Originally posted by tkreep

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Dawnsinger

Originally posted by Gameloading 

There are indeed many people in the west who lack any sense of imagination. If it doesn't have the generic typical fantasy features they won't touch it. To me, that's not what fantasy is about. I like fantasy because it lets me experience new worlds and settings and yet for some reason many people only want to experience what they are already familar with.
Just look at the huge amount of western mmorpgs that have an already existing IP.

Where did you get this strange idea I hate everything western developers do and I have a love for generic f2p korean games? Unfortunately, you're not the first to say that and probably won't be the last.

I don't hate the creations of western developers, I dislike many of them because of their lack of imagination as far as world settings are concerned. I'm dissapointed that many treat fantasy not as something that is only limited by imagination, but as something that should stick to the things invented by Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons.

Take The Saga of Ryzom as an example, just look at the setting. Look at how different and unique it looks. Unfortuantely, games like that are the exception, not the rule.

I don't have a love for generic f2p korean games. I don't play those very often. What I am doing is defending them from incorrect claims and stereotypes.

To be perfectly honest, I think you're a bloody fool. Making a good fantasy setting or world isn't about making it magical or unique or even interesting, it's about holding up a mirror to the world, and showing you a face of it you haven't seen before. Eastern games don't do that, or at least don't do that for the Western world, I mean, take a look at Aion.

There's nothing special about Korean games, they're boring, colourful and crappy. Get over it.

Bioware, despite EA making a dog's arse of the publishing and marketing, appear to have created a brilliant setting and a very well designed and polished game. Show me an Eastern game that does that. ( And if you say Aion, I will lol. )

Ofcourse Fantasy setting is about making it magical, unique or interesting. Here, this is the very first definition of Fantasy:

imagination, esp. when extravagant and unrestrained.

Creating the same generic fantasy realm over and over again is not imaginative, especially when the games aren't even set in the same realm. They are not unrestrained either as they are all chained to already existing fantasy cliches.

To compare DE to games like Aion is silly. Aion is an mmorpg, Dragon Age is an offline roleplaying game. Ofcourse there is a bigger focus on world and storytelling in an offline mmorpg. You can say what you want about Aion, at least NCsoft didn't rely on the old orcs and elves or on an already existing IP.

To show you eastern games with much more unique world? For that you need to look no further than Squaresoft games before they merged with Enix.

Take a look at Chrono Cross, Legend of Mana or Final Fantasy X.

Look at the Architecture, the character design and storytelling, look at how different and unique it looks. Final Fantasy X may not be the best Final Fantasy from a gameplay perspective, but in my opinion it is the best one in terms of world and character design. It was a new place with its own look, people and traditions.

 

 

instead ncsoft copied paradise lost

Are you talking about the poem? you really trying to grasp at straws that much?

Originally posted by Aganazer

While I am sure it will be a good game I am really worried about a few things.

 

• Zones - I hate loading between zones in a RPG game.
   
• Common inventory between all characters - Another immersion breaking game mechanic
   
• Bioware likes invisible walls - Don't know if they exist in DA, but they always kill the fun of exploring if I feel like I am being too directed.
   
• Emo inter-party dialog - I don't care if Draco, the barbarian took offense to my unkind words when talking to the beggar. I am also not caring whether or not Feathermoon, the druid has a crush on me and wants to get it on.

You seem to contradict your self a little. Yout talk about immersion breaking with the zones and inventory yet a mechanic Bioware uses to make the best story possible you don't like? In Mass Effect their reactions to my actions made a closer connection and made them more then party members 1 and 2.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Creating a story isn't really all that hard to do, and lets not pretend as if Bioware sets a new standard for storytelling.

There have been many companies that were able to create games in Unique settings with good storylines that didn't involve a generic fantasy setting or a generic sci fi setting with laser swords and laser guns.

So uhhhh what stories or universes have you created? After all not that hard. How many rpgs have you played recently? For the past few years the only RPG with a story that even came close imo to Bioware was Fallout 3. DId you play and beat ME? When I hit the hidden planet I couldn't stop playing untill I beat the game. Its much like when Im reading a book. I know I hit the point of no return and Ill read through till the end. Can't put the game/book down and Mass Effect was one of those games. The story was well crafted and I enjoyed the universe they created.

What needs to be put in a fantasy setting that makes it unique? A amazing story can't be enough? O look space ships and guns its a "fill in the blank" rip off better not play it. Just because its elves dwarfs and dragons does not mean its your generic game and that Bioware can't craft it into a epic.

Got my CE preorder in, I'm confident it'll be as good as I think it will be.

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Creating a story isn't really all that hard to do, and lets not pretend as if Bioware sets a new standard for storytelling.

There have been many companies that were able to create games in Unique settings with good storylines that didn't involve a generic fantasy setting or a generic sci fi setting with laser swords and laser guns.

 

So uhhhh what stories or universes have you created? After all not that hard. How many rpgs have you played recently? For the past few years the only RPG with a story that even came close imo to Bioware was Fallout 3. DId you play and beat ME? When I hit the hidden planet I couldn't stop playing untill I beat the game. Its much like when Im reading a book. I know I hit the point of no return and Ill read through till the end. Can't put the game/book down and Mass Effect was one of those games. The story was well crafted and I enjoyed the universe they created.

What needs to be put in a fantasy setting that makes it unique? A amazing story can't be enough? O look space ships and guns its a "fill in the blank" rip off better not play it. Just because its elves dwarfs and dragons does not mean its your generic game and that Bioware can't craft it into a epic.

I haven't created stories or universes because my job doesn't require me to do it nor is it one my hobbies.

Did I play ME? yes. Beat it? No. I really did not like the game. The combat wasn't nearly as good as other third person shooters and the RPG elements just got in the way and slowed the game down. In my opinion, the game would be much better if they either went with an RPG combat system or a third person combat system instead of this dull hybrid.

What I have experienced of Mass Effect was dull and generic. The space setting was completely generic, the storyline involved your main character becoming a part of an elite group, one of that elite group is a betrayer ofcourse and there is an ancient evil. Been there, done that,  It wasn't bad, the writing was pretty good and the characters were decent enough, but I played games with a much better storyline. also, keep in mind that a setting and storyline are two very different things. What i' dislike about Bioware games are their settings.

What I think needs to be put in a fantasy setting is originality. Craft a new world with its own look, people and traditions. If you don't want to do that, then use a subject that isn't used very often. Take The World Ends With You for the Nintendo DS as an example. It's an RPG that uses a stylish modern Tokyo pop culture as a setting, I have never seen anything like it. Do we really need another Dungeons and Dragons or Star Wars inspired game?

How many RPGs I played recently? I played quite a few but I don't really beat them much anymore. Over the past few years I played Oblivion, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey and a couple more I didn't play for very long.

Out of those, I enjoyed Lost Odyssey's storyline the most.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Creating a story isn't really all that hard to do, and lets not pretend as if Bioware sets a new standard for storytelling.

There have been many companies that were able to create games in Unique settings with good storylines that didn't involve a generic fantasy setting or a generic sci fi setting with laser swords and laser guns.

 

So uhhhh what stories or universes have you created? After all not that hard. How many rpgs have you played recently? For the past few years the only RPG with a story that even came close imo to Bioware was Fallout 3. DId you play and beat ME? When I hit the hidden planet I couldn't stop playing untill I beat the game. Its much like when Im reading a book. I know I hit the point of no return and Ill read through till the end. Can't put the game/book down and Mass Effect was one of those games. The story was well crafted and I enjoyed the universe they created.

What needs to be put in a fantasy setting that makes it unique? A amazing story can't be enough? O look space ships and guns its a "fill in the blank" rip off better not play it. Just because its elves dwarfs and dragons does not mean its your generic game and that Bioware can't craft it into a epic.

I haven't created stories or universes because my job doesn't require me to do it nor is it one my hobbies.

Did I play ME? yes. Beat it? No. I really did not like the game. The combat wasn't nearly as good as other third person shooters and the RPG elements just got in the way and slowed the game down. In my opinion, the game would be much better if they either went with an RPG combat system or a third person combat system instead of this dull hybrid.

What I have experienced of Mass Effect was dull and generic. The space setting was completely generic, the storyline involved your main character becoming a part of an elite group, one of that elite group is a betrayer ofcourse and there is an ancient evil. Been there, done that,  It wasn't bad, the writing was pretty good and the characters were decent enough, but I played games with a much better storyline. also, keep in mind that a setting and storyline are two very different things. What i' dislike about Bioware games are their settings.

What I think needs to be put in a fantasy setting is originality. Craft a new world with its own look, people and traditions. If you don't want to do that, then use a subject that isn't used very often. Take The World Ends With You for the Nintendo DS as an example. It's an RPG that uses a stylish modern Tokyo pop culture as a setting, I have never seen anything like it. Do we really need another Dungeons and Dragons or Star Wars inspired game?

How many RPGs I played recently? I played quite a few but I don't really beat them much anymore. Over the past few years I played Oblivion, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey and a couple more I didn't play for very long.

Out of those, I enjoyed Lost Odyssey's storyline the most.

 

 Well as the saying goes friend. "Don't fix something if it is't broken" The old Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, and D&D style worlds are still used because people still enjoy them. I for one still enjoy a good fantasy game/mmo even if it still uses the same old "worlds". To you it may seem dull, but maybe that is because your tastes are moving away from these style games? All i know is while there is a fanbase for said games they will still produce them in these older Scifi/fantasy settings. On a side note, T.W.E.W.Y. is in no way a org world setting, from about 1992 to 2005 there were a number of japanesse games with the same theme (it was a trend), and more then a few made it stateside/global

{mod edit - tidied it up for you}

Sorry for the post within your post, im dead tired. Didnt even notice untill afterwords

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Creating a story isn't really all that hard to do, and lets not pretend as if Bioware sets a new standard for storytelling.

There have been many companies that were able to create games in Unique settings with good storylines that didn't involve a generic fantasy setting or a generic sci fi setting with laser swords and laser guns.

Each to their own I guess.
 

So uhhhh what stories or universes have you created? After all not that hard. How many rpgs have you played recently? For the past few years the only RPG with a story that even came close imo to Bioware was Fallout 3. DId you play and beat ME? When I hit the hidden planet I couldn't stop playing untill I beat the game. Its much like when Im reading a book. I know I hit the point of no return and Ill read through till the end. Can't put the game/book down and Mass Effect was one of those games. The story was well crafted and I enjoyed the universe they created.

What needs to be put in a fantasy setting that makes it unique? A amazing story can't be enough? O look space ships and guns its a "fill in the blank" rip off better not play it. Just because its elves dwarfs and dragons does not mean its your generic game and that Bioware can't craft it into a epic.

I haven't created stories or universes because my job doesn't require me to do it nor is it one my hobbies.

Did I play ME? yes. Beat it? No. I really did not like the game. The combat wasn't nearly as good as other third person shooters and the RPG elements just got in the way and slowed the game down. In my opinion, the game would be much better if they either went with an RPG combat system or a third person combat system instead of this dull hybrid.

What I have experienced of Mass Effect was dull and generic. The space setting was completely generic, the storyline involved your main character becoming a part of an elite group, one of that elite group is a betrayer ofcourse and there is an ancient evil. Been there, done that,  It wasn't bad, the writing was pretty good and the characters were decent enough, but I played games with a much better storyline. also, keep in mind that a setting and storyline are two very different things. What i' dislike about Bioware games are their settings.

What I think needs to be put in a fantasy setting is originality. Craft a new world with its own look, people and traditions. If you don't want to do that, then use a subject that isn't used very often. Take The World Ends With You for the Nintendo DS as an example. It's an RPG that uses a stylish modern Tokyo pop culture as a setting, I have never seen anything like it. Do we really need another Dungeons and Dragons or Star Wars inspired game?

How many RPGs I played recently? I played quite a few but I don't really beat them much anymore. Over the past few years I played Oblivion, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey and a couple more I didn't play for very long.

Out of those, I enjoyed Lost Odyssey's storyline the most.

Each to their own I guess. I have played Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey and Oblivion to the end. I found the story in ME the most engaging of all three, loved the characters, loved the gameplay, loved the game. Same with Oblivion but Lost Odyssey's combat became a chore rather than fun during disk 3. I have played both Oblivion and ME through a number of times and do on occasion go back to them, whereas Lost Odyssey got one play through and that was more than enough.

Not saying you are wrong but it has to be said that my opinion is more important than yours, at least to me ;)

Originally posted by Elasser

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Creating a story isn't really all that hard to do, and lets not pretend as if Bioware sets a new standard for storytelling.

There have been many companies that were able to create games in Unique settings with good storylines that didn't involve a generic fantasy setting or a generic sci fi setting with laser swords and laser guns.

 

So uhhhh what stories or universes have you created? After all not that hard. How many rpgs have you played recently? For the past few years the only RPG with a story that even came close imo to Bioware was Fallout 3. DId you play and beat ME? When I hit the hidden planet I couldn't stop playing untill I beat the game. Its much like when Im reading a book. I know I hit the point of no return and Ill read through till the end. Can't put the game/book down and Mass Effect was one of those games. The story was well crafted and I enjoyed the universe they created.

What needs to be put in a fantasy setting that makes it unique? A amazing story can't be enough? O look space ships and guns its a "fill in the blank" rip off better not play it. Just because its elves dwarfs and dragons does not mean its your generic game and that Bioware can't craft it into a epic.

I haven't created stories or universes because my job doesn't require me to do it nor is it one my hobbies.

Did I play ME? yes. Beat it? No. I really did not like the game. The combat wasn't nearly as good as other third person shooters and the RPG elements just got in the way and slowed the game down. In my opinion, the game would be much better if they either went with an RPG combat system or a third person combat system instead of this dull hybrid.

What I have experienced of Mass Effect was dull and generic. The space setting was completely generic, the storyline involved your main character becoming a part of an elite group, one of that elite group is a betrayer ofcourse and there is an ancient evil. Been there, done that,  It wasn't bad, the writing was pretty good and the characters were decent enough, but I played games with a much better storyline. also, keep in mind that a setting and storyline are two very different things. What i' dislike about Bioware games are their settings.

What I think needs to be put in a fantasy setting is originality. Craft a new world with its own look, people and traditions. If you don't want to do that, then use a subject that isn't used very often. Take The World Ends With You for the Nintendo DS as an example. It's an RPG that uses a stylish modern Tokyo pop culture as a setting, I have never seen anything like it. Do we really need another Dungeons and Dragons or Star Wars inspired game?

How many RPGs I played recently? I played quite a few but I don't really beat them much anymore. Over the past few years I played Oblivion, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey and a couple more I didn't play for very long.

Out of those, I enjoyed Lost Odyssey's storyline the most.

 

 Well as the saying goes friend. "Don't fix something if it is't broken" The old Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, and D&D style worlds are still used because people still enjoy them. I for one still enjoy a good fantasy game/mmo even if it still uses the same old "worlds". To you it may seem dull, but maybe that is because your tastes are moving away from these style games? All i know is while there is a fanbase for said games they will still produce them in these older Scifi/fantasy settings. On a side note, T.W.E.W.Y. is in no way a org world setting, from about 1992 to 2005 there were a number of japanesse games with the same theme (it was a trend), and more then a few made it stateside/global

{mod edit - tidied it up for you}

 

 

Name some games which had a modern day tokyo as a setting.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Elasser

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Arndur

Originally posted by Gameloading

Creating a story isn't really all that hard to do, and lets not pretend as if Bioware sets a new standard for storytelling.

There have been many companies that were able to create games in Unique settings with good storylines that didn't involve a generic fantasy setting or a generic sci fi setting with laser swords and laser guns.

 

So uhhhh what stories or universes have you created? After all not that hard. How many rpgs have you played recently? For the past few years the only RPG with a story that even came close imo to Bioware was Fallout 3. DId you play and beat ME? When I hit the hidden planet I couldn't stop playing untill I beat the game. Its much like when Im reading a book. I know I hit the point of no return and Ill read through till the end. Can't put the game/book down and Mass Effect was one of those games. The story was well crafted and I enjoyed the universe they created.

What needs to be put in a fantasy setting that makes it unique? A amazing story can't be enough? O look space ships and guns its a "fill in the blank" rip off better not play it. Just because its elves dwarfs and dragons does not mean its your generic game and that Bioware can't craft it into a epic.

I haven't created stories or universes because my job doesn't require me to do it nor is it one my hobbies.

Did I play ME? yes. Beat it? No. I really did not like the game. The combat wasn't nearly as good as other third person shooters and the RPG elements just got in the way and slowed the game down. In my opinion, the game would be much better if they either went with an RPG combat system or a third person combat system instead of this dull hybrid.

What I have experienced of Mass Effect was dull and generic. The space setting was completely generic, the storyline involved your main character becoming a part of an elite group, one of that elite group is a betrayer ofcourse and there is an ancient evil. Been there, done that,  It wasn't bad, the writing was pretty good and the characters were decent enough, but I played games with a much better storyline. also, keep in mind that a setting and storyline are two very different things. What i' dislike about Bioware games are their settings.

What I think needs to be put in a fantasy setting is originality. Craft a new world with its own look, people and traditions. If you don't want to do that, then use a subject that isn't used very often. Take The World Ends With You for the Nintendo DS as an example. It's an RPG that uses a stylish modern Tokyo pop culture as a setting, I have never seen anything like it. Do we really need another Dungeons and Dragons or Star Wars inspired game?

How many RPGs I played recently? I played quite a few but I don't really beat them much anymore. Over the past few years I played Oblivion, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey and a couple more I didn't play for very long.

Out of those, I enjoyed Lost Odyssey's storyline the most.

 

 Well as the saying goes friend. "Don't fix something if it is't broken" The old Star Wars, Star Trek, LOTR, and D&D style worlds are still used because people still enjoy them. I for one still enjoy a good fantasy game/mmo even if it still uses the same old "worlds". To you it may seem dull, but maybe that is because your tastes are moving away from these style games? All i know is while there is a fanbase for said games they will still produce them in these older Scifi/fantasy settings. On a side note, T.W.E.W.Y. is in no way a org world setting, from about 1992 to 2005 there were a number of japanesse games with the same theme (it was a trend), and more then a few made it stateside/global

{mod edit - tidied it up for you}

 

 

Name some games which had a modern day tokyo as a setting.

The World Ends With You

And then Shenmue is close enough. Not quite Japan, but close enough. Modern day China.

Isn't JRPG's are all about some girl looking dude teaming up with a rich chick, a chick from his home village and though guy, then going on about killing the god (or an evil corporation or whatever) itself while having crappy turn based battles in the middle? I mean, yeah of course there are some differences, but it basically comes down to this level if you try hard enough. Which is exactly what some posters are saying about western RPGs.

If you do answer this post with "there is more to it than that you silly little man" cliché, well, there is more than that to western RPG's as well, its just a matter of perspective.

Personally, I liked Black Isle games better, I also liked KotOR II more than the first. Still, I can't think of any Bioware game that I didn't liked loved. If its half as good as Neverwinter Nights 2 (surprise, another Black Isle Obsidian game), I'll be happy.