Originally posted by grapevine

You do realise just about every subscription based MMO these days has a cash shop, for things like character renames, server moves, race changes, extra character slots, etc.

 

As for the cash shop respec , it's an option, not the only means.  Since they changed the drop rates of vendor trash, unless you are an appauling player and it took 40 levels to realise the build's not  working its perfectly affordable in-game, using in-game resource, at no additional real world cost.  That includes corrections to builds, multiple times while leveling.

 

Cryptic have handed out free respecs after every significant change, even to those that weren't affected.  The only justifiable compaint in that area is the length of time it took to issue the very first one.  Their excuse being the mechanics were not coded into the game to allow a full respec at that time.  Was that satisfactory, no, but at least they've been fair in issuing them since.

 

It was not acceptable because everyone had to respec their characters due to Cryptic's gross incompetence. On launch day, all of a sudden people logged into their characters and found that PFF was not only nerfed, but broken as well.

Cryptic was so inept, they didnt even let us test the changes in beta.

PFF was just 1 example. Tons of powers were broken and not mentioned in their patch notes.

No one should've ever needed a respec as early as Launch day. It was very unprofessional and just plain noobish of Cryptic

Not everyone had to respec, but as I said, yes it wasn't satifactory.   It was a one off scenario though, so beyond that there's no reason to complain about the lack of free respecs. 

One of my heroes has PFF and has so since early start and I've never had any problems with it.  It absorbs damage fine.  Although initally they nerfed the amount of it absorbed, but it was still usable.  What really suffered was builds that were using offensive passives, as mobs were hitting harder.  People trying to build classes into a classless game didn't exactly help the situation either.  The vast majority of people I know that had to respec fell into those two categories.

Tons of powers were also not broken, they mostly did as described, just toned down in output.   However, we aren't on launch day, there has been patches since and there is now a test server for people to check them out.

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by Axeion

cryptic cant blame the server crashes , log in probmes , in game bugs on any one but them selves.tho imho odds are they wil blame roper .i still think they hired him as a scape goat for their problems .still hopeng they turn it around . but their runing outa time to make me a subscriber.they now have cost me 5 of my 30 free days with their problems .

So it cost you 5 days at 15$ a month, it's 2,50$ for those 5 days. Today they announce they will give a free retcon (12,50$ a pop) tomorrow after the maintnance, obviously, they don't stack so you have to use the one you already have before tomorrow. Even if you weren't going to buy one, it is nice to have one bank for the future, you see I have more than 1 toon (9 exactly, so do the math). I think they are very nice to give something back to the community.

www.champions-online.com/node/594631

odd cause the comunity says its for the power set inc an ones changed .

forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php

they kinda cant make up their monds about it tho.so their may be another one inc if the dev who posted it was for weekend problems is right.if hes wrong then their wont be another one when the celectial set goes live to every one not just those who did the event.

an i said i was in my free month.im hard of reading to some times.but wonder how long this post about co population will last?

forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php

specialy since a player points out what they can see number wise...

Originally posted by grapevine

Not everyone had to respec, but as I said, yes it wasn't satifactory.   It was a one off scenario though, so beyond that there's no reason to complain about the lack of free respecs. 

 

One of my heroes has PFF and has so since early start and I've never had any problems with it.  It absorbs damage fine.  Although initally they nerfed the amount of it absorbed, but it was still usable.  What really suffered was builds that were using offensive passives, as mobs were hitting harder.  People trying to build classes into a classless game didn't exactly help the situation either.  The vast majority of people I know that had to respec fell into those two categories.

 

Tons of powers were also not broken, they mostly did as described, just toned down in output.   However, we aren't on launch day, there has been patches since and there is now a test server for people to check them out.

Seriously then I find that funny because you are one of the few that finds PFF viable still. Not everyone had to get a respec this is true. But you, like myself, was just plain lucky

In my case, I was fortunate to have picked something already fairly gimpy (Claws / LR). But I'm about to respec him if i ever return cause he blows in comparison to my Electric

But i keep checking their upcoming patch notes and it doesnt seem like they are fixing the game at all. I was also wondering what happened to the grouping patch. That should've rolled out at launch.

I dont mind playing somethings solo but Champions was just horrid. No one ever groups and when i finally got groups going we couldnt share any quests. Was just plain bloody broken. Even in CoX you could share newspapers easily and it was awesome

Hate to say this but the game is just wayyy behind CoX in my opinion I just dont know what else to say. I'm not even a CoX fanboi but when I play Champs I cant help but realize they made lotsa horrible design decisions. I liked the shardless server, nemesis, etc. And even the slightly open zones. But they blew it big with lack of teaming

Would've really helped the game if they fixed that but these horrible new CO Devs dont seem to know what they're doing or something.

I'm going to wrap up right quick some quick things I think  could help pick this game up. Cause it was bloody fun but the bad things drove me away. But I think it can be fixed

1. Grouping. This is just bloody #1. It was inexcusable to release a 100% solo MMO. Sure CoX was solo friendly too and that was awesome. But when you wanted to team you got that easy. You could share any mission. Why doesnt CO allow this????? I thought i read on this site this was coming but no news on official I can see

2. Fix broken Travel powers like Superjump. It makes no sense my superleaper that is supposed to be like the Hulk is damn near killed from the broken superjump. You take massive falling dmg and the devs make no responses bout it

3. Make sure all the sets are viable. Many powers are broken and not worth taking. General consesus is Archery sucks. Most claim Ice sucks now. Martial Arts always sucked since late beta. Claws is decent single target but way weaker than my Electric

4. Fix bloody Melee. All the time mobs run awayt from you. Its really retarded I have to sit there on my melee and cast Holds. Apparently the idea was for Melee to place roots on mobs to keep them close. Hard to fit a power that only roots into a melee build in early levels. Dont even mention Melee in PVP. Melee worked wayyyyy better in CoX. And even if you managed to use Shockwave, thunderclap, etc to good success on a team this still gets shot to hell when the ranged guys are knocking the mobs all over the place. So a melee just plain screwed....

5. Fix LR (lightning reflexes) to properly scale. It's broken the power only gets good at late levels.... Should be decent all the way through and scale nice. My Claws was using Masterful dodge + LR + bountiful chi and still had hard time (was dex/ego). Yet my Electric powerset guy + regen just cakewalked and mowed down mobs way faster.

just off the top of my head I found a long list of broken-ness in the time I spent form beta->early access->1 month

Originally posted by PatchDay

1. Grouping. This is just bloody #1. It was inexcusable to release a 100% solo MMO. Sure CoX was solo friendly too and that was awesome. But when you wanted to team you got that easy. You could share any mission. Why doesnt CO allow this????? I thought i read on this site this was coming but no news on official I can see

# The way mission sharing works has been changed. Continue reading for details.
# Timed missions can now be shared. The value of the timer will be inherited by your teammates.
# Missions that grant items at the start can now be shared, and any required items will be copied to each teammate.
# Over 100 unshareable missions have been made shareable due to the above changes.
# The new "Crossover Mission" feature allows you to more easily share missions in teams! When a teammate shares a mission that you are not eligible for (or have already completed) you will be offered a "Crossover Mission" so that you can continue playing together! These missions grant Crossover Experience and Resource rewards based on player level that doesn't count toward story completion or grant item rewards. NOTE: These are not currently available for Nemesis or Patrol missions.

www.champions-online.com/node/594636

heya patchday your list would fit in their thread here forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php now odd thing is some of these people will fanboy in other threads an games perfect .but this threads one of the few that tell alot about the games problems like mentioned here.

an realy thinking about it. co is more casual solo friendly ( not counting bugs) /shrug who cares what the population is .odds are you will solo way more than group.we will see tomorrow how their 1st big event goes.

Originally posted by Axeion

odd cause the comunity says its for the power set inc an ones changed .

forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php

they kinda cant make up their monds about it tho.so their may be another one inc if the dev who posted it was for weekend problems is right.if hes wrong then their wont be another one when the celectial set goes live to every one not just those who did the event.

an i said i was in my free month.im hard of reading to some times.but wonder how long this post about co population will last?

forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php

specialy since a player points out what they can see number wise...

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, 1st post, only 1-2 person assume it was for the coming changes but everyone else said it was for the last weekend downtime, they never said that there will be a free retcon after the new powerset goes live.

For the 2nd post, still, I don't get what you are trying to say, pretty much everyone says that there is still alot of people and they haven't seen much change in the number of player.

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Vato26

What you don't get is that you all mozy on in here, amongst people that actually enjoy CO, and claim CO is dying and use X-fire figures (they're not statistics) as your "proof".  That is a challenge to the players that actually enjoy the game.  Especially considering you all are using figures aimed at ONLY the X-fire users to CLAIM that the TOTAL CO population is falling at the same rate.  However, you all have NO clue as to the percentage of CO players actually use X-fire.  Hell, none of you all even know what percentage of the total gaming population use X-fire.  THAT is the flaw.

Well lets put it this way. Of all the players playing X-Fire , there's a distinctive decline showing. This might not be the trend for the game as a whole, but it is certainly a trend for everyone using X-Fire. So for me, being part of the X-Fire community, CO is going down and it is interesting to make note of it.

So i am using this -inside- the context of  X-Fire userbase, so i'll agree this might differ vastly from the reality, or maybe not. Regardless i don't see why someone are not allowed to mention this here. If you were part of another community which can also enable logging playtime statistics, you are free to mention that here [i..e GamerDNA or something like that] .

I would have no issue at all if someone could come here and say "on gamerDNA, CO is showing an increase!" and on "[gamingservice] it is stable!" . If anyone did that, it would nullify X-Fire instantly, but alas, no one has any other -reference- to go on.

Ideally i would love for everyone to post their respective community stats [if they got any] , as MMORPG.com is an aggregate site where you would typical post this info. No point in posting X-Fire stats to the X-Fire community as they can see it right there when they log in. The posting of X-Fire stats HERE, should imho, encourage others to "refute" or "confirm" this from their respective communities so we can get a bigger more accurate picture, but alas, there is no one even trying to do this. Instead everyone just tries to shut X-Fire stats out completely instead of simply providing their own non-X-Fire stats/trends.

Anyway, so  i'm sure everyone by now is AWARE X-Fire is a community  on its own, requiring you to install software which slows down your PC and therefore alot of players won't ever use it.  X-Fire users is also aware Champs is not properly supported by X-Fire , in fact there is no support in Vista for it (however you can enable this if you know how). So i'm certain the quantity hours is lower than it should be, however this does not explain a steadily declining trend of the remaining hours.

Other flaws of X-Fire is things like it being -western- , so games that are actually huge in Asia, does not even show up. Also it's PC specific, so games that is also on consoles also does not show up. Typically games like Final Fantasy XI is actually doing horribly on X-Fire, yet marketing and the online "buzz" does not correlate with this, confirming console+playerbase region is impacting on the stats.

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by templarx

Originally posted by Vato26

Do you know the exact percentage of the total gaming population that actually uses X-fire?  Do you?  Oh, and provide actual, hard evidence to back up this statement (X-fire is not "hard evidence").  I know for a fact you do not, therefore, I'll reiterate this one more time to help you understand it (to learn repetition is the key):

X-fire figures (they are not stats) mean jack-shit when used to compare games over the total gaming population!

Btw, the way you have presented this (especially the "weee" part) has proven my point #2 of my post above (post #17).  You fit perfectly with that point.

 

 

Until YOU can provide -anything- more reliable than X-Fire, you can scream blue murder all you like about "statistical evidence" blah blah.

If players have to pick between X-Fire and NOTHING , what do you think they will latch onto? You guessed it, X-Fire. Until that guy who used to do the MMOCharts site updates it with info which he got from all over the show, there's really nothing you can say about the accuracy or inaccuracy of X-Fire stats.

EDIT: Link to the site i was talking about : www.mmogchart.com/

 

You don't even have to look at the exact numbers or the ranking of an MMO, the TREND is as far as i'm concerned generally spot on. If a game launch, you see the spike, when free-month is over you see a drop . Now CO has been showing a solid decline since launch , compared to something more niche like Fallen Earth which either climbed are remained stable.....

 

It is not my burden of proof to provide "-anything- more reliable than X-fire".  This is because I AM NOT the one using X-fire figures (they're not statistics) to claim any game is dying.  The ones who make this claim are the ones who must back up their findings with factual proof.  I am merely stating, with factual knowledge, that X-fire figures (they're not statistics) are not statistics when used to measure game usage to the overall population.

I don't really care what they latch onto.  A false idol is still false regardless of how true someone wants it to be.  They can believe that these X-fire figures (they're not statistics) are statistics all they want.  However, that doesn't make it true as there's no control attached to these figures.  See my edit on post#73 for further verification on what "control" actually means when it comes to statistics.

Oh, and about mmorpgchart.com data.... We only have his word to go on as he provides none of his "data" as proof of these findings.  Not to mention that his charts have not been updated since April 9, 2008.  Yay for outdated figures.

Noone is claiming that XFire is science, atleast I dont, but unless you got some better data then what are you on about?

I dont care if it is statistics or not, its a tool that measures how some gamers spend their gaming time and if somehow one month after release you see a huge drop (almost 70%) it is indictive for what is going on in the game. Now you cannot extrapolate any exact numbers from it but noone is trying to do that.

Aion dropped about 30% since launch, CO dropped 70%. Now unless you have some explanation as to why CO XFire players quit more than Aion XFire players for me that is indictive of issues with the game. And lack of content is one of them, be it mobs, end-game content or PvP, CO lacks in all of those departments.

Burden of proof? Must back up findings with factual proof? Gees, this is a forum for a video game. What world are you living in?

What you don't get is that you all mozy on in here, amongst people that actually enjoy CO, and claim CO is dying and use X-fire figures (they're not statistics) as your "proof".  That is a challenge to the players that actually enjoy the game.  Especially considering you all are using figures aimed at ONLY the X-fire users to CLAIM that the TOTAL CO population is falling at the same rate.  However, you all have NO clue as to the percentage of CO players actually use X-fire.  Hell, none of you all even know what percentage of the total gaming population use X-fire.  THAT is the flaw.

You take these figures as the Holy Word, yet they should be taken as a grain of salt, and spout them to the high heavens to defame a game on a forum of people that enjoy said game.  And, before you even attempt to claim that you weren't trying to defame CO, post #25 by you, "Down to #115 and this is during a weekend... weee".  There's no other reason for you to come back here and continue to use X-fire figures (they're not statistics) to report the reduction in rank of CO on X-fire, except to defame CO.  No other reason.

My point is, usage of X-fire figures as a comparison tool outside of just X-fire user database, is not factual and is just an assumption, since NO ONE has a clue as to the percentage of the total gaming population uses X-fire.  You claim that "Aion dropped about 30% since launch, CO dropped 70%."  Alright... those are meaningless outside of the X-fire user base.  The reason being, and I've explained this sooo many times, what percentage of the overall Aion and CO user base is that?  What if only 10% of CO players used X-fire, while 50% of Aion users use X-fire?  That drop would be much smaller on the CO user base side than the Aion side.  What if the percentages were changed?  These figures are only a great estimation if-and-only-if, the total gaming playerbase that used X-fire was 100%.  But, there is enough evidence to show otherwise.  Until this percentage is known and hard evidence is used to back up this percentage, then, as I've said for the umpteenth time, X-fire figures used for comparison purposes outside of the X-fire user base is nothing more than an assumption.

First of all I did not say CO is dying. CoX is still alive and it got what, a ranking of 300+? However I am pointing out that XFire shows a dramatic decrease after the first month (70%).

Second of all this forum is for everyone, not only you who loves CO but also those that have tried it and found it lacking and also those that may try the game. And my post is for them, primarily.

I am saying to them that XFire shows a steep decline after the first month and that it reflects my game experience where the game dies of after about a month. Now what they do with that info is entirely up to them. If they are so sceptic about it as you are then they can just ignore it if they wish.

Third, as I said before, this is a user forum for gamers. This is not a scientific board or a courtroom where everything posted here must be supported with hard evidence. I dont have any "burden of proof" or obligation to back my posts with 100% statistical data (even if such data existed, which they dont).

So get a life, I am not here to defame anything. I think CO has some solid features, for example the combat is superior to Aion and so is the customization but it is also lacking in many areas (most importantly content and group content to be more specific) so that the "fun" of the game dies after a month or so and I am using XFire as an indication of that. You dont like it then fine but maybe someone else will find it useful.

When all is said and done XFire is the best (observe best does not need to mean good) data we got to gauge how well a game is going and that is entirely because the devs refuse to release subsciber numbers. So if they want they are welcome to refute the XFire data with their more factual data but that is not going to happen so we use the best that we got.

Seems like the slope is evening out now, been around 100 the past 5-6 days, which is coincidently about the time that the free month was up. See if it holds there.

I had completely different complain why i stopped to play. Game was (is) incredibly fun, fast paced, lore I love .... I do not care for 2 months of gameplay for 1 alt as I love to play and experiment all possible combinations ..... but what made me completely indiferent to game was when they for the 3rd or 4th time in one month nerfed to bottom many powers. Like no one was actually planning anything from start. Today super hero ... next morning after patch complete pussy cat. And second .... no retcon. Yes, no retcon, because what they have can not be called by any mean retcon to have to grind few months for full retcon. And I do not care about their free retcon that is result of them messing completely with game.

In first 3 weeks was already on second place for fun factor after wow and before aoc, war, lotro, .... to name few ... but with next nerf It faded completely out of my sight. When there were many problems with Aoc or war at start and I stopped to play I already knew i will be some day back .... here im at least as much sure I will never be back again.

And, to not forget, they had one of the worst support ever (no matter game was new).

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by urbanmech

XFire may not be statistical, non-bias, or even possibel to compare games numbers, but...

When at the start of the month, it lists number of people playing, and by the end of the month, that number is lower, I doubt its because all of sudden, current players of CO who are still playing, decided to uninstall XFire.

Ususally, its because they've STOPPED PLAYING.

And the number has dropped by a huge amount in the games first month, very bad sign.
 

Do you know the exact percentage of the total gaming population that uses X-fire?  Do you?  If you do, then provide actual, hard evidence.  Oh, and using X-fire figures (they aren't statistics) is not "hard evidence".

 

Until this percentage is known (at least) then a drop in X-Fire figures (they aren't statistics) on CO usage ONLY explains CO players that use X-fire.  And, since NO ONE knows the exact percentage of the total gaming population that use X-Fire, then NO ONE can extrapolate the ACCURATE statistics of the total CO gaming population from X-fire users as there's too many extraneous variables attached to the X-fire figures (they aren't statistics).

Wow, I thought I wrote that pretty clear, I dont know how you misunderstood...

I dont care what "rank" CO is, and I dont care what percentage of the population uses X-Fire. All I'm saying is that the number has dropped ALOT. You can't deny that it shows people have stopped playing. I never said anything about accurate statistics.

Afterthought edit:   There is no way that only X-Fire players have stopped playing, and everyone else still is.

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by PatchDay

1. Grouping. This is just bloody #1. It was inexcusable to release a 100% solo MMO. Sure CoX was solo friendly too and that was awesome. But when you wanted to team you got that easy. You could share any mission. Why doesnt CO allow this????? I thought i read on this site this was coming but no news on official I can see

# The way mission sharing works has been changed. Continue reading for details.
# Timed missions can now be shared. The value of the timer will be inherited by your teammates.
# Missions that grant items at the start can now be shared, and any required items will be copied to each teammate.
# Over 100 unshareable missions have been made shareable due to the above changes.
# The new "Crossover Mission" feature allows you to more easily share missions in teams! When a teammate shares a mission that you are not eligible for (or have already completed) you will be offered a "Crossover Mission" so that you can continue playing together! These missions grant Crossover Experience and Resource rewards based on player level that doesn't count toward story completion or grant item rewards. NOTE: These are not currently available for Nemesis or Patrol missions.

www.champions-online.com/node/594636

That's totally awesome yo. That was my #1 beef with the game in regards to PVE. I'll consider returning for this patch

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by templarx

Originally posted by Vato26

Do you know the exact percentage of the total gaming population that actually uses X-fire?  Do you?  Oh, and provide actual, hard evidence to back up this statement (X-fire is not "hard evidence").  I know for a fact you do not, therefore, I'll reiterate this one more time to help you understand it (to learn repetition is the key):

X-fire figures (they are not stats) mean jack-shit when used to compare games over the total gaming population!

Btw, the way you have presented this (especially the "weee" part) has proven my point #2 of my post above (post #17).  You fit perfectly with that point.

 

 

Until YOU can provide -anything- more reliable than X-Fire, you can scream blue murder all you like about "statistical evidence" blah blah.

If players have to pick between X-Fire and NOTHING , what do you think they will latch onto? You guessed it, X-Fire. Until that guy who used to do the MMOCharts site updates it with info which he got from all over the show, there's really nothing you can say about the accuracy or inaccuracy of X-Fire stats.

EDIT: Link to the site i was talking about : www.mmogchart.com/

 

You don't even have to look at the exact numbers or the ranking of an MMO, the TREND is as far as i'm concerned generally spot on. If a game launch, you see the spike, when free-month is over you see a drop . Now CO has been showing a solid decline since launch , compared to something more niche like Fallen Earth which either climbed are remained stable.....

 

It is not my burden of proof to provide "-anything- more reliable than X-fire".  This is because I AM NOT the one using X-fire figures (they're not statistics) to claim any game is dying.  The ones who make this claim are the ones who must back up their findings with factual proof.  I am merely stating, with factual knowledge, that X-fire figures (they're not statistics) are not statistics when used to measure game usage to the overall population.

I don't really care what they latch onto.  A false idol is still false regardless of how true someone wants it to be.  They can believe that these X-fire figures (they're not statistics) are statistics all they want.  However, that doesn't make it true as there's no control attached to these figures.  See my edit on post#73 for further verification on what "control" actually means when it comes to statistics.

Oh, and about mmorpgchart.com data.... We only have his word to go on as he provides none of his "data" as proof of these findings.  Not to mention that his charts have not been updated since April 9, 2008.  Yay for outdated figures.

Noone is claiming that XFire is science, atleast I dont, but unless you got some better data then what are you on about?

I dont care if it is statistics or not, its a tool that measures how some gamers spend their gaming time and if somehow one month after release you see a huge drop (almost 70%) it is indictive for what is going on in the game. Now you cannot extrapolate any exact numbers from it but noone is trying to do that.

Aion dropped about 30% since launch, CO dropped 70%. Now unless you have some explanation as to why CO XFire players quit more than Aion XFire players for me that is indictive of issues with the game. And lack of content is one of them, be it mobs, end-game content or PvP, CO lacks in all of those departments.

Burden of proof? Must back up findings with factual proof? Gees, this is a forum for a video game. What world are you living in?

What you don't get is that you all mozy on in here, amongst people that actually enjoy CO, and claim CO is dying and use X-fire figures (they're not statistics) as your "proof".  That is a challenge to the players that actually enjoy the game.  Especially considering you all are using figures aimed at ONLY the X-fire users to CLAIM that the TOTAL CO population is falling at the same rate.  However, you all have NO clue as to the percentage of CO players actually use X-fire.  Hell, none of you all even know what percentage of the total gaming population use X-fire.  THAT is the flaw.

You take these figures as the Holy Word, yet they should be taken as a grain of salt, and spout them to the high heavens to defame a game on a forum of people that enjoy said game.  And, before you even attempt to claim that you weren't trying to defame CO, post #25 by you, "Down to #115 and this is during a weekend... weee".  There's no other reason for you to come back here and continue to use X-fire figures (they're not statistics) to report the reduction in rank of CO on X-fire, except to defame CO.  No other reason.

My point is, usage of X-fire figures as a comparison tool outside of just X-fire user database, is not factual and is just an assumption, since NO ONE has a clue as to the percentage of the total gaming population uses X-fire.  You claim that "Aion dropped about 30% since launch, CO dropped 70%."  Alright... those are meaningless outside of the X-fire user base.  The reason being, and I've explained this sooo many times, what percentage of the overall Aion and CO user base is that?  What if only 10% of CO players used X-fire, while 50% of Aion users use X-fire?  That drop would be much smaller on the CO user base side than the Aion side.  What if the percentages were changed?  These figures are only a great estimation if-and-only-if, the total gaming playerbase that used X-fire was 100%.  But, there is enough evidence to show otherwise.  Until this percentage is known and hard evidence is used to back up this percentage, then, as I've said for the umpteenth time, X-fire figures used for comparison purposes outside of the X-fire user base is nothing more than an assumption.

 

First of all I did not say CO is dying. CoX is still alive and it got what, a ranking of 300+? However I am pointing out that XFire shows a dramatic decrease after the first month (70%).

Second of all this forum is for everyone, not only you who loves CO but also those that have tried it and found it lacking and also those that may try the game. And my post is for them, primarily.  And, how does this actually help the people who may choose to try this game to make a decision?  Hmm... calling the "sky is falling" tactic doesn't add anything to a discussion except defamation of the game.

I am saying to them that XFire shows a steep decline after the first month and that it reflects my game experience where the game dies of after about a month. Now what they do with that info is entirely up to them. If they are so sceptic about it as you are then they can just ignore it if they wish.

Third, as I said before, this is a user forum for gamers. This is not a scientific board or a courtroom where everything posted here must be supported with hard evidence. I dont have any "burden of proof" or obligation to back my posts with 100% statistical data (even if such data existed, which they dont).  Wow... that's your best shot?

So get a life (wow... so mature /sarcasm), I am not here to defame anything.  Coming in here to continually spout dropping X-fire rankings for CO is nothing more than defamation.  Your little "weee" comment was the major dead giveaway.   I think CO has some solid features, for example the combat is superior to Aion and so is the customization but it is also lacking in many areas (most importantly content and group content to be more specific) so that the "fun" of the game dies after a month or so and I am using XFire as an indication of that.  Which it doesn't.  Quantification of "fun" is impossible as "fun" is a qualitative and subjective experience.   You dont like it then fine but maybe someone else will find it useful.

When all is said and done XFire is the best (observe best does not need to mean good) data we got to gauge how well a game is going and that is entirely because the devs refuse to release subsciber numbers. So if they want they are welcome to refute the XFire data with their more factual data but that is not going to happen so we use the best that we got.  The "best" pile of shite is still shite.  I'm still awaiting your attempt at providing me the percentage of the overall gaming population that actually uses X-fire.

I would like to instill this to anyone who is on the fence about CO and happened upon reading this thread.  X-fire figures are nothing more than guesses.  No one knows the percentage of the total gaming population that uses X-fire.  So, only 1% or 99% of the gaming population could be using X-fire... my point is, no one knows.  Therefore, these figures should be taken with a grain of salt.  Especially considering vast majority of the time these figures are given out by the CO haters.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by ghost047

Originally posted by junzo316

 Having to take missions 3 levels above you ALL the time means that there is NOT enough content..  The devs just added more stuff to the C-Store and continue to make nerfs, but still have not added more content.

 

I never had to take missions 3 lvls above me at anytime during my lvling, same lvl or 1 lvl higher. If you did is because you did like many, you rush to the end and you skip many missions. I would be curious to see those toon and check all the missions you missed, can you link you toon from Cryptics website?

Again C-Store and content are different department.

 

Marked in red the statement that was untrue for me and will be untrue for most. And I didnt rush. I did every mission I could find around my Level + I used the tools the community made that finds quests for you.

 

Truth is Cryptic nerfed XP in a bad way on Launch day and pissed off a crapload of people. They also did some crooked mess by nerfing and breaking a lot of powers just so they could decelerate leveling progression for people

Oddly enough I recall the devs assuring us there would be no content gaps. They LIED.

Still to this day you see people complain bitterly on the forums bout content gaps

Having to do level + x missions is not a gap.  A gap is when there's nothing.  There is enough content to get to 40, without gaps.  They need to add more, as there's not much diversity, which petty much stales repeatability unless you enjoy building concepts and are not overly bothered about having to repeat things to level them.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by grapevine

Not everyone had to respec, but as I said, yes it wasn't satifactory.   It was a one off scenario though, so beyond that there's no reason to complain about the lack of free respecs. 

 

One of my heroes has PFF and has so since early start and I've never had any problems with it.  It absorbs damage fine.  Although initally they nerfed the amount of it absorbed, but it was still usable.  What really suffered was builds that were using offensive passives, as mobs were hitting harder.  People trying to build classes into a classless game didn't exactly help the situation either.  The vast majority of people I know that had to respec fell into those two categories.

 

Tons of powers were also not broken, they mostly did as described, just toned down in output.   However, we aren't on launch day, there has been patches since and there is now a test server for people to check them out.

 

Seriously then I find that funny because you are one of the few that finds PFF viable still. Not everyone had to get a respec this is true. But you, like myself, was just plain lucky

In my case, I was fortunate to have picked something already fairly gimpy (Claws / LR). But I'm about to respec him if i ever return cause he blows in comparison to my Electric

But i keep checking their upcoming patch notes and it doesnt seem like they are fixing the game at all. I was also wondering what happened to the grouping patch. That should've rolled out at launch.

I dont mind playing somethings solo but Champions was just horrid. No one ever groups and when i finally got groups going we couldnt share any quests. Was just plain bloody broken. Even in CoX you could share newspapers easily and it was awesome

 

Hate to say this but the game is just wayyy behind CoX in my opinion I just dont know what else to say. I'm not even a CoX fanboi but when I play Champs I cant help but realize they made lotsa horrible design decisions. I liked the shardless server, nemesis, etc. And even the slightly open zones. But they blew it big with lack of teaming

 

Would've really helped the game if they fixed that but these horrible new CO Devs dont seem to know what they're doing or something.

I can only assume you've not played for a few weeks or reach that high a level.  LR is classed as one of the strongest level 30+ passive defences.  It matures, but can be a pain at low levels if that is all you are relying on for defence.  Claw's works well with a high crit and severity build. 

Your  observation around grouping has some inaccuracy.  Yes there is less need to group in CO and not being able to share missions outside of chains isn't great design, but plenty still goes on and to be honest most missions are chains so being able to share wouldn't be an option anyway.  In that area they need to add more standalone missions and make them shareable.  That aside how many MMO's give much of a reason for grouping outside of end game content?  Most mostly solo to max level, taking the odd moment to do dungeons, etc.  The people who generally group from level 1 are playing with friends.  The same behaviour happens in CO.  As for the grouping patch, it went in a few weeks ago.  What's needed now is more sporadic group missions while leveling and and a much stronger end game.

PFF still works fine.  If you go to a build forum and ask for suggestions I'm pretty sure you would only see the strongest powers/spells/attacks recommended, no matter the MMO.  Just because some powers are more "easy mode" than other doesn't mean they aren't viable.  If everything was equal it would be pretty boring and there would be no challenge.

Originally posted by pre_mar

I had completely different complain why i stopped to play. Game was (is) incredibly fun, fast paced, lore I love .... I do not care for 2 months of gameplay for 1 alt as I love to play and experiment all possible combinations ..... but what made me completely indiferent to game was when they for the 3rd or 4th time in one month nerfed to bottom many powers. Like no one was actually planning anything from start. Today super hero ... next morning after patch complete pussy cat. And second .... no retcon. Yes, no retcon, because what they have can not be called by any mean retcon to have to grind few months for full retcon. And I do not care about their free retcon that is result of them messing completely with game.

In first 3 weeks was already on second place for fun factor after wow and before aoc, war, lotro, .... to name few ... but with next nerf It faded completely out of my sight. When there were many problems with Aoc or war at start and I stopped to play I already knew i will be some day back .... here im at least as much sure I will never be back again.

And, to not forget, they had one of the worst support ever (no matter game was new).

Yeah I'm still not sure if the dust settled from all the nerfs so decided to just stick with EVE for the time being til KOTRO comes out then maybe give that a try

Originally posted by pre_mar

I had completely different complain why i stopped to play. Game was (is) incredibly fun, fast paced, lore I love .... I do not care for 2 months of gameplay for 1 alt as I love to play and experiment all possible combinations ..... but what made me completely indiferent to game was when they for the 3rd or 4th time in one month nerfed to bottom many powers. Like no one was actually planning anything from start. Today super hero ... next morning after patch complete pussy cat. And second .... no retcon. Yes, no retcon, because what they have can not be called by any mean retcon to have to grind few months for full retcon. And I do not care about their free retcon that is result of them messing completely with game.

In first 3 weeks was already on second place for fun factor after wow and before aoc, war, lotro, .... to name few ... but with next nerf It faded completely out of my sight. When there were many problems with Aoc or war at start and I stopped to play I already knew i will be some day back .... here im at least as much sure I will never be back again.

And, to not forget, they had one of the worst support ever (no matter game was new).

How can you say there's no recon to help people after power balancing?  Care or not, a free full recon is a full recon no matter how you look at it.  Plus you don't need to grind for months now, even if they didn't hand out ones after major changes.  The economy patch not only dropped their price quite conciderably, but also greatly increased vendor trash value and drop rates  If this was launch day and the week following then ok, but since then they've handed out several recons and promptly.

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Originally posted by Death1942
because we all know Xfire is the be all and end all of MMO statistics....

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