Originally posted by Sabiancym

So how would guys react if you witnessed this?

 

Would you call the police asap?  Would you intervene and try to save the girl?  Would you just walk away?

 

I know I would definately find a way to call the police, but I can't say that I would intervene to try and stop it.  The type of people who would do this type of thing are more than likely the same type of people who would have no problem severely beating, if not killing someone who got in their way. 

 

If I was there, I probably would have quietly ducked away and called the police.  Intervening could get myself and the girl in even more trouble.

I would have said "this is wrong and needs to be stopped now.  I need three people to come with me to stop the rape and one person to call 911."

Protecting the girl would be first priority, preventing further injuries to anyone else would be the second priority.

I would then most likely have to use ever ounce of self control that I ever had to keep myself from beating the rapist into a bloody pulp.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Sabiancym

So how would guys react if you witnessed this?

 

Would you call the police asap?  Would you intervene and try to save the girl?  Would you just walk away?

 

I know I would definately find a way to call the police, but I can't say that I would intervene to try and stop it.  The type of people who would do this type of thing are more than likely the same type of people who would have no problem severely beating, if not killing someone who got in their way. 

 

If I was there, I probably would have quietly ducked away and called the police.  Intervening could get myself and the girl in even more trouble.

 

I would have said "this is wrong and needs to be stopped now.  I need three people to come with me to stop the rape and one person to call 911."

Protecting the girl would be first priority, preventing further injuries to anyone else would be the second priority.

I would then most likely have to use ever ounce of self control that I ever had to keep myself from beating the rapist into a bloody pulp.

I weigh 120 pounds and could get my ass kicked by a 5th grade girl... But ida gladly walked over there with ya.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

 

this shit isn't anything new though. Back in the sixties there was a woman raped and killed over a four hour period in New York while the whole neighborhood watched. It's a deer in headlights kind of thing. You never expect shit like this to happen around you. Then when it does, you expect someone, anyone to do something despite the fact that it never crosses your own mind to do something. Humans are part sheep and, sadly, when shit goes down we look for the first boarder collie to follow.

 

Kitty Genovese. The Bystander Effect, which I assume nobody in this thread read about because they're still shoutting to kill the bystanders, was originally called the 'Kitty Genovese effect'. Research into the phenomenon (which, again, affects all of us, even you, reading this - although research shows that knowing about the bystander effect lessens its effects) was done due to that exact situation.

 

See you think that I would stand and do nothing.   I am not like that at all.  Anyone that knows me knows I will get involved - even at my own peril.   I have done it in the past.    Want to know how bad I am?   I once tackled a shop lifter and I was standing in line in another checkout.  The girl said," hey someone stop that guy! "  He had grabbed a carton of cigs and then made a dash for the door.  I ran past this one guy and literally dove and tackled the guy to the floor.    Don't belive me..ask my friend who was there that day(can give you his name and number and you can ask him yourself - if you must).    LOL!   He freaked out.  Said I was one crazy bitch.   Then again I grew up with four brothers and all of them would do the same.   When our house caught on fire one christmas - we actaully ran in and put the fire out because the stupid fire department failed to do it.   We went in and grabbed extinguishers and put the fire out.   We were not about to let our house burn down.   Our folks were at work and we had just got home from school when a neighbor yelled that our house was on fire.   He said that the fire department was there all ready.    We ran to the house and sure enough it was on fire.  Fire department was standing there with their thumbs up their arse.   We said, put out the fire!   The one guy looked at us like....to late.   He shrugged.   So we pushed him out of the way and did it ourselves.   It was how we were brought up.   So do not think you know me.   Do not think I would not interfere.    You would be quite mistaken.

Although I don't doubt some people would interfere, and I do not doubt you would, this is not a prime example of the bystander effect. That said, I never claimed to know you or anything, and I did not mean to offend. I just said it like I did because by far most people when reading about the bystander effect think 'that'd NEVER happen to me!'.

Praetor, I don't think you offende anyone.  I have no doubt that a large percentage of people really WOULD stand around and watch out of fear/ apathy etc.

Human nature. What can you do?

Originally posted by Forumfall

Human nature. What can you do?

What can you do?

You can strive to be a better person... to not let fear or laziness keep you from doing the right thing.

"It's just human nature" sounds an awful lot like the excuses I hear every day from young people for their own selfishness.

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Originally posted by Enkindu

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Actually, it also requires good people to inadvertantly do the wrong things. Like the guy that wants to make rape punishable by death. He has no idea that this would just encourage rapist to kill their victims, thus often eliminating the one witness to a capital offense.

Good intentions pave the road to hell my friends.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Originally posted by Enkindu

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

 

Actually, it also requires good people to inadvertantly do the wrong things. Like the guy that wants to make rape punishable by death. He has no idea that this would just encourage rapist to kill their victims, thus often eliminating the one witness to a capital offense.

Good intentions pave the road to hell my friends.

Sure cuts down on repeat offenders.  Maybe instead of death they could just have genitalia surgically removed.
 

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Zindaihas

See my post on evil on this thread.  Post #38.

 

To which you can then scroll down to read my refutal.

There is actually a term to describe your feeling regarding the subject, it's called Moral Absolutism.

 

You're right, moral relativism rules the day.  I'm on the side of the people who stood there and watched the girl get raped repeatedly and beaten to a pulp.  And if you judge me for my position, you sir, are worse than Hitler.  Who in all reality was a pretty decent guy.

For the record, your post didn't even address my post and wasn't worth responding to.  I posted an incident that can be described in no other term besides "evil" and you went off on some tagent, "evil is subjective".  You didn't express any horror at the event.  I cringe every time I read that story.  You seem to me to be morally vacant.

Your example of bullfighting isn't even in the same category with burning a child in an oven.  You blur the lines between the two, I see a clear cut difference.  And for the record, I am against bull fighting too.  I view it as being animal cruelty.  It is not evil.  It doesn't even come close to murdering a young child.  And it doesn't rise the to level of gang raping a 15-year old.  It doesn't even approach watching the rape and doing nothing about it.

Call it moral absolutism if you want to.  I'll even agree with you.  Yes there are things in life that are absolutely evil.

It's your kind of thinking that's going to allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.  You'd rather try George Bush for freeing millions of Iraqis than prevent Iran from getting nukes.

If we had more Winston Churchills in the world and fewer Neville Chamberlains, we'd have fewer genocidal wars.

Your post can only be describe as nonsense.

My example of bullfighting isn't even in the same category? oh so there are categories too?

Evil isn't set in stone. There is no list which we can check to see what is evil and what is not, and because there is no absolute standard for evil it becomes objective. Who gets to decide what is truly evil? You? please.

You think two religious nuts who mistake an innocent child for lucifer and kill it to be far worse than a tradition which kills bulls not because they convinced themself they are destroying evil, but just for the fun of it. I consider the killing of the bull to be much worse when comparing them because of the motivation behind it. The people who killed the child were delusional, deluded that they were not killing a 4 year old, but the devil itself, possibly even mentally ill.

We have two different opinions here. You consider the killing of the child to be more evil, I consider the bull fighting to be more evil. Who is wrong? Nobody, because there is no absolute standard for evil. There is nothing we can check that says this is evil or not, or that something is more evil.

It's my kind of thinking that's going to aquire nuclear weapons? No it doesn't, what loops of logic did you had to jump through to come to that ridiculous conclussion?

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

 

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

You make this statement knowing NOTHING about Teala and what she does in her community.
 

Also this statement is ridiculous.. Anyone that participates in or stands around and watches a gang rape should be shot.  That's a pretty straightforward situation.

That article tells us next to nothing about the situation.  It may sound like its so simple and straightforward but there's a reason why we don't put 15 year olds in charge of jack squat.  They're irresponsible and immature and are generally known for not doing anything right without adult supervision.

People get so worked up about situations they know next to nothing about and then they beat their chest and talk about what they would do in that situation.  If there was a shred of truth to that we wouldn't need cops and judges.  Everybody would just do the right thing all the time and everything would resolve itself.  Some people just need to get out and experience the world a little bit before they open their mouths.

I agree with Chieftan to some extend. It's very easy to say what you would have done in such a situation when you haven't actually been there.

Originally posted by Gameloading
 

Your post can only be describe as nonsense.

My example of bullfighting isn't even in the same category? oh so there are categories too?

Evil isn't set in stone. There is no list which we can check to see what is evil and what is not, and because there is no absolute standard for evil it becomes objective. Who gets to decide what is truly evil? You? please.

You think two religious nuts who mistake an innocent child for lucifer and kill it to be far worse than a tradition which kills bulls not because they convinced themself they are destroying evil, but just for the fun of it. I consider the killing of the bull to be much worse when comparing them because of the motivation behind it. The people who killed the child were delusional, deluded that they were not killing a 4 year old, but the devil itself, possibly even mentally ill.

We have two different opinions here. You consider the killing of the child to be more evil, I consider to be the bull fighting more evil. Who is wrong? Nobody, because there is no absolute standard for evil. There is nothing we can check that says this is evil or not, or that something is more evil.

It's my kind of thinking that's going to aquire nuclear weapons? No it doesn't, what loops of logic did you had to jump through to come to that ridiculous conclussion?

Hang on a second here, I can see where you're coming from with this. You don't consider the murder of the child as evil as the wilful slaughter of bulls for fun because of the motivation behind killing the child - the men involved were genuinely convinced it was lucifer and probably mentally ill. Perhaps this is more of a tragedy than an evil act yes?

However what I have a problem with is in the red, are you still referring to this particular case or the murdering of children in general?

Originally posted by Enkindu

Maybe instead of death they could just have genitalia surgically removed.

Uh, no. The key word would be forcibly, not surgically.

Originally posted by Bigdavo

Originally posted by Gameloading
 

Your post can only be describe as nonsense.

My example of bullfighting isn't even in the same category? oh so there are categories too?

Evil isn't set in stone. There is no list which we can check to see what is evil and what is not, and because there is no absolute standard for evil it becomes objective. Who gets to decide what is truly evil? You? please.

You think two religious nuts who mistake an innocent child for lucifer and kill it to be far worse than a tradition which kills bulls not because they convinced themself they are destroying evil, but just for the fun of it. I consider the killing of the bull to be much worse when comparing them because of the motivation behind it. The people who killed the child were delusional, deluded that they were not killing a 4 year old, but the devil itself, possibly even mentally ill.

We have two different opinions here. You consider the killing of the child to be more evil, I consider to be the bull fighting more evil. Who is wrong? Nobody, because there is no absolute standard for evil. There is nothing we can check that says this is evil or not, or that something is more evil.

It's my kind of thinking that's going to aquire nuclear weapons? No it doesn't, what loops of logic did you had to jump through to come to that ridiculous conclussion?

 

Hang on a second here, I can see where you're coming from with this. You don't consider the murder of the child as evil as the wilful slaughter of bulls for fun because of the motivation behind killing the child - the men involved were genuinely convinced it was lucifer and probably mentally ill. Perhaps this is more of a tragedy than an evil act yes?

However what I have a problem with is in the red, are you still referring to this particular case or the murdering of children in general?

I'm refering to that particular case.

I think the child burning was indeed more of a tragedy.

This thread should prove why there was no action taken to help this girl. All the moral relativity and excuses. Same reason I have to lock my doors now, when my parents didn't years ago. People make up there own morals and the rest have to pay the price.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Sabiancym

So how would guys react if you witnessed this?

 

Would you call the police asap?  Would you intervene and try to save the girl?  Would you just walk away?

 

I know I would definately find a way to call the police, but I can't say that I would intervene to try and stop it.  The type of people who would do this type of thing are more than likely the same type of people who would have no problem severely beating, if not killing someone who got in their way. 

 

If I was there, I probably would have quietly ducked away and called the police.  Intervening could get myself and the girl in even more trouble.

 

I would have said "this is wrong and needs to be stopped now.  I need three people to come with me to stop the rape and one person to call 911."

Protecting the girl would be first priority, preventing further injuries to anyone else would be the second priority.

I would then most likely have to use ever ounce of self control that I ever had to keep myself from beating the rapist into a bloody pulp.

 

I weigh 120 pounds and could get my ass kicked by a 5th grade girl... But ida gladly walked over there with ya.

I am a 5ft4 110lb female and there is no way in hell anyone would have been able to stop me from grabbing the nearest fire extinguisher and freezing those jackasses balls off. This was at a  Homecoming dance? Where the hell were the chaperones?
 

I too would have yelled for someone to call the f*ing cops, but I would have intervened for sure in the meantime... I have actually had to make frosty the snowman out of more than one guy as it is. Lets see them try to use that tool after that.

If this had been in a parkinglot, I would have found the nearest guys I could get my hands on, open my trunk and start passing out baseball bats telling them to go for the knees. Takes 17 lbs of pressure to break a knee. Now the straight jacket in my trunk would be used on whoever thought of the idea to pull this crap in the first place...

 I do not believe in " bystanders" if you sit back and let something happen and do nothing to stop it, you might as well have commited the crime yourself.

Originally posted by Gameloading

I agree with Chieftan to some extend. It's very easy to say what you would have done in such a situation when you haven't actually been there.

The thing is, some of us HAVE been in situations and HAVE reacted to them. Bartending in college I have had to deal with more than I ever thought I could handle. Gun to a kids head in the parkinglot  with a whack job making him plead for his life while I talk him down.. stalkers, guy pulling a knife on me, guy coming into the club with a gun threatening to shoot everyone .. yup all there.  You should have seen the crap I had to deal with while working in the ER at Parkland . Dallas is hardcore gang and cartel territory, not to mention we treated all of the prisoners from the area as well... you have no idea what some of us have actually had to " handle" in our lives. You make a choice how you want to live. You are either a coward or you are not. Simple as that. I could think of a few " choice words" but I will refrain.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

 

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

You make this statement knowing NOTHING about Teala and what she does in her community.
 

Also this statement is ridiculous.. Anyone that participates in or stands around and watches a gang rape should be shot.  That's a pretty straightforward situation.

That article tells us next to nothing about the situation.  It may sound like its so simple and straightforward but there's a reason why we don't put 15 year olds in charge of jack squat.  They're irresponsible and immature and are generally known for not doing anything right without adult supervision.

People get so worked up about situations they know next to nothing about and then they beat their chest and talk about what they would do in that situation.  If there was a shred of truth to that we wouldn't need cops and judges.  Everybody would just do the right thing all the time and everything would resolve itself.  Some people just need to get out and experience the world a little bit before they open their mouths.

 

Knowing that Teala was an Exotic Dancer, I am sure she has had to " fend  for herself" as well.  Some of us have expieranced brutal situations first hand and cannot understand how others could just sit their with their heads up their asses while something like this happens.  I WAS violently raped when I was 13 by a 24 yr old adult, and yes because I fought I was hurt more, but my fighting stopped him from what he was doing at the time.  Some of us know very well how we would react in a situation.Some of us have expieranced more of life than we ever wanted to. Some of us know what we can and cannot live with. It is a choice you make on how you live your life.
 

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

 

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

You make this statement knowing NOTHING about Teala and what she does in her community.
 

Also this statement is ridiculous.. Anyone that participates in or stands around and watches a gang rape should be shot.  That's a pretty straightforward situation.

That article tells us next to nothing about the situation.  It may sound like its so simple and straightforward but there's a reason why we don't put 15 year olds in charge of jack squat.  They're irresponsible and immature and are generally known for not doing anything right without adult supervision.

People get so worked up about situations they know next to nothing about and then they beat their chest and talk about what they would do in that situation.  If there was a shred of truth to that we wouldn't need cops and judges.  Everybody would just do the right thing all the time and everything would resolve itself.  Some people just need to get out and experience the world a little bit before they open their mouths.

 

Knowing that Teala was an Exotic Dancer, I am sure she has had to " fend  for herself" as well.  Some of us have expieranced brutal situations first hand and cannot understand how others could just sit their with their heads up their asses while something like this happens.  I WAS violently raped when I was 13 by a 24 yr old adult, and yes because I fought I was hurt more, but my fighting stopped him from what he was doing at the time.  Some of us know very well how we would react in a situation.Some of us have expieranced more of life than we ever wanted to. Some of us know what we can and cannot live with. It is a choice you make on how you live your life.
 

I was a police officer (in training, but I walked the streets in uniform) in Amsterdam for a year before I decided to go back to university. I got into many situations many would not even think of, some of which I'd rather not talk about and my closest friends and family don't even know about. That said, these personal anecdotes of Teala, you and some I and many others here could come up with show character, but are absolutely not representative of human instinct/psychology/sociology as a whole. And yes, I believe in the end that most of us are still herd animals to a degree. It's easy to shrug off entire fields of science (as much as I criticise social psychology and sociology myself), but fact of the matter is that those academic fields and their research hold grains of truth, and rather large ones at that.

And, again - we've seen a news report of a few paragraphs, and vague third party information at best. I don't possibly believe any of us can draw much information from that as to what happened, much less condemn the actions of the bystanders. I see it happen too much.

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

 

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

You make this statement knowing NOTHING about Teala and what she does in her community.
 

Also this statement is ridiculous.. Anyone that participates in or stands around and watches a gang rape should be shot.  That's a pretty straightforward situation.

That article tells us next to nothing about the situation.  It may sound like its so simple and straightforward but there's a reason why we don't put 15 year olds in charge of jack squat.  They're irresponsible and immature and are generally known for not doing anything right without adult supervision.

People get so worked up about situations they know next to nothing about and then they beat their chest and talk about what they would do in that situation.  If there was a shred of truth to that we wouldn't need cops and judges.  Everybody would just do the right thing all the time and everything would resolve itself.  Some people just need to get out and experience the world a little bit before they open their mouths.

 

Knowing that Teala was an Exotic Dancer, I am sure she has had to " fend  for herself" as well.  Some of us have expieranced brutal situations first hand and cannot understand how others could just sit their with their heads up their asses while something like this happens.  I WAS violently raped when I was 13 by a 24 yr old adult, and yes because I fought I was hurt more, but my fighting stopped him from what he was doing at the time.  Some of us know very well how we would react in a situation.Some of us have expieranced more of life than we ever wanted to. Some of us know what we can and cannot live with. It is a choice you make on how you live your life.
 

 

I was a police officer (in training, but I walked the streets in uniform) in Amsterdam for a year before I decided to go back to university. I got into many situations many would not even think of, some of which I'd rather not talk about and my closest friends and family don't even know about. That said, these personal anecdotes of Teala, you and some I and many others here could come up with show character, but are absolutely not representative of human instinct/psychology/sociology as a whole. And yes, I believe in the end that most of us are still herd animals to a degree. It's easy to shrug off entire fields of science (as much as I criticise social psychology and sociology myself), but fact of the matter is that those academic fields and their research hold grains of truth, and rather large ones at that.

And, again - we've seen a news report of a few paragraphs, and vague third party information at best. I don't possibly believe any of us can draw much information from that as to what happened, much less condemn the actions of the bystanders. I see it happen too much.

I understand the " Bystander effect". What I do not understand is that one person did not incite the others to do something. ALL it takes is one person to rally the rest to their courage. ALL it takes is one person standing up and taking leadership of the others to get them into action. To make them think " I cannot just sit here and do nothing".  I know this first hand as well. There is always " one" that makes the difference. I have seen exactly what you are stating first hand, that the people just stand there while terrible things happen, and I have also made people realize they can " do something" by telling them to. Often people do not know what to do, but all it takes is someone to react and tell them what they can do for them to get their asses moving.

You also compare Amsterdam to the US, which I do not think that can be compared as the same thing, as different cultures definately have a diferent fight or flight response due to social grooming. That is not how we are raised here, at least not in Texas, as that is not in our nature.  At least here, if you stand around and expect somone else to react you will most likely get your ass kicked for doing nothing, starting at a very young age. You can get your ass kicked for less than that  here, for not opening a door for a lady, for not tipping your hat or showing proper manners, for not showing proper respect for your elders. I think this could be a culture issue as well. I have actually seen a complete stranger smack a young man in the back of the head for not holding the door for a lady, that is not uncommon here. That is not something people think twice about here.

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

 

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

You make this statement knowing NOTHING about Teala and what she does in her community.
 

Also this statement is ridiculous.. Anyone that participates in or stands around and watches a gang rape should be shot.  That's a pretty straightforward situation.

That article tells us next to nothing about the situation.  It may sound like its so simple and straightforward but there's a reason why we don't put 15 year olds in charge of jack squat.  They're irresponsible and immature and are generally known for not doing anything right without adult supervision.

People get so worked up about situations they know next to nothing about and then they beat their chest and talk about what they would do in that situation.  If there was a shred of truth to that we wouldn't need cops and judges.  Everybody would just do the right thing all the time and everything would resolve itself.  Some people just need to get out and experience the world a little bit before they open their mouths.

 

Knowing that Teala was an Exotic Dancer, I am sure she has had to " fend  for herself" as well.  Some of us have expieranced brutal situations first hand and cannot understand how others could just sit their with their heads up their asses while something like this happens.  I WAS violently raped when I was 13 by a 24 yr old adult, and yes because I fought I was hurt more, but my fighting stopped him from what he was doing at the time.  Some of us know very well how we would react in a situation.Some of us have expieranced more of life than we ever wanted to. Some of us know what we can and cannot live with. It is a choice you make on how you live your life.
 

 

I was a police officer (in training, but I walked the streets in uniform) in Amsterdam for a year before I decided to go back to university. I got into many situations many would not even think of, some of which I'd rather not talk about and my closest friends and family don't even know about. That said, these personal anecdotes of Teala, you and some I and many others here could come up with show character, but are absolutely not representative of human instinct/psychology/sociology as a whole. And yes, I believe in the end that most of us are still herd animals to a degree. It's easy to shrug off entire fields of science (as much as I criticise social psychology and sociology myself), but fact of the matter is that those academic fields and their research hold grains of truth, and rather large ones at that.

And, again - we've seen a news report of a few paragraphs, and vague third party information at best. I don't possibly believe any of us can draw much information from that as to what happened, much less condemn the actions of the bystanders. I see it happen too much.

I don't see what you are talking about as instinct. I see it as the natural result when the herd embraces moral relativism, such as what gameloading believes in. It just shows the moral decadence of society today due to a shift in philosophy.

Moral relativism leads to general cowardice. The first act of courage an individual makes is to build a moral philosophy -- to take a stand on principles.

Originally posted by Vemoi

This thread should prove why there was no action taken to help this girl. All the moral relativity and excuses. Same reason I have to lock my doors now, when my parents didn't years ago. People make up there own morals and the rest have to pay the price.

Missed this response, Vemoi. Spot on.

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Enkindu

Maybe instead of death they could just have genitalia surgically removed.

Uh, no. The key word would be forcibly, not surgically.

Man, you aren't the brightest bulb in the box are you?

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Enkindu

Maybe instead of death they could just have genitalia surgically removed.

Uh, no. The key word would be forcibly, not surgically.

 

Man, you aren't the brightest bulb in the box are you?

 

Maybe he had something else in mind...
 

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Vemoi

This thread should prove why there was no action taken to help this girl. All the moral relativity and excuses. Same reason I have to lock my doors now, when my parents didn't years ago. People make up there own morals and the rest have to pay the price.

 

Missed this response, Vemoi. Spot on.

Agree 100%.  I'm just glad my parents taught me to do the right thing without thinking about it.

For those saying "you don't know what you would have done in the situation" I say that is bullshit.  I was a volunteer EMT for years and I saw a LOT of people do heroic things.  The vast majority were just normal folks who found themselves in extraordinary circumstances and had the character and the instinct to do the right thing.