Originally posted by Caleveira

That Chinas policy toward its own subjects is violatory of human rights and liberties is undisputed fact. Evidence may be derived from the work of NGOs like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, the different conventions derived from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (to which the Peoples Republic of China is signatory) and their working bodies at the UN. Documentation by the US State Department as well as American Congressional comissions, not to mention similar works by most western nation states. Well publicized incidents in the media as well as investigative journalism by reputed sources such as Le Monde or the BBC.

Its only been two decades since the worst of the repression demonstrated by the Chinese government against the protestors in Tiananmen square, and the ongoing mistreatment of Tibetan and Uighur minorities were the subject of international attention in the past few months.

Anyone disputing that China does not pursue oppressive and dictatorial tactics against its own citizens is either uninformed or outright pursuing a personal agenda.

.....No one is saying they are not oppressive or dictatorial. It is a communist government what do you expect? Personally, I don't think the UN should've let China join just because the difference in government and beliefs of the people are too different. Instead of focusing on China if the Human Rights Watch actually do their jobs, there is probably a handful of third world countries causing genocides in Africa right now.

Stop turning this into some silly internet politics debate already. Its about a private company's policy.

Originally posted by ozerinx

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by ozerinx

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

THANK YOU!

 

I am going to assume you both lived in China and therefore are saying that it sucks?

I've lived there for 2 years and I thought it was great. Most the students I met there and people

that I know in US that were from China can't wait to finish college and go back. We may view communism as tyranny

but who cares if the people there don't really care.

Yes, in news your going to see extremist like tibet monks etc that hate their country but you have those type of people

in every country.

 

Except in civilized countries, those peaceful "extremists" dont get shot by the police, and political refugees are not sent back to their country of origin to face consequences for leaving.. and calling people who just want freedom extremists is pretty extreme.

 

Please learn to read news from all sources instead of just media. The Tibetan monks were attacking other civilians before they got shot. If there were "protest" like that in the US, force would be used in the States as well. There were a video that you obviously did not see where a random Chinese civilians got beat by a group of Tibetan monks and drag across the floor. Also, regarding that incident you do know why the monks protested? They wanted China to pass a law in the Tibetan area only Monks are allowed to be educated. They also want to be self governed. So let me ask you, if Californians all got together and protested to be separated and become independent of United States, would military force be used?

Hmmm.... wasn't Tibet annexed by force by China?

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

I personally think the Aurora company would do this regardless since I've been actually reading forums and blogs of the beta. The change was asked by the players due to a imbalance in games. What is it exactly I don't know it is 10-15 pages of QQ and troll that I don't want to read.

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

Its a matter of mentalities. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

....That's like saying weren't the Indians annexed by force by the Europeans(Americans).

"There was no further explanation of the ruling, although the headline on the Pacific Epoch site says it is an attempt to rein in transsexuals in games."

I feel that companies should be allowed to run however they want within the law, but if that is the real reason behind this along with banning people already playing the game instead of players joining the game....WTF

And it's only guys playing female chars...not girls playing male chars

Wth has Tibet got to do with this private company's cowardly policy?

Apart from that, China is really not the only country where a company would do such a thing. Not that long ago a different large country almost went to defcon 5 after someone showed a nipple on national tv. I can easily imagine that some MMO company in that country would come up with a similar ridiculous policy.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Wth has Tibet got to do with this private company's cowardly policy?

Apart from that, China is really not the only country where a company would do such a thing. Not that long ago a different large country almost went to defcon 5 after someone showed a nipple on national tv. I can easily imagine that some MMO company in that country would come up with a similar ridiculous policy.

 

hilarious the way you put that =). but no, sorry I wont bite this one. ;-)

Many American companies have rules against cross dressing in the work place and they are legal due to them being private companies.  So long as the rules are displayed to you before you are hired you have to accept those rules to work for the company.

In England the government forced an old woman to take down a sign that said "Homosexuality is a sin" on her own property because they said it was hate speech...does this make the gays Hetrophobes?

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

 

Its a matter of mentalities. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

What a bs. Private companies always can and will restrict your freedom on their own turf. Just look at official forumrules of any game. There is no such thing as freedom of speech on those forums.

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by rothbard

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

Its a matter of mentalities, not freedom. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

I think you have it backwards.  The aurora company is not restricting anyone's freedom.  They offer a product, which people are free to purchase or not.  That's it.  If some busybody bureaucrat with a legion of armed thugs at their command can use force to stop the company from offering it's product, then that is a loss of freedom.  Such things are more likely to occur in the "civilized" "moral" social democracies of europe and north america, than they are in China.  That's why, in this case, there is more freedom in China than in other countries of the world.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

 

Its a matter of mentalities. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

 

What a bs. Private companies always can and will restrict your freedom on their own turf. Just look at official forumrules of any game. There is no such thing as freedom of speech on those forums.

absolutely right on that one. however, companies in the western world know that its people are not very likely to roll over and accept certain things. unlike the chinese people, who seem to enjoy being oppressed.

Originally posted by Horusra

Many American companies have rules against cross dressing in the work place

Sheesh, next they have rules against people who are not attractive enough.

Originally posted by maji

Originally posted by Horusra

Many American companies have rules against cross dressing in the work place

Sheesh, next they have rules against people who are not attractive enough.

Hooters, strip clubs, models, actors, etc.

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

 

Its a matter of mentalities. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

 

What a bs. Private companies always can and will restrict your freedom on their own turf. Just look at official forumrules of any game. There is no such thing as freedom of speech on those forums.

 

absolutely right on that one. however, companies in the western world know that its people are not very likely to roll over and accept certain things. unlike the chinese people, who seem to enjoy being oppressed.

Requiring some condition to be met before you are allowed to play someone's game is NOT OPPRESSION.

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by rothbard

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

Its a matter of mentalities, not freedom. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

I think you have it backwards.  The aurora company is not restricting anyone's freedom.  They offer a product, which people are free to purchase or not.  That's it.  If some busybody bureaucrat with a legion of armed thugs at their command can use force to stop the company from offering it's product, then that is a loss of freedom.  Such things are more likely to occur in the "civilized" "moral" social democracies of europe and north america, than they are in China.  That's why, in this case, there is more freedom in China than in other countries of the world.

Im sorry, we just gonna have to agree to disagree. I dont see a ice cream company (for the sake of argument) opening a shop in paris (again, for the sake of argument) selling chocolate only to boys and strawberry only for girls doing very well, business wise. it can happen sure, but is it likely? no.

Originally posted by ozerinx

....That's like saying weren't the Indians annexed by force by the Europeans(Americans).

LOL, now who's the troll?

China invaded and took over Tibet and you argued that the Tibetans brought on this latest crackdown themselves. So using your own analogy... I guess you'd make a great indian fighter.

Personally, I agree with both the Tibetans and the Native American tribes... but at this point in time it would be alot easier to right the wrong in China then it would be to right the wrong in the US.

I remember there is a japanese game that has sex restriction as well where cross dressing wasn't allowed.

Wasn't a very big game it was similar to those like NEXON or IJJI games just small short rounds.

They also ask for correct social that is checked and cell number. They check for your sex and "gives" you your account according to your Social Sex.

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by rothbard

Originally posted by Brixon

Originally posted by Daedalus732

Originally posted by Brixon

There seems to be a lot of homophobia going on with the people who have a problem with people playing a character of the opposite gender. It's no ones business how people want to play the game, but the person playing the game.

Another disturbing trend in this post is the willingness of some people to give China a pass on it's long history of denying human rights and freedom to it's people. It's real easy for people who have never lived in tyranny, to underestimate the blessings of their own liberty.

 

I don't think it's homophobia or a problem with sexual orientation, but rather a problem with gender bending. The two can sometimes be related, but in this case, the focus is on gender, not sexual orientation.

Unless I read the OP wrong, this is a private company, not the government, setting up this requirement.

Also, I don't think this qualifies as a human rights violation. Plenty of private companies levy restrictions on their employees private lives, even in the U.S., and no one complains because most people agree that a private company has the right to decide such things.

Given that we're talking about a game restriction, I think it's a little insulting to put this in the same category as, say, the crackdown on protesters in the post-Iranian election period.

Problems with gender bending seem a liltte homophobic to me.

Would this "private company" be doing this if was anywhere else but China?
 

Why the scare quotes on "private company"?  As far as location, who cares?  Are you saying they would be prevented by force from doing this in another country?  If so, isn't that an argument that there is MORE freedom in China versus less?

 

Its a matter of mentalities. imposing restrictions to freedeom like this is much more likely to happen in china then holland, for example. saying china is more free then holland because companies have the freedom to limit your freedom is just wrong.

 

What a bs. Private companies always can and will restrict your freedom on their own turf. Just look at official forumrules of any game. There is no such thing as freedom of speech on those forums.

 

absolutely right on that one. however, companies in the western world know that its people are not very likely to roll over and accept certain things. unlike the chinese people, who seem to enjoy being oppressed.

Requiring some condition to be met before you are allowed to play someone's game is NOT OPPRESSION.

If you require a webcam to try their product, you can go out and buy one. but limiting your choices because of gender is oppression.

Originally posted by Horusra

 

In England the government forced an old woman to take down a sign that said "Homosexuality is a sin" on her own property because they said it was hate speech...does this make the gays Hetrophobes?

  Oh too funny :) I could deduce from that , that you assume the English government is gay lol.

Your example is not logically sound. The government doesnt represent just homosexuals or just heterosexuals. Being anti hate also doesnt mean you are anti a certain group.

Originally posted by dterry

Originally posted by ozerinx

....That's like saying weren't the Indians annexed by force by the Europeans(Americans).

LOL, now who's the troll?

 

China invaded and took over Tibet and you argued that the Tibetans brought on this latest crackdown themselves. So using your own analogy... I guess you'd make a great indian fighter.

 

Personally, I agree with both the Tibetans and the Native American tribes... but at this point in time it would be alot easier to right the wrong in China then it would be to right the wrong in the US.

Right the wrongs.....good luck with that...countries by nature a Amoral and will always act in their best interest.  So to right the wrongs it would have to be in another countries best interest and frankly where China is involved it is not.

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by Horusra

 

In England the government forced an old woman to take down a sign that said "Homosexuality is a sin" on her own property because they said it was hate speech...does this make the gays Hetrophobes?

  Oh too funny :) I could deduce from that , that you assume the English government is gay lol.

Your example is not logically sound. The government doesnt represent just homosexuals or just heterosexuals. Being anti hate also doesnt mean you are anti a certain group.

I fail to see the "hate".  According to the news the police came to her house because a gay group was planning a parade along the route and did not want the sign there....heterophobia on their part or maybe Chistianphobia...or sinaphobia

Originally posted by dterry

Originally posted by ozerinx

....That's like saying weren't the Indians annexed by force by the Europeans(Americans).

LOL, now who's the troll?

 

China invaded and took over Tibet and you argued that the Tibetans brought on this latest crackdown themselves. So using your own analogy... I guess you'd make a great indian fighter.

 

Personally, I agree with both the Tibetans and the Native American tribes... but at this point in time it would be alot easier to right the wrong in China then it would be to right the wrong in the US.

Your completely missing the point. If the Native American tribes basically protested and told US to GTFO and leave them alone how do you think US will react? Especially with other American citizens in the area being harmed by the native americans.

This was the case in Tibet. If you were China what would you do watch your citizens in Tibet be beat up on and become "inferior" people compare to the Tibetan monks?

I am dropping this debate unless someone want to go make a thread about this.