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Im playing Aion atm, and I just had an experience literally 2 minutes ago I felt I had to share. I was soloing to my hearts desire when this gladiator came up to me and asked me to group up for a quest. I didnt have the quest, but he needed the mobs around dead, and I was there so I decided to help him out (there goes people's theories that soloers are phycopaths). Anyway, We killed 2 mobs, just 2, and he said 'sorry, need more XP' and left the group. Now keep in mind that I was helping him out, and it was his request to begin with. I felt something very wrong had just happened. What do you guys think about it?
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Originally posted by Toquio3
It points out the differing mentalities above players. You are able to group just for fun, to help someone out... while others out there will only do it if they get something out of it, if they're bribed with more loot or more XP. Given the choice, I'd much rather group up with you than with the other guy. |
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Originally posted by Toquio3
I just think there are idiots everwhere. Funny enough I had the exact experience last night. Was fighting and got a tell asking for a rez. I tried to give a quick tell back askhing him to wait a sec but died as I didn't send the tell, just remained in the chat window not realizing I hadn't hit the enter key correctly. Well, I died. I suddenly get a rez from somone else. He then tells me to get the guy who orginally contacted me. Well, we end up grouping and finished mose of our quests very quickly. It's a bit of a pot luck at times. The only thing you can do is to shrug it off and move on. |
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Kyleran
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
"In EVE, no one gives a damn about a fair fight." - chafin |
Originally posted by madeux
It points out the differing mentalities above players. You are able to group just for fun, to help someone out... while others out there will only do it if they get something out of it, if they're bribed with more loot or more XP. Given the choice, I'd much rather group up with you than with the other guy. Ditto. Shame so many players are like the gladiator you ran into, (time to wax poetic about the good old days) but people used to be more like you back in the day. Now the attitude is similar to what you experienced and frequently transcends into the end game where you can't be part of guild/group/raid unless you meet minimum reqs. Part of this is due to game design of course, if people don't have the right gear they can't survive with the group, but part of it is just being self-serving and not worrying about the greater gaming community overall. Shrug it off and with luck your next group experience will be better.
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon EVE Cult member since May 2007 Regarding EVE: "To be honest, I think God himself created this game." - Shek Regarding new players in EVE: "Think of yourself as a child released into a park full of pedophiles..." - Eleazaros |
Originally posted by madeux
It points out the differing mentalities above players. You are able to group just for fun, to help someone out... while others out there will only do it if they get something out of it, if they're bribed with more loot or more XP. Given the choice, I'd much rather group up with you than with the other guy.
obviously this is a different situation than most groupers are talking about, this is two people taking on a solo oriented mob and thus spliting the exp. most groupers are talking about groups vs group oriented content/mobs and in that case yes they should get more loot/exp than a soloer fighting a solo mob. |
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Originally posted by Kyleran Ditto. Shame so many players are like the gladiator you ran into, (time to wax poetic about the good old days) but people used to be more like you back in the day. Now the attitude is similar to what you experienced and frequently transcends into the end game where you can't be part of guild/group/raid unless you meet minimum reqs. Part of this is due to game design of course, if people don't have the right gear they can't survive with the group, but part of it is just being self-serving and not worrying about the greater gaming community overall. Shrug it off and with luck your next group experience will be better.
its also bad game design, the hard split encourages soloing and not doing anything duo. I play these games for fun but i also like to be rewarded for my effort. i would have no problem throwing groups together with randoms but why would i when the hard split doesn't reward me for doing so. I blame the solofication of MMOs. |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
As I have said many times, I group and level with two other people in most MMOs, and level extremely fast compared to doing it solo. SWG pre-cu, and now, WoW and Aion. I actually recorded my time in a sense, 1-80 in WoW took me 2 months solo, 1-80 grouped took me 2 1/2 weeks. I been playing WoW since release I know the quests inside and out, and to top it off, I leveled grouped in WoTLK first before I did Solo. Stop crying, groupers still recieve better rewards and experience. Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
obviously this is a different situation than most groupers are talking about, this is two people taking on a solo oriented mob and thus spliting the exp. most groupers are talking about groups vs group oriented content/mobs and in that case yes they should get more loot/exp than a soloer fighting a solo mob.
The thing is, and I've noticed this in Aion, splitting a solo mob can actually give more xp over time. There is practically no downtime. Not that there's a huge amount when soloing but it can creep up. I find that with a duo, even with the split, I can make more xp over time. I will officially state that I'd rather duo solo mobs in Aion over the long haul than solo them. It's just better xp. |
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Originally posted by Toquio3
I think MMORPG games do not have bright future with that kind of people running loose. |
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Originally posted by Ravanos Ditto. Shame so many players are like the gladiator you ran into, (time to wax poetic about the good old days) but people used to be more like you back in the day. Now the attitude is similar to what you experienced and frequently transcends into the end game where you can't be part of guild/group/raid unless you meet minimum reqs. Part of this is due to game design of course, if people don't have the right gear they can't survive with the group, but part of it is just being self-serving and not worrying about the greater gaming community overall. Shrug it off and with luck your next group experience will be better.
its also bad game design, the hard split encourages soloing and not doing anything duo. I play these games for fun but i also like to be rewarded for my effort. i would have no problem throwing groups together with randoms but why would i when the hard split doesn't reward me for doing so. I blame the solofication of MMOs.
It's a bad game design if you want a game for PUGS. Good game design if you want to solo to the level cap, then raid. It's not really fun to do things the hard way for no reason. In other words the "fun" of grouping isn't that much fun when you realize the game is penalizing you for it. Like, it's "fun" to go to the beach. But then you find there is a 100 dollar fine for going to the beach that day. Suddenly it's not that fun any more. Nothing wrong with solo friendly games like Aion. Certainly WoW shows this is a very successful model.
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Originally posted by Ravanos Indeed. These games should give full xp for kills to all members of the group. |
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Lansid
 Elite Member
Joined: 8/21/03
"Remember... no matter where you go... there you are!" |
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter Indeed. These games should give full xp for kills to all members of the group. This... GRIND killed Roleplaying Games in general and turned it into a number crunching game. If a person gets more xp per hour per mob solo than grouping... of course most people will tend to go solo, ESPECIALLY if you are penalized for grouping. In games where downtime is not a problem, then yes most will solo for the xp and for the loot. The only game in recent past I've played where grouping was a good thing and didn't punish you was DDO. Until rewarding grouping becomes mainstream... the mentality of "the GRIND" will loom over our heads for a long time to come. "There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain." |
Originally posted by Toquio3
I'll take what is killing mmo communities Alex. |
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Originally posted by Ihmotepp
This argument always irks me. Groupers complain about those massive grouping penalities when in fact most of the time those penalties are trivial and more often then not fully compensated by the increased speed in which you get XP. It's like you go to the beach and find that there is a $10 entry fee that is actually deductible from your taxes. If you do not actually like the beach then you will complain and go do something else. It always looks to me like the grouping advocates using that argument don't actually have fun grouping but are only in it for the fast XP and the smallest barrier will turn them off from the whole experience. |
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What OP just described is exactly the reason why leveling based MMO's fail. |
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Originally posted by Ruyn
Fix'd Giving options = success. Anyways, nice try. Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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There have always been assholes in mmorpgs and truth be told we all have some asshole tendancies lurking within us. Some of us more and some less. People haven't changed, the thing that changed was the games. When interdependance and grouping are no longer a primary factor in games it frees all those asshole tendancies to come to the surface. If your reputation doesn't matter, if you don't need other people very much at all, then there is no reason to repress those occassional asshole tendancies. Some of us will anyway but in general you see a lot more bad behavior simply because people have no reason not to behave badly. That's what the solo focus does to mmorpg communities. At the other end of the spectrum I've always felt that raiding guilds did the same thing to the EQ community. People became so smug and snug in their little cliques that they started acting like assholes to anyone not in their own clique. So I'm not just using this as an excuse to bash solo friendly design. The thing that promotes good community and gives people a reason to suppress their asshole tendancies is when the entire community sort of has a "we're all in the same boat" feeling due to interdependance and when you care about your reputation in the larger community. |
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reminds me of playing WHM on FFXI. I'd walk into a zone and get 5 tells for a raise. When I get there, they're all gone lol. I was at least passing through, and they were on my way to where I was going :)
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Unfortunately what OP experienced is part of the reasons why people don't like to group with strangers anymore. You bump into way too many jerks and aholes, after awhile you just want to save the trouble and not do pickup groups. EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR I can't believe I'm playing EQ1 again...and having tons of fun |
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Originally posted by Torik
This argument always irks me. Groupers complain about those massive grouping penalities when in fact most of the time those penalties are trivial and more often then not fully compensated by the increased speed in which you get XP. It's like you go to the beach and find that there is a $10 entry fee that is actually deductible from your taxes. If you do not actually like the beach then you will complain and go do something else. It always looks to me like the grouping advocates using that argument don't actually have fun grouping but are only in it for the fast XP and the smallest barrier will turn them off from the whole experience.
actually its more like this you and 5 of your friends negotiate to move someone out of their big house. the homeowner tells you to move all the major appliances and all of the furniture in the place. in turn he pays each of you 100 bucks. the homeowner then turns around and tells me to take the pillows to his bed and move them to the new place, and gives me 100 bucks for doing so as well. wouldn't you be pissed? and if not you're a liar.
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Scalebane
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/28/06
Yours is not the path of force, though force is often needed to clear the path. |
Yeah i've had this happen in the games i have played/currently play. when it first happened and the group told me no because i would ruin their xp i was like okay... This actually made me stay solo for awhile, i figured why bother to even try and get into a group just to get denied for a stupid reason, well stupid to me. I was like 2 levels higher then many in the group so -shrugs- anyways i've mostly solo'd anymore, while there are some decent people out there, its just worth the time to weed through all of the others. So i've had to question why i even bother playing mmo's anymore, i do want to group, i don't want to deal with all the crap attitudes people seem to display anymore..meh OP don't sweat it, its nice to see a few good people out there still playing, hopefully you won't get turned away from grouping like i have. Hell i can't even bring myself to help another player i see in trouble anymore, because i have been yelled at so many times for no reason, i guess they wanted to die -shrugs-
We are all ignorant until truth is revealed to us.. However.. How do we know the truth is not in fact a lie.. "When a man has lost everything, he may despair and die. He might give his soul to the fate's... or, he can resolve to take action." "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." |
Originally posted by Torik
This argument always irks me. Groupers complain about those massive grouping penalities when in fact most of the time those penalties are trivial and more often then not fully compensated by the increased speed in which you get XP. It's like you go to the beach and find that there is a $10 entry fee that is actually deductible from your taxes. If you do not actually like the beach then you will complain and go do something else. It always looks to me like the grouping advocates using that argument don't actually have fun grouping but are only in it for the fast XP and the smallest barrier will turn them off from the whole experience.
10 dollars means different things to different people. It's a lot for someone unemployed, it's not worth picking up off the floor for Bill Gates. Maybe I didn't make enough to pay taxes, so the fact that it's "deductible" would mean nothing to me. "massive' and "trivial" are subjective terms. There is not perfect objective measurement for this. What is trivial to you, is not to me, and what is massive to you is not to me, and vice a versa. You can't tell me what is fun for me. The moment you start down that path you've stopped communicating. You have to accept that I might enjoy things you do not.
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Hmm Ive played aion and soloing can get you more exp, i dont know what his problem was but hey more exp for you :) Well, quite frankly, I don't give a flying frak whether you believe me or not, all right? Because I've had it, I am... I'm tired of being pushed and prodded around like I'm some kind of toy. I'm not your plaything! -Gaius Baltar |
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A bit off topic perhaps, but one of the reasons games like Left 4 Dead do not have this problem is because there is no material rewards. Players play to have fun in the game and to get beter at it. When getting better at games require loot treadmills, it creates artificial barriers that separate the community. In multiplayer shooter games, you know who is on your team and the better you work together, the better you'll do. It seems like alot of MMO players these days are just in it for themselves. I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, just commenting.
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Sad to say, in most games, there will always be jerks. Of course, some games would have a higher jerk ratio, but still, they are there in most games. It just depends on the luck of the draw I guess. Personally, I tend to not give out group invites, but if someone invites me into a group, I will say and help, even if I have already finished my quest. Sadly, most people would leave the group after they finished the number of mobs they killed, regardless of whether the group has people who have or have not finished their mobs yet. Purple Was Kisu (Ranger/Dervish) - Guild Wars |
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