wants to be only a crafter do this without fighting a single battle? Nope the game simply does not support it, a crafter must not only pick up the above mentioned combat skills in order to make himself  a viable character and practise crafting in the time between pvp-siege-pk ; but on top of that he must join a clan to do so ; a solo-crafter-only character is simply not viable in a game like Darkfall.

Healer / buffer only? Let me put it this way ; you have better chances winning the lottery ticket AND striking oil under your house in the same day rather than making a viable toon that has the sole purpose of buffing / healing other toons without having to fight a single fight in a game like Darkfall.

I only gave you 2 simple examples (the list just goes on) as to why i believe that despite seemingly complex and elaborate skill tree Darkfall possesses and supposedly allowing great character diversity everybody ends up having the same character , with the same skills not because of "lack of imagination" as you mentioned but because the current game mechanics don't support the viability of a different type of character.

And that brings me back to what i said to the OP about re-rolling a character in Darkfall to which the answer is:  A Sisyphean task

No matter how many times you re-roll your character you'll always end up having the same one as before with the only exception being that the race and thus the appearance of him changes. Do you get the point i am trying to make now or must i find a nice picture with some zebras in it for you?

Originally posted by egotrip

And let me point out to you that no matter how many times you re-roll your toon in a game with the mechanics that Darkfall has currently you'll always and i repeat always end up with the same buffer / healer / tank / nuker / archer type of character character.

Does a person that wants to be only a crafter do this without fighting a single battle? Nope the game simply does not support it, a crafter must not only pick up the above mentioned combat skills in order to make himself  a viable character and practise crafting in the time between pvp-siege-pk ; but on top of that he must join a clan to do so ; a solo-crafter-only character is simply not viable in a game like Darkfall.

Healer / buffer only? Let me put it this way ; you have better chances winning the lottery ticket AND striking oil under your house in the same day rather than making a viable toon that has the sole purpose of buffing / healing other toons without having to fight a single fight in a game like Darkfall.

I only gave you 2 simple examples (the list just goes on) as to why i believe that despite seemingly complex and elaborate skill tree Darkfall possesses and supposedly allowing great character diversity everybody ends up having the same character , with the same skills not because of "lack of imagination" as you mentioned but because the current game mechanics don't support the viability of a different type of character.

And that brings me back to what i said to the OP about re-rolling a character in Darkfall to which the answer is:  A Sisyphean task

No matter how many times you re-roll your character you'll always end up having the same one as before with the only exception being that the race and thus the appearance of him changes. Do you get the point i am trying to make now or must i find a nice picture with some zebras in it for you?

Racial specialization is one of the next changes in a couple weeks.

I don't think that's enough though. In my experience a skill cap can do wonders to add uniqueness to a character. Everyone would still be able to do many different things, just not everything at once....eventually.
 

Never was too sure why the devs don't wanna go that way.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by egotrip

And let me point out to you that no matter how many times you re-roll your toon in a game with the mechanics that Darkfall has currently you'll always and i repeat always end up with the same buffer / healer / tank / nuker / archer type of character character.

Does a person that wants to be only a crafter do this without fighting a single battle? Nope the game simply does not support it, a crafter must not only pick up the above mentioned combat skills in order to make himself  a viable character and practise crafting in the time between pvp-siege-pk ; but on top of that he must join a clan to do so ; a solo-crafter-only character is simply not viable in a game like Darkfall.

Healer / buffer only? Let me put it this way ; you have better chances winning the lottery ticket AND striking oil under your house in the same day rather than making a viable toon that has the sole purpose of buffing / healing other toons without having to fight a single fight in a game like Darkfall.

I only gave you 2 simple examples (the list just goes on) as to why i believe that despite seemingly complex and elaborate skill tree Darkfall possesses and supposedly allowing great character diversity everybody ends up having the same character , with the same skills not because of "lack of imagination" as you mentioned but because the current game mechanics don't support the viability of a different type of character.

And that brings me back to what i said to the OP about re-rolling a character in Darkfall to which the answer is:  A Sisyphean task

No matter how many times you re-roll your character you'll always end up having the same one as before with the only exception being that the race and thus the appearance of him changes. Do you get the point i am trying to make now or must i find a nice picture with some zebras in it for you?

Racial specialization is one of the next changes in a couple weeks.

I don't think that's enough though. In my experience a skill cap can do wonders to add uniqueness to a character. Everyone would still be able to do many different things, just not everything at once....eventually.
 

Never was too sure why the devs don't wanna go that way.

Its simple, because without balance it doesn't make diversity or viability. Any diversity or viability is simply an illusion the player base creates. All it does is create players who suck because of what they chose to play instead of how good they actually are. With the specialization system getting more flushed out in the expac, we get the "prestige class" they were talking about prior to launch without cutting into the rest of the game design.

I talked about it before, they are going for balance based on situation rather than rock, paper, scissors. Now, all AV has to in addition to the no cycle nuke spam and specialization system is balance out combat healing, buffs, and debuffs to make them as viable as dealing damage. With that change, people will get what they want and feel they need (see egotrip) without limiting people's. As I've said before, you can only use 10-20 skills in combat effectively, you don't need to physically limit people to get diversity.

Originally posted by xpiher

 

Its simple, because without balance it doesn't make diversity or viability. Any diversity or viability is simply an illusion the player base creates. All it does is create players who suck because of what they chose to play instead of how good they actually are. With the specialization system getting more flushed out in the expac, we get the "prestige class" they were talking about prior to launch without cutting into the rest of the game design.

I talked about it before, they are going for balance based on situation rather than rock, paper, scissors. Now, all AV has to in addition to the no cycle nuke spam and specialization system is balance out combat healing, buffs, and debuffs to make them as viable as dealing damage. With that change, people will get what they want and feel they need (see egotrip) without limiting people's. As I've said before, you can only use 10-20 skills in combat effectively, you don't need to physically limit people to get diversity.

That explains a lot thanks. Stopped watching DF about a month or so after Euro launch. So I still have some catchin up to do.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by xpiher

 

Its simple, because without balance it doesn't make diversity or viability. Any diversity or viability is simply an illusion the player base creates. All it does is create players who suck because of what they chose to play instead of how good they actually are. With the specialization system getting more flushed out in the expac, we get the "prestige class" they were talking about prior to launch without cutting into the rest of the game design.

I talked about it before, they are going for balance based on situation rather than rock, paper, scissors. Now, all AV has to in addition to the no cycle nuke spam and specialization system is balance out combat healing, buffs, and debuffs to make them as viable as dealing damage. With that change, people will get what they want and feel they need (see egotrip) without limiting people's. As I've said before, you can only use 10-20 skills in combat effectively, you don't need to physically limit people to get diversity.

That explains a lot thanks. Stopped watching DF about a month or so after Euro launch. So I still have some catchin up to do.

Yea, most people don't understand that min-maxing ruins any chance of viable diversity in a game that isn't balanced correctly. What I mean by viable diversity is that each "play style" is just as effective as the next play style. Currently darkfall does not have viable diversity because damage and self healing is the only way to go. However, with a very few changes to how some skills work, the issue can easily be fixed. 

Dose achieving viable diversity mean the game is perfectly balanced? No, because that's impossible due to various combinations that can make something OP. However, by not "physically" limiting people's ability to chose what skills they have you minimize the impact of imbalance to something that isn't really an issue. Not only that, you also keep the game player skill based rather than build or counter builds set ups. This is my opinion on the whole topic. While I do love the "builds" meta game that come from a skill cap, I don't think it should be used in a game with only 1 character and is PvP focused.

True enough.

My experiences in EVE with all of the FOTM ships/setups, and the impending nerf/buff that would always follow definitely backs what your saying up.

You also remind me of another thing I love about DF. One character only. I hate all the alt crapola.

Originally posted by egotrip

And let me point out to you that no matter how many times you re-roll your toon in a game with the mechanics that Darkfall has currently you'll always and i repeat always end up with the same buffer / healer / tank / nuker / archer type of character character.

I got your Sisyphean task picture straight away. I simply don't agree with what you said. Your examples with pure crafter, healer buffer are from flawed MMO game mechanics which follows archetypes of fighter, ranger and mage. In order to balance it out you need to implement crowd control: stuns, snears, knockbacks, fears etc to give people a chance to survive in a situation in which their class or build is in disadvantage. It starts the whole problem with lack of control over your character while under one of those effects obvious frustration of players. Take a look at WoW or WAR, one have resistance, another lately gave up stuns for snears in order to give back a mirrage of control over character while under crowd control effects. Look at problems with arteficial roles: I am a tank I can't dps, I am a healer I can't do any damage etc. Problems created by flawed in the core system which often are solved with another artificial solutions.

You probably like that mechanics, clear roles which give you sense of being different. For me it is a lie, you are not different from any other healer or a tank whatever your role/class is.

I like how dynamic and situational is combat in DF. You don't charge mindlessly with a sword drawn against an archer or a nuker in the distance. You adjust yourself to different situations and react accordingly. It is much more player skill oriented and demands from you fast reaction, thinking and aiming. Believe me or not I have seen people who were or are doing well as just an archer or a mage. The second is obviously OP right now, but is worked on. Another thing is that they put themselves in disadvantage if they don't switch to melee in melee range against a good melee user and that's the way it should work.

Sure it has it own problems with balance and equal support for various play styles and I hope they will iron them out. Am I completely pleased how doesn't it work in DF ? Hell no, but after DF I won't sit again to any other main stream MMO with the game mechanics ( classes, auto-targetting, crowd control, stat based dodge ) which unfortunetly is a standard now.

When it comes to your crafter argument. It is about risk management and your personal choice. In a clan you have easier life. In general a clan often provides you with access more resources and some rare ingredients which would be hard to get by yourself. You produce more items so you skill up faster then by being alone, but in return clan mates often expect cheap or even free gear. Furthermore clan gathering parties offer more protection if you don't feel like a fighter type.

You can be an independed crafter and I have seen quite a lot of independed crafters in DF. somehow they were able to find their niche on the market and compete with the big boys, I used to buy from them quite a lot until I joined a clan. However you put yourself in disadvantage if your work by your own. You don't see a self employed man - in real life - able to compete with a huge corporation.

If you expect social, economical "fairness" and artificial rules to make your unreasonable expectations to come true, DF indeed is not for you. It is ruthless as real world and some of you can't really cope with it. Agon feels really mediaval with a feudal like links between people and law and order far behind the modern Wester World justice system.

Your whole argument is quite flawed with that "buffer / healer / tank / nuker / archer type" thing. Sure most people are the mix of close combat, ranged skills with some support because they CAN and such a solution gives them more options in the world without crowd control.

Read what Xpiher wrote about situational balance, he got it quite right. Mini-maxers always try to copy "the best build" and hopefully Aventurine will manage to support diversity in incoming expansion and patches.

Even now DF supports more possible builds then any other MMO on the market, like it or not. A a lot of them are less competitive then others, some are plainly ridiculous and stupid. But is is like arguing that in WoW you have few classes less because some of them are not as competitive as others.