Hi Folks,

I am seriously considering picking up CO to hold me over till releases such as Mortal Online, Global Agenda, SW:TOR, and Huxley; maybe even longer, if needed. I am well aware that the game is not centered around PvP, but I do like that the PvP is centered around balanced fights, and I see them introducing some sort of ranking system in the future.

I am a PvPer at heart, and the only PvE I have ever enjoyed in a game was in City of Heroes/Villians. This is simply because the combat was pretty exciting and intense, and travel powers bring the Z-axis into the picture without bringing a fairy-feel into the picture (cough cough Aion), which I enjoy; I feel it helps bring skill into the picture during PvP. I loved CoH, but hated the fact that there was literally no meaningful/competitive PvP

I am aware that there are currently some balancing issues with some OP powers etc, but wanted to get a general feel for how the community felt about the future of PvP in CO.

Feel free to vent/praise as you feel necessary. Also willing to hear about other options, but I've tried pretty much everything out there. Would also consider returning to a game if someone buts up a good argument as to why it'd be worth it. Not a huge fan of Auto-target games, but I feel Cryptic implements it fairly well, while maintaining the feel that player skill matters via use of travel powers.

TL;DR: Is Champions Online a worthwhile purchase for an avid PvPer? Why/why not?

Thanks in advance.

-Daelyx

Right now PVP is more like an afterthought than anything, i personally just got frustrated with it and left. If you really are a hardcore pvp fan why not check out darkfall?

Some pvp is fun. The pop is declining somewhat rapidly so not too sure how pvp is holding up. It can be fun. The downside for you....all level advancement is done through pve with some very minor xps given for a pvp bout. The content is very easy, primarily single player oriented. If you enjoyed the pve I would say go for it as it can hold you for a month or two. However, as you said you dont like pve much so I dont think you would get your moneys worth from the game.

no offense but when it comes to pvp

why not try atlantica.. you're going to fight while controlling upto 9 characters..

with different job, class and skills.. it's really exciting and amazing..

Just stopped played a day ago, and I was very into pvp.

First of all the open skill system is very cool.

Most pve content is solo.

You can level by pvp if you want, but your equipment will be out of date if that is all you do.

The devs are not fast at fixing broken or overpowered powers that get exploited in pvp. Which is not too bad up to level 30, but gets very bad in the last tier.

And it does look like population is declining fast.

For something to have fun with for about a month, go for it, if you are looking for something to get into for 3 years, look elsewhere.

I don't get the impression CO will ever be a great PVP game, given it's extremely open-ended character creation system and the types of powers in the game on release.  It might eventually be passable, but probably not in the near future...

The PvP in CO is enjoyable, but its more of an aside based around deathmatches and capture the flag type instances (e.g. be the first individual or team to kill x number of heroes, kill the other sides bosses, etc).

To PvP effectively you need a have such a build in mind when creating your hero, otherwise you'll just be cannon fodder and a liability to any team.  Although, that's pretty obvious.

However, if you are looking for a PvP focused game I can't really recommend it.  The majority of the content (by far) is PvE.

Originally posted by Axehilt

I don't get the impression CO will ever be a great PVP game, given it's extremely open-ended character creation system and the types of powers in the game on release.  It might eventually be passable, but probably not in the near future...

Excuse me but I think this post makes no sense. Pvpers love open ended systems. Look at EVE online. So its fine to diss Champions Online but don't blame it on open ended system unless you've played all the the great ones MADE for pvp like Darkfall, EVE, and Ultima Online. only then should one open their mouth and make broad generalizations!

Have a good day :)

Without Villain play pvp was always going to suffer as just a peripheral element of the game experience, couple that with a difficult to (ever) balance open power system and Cryptics simplistic and superficial approach to everything thats not avatar customisation and I can't think there is much to offer a dedicated pvp'er.

The recent bloodmoon video shows their latest take on pvp (their pvp designer is stoked about it apparently ^^), from my perspective it misses the point, but as I am clearly out of synch with this game's entire design... maybe you will think differently when you see the video.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Right now PVP is more like an afterthought than anything, i personally just got frustrated with it and left. If you really are a hardcore pvp fan why not check out darkfall?

I have played Darkfall for a good 6 months, and loved it for a long time. I am strongly considering going back.

However, the things that has driven me away again and again are 2 fold:

The game is so anti-casual, it's not funny. If you want to get involved in any real PvP outside of dueling, you better be prepared to spend a good 2 hours looking for a single good fight, especially if you are running solo. I'm more of a soloer at heart, and only play about 20 hours a week, so this is a big problem.

-I don't want to be a mage, so I currently have no choice but to get rolled in PvP. The game is currently Casterfall. I hate how everyone runs around wearing bone, casting aoe's; yeah they toned down the grind, but the real problem of no identity variation still persists.

Thanks to the rest of you that have answered. Doesn't sound like anyone is very impressed with CO.

Everyone already covered the weaknesses, etc. Right now the pvp side of things is really undeveloped. At first, you'll have some fun. But soon you see the weaknesses. since its just deathmatch 1-30, you'll see everyone just go for the 'weak links'. So the poor concept builds can possibly get steamrolled.

Meleers, like average MMO, have severe issues. Whats strange you have the Melee energy builders so you'd think the designers would give melee some nice advantage if you pin yourself into this. But they really just give minor buffs from what I saw. So ranged players have sick advantages. This really isnt that bad but what sucks is you can only have 1 energy builder. So picking a melee energy builder makes ya a gimp in PVP. Sadly, ranged players can cherry pick the rare good broken melee skills like STC and just murder. So going with a melee builder is suicide.

This coulda been helped if you can carry more than 1 builder but you cant. Its a stupid limitation in regards to PVP

Sadly, you wont feel like a meleer if you go ranged builder + rest melee attacks. You're just a ranged player with melee skills

Whats funny ranged players can get same tank as melee and move same speed, etc. just kinda sad.

Even worse- the Melee skills that do the best dmg is the ranged sets that happen to have a melee attack

So take Might set- its outclassed by Energy blades which come from ranged set. Same with chainsaw. does more dmg then Martial Arts / Might, etc from what i can tell yet it comes from Ranged set. Worse, in pvp its better than might powers cause you can 'maintain' it so its nice for killing Teleporters

Other issues- well getting back to Deathmatch, its just bad. The maps like Cage and stronghold are too low of a ceiling and not wide open. Just bad design

dunno bout the new zombie maps. I think those are wide open but once agian just more stupid deathmatch. Silly devs are kinda gimp when it comes to pvp. People wantefd objectives like capture a point. Woulda worked well for the game since ppl can escape death fairly easy

and worse, they have travel disablers. It's kind of a good idea but makes powers like Flight hard to use. someone, anyone can just toss a barrel and you come falling down to the ground and ya get gangbanged. So everyone eventually just grabs Teleport. and maybe Tunneling.

you have other broken powers like LASH where it can be spammed to keep someone permadisabled. When i got lashed i would just logout and log back in to get away

PVP was a pure afterthought. PVE grouping was an afterthought as well. so i left when it felt like single player game. Maybe pve side of things is better now since u can share missions finally

well if you really want to know how the PvP is go try it out for this weekend, its free

http://www.champions-online.com/bloodmoon_weekend

Give it a shot you might like it.

But be warned people are right on only really enjoying it for a month or 2.

I belong to a guild called "waiting on swtor"

Its fun, it passes the time.

*Had the celestial powerset not come out I would have probably stopped playing - it kept my interest for about 20 days before tuesday (luckily someone by the name of yellowjacket was offering all 14 quests for free so I was able to unlock it yesterday)

I've only leveled characters into the 20's

character creation is fun
pvp is fun
pve is ok

someone said that its worth it for the 1-3 months that you'll play.. and so far they're right

I see myself quitting by the end of the year unless they do a new powerset by then

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Axehilt

I don't get the impression CO will ever be a great PVP game, given it's extremely open-ended character creation system and the types of powers in the game on release.  It might eventually be passable, but probably not in the near future...

Excuse me but I think this post makes no sense. Pvpers love open ended systems. Look at EVE online. So its fine to diss Champions Online but don't blame it on open ended system unless you've played all the the great ones MADE for pvp like Darkfall, EVE, and Ultima Online. only then should one open their mouth and make broad generalizations!

Have a good day :)

I'm speaking of PVP where decisions matter and are interesting.  Not the predetermined victory/defeat types of games you listed, where no interesting decisions can be made during a fight because pre-battle factors have already decided who's going to win.

Open ended character creation is a step upwards on the "harder to balance things" scale, and CO is in a sorry state as a result.  Balanced PVP causes player decisions to matter; unbalanced PVP causes things to be predetermined.  Why bother playing a game if the outcome is predetermined?

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Axehilt

I don't get the impression CO will ever be a great PVP game, given it's extremely open-ended character creation system and the types of powers in the game on release.  It might eventually be passable, but probably not in the near future...

Excuse me but I think this post makes no sense. Pvpers love open ended systems. Look at EVE online. So its fine to diss Champions Online but don't blame it on open ended system unless you've played all the the great ones MADE for pvp like Darkfall, EVE, and Ultima Online. only then should one open their mouth and make broad generalizations!

Have a good day :)

 

I'm speaking of PVP where decisions matter and are interesting.  Not the predetermined victory/defeat types of games you listed, where no interesting decisions can be made during a fight because pre-battle factors have already decided who's going to win.

Open ended character creation is a step upwards on the "harder to balance things" scale, and CO is in a sorry state as a result.  Balanced PVP causes player decisions to matter; unbalanced PVP causes things to be predetermined.  Why bother playing a game if the outcome is predetermined?

Never played EVE Online have you? Don't speak bout games you know little bout. People can see right through these posts and they will just ignore you from that point forward (like I am going to do)

Originally posted by drgran

well if you really want to know how the PvP is go try it out for this weekend, its free

http://www.champions-online.com/bloodmoon_weekend

Give it a shot you might like it.

But be warned people are right on only really enjoying it for a month or 2.

 

Ah yes I agree the best teacher is seeing it for yourself. I'd recommend trying it out for free. Too bad you will not be max level like we were in beta tho--- unless you can copy yourself to test server and somehow get upgraded to 40

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Axehilt

I don't get the impression CO will ever be a great PVP game, given it's extremely open-ended character creation system and the types of powers in the game on release.  It might eventually be passable, but probably not in the near future...

Excuse me but I think this post makes no sense. Pvpers love open ended systems. Look at EVE online. So its fine to diss Champions Online but don't blame it on open ended system unless you've played all the the great ones MADE for pvp like Darkfall, EVE, and Ultima Online. only then should one open their mouth and make broad generalizations!

Have a good day :)

I'm speaking of PVP where decisions matter and are interesting.  Not the predetermined victory/defeat types of games you listed, where no interesting decisions can be made during a fight because pre-battle factors have already decided who's going to win.

Open ended character creation is a step upwards on the "harder to balance things" scale, and CO is in a sorry state as a result.  Balanced PVP causes player decisions to matter; unbalanced PVP causes things to be predetermined.  Why bother playing a game if the outcome is predetermined?

 Never played EVE Online have you? Don't speak bout games you know little bout. People can see right through these posts and they will just ignore you from that point forward (like I am going to do)

Haven't played many skill-focused PVP games, have you?  A huge part of winning EVE battles is bringing the right number of players outfitted with the right strength of ships.  This is not a trivial amount of non-skill factors we're talking about, it has a huge influence on who wins/loses a battle.

My original point remains: CO is in a sorry state right now as a result of its open-ended character creation system, and it will be at least a year before it's in any decent shape, and it will likely never provide very good PVP.

As a generalisation PvP Balance is rarely about the state of a game.  No game has got it right and its very doubtful they ever will.   Most of the problems understanding balance with classless based MMO are people being to fixated on being spoon feed rolls, so get stumped when not confined.

The powers actually work quite well, as does the classless approach.  Some are more PvE focused and not really PvP viable, but most are.  Although that isn't really an issue, when you can pick and choose and especially for a heavily PvE focused game.  However, its mostly down to how good they are at :-

a) building a character (ignoring FotM templates).

b) actually playing.

FotM builds are generally used to compensate for lack of both of the above.

---

Originally posted by grapevine
As a generalisation PvP Balance is rarely about the state of a game.  No game has got it right and its very doubtful they ever will.   Most of the problems understanding balance with classless based MMO are people being to fixated on being spoon feed rolls, so get stumped when not confined.
 
The powers actually work quite well, as does the classless approach.  Some are more PvE focused and not really PvP viable, but most are.  Although that isn't really an issue, when you can pick and choose and especially for a heavily PvE focused game.  However, its mostly down to how good they are at :-
 
a) building a character (ignoring FotM templates).
b) actually playing.
 
FotM builds are generally used to compensate for lack of both of the above.

---

Really, cuz pvp to me seems about how good they are at:

a) picking Mindful Reinforcement
b) picking Teleport

Originally posted by noquarter

 

---

Originally posted by grapevine
As a generalisation PvP Balance is rarely about the state of a game.  No game has got it right and its very doubtful they ever will.   Most of the problems understanding balance with classless based MMO are people being to fixated on being spoon feed rolls, so get stumped when not confined.
 
The powers actually work quite well, as does the classless approach.  Some are more PvE focused and not really PvP viable, but most are.  Although that isn't really an issue, when you can pick and choose and especially for a heavily PvE focused game.  However, its mostly down to how good they are at :-
 
a) building a character (ignoring FotM templates).
b) actually playing.
 
FotM builds are generally used to compensate for lack of both of the above.

---

 

Really, cuz pvp to me seems about how good they are at:

a) picking Mindful Reinforcement
b) picking Teleport

Then you havent played much pvp. Both of those have been gimped now in any case.

PvP in CO is exactly what it should be from a freeform sandbox type game. People choose the most powerful power combination they can find and link them into FotM type builds. The major issue is people crying about OP combinations till they are blue i the face on the forums.

Jon cares about his concept character and does think his Ice Wielder should be able to take an Ion Cannon.

Bill cares nothing about character concept and will spam whatever will do the most DPS over and over and over.

Bill eats Jon's face off, Jon is baffled on why.

Originally posted by BlueDagger

PvP in CO is exactly what it should be from a freeform sandbox type game. People choose the most powerful power combination they can find and link them into FotM type builds. The major issue is people crying about OP combinations till they are blue i the face on the forums.

Jon cares about his concept character and does think his Ice Wielder should be able to take an Ion Cannon.

Bill cares nothing about character concept and will spam whatever will do the most DPS over and over and over.

Bill eats Jon's face off, Jon is baffled on why.

i agree with this 100% 

but Crytic is a chicken shait when it comes to their games . They dont want to take any chances on losing Subs and will balance nerf the hell out of everything in the game.

When Crytic was running CoH that game got so nerfed that it was almost unbareable to play at times. Just cause of the whining on PVP and PVE

People really need to think that the games out there should only be what the developers want to make it not what every whiner babies think it should be like.