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10/28/09 4:07:23 PM#176
Originally posted by dterry Just dont meet a lot of any dead players online or the foums, perhaps every country should decide what is appropriate and not for their own people huh? Kool, so they just want to be left alone to oppress their people? Or in the case of Tibet they just want to be left alone to oppress someone else's people? -At least you are in good company... Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini... they all felt the same way. But we'll let you negotiate for us... "Peace in our time" and all that, right? so what country of dead students should be made King of gaming...or do we just do a hitler thing and allow a war to start over online gaming practices? surely such a reason for war would be new since we already lost milions of people for other reasons. And who would support such a war over gaming?? |
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10/28/09 4:09:35 PM#177
Originally posted by Caleveira Your choice is NOT limited. You can play the game, or you can not play the game. That is the choice.
It is limiting your choices. By your rationale Jim Crow laws should be considered legitimate. In my country it is even ilegal for a restaurant to require its diners to wear a formal jacket as this would imply discrimination against the poor. Ofc different countries have different standards but that is the point of this thread. The Chinese do impose morality standards upon their citizens despite having a nominally secular government. This is a discrimination issue as it implies infringing on a customers freedom to express through his virtual persona, not because of technical considerations or reasonable standards of respect towards other players.
No, Jim Crow laws are illegitimate for the same reason a law forbidding restaurants to require jacket, or a law forbidding discrimination, are illegitimate. They both usurp the rights of the owner. They both seek to transfer control of something that is already owned by someone, to someone else. This is actual oppression. |
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10/28/09 4:12:20 PM#178
Originally posted by rothbard (...) a law forbidding discrimination, are illegitimate. (...)
thats cute.
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10/28/09 4:15:23 PM#179
Originally posted by Toquio3
thats cute. yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. |
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Kyleran
 Jovian
Joined: 9/13/06
A simple truth-"What people want and what is good for an mmo is not always the same thing"-mrw0lf |
10/28/09 4:18:17 PM#180
Originally posted by rothbard
thats cute. yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. So what you're saying is, discrimination is a good thing. I understand now. Should be interesting to see how this law gets enforced. |
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10/28/09 4:18:22 PM#181
Originally posted by rothbard
thats cute. yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is.
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10/28/09 4:21:06 PM#182
Originally posted by Toquio3 yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. so is it right for one county or nation to tell another how to operater their gaming industeries? |
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10/28/09 4:21:40 PM#183
why they think the genre is called Many Men Online Roleplaying Girls for a reason silly china |
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10/28/09 4:22:01 PM#184
Originally posted by Caleveira
one could say the same thing about most liberal groups also...you are free to think...as long as you think like us. Some countries believe in honor kills as being justified. Is it wrong...only if you believe mankind has an innate right to life...but if you believe you only has the rights you can defend then no. Morality is subject to your personal views there is no universal morality. Religion, politics, philosophy are all personal views that you accept and either apply or not. To believe at any time that one is better than another just shows your own ignorance or your egoism at you being the ultimate provider of morality to the world. Now forcing your beliefs on another is in my belief wrong unless your are defending your self from attack, but I believe that it is wrong to ever tell another they can not express their beliefs in the very least in a verbal or written form. This way other have the ability to accept or reject your ideas. Now if you want to express that all *blanks* should be killed, beaten, harmed, etcs. then yes it is in the societies best interest to stop these people, but one should never take the moral high ground that they can stop someone from expressing in a non-violent way their opinions. Usually when you are on the high ground you are the first to fall when the new morality appears. |
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10/28/09 4:23:47 PM#185
Originally posted by seabeast yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. so is it right for one county or nation to tell another how to operater their gaming industeries?
One side note that is funny...now science and not racism or culturalism is telling schools that blacks,whites, males, and females should be schooled separately because they all learn better in different ways. |
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10/28/09 4:23:57 PM#186
Doh.
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10/28/09 4:24:17 PM#187
Originally posted by seabeast
No, not that. I believe in countries sorting their own act, like my country did with its dictator in 1974. But the chinese are sheep. they are weak and let everyone stomp them. the latest oppressor is their own government. in the past we had the mongols, the emperors, hell, even japan had the balls to try an invasion once.
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10/28/09 4:24:23 PM#188
Originally posted by Toquio3 yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. A law forbidding discrimination would mean you couldnt make men go to mens toilets and women go to womens toilets. It also wouldnt be legal to only have services for ppl over 60yrs of age.These are just a few examples of accepted forms of discriminating. Laws are more precise then just 'its illegal to discriminate' for that reason. You need to read more carefully.
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10/28/09 4:25:50 PM#189
Originally posted by Horusra and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. so is it right for one county or nation to tell another how to operater their gaming industeries?
One side note that is funny...now science and not racism or culturalism is telling schools that blacks,whites, males, and females should be schooled separately because they all learn better in different ways.
so answer the question, which group of people should tell other countries how to operate? |
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10/28/09 4:27:04 PM#190
Originally posted by rothbard
It is limiting your choices. By your rationale Jim Crow laws should be considered legitimate. In my country it is even ilegal for a restaurant to require its diners to wear a formal jacket as this would imply discrimination against the poor. Ofc different countries have different standards but that is the point of this thread. The Chinese do impose morality standards upon their citizens despite having a nominally secular government. This is a discrimination issue as it implies infringing on a customers freedom to express through his virtual persona, not because of technical considerations or reasonable standards of respect towards other players.
No, Jim Crow laws are illegitimate for the same reason a law forbidding restaurants to require jacket, or a law forbidding discrimination, are illegitimate. They both usurp the rights of the owner. They both seek to transfer control of something that is already owned by someone, to someone else. This is actual oppression. Your rationale would give a bussiness owner the prerogative of refusing service to anyone they might dislike, or to otherwise limit the use of their facilities. This is what Jim Crow laws were meant to accomplish. Once you make a public offer of your services (such as an "open" sign) you have an obligation not to refuse service without legitimate reasons. Your view that ownership rights are more important than basic human civility is shared by no country or society in the world, except perhaps by islamic regimes which enforce Dhimmi status upon religious minorities and foreigners. Everyone has the right to demand any services they can pay for as long as it is within law and reason. As a lawyer i cant legally refuse service to someone on the grounds that theyre libertarians for instance... Just to make things clear... |
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10/28/09 4:29:42 PM#191
Originally posted by Toquio3 yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is It's a false choice to assume that there must be either forced segregation or forced integration. You totally neglect the middle which is voluntary association. If black/white/purple people are not met by 'no blacks/whites/purples' signs at restaurants than it is a good thing, so long as that is what the restauranteur has freely chosen. On the other hand if someone is holding a gun to his head and forcing him to allow anyone that comes, even if we would choose not to, for whatever reason, then it is wrong. |
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10/28/09 4:30:19 PM#192
Originally posted by someforumguy yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. A law forbidding discrimination would mean you couldnt make men go to mens toilets and women go to womens toilets. It also wouldnt be legal to only have services for ppl over 60yrs of age.These are just a few examples of accepted forms of discriminating. Laws are more precise then just 'its illegal to discriminate' for that reason. You need to read more carefully.
Different societies have freed themselves of prejudice at different rates, unisex restrooms are quite common in Europe. Just to make things clear... |
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10/28/09 4:34:27 PM#193
Originally posted by Horusra and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. so is it right for one county or nation to tell another how to operater their gaming industeries?
One side note that is funny...now science and not racism or culturalism is telling schools that blacks,whites, males, and females should be schooled separately because they all learn better in different ways.
Been reading up on Watson are you? That is not true, no study has proven a segregated environnment makes for better learning and there are quite a few on the ill effects segregation may later have on social interaction. Just to make things clear... |
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10/28/09 4:35:14 PM#194
Originally posted by Caleveira and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. A law forbidding discrimination would mean you couldnt make men go to mens toilets and women go to womens toilets. It also wouldnt be legal to only have services for ppl over 60yrs of age.These are just a few examples of accepted forms of discriminating. Laws are more precise then just 'its illegal to discriminate' for that reason. You need to read more carefully.
Different societies have freed themselves of prejudice at different rates, unisex restrooms are quite common in Europe.
Well, let me put it simple then. Chose apples over oranges and you discriminate. |
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10/28/09 4:40:42 PM#195
Originally posted by rothbard yes, and true. Forced discrimination is just as evil as forced nondiscrimination. Discrimination is a fact of acting individuals. Every single action you perform, no matter how small, implies a degree of discrimination. There is always something you could of done instead. You are always discriminating. and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is It's a false choice to assume that there must be either forced segregation or forced integration. You totally neglect the middle which is voluntary association. If black/white/purple people are not met by 'no blacks/whites/purples' signs at restaurants than it is a good thing, so long as that is what the restauranteur has freely chosen. On the other hand if someone is holding a gun to his head and forcing him to allow anyone that comes, even if we would choose not to, for whatever reason, then it is wrong. We are discussing public life, which MMOs are a part of. Enacting antidiscrimination laws is forcing no one. Social segregation is still quite common. Just to make things clear... |
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10/28/09 4:42:53 PM#196
Whats the point of this? |
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10/28/09 4:43:09 PM#197
Originally posted by someforumguy and yet, black people now have the right to go to the same schools as white people, and are not stopped at 'no blacks' signs in restaurants. this is not evil. the opposite is. A law forbidding discrimination would mean you couldnt make men go to mens toilets and women go to womens toilets. It also wouldnt be legal to only have services for ppl over 60yrs of age.These are just a few examples of accepted forms of discriminating. Laws are more precise then just 'its illegal to discriminate' for that reason. You need to read more carefully.
Different societies have freed themselves of prejudice at different rates, unisex restrooms are quite common in Europe.
Well, let me put it simple then. Chose apples over oranges and you discriminate.
Yea, cuz we all know reductio ad absurdum makes for a sound argument. Just to make things clear... |
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10/28/09 4:43:39 PM#198
Has anyone played that game? Is it any good? This forum is a troll connoisseur's wet dream. |
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10/28/09 4:43:44 PM#199
Originally posted by tro44_1
well, this thread hasnt been locked yet, so we must be doing something right =D
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10/28/09 4:45:17 PM#200
No one has started just insulting another. |
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