Police know of at least 4 guys that raped her and did other things.   Two are being held and others are being sought and questioned.   This took place at a California High School in Richmond.   They raped her repeated for 2.5 hrs and then beat her until she fell unconsciousness and people actual stood by and watched this happen and did not report it.     I am sorry.   If you see a crime like this happen and fell to report it...you're guilty of the crime.    God this makes me sick and angry.    I wish to see the people invovled hurt...and I mean hurt badly.

Read Story Here  <<<  clicky

A truly terrible story.  In states where there are "good samaritan" laws there is an expecation that citizens should take action, but not every state has these laws.

The only reason I can think for some of these people not reporting it (other than being terrible people) is that they were afraid harm would come to them if someone found out they did.

Which when dealing with people who would do this to someone, is possible.

Damn that's just freaking horrible.

See my post on evil on this thread.  Post #38.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

I hate to be the devil's advocate, but this is a very common (in both males and females alike, mind!) psychological phenomenon, often described in social psychology. There is actually a rule of thumb among social psychologists; the more people witnessing something, the less likely somebody will help. That's right; if there were one or two bystanders, the chances would be higher that something, anything, would have been done.

The police have a tendency to respond very.... very... sssssllllllllloooooowwwwwllllllllyyyyyyyyyy......

The amount of time that it takes for the police to reach a crime scene is directly proportional to the intensity of the violence at said crime scene. I have no doubt that someone called the police, let everyone know that the police were on the way and then waited for the police to drag ass in and save this girl.

this shit isn't anything new though. Back in the sixties there was a woman raped and killed over a four hour period in New York while the whole neighborhood watched. It's a deer in headlights kind of thing. You never expect shit like this to happen around you. Then when it does, you expect someone, anyone to do something despite the fact that it never crosses your own mind to do something. Humans are part sheep and, sadly, when shit goes down we look for the first boarder collie to follow.

Originally posted by Teala

Police know of at least 4 guys that raped her and did other things.   Two are being held and others are being sought and questioned.   This took place at a California High School in Richmond.   They raped her repeated for 2.5 hrs and then beat her until she fell unconsciousness and people actual stood by and watched this happen and did not report it.     I am sorry.   If you see a crime like this happen and fell to report it...you're guilty of the crime.    God this makes me sick and angry.    I wish to see the people invovled hurt...and I mean hurt badly.

Read Story Here  <<<  clicky

I noticed there's no mention of the responsible adults who were supervising this dance. 

I'm interested in the Ethnicities of the people involved including the victim? So that I may spit racist slander?

Originally posted by Zindaihas

See my post on evil on this thread.  Post #38.

To which you can then read on to read my refutal.

There is actually a term to describe your feeling regarding the subject, it's called Moral Absolutism

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Zindaihas

See my post on evil on this thread.  Post #38.

 

To which you can then scroll down to read my refutal.

There is actually a term to describe your feeling regarding the subject, it's called Moral Absolutism.

You're right, moral relativism rules the day.  I'm on the side of the people who stood there and watched the girl get raped repeatedly and beaten to a pulp.  And if you judge me for my position, you sir, are worse than Hitler.  Who in all reality was a pretty decent guy.

For the record, your post didn't even address my post and wasn't worth responding to.  I posted an incident that can be described in no other term besides "evil" and you went off on some tagent, "evil is subjective".  You didn't express any horror at the event.  I cringe every time I read that story.  You seem to me to be morally vacant.

Your example of bullfighting isn't even in the same category with burning a child in an oven.  You blur the lines between the two, I see a clear cut difference.  And for the record, I am against bull fighting too.  I view it as being animal cruelty.  It is not evil.  It doesn't even come close to murdering a young child.  And it doesn't rise the to level of gang raping a 15-year old.  It doesn't even approach watching the rape and doing nothing about it.

Call it moral absolutism if you want to.  I'll even agree with you.  Yes there are things in life that are absolutely evil.

It's your kind of thinking that's going to allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.  You'd rather try George Bush for freeing millions of Iraqis than prevent Iran from getting nukes.

If we had more Winston Churchills in the world and fewer Neville Chamberlains, we'd have fewer genocidal wars.

I'm just glad I had parents that taught me that doing the right thing should be automatic.

I'm all for the death penalty for rapists.  Any of these worthless pieces of shit that watched and did nothing should be shot too.  This will never happen, but turning all of this scum into fertilizer would make the world a better place.

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Zindaihas

See my post on evil on this thread.  Post #38.

 

To which you can then scroll down to read my refutal.

There is actually a term to describe your feeling regarding the subject, it's called Moral Absolutism.

 

You're right, moral relativism rules the day.  I'm on the side of the people who stood there and watched the girl get raped repeatedly and beaten to a pulp.  And if you judge me for my position, you sir, are worse than Hitler.  Who in all reality was a pretty decent guy.

For the record, your post didn't even address my post and wasn't worth responding to.  I posted an incident that can be described in no other term besides "evil" and you went off on some tagent, "evil is subjective".  You didn't express any horror at the event.  I cringe every time I read that story.  You seem to me to be morally vacant.

Your example of bullfighting isn't even in the same category with burning a child in an oven.  You blur the lines between the two, I see a clear cut difference.  And for the record, I am against bull fighting too.  I view it as being animal cruelty.  It is not evil.  It doesn't even come close to murdering a young child.  And it doesn't rise the to level of gang raping a 15-year old.  It doesn't even approach watching the rape and doing nothing about it.

Call it moral absolutism if you want to.  I'll even agree with you.  Yes there are things in life that are absolutely evil.

It's your kind of thinking that's going to allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.  You'd rather try George Bush for freeing millions of Iraqis than prevent Iran from getting nukes.

If we had more Winston Churchills in the world and fewer Neville Chamberlains, we'd have fewer genocidal wars.

The funy thing about relativism is that it refutes itself. If there are no absolutes, then how does one claim "there are no absolutes?" That in itself is an absolute.

So, effectively you are saying "There are no absolutes" is the ONLY absolute, which is logically absurd.

Self-collapsing crap.

If there is one absolute, there may be others. Therefore there might be moral absolutes, and in fact, there are. Humans know this instinctively, which is why we always make our moral beliefs absolutes (gameloading does this as much as anyone. He always acts as if he thinks he is RIGHT, which he can't really be if there are no absolutes). there is something inside all of us that screams: yes and no! We want and need absolutes to be human.

The problem is it is hard to determine what they are. One needs a standard, and no one has ever been able to successfully do that without an appeal to an authority such as God. It may be done at some point, but so far on;y two systematic approaches to morality which accept absolutes have been tried with any success: Randian Egoism, and Marxism.

Randian egosim however, devolves into either subjectivism, on the one hand, or a weak form of objective idealism. Marxism devolves into the destruction of the individual to the collective, and since collectives are essentially nothing more than the aggregate actions of individuals and the extensions of those actions, that one fails.

No one has come up with better than the Golden Rule, but that can't be "proven" logically. All societies that follow it get it from authority, be it God, the universe, or the Tao.

Here is the picture of the one guy.   This guy should be publicly hanged.

Originally posted by Teala

Here is the picture of the one guy.   This guy should be publicly hanged.

And what he did, assuming he did it, was totally fucking evil. Absolutely positively without a doubt -- no matter what people like Gameloading try and say.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Teala

All I have to say is I hope they find the bastards that did this.  The police had better not let up on the investgation until they have all of them caught and they better find the people that witnessed it and charge them too.   They are just as guilty as those that did it in my eyes.

 

My advice would be instead of wasting your hate on this that maybe it would be better to walk outside into your community and do something to improve it. 

Once you've accomplished that, since it's so easy and clear cut to do the right thing, come back and tell us how the witnesses should be judged.

You make this statement knowing NOTHING about Teala and what she does in her community.
 

Also this statement is ridiculous.. Anyone that participates in or stands around and watches a gang rape should be shot.  That's a pretty straightforward situation.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

 

this shit isn't anything new though. Back in the sixties there was a woman raped and killed over a four hour period in New York while the whole neighborhood watched. It's a deer in headlights kind of thing. You never expect shit like this to happen around you. Then when it does, you expect someone, anyone to do something despite the fact that it never crosses your own mind to do something. Humans are part sheep and, sadly, when shit goes down we look for the first boarder collie to follow.

Kitty Genovese. The Bystander Effect, which I assume nobody in this thread read about because they're still shoutting to kill the bystanders, was originally called the 'Kitty Genovese effect'. Research into the phenomenon (which, again, affects all of us, even you, reading this - although research shows that knowing about the bystander effect lessens its effects) was done due to that exact situation.

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

 

this shit isn't anything new though. Back in the sixties there was a woman raped and killed over a four hour period in New York while the whole neighborhood watched. It's a deer in headlights kind of thing. You never expect shit like this to happen around you. Then when it does, you expect someone, anyone to do something despite the fact that it never crosses your own mind to do something. Humans are part sheep and, sadly, when shit goes down we look for the first boarder collie to follow.

 

Kitty Genovese. The Bystander Effect, which I assume nobody in this thread read about because they're still shoutting to kill the bystanders, was originally called the 'Kitty Genovese effect'. Research into the phenomenon (which, again, affects all of us, even you, reading this - although research shows that knowing about the bystander effect lessens its effects) was done due to that exact situation.

See you think that I would stand and do nothing.   I am not like that at all.  Anyone that knows me knows I will get involved - even at my own peril.   I have done it in the past.    Want to know how bad I am?   I once tackled a shop lifter and I was standing in line in another checkout.  The girl said," hey someone stop that guy! "  He had grabbed a carton of cigs and then made a dash for the door.  I ran past this one guy and literally dove and tackled the guy to the floor.    Don't belive me..ask my friend who was there that day(can give you his name and number and you can ask him yourself - if you must).    LOL!   He freaked out.  Said I was one crazy bitch.   Then again I grew up with four brothers and all of them would do the same.   When our house caught on fire one christmas - we actaully ran in and put the fire out because the stupid fire department failed to do it.   We went in and grabbed extinguishers and put the fire out.   We were not about to let our house burn down.   Our folks were at work and we had just got home from school when a neighbor yelled that our house was on fire.   He said that the fire department was there all ready.    We ran to the house and sure enough it was on fire.  Fire department was standing there with their thumbs up their arse.   We said, put out the fire!   The one guy looked at us like....to late.   He shrugged.   So we pushed him out of the way and did it ourselves.   It was how we were brought up.   So do not think you know me.   Do not think I would not interfere.    You would be quite mistaken.

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

 

this shit isn't anything new though. Back in the sixties there was a woman raped and killed over a four hour period in New York while the whole neighborhood watched. It's a deer in headlights kind of thing. You never expect shit like this to happen around you. Then when it does, you expect someone, anyone to do something despite the fact that it never crosses your own mind to do something. Humans are part sheep and, sadly, when shit goes down we look for the first boarder collie to follow.

 

Kitty Genovese. The Bystander Effect, which I assume nobody in this thread read about because they're still shoutting to kill the bystanders, was originally called the 'Kitty Genovese effect'. Research into the phenomenon (which, again, affects all of us, even you, reading this - although research shows that knowing about the bystander effect lessens its effects) was done due to that exact situation.

I read all about the bystander effect.  As I said before, I'm really glad by parents taught me to do the right thing by reflex.  Most recent example I can think of in RL... my idiot nieghbors a few doors down have  a pitbull with a rotten disposition.  The lady from down the street was walking her 6 month old in a stroller when that dog snuck past someone at the front door and ran straight for the baby. I saw this about the same time as a jogger on the street and we both sprinted at the dog.  We got the lady inside and finally animal control came for that poor screwed up animal.

My point is, there was no hesitation.  "bystander effect" is nothing more than poor character unless it can be explained by some REAL barrier to action.

Originally posted by Teala
 

See you think that I would stand and do nothing.   I am not like that at all.  Anyone that knows me knows I will get involved - even at my own peril.   I have done it in the past.    Want to know how bad I am?   I once tackled a shop lifter and I was standing in line in another checkout.  The girl said," hey someone stop that guy! "  He had grabbed a carton of cigs and then made a dash for the door.  I ran past this one guy and literally dove and tackled the guy to the floor.    Don't belive me..ask my friend who was there that day(can give you his name and number and you can ask him yourself - if you must).    LOL!   He freaked out.  Said I was one crazy bitch.   Then again I grew up with four brothers and all of them would do the same.   When our house caught on fire one christmas - we actaully ran in and put the fire out because the stupid fire department failed to do it.   We went in and grabbed extinguishers and put the fire out.   We were not about to let our house burn down.   Our folks were at work and we had just got home from school when a neighbor yelled that our house was on fire.   He said that the fire department was there all ready.    We ran to the house and sure enough it was on fire.  Fire department was standing there with their thumbs up their arse.   We said, put out the fire!   The one guy looked at us like....to late.   He shrugged.   So we pushed him out of the way and did it ourselves.   It was how we were brought up.   So do not think you know me.   Do not think I would not interfere.    You would be quite mistaken.

Hell yes.  You are my kind of person Teala.

Most of the witnesses were probably kids, scared shitless. Not that I'm condoning their stupidity.

So how would guys react if you witnessed this?

Would you call the police asap?  Would you intervene and try to save the girl?  Would you just walk away?

I know I would definately find a way to call the police, but I can't say that I would intervene to try and stop it.  The type of people who would do this type of thing are more than likely the same type of people who would have no problem severely beating, if not killing someone who got in their way. 

If I was there, I probably would have quietly ducked away and called the police.  Intervening could get myself and the girl in even more trouble.

Originally posted by Praetoriani

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

 

this shit isn't anything new though. Back in the sixties there was a woman raped and killed over a four hour period in New York while the whole neighborhood watched. It's a deer in headlights kind of thing. You never expect shit like this to happen around you. Then when it does, you expect someone, anyone to do something despite the fact that it never crosses your own mind to do something. Humans are part sheep and, sadly, when shit goes down we look for the first boarder collie to follow.

 

Kitty Genovese. The Bystander Effect, which I assume nobody in this thread read about because they're still shoutting to kill the bystanders, was originally called the 'Kitty Genovese effect'. Research into the phenomenon (which, again, affects all of us, even you, reading this - although research shows that knowing about the bystander effect lessens its effects) was done due to that exact situation.

Actually I have read about it studied it and am still disgusted by it. There are many things about the human condition which disgust me -- this is one of them.

It just shows that humans are sinful as well as glorious. We are capable of anything, even doing nothing when something is so obviously needed to be done.

I wonder what are the gun carry laws in Richmond? One carefully placed shot could have ended this whole mess.