I notice that there is a lot of hate towards Paladin classes in MMORPGs. My point of view of this, stem back to Warhammer Beta. Whenever somebody compared a Warrior-Priest to the Paladin archtype, people would yell "Go back to WoW" and other things such as "Warrior-Priest are not Healbot". Was DnD Paladin a Healbot? Was WC2 Paladin a Healbot? Was WoW's Paladin a Healbot (Yes). does all Paladin classes have to be Healbots?

When somebody mentioned the ideas of a Paladin class for Guild Wars 2, I noticed that most people hate that idea because of the name alone. Many prefer Templar class title.  Many of the same haters of the idea of a Paladin class, accept Templar class ideas, but wouldnt that be the same thing? Holy Warrior/ Holy Knight even WoW's lore has Templars

Which made me wonder,, Why do people hate Paladin Archtype so much? Everywhere I go, the hate always get dirrected to WoW. Even though "IMHO" I may Be Wrong, But WoW didnt invent the Paladin class and archtype.  I may be wrong, but still, this class is in other games, and also plays differently in those games as well, with their own unique mechanics.

As my sig shows. I like playing Paladin archtype classes. So why so much hate from the mmorpg community?

I would call Templar "IT" u have in wow. Paladins MUST be LAWFULL GOOD, rush in aid of the defenceless, NEVER raise his hand agains a weak one, and be the first to sacrifice himself in benefit of others and NOT this douchebagry spaming holy aoes u have NOT ONLY in wow but in any other mmorpg. IF U DONT HAVE CONSEQUENCES U DONT HAVE PALADINS!!!

Its outrageous for someone who roled a paladin for so long on RPGs.

Well as you said, Paladin = Warrior/priest archetype, right?  Well some people refer to Paladins being "healer in plate" or "warrior with heals" either way, Paladins will always be a hybrid type class.  And the hate, does indeed, come from WoW, because who wants to be playing a single DPS class when a Hybrid class can out DPS you?  No one.  Who wants to roll a priest when a paladin can outheal you?  You don't.  Yeah, that's where WOW comes in.

Originally posted by Kenaoshi

I would call Templar "IT" u have in wow. Paladins MUST be LAWFULL GOOD, rush in aid of the defenceless, NEVER raise his hand agains a weak one, and be the first to sacrifice himself in benefit of others and NOT this douchebagry spaming holy aoes u have NOT ONLY in wow but in any other mmorpg. IF U DONT HAVE CONSEQUENCES U DONT HAVE PALADINS!!!

Its outrageous for someone who roled a paladin for so long on RPGs.

But I have seem Warrior being reused over and over in MMORPGs, yet I dont see the same hatred towards them that Paladins get.

Also IMO, like Warriors, Paladins have different braches in the archtype.

Warriors have -Knights(paladins also have), Warlords, Berzzerkers, ext

Paladins have Knights (Warrior also have), Crusader, Templars, ext

Originally posted by Phasma

 

 

Well as you said, Paladin = Warrior/priest archetype, right?  Well some people refer to Paladins being "healer in plate" or "warrior with heals" either way, Paladins will always be a hybrid type class.  And the hate, does indeed, come from WoW, because who wants to be playing a single DPS class when a Hybrid class can out DPS you?  No one.  Who wants to roll a priest when a paladin can outheal you?  You don't.  Yeah, that's where WOW comes in.

But do Templars out DPS others in AION?

Again iam pointing out, that Paladins dont have to be similar to WoW at all.

Look at the Knight class in RoM. It is not even a healer at all.

Since when are Paladins hated in MMOs? Never heard of that.

Originally posted by Phasma

 

 

Well as you said, Paladin = Warrior/priest archetype, right?  Well some people refer to Paladins being "healer in plate" or "warrior with heals" either way, Paladins will always be a hybrid type class.  And the hate, does indeed, come from WoW, because who wants to be playing a single DPS class when a Hybrid class can out DPS you?  No one.  Who wants to roll a priest when a paladin can outheal you?  You don't.  Yeah, that's where WOW comes in.

Well that is what its become nowadays, though i wish they had kept Paladins like they had in Diablo 2... they werent these retarded healers that paladins have become, they were damage dealers who used holy/light attacks and could take a pretty good beating. D2 Zeal paladins were so fun to play, wish they would make them in new MMOs, but instead everyone just copies the WoW-type Paladin, which is annoying as hell. They really should stick to having classes serve more of a specific role, rather than having 1 class that just does everything as good as (sometimes bette rthan) any of the classes that are limited to that 1 role. If theyre going to make paladins capable of doing so much, they really need to make some adjustments to improving the capabilities of ALL classes and make them more well rounded instead of just the 1.

Hmm, I don't hate Paladins but I always found them uninteresting because I perceived AD&D 2nd Edition Paladins to be OP.  Looking back I'm not quite sure they were actually OP in that game.

I'd guess others might dislike them because they're the cheesy goody two-shoes knights, with holier than thou attitudes (and in fantasy universes, deservedly so!)

Paladins aren't (just) healbots in WOW anymore for what it's worth.  Although I think it's tragic that they (and shamans) were relegated to that in early WOW as a result of Blizzard not really having the balance bandwidth to make all roles viable in a timely fashion.

Warrior Priests (WAR) are quite a bit different than Paladins, and although I felt WAR's combat was terribly shallow the fact that they had hybrid healing classes who healed as a result of meleeing was one of WAR's big pluses for me.  That's the type of stuff I've long suggested for Shamans/Paladins in WOW.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Hmm, I don't hate Paladins but I always found them uninteresting because I perceived AD&D 2nd Edition Paladins to be OP.  Looking back I'm not quite sure they were actually OP in that game.

I'd guess others might dislike them because they're the cheesy goody two-shoes knights, with holier than thou attitudes (and in fantasy universes, deservedly so!)

Paladins aren't (just) healbots in WOW anymore for what it's worth.  Although I think it's tragic that they (and shamans) were relegated to that in early WOW as a result of Blizzard not really having the balance bandwidth to make all roles viable in a timely fashion.

Warrior Priests (WAR) are quite a bit different than Paladins, and although I felt WAR's combat was terribly shallow the fact that they had hybrid healing classes who healed as a result of meleeing was one of WAR's big pluses for me.  That's the type of stuff I've long suggested for Shamans/Paladins in WOW.

Heh, yeah WPs/DoKs were awesome in WAR, i played several of them, but never as a healbot like 99% of the people insisted on using them for. I loved speccing them for melee, and the more damage you do, the better you heal with your lifetaps. WOuld play side by side with my bro who also played a melee WP, just the 2 of us alone helping keep eachother up and focusing targets could usually charge right in and just roflstomp the entire enemy team before they could react and focus one of us enough to take us down, and even if they managed to the other always had a res ready immediately. i know we managed to piss of a lot of people who came up against us with about 90% win ratio in SCs and usually taking the top 2 spots in both dps and heals on the scoreboards.

I think it has to do with EQ. In EQ Paladins, were, and still are a complete joke. Anyone playing that class, or its counterpart the Shadowknight, were looked upon as masochist. The class is so DPS lite its considered a drain on any party.

The class is awesome in WOW. Don't know why that would cause people to hate it.

I think the funnest paladin I've played was on UO.  I hate the facet system but the new classes/races are actually kind of fun. 

*edit: not trying to sound like a fanboy ;^)*

When I think of a Paladin I think of a tank type character with some heals.

Paladin is a pretty staple RPG class. I must admit I was unaware of any hate towards it. People screaming "omg paladin go back to wow" are probably ex-WoWers with little MMO experience trying to act cool.

There already was a Warrior/Monk in GW which is the real reason people didn't want another "paladin-class" in the game. It didn't do any serious damage therefore being useless to your team, and didn't heal anyone (other than itself) - again being useless to your team. I ask you: Why would anyone attack you if you are not a threat? -There are no tanks in PvP. Warrior/Monks were played by people who wanted to play solo in a team-based game. No wonder they were hated. Only useful W/Mo in GW was a full warrior with a monk resurection skills since he'll be the last one standing anyway.

Paladins were the most difficult class to roleplay in AD&D 2nd Ed., depending on your DM they were also very hard to roll. The key was in playing them in other than the stereotypical "white knight" fashion. Got to play with some pretty good pallys back in my day although i never tried the class myself (almost always rolled chaotic neutral bards, i liked the high charisma plus i specialized in the whole drunken gambler bit) although it was one of my favorite to interact with. They were not healbots (they only had a small heal as an ability once a day, and their acces to priest spheres was restricted) but made good warriors.

Pallys in WOW are probably one of the lamest classes ive come across with in MMOs, seriously, im not sure why but the class seems to attract the worst kind of players... Although i wouldnt go as far to say they were hated. Tried rolling one once but was back in my lock within the week. They are a popular class at any rate...

I could understand perhaps their being somewhat shunned by some rpe groups if they came across too many bad players (on the other hand i imagine it must be a sought after class amongst them) but other than that cant imagine a reason.

OP classes as a general rule are not well liked so it might be that perhaps youve had some bad luck in games.

What happened to the pally in Ragnarok. That class took a LOT of skill to play , and a lot of equipment hunting too.

Sure the pally in Ragnarok had huge health ,could tank a lot and heal , but SinXs used to own it.

In fact , creators used to one hit pallys with Acid Demonstration using their own health against them...

I'm sure no one ever told an RO pally to go back to wow :P

tbh i've always hated Paladins.  I am an Assassin/rogue at heart and always play on in RPG's, MMO's and Pen and Paper.  Paladins are always loud, frustrating (why should we give our loot to the temple -_-) and too religious for my liking.  This hatred extends all gaming boundaries for me.

As for others...i guess its the fact that they get the biggest and brightest armour (usually the best looking ones, see preBC WoW for the perfect example), get the biggest swords and generally get some really OP abilities.

Nobody I know had problems with Paladins in D&D paper and pen RPG. But Paladins introduced a problem once RPG’s went online. They are fighters who heal themselves, if not balanced right they make fighters redundant. In addition to this, with MMO’s becoming far more solo play orientated this lack of balance is exposed. In the old days your fighter got healed by a healer, then MMOs went solo and the fighter is on his own and looking at the Paladin who spends little time resting between quests/mobs before the next one. This is why many get annoyed with healer/fighter classes.

I played a Paladin in WoW, level 80 to.

Everytime I killed someone they'd whisper me.

You're a Paladin, you're OP, go play a difficult class noob.

And that's when I'd start camping/laughing at them.

Yes, I'm a terrible person, and yes I love being terrible

Originally posted by Ibluerate 
<Mod Edit>

I don't like them as class and didn't liked all the time in wow since pre bc, maybe in other mmos paladins aren't that gay. Ohh and to add, i loved to see people dropping their jaws when i was beating crap outta retri palas as enhance shaman in durotar duels month ago. I always liked to play weak classes in pvp, played ele and enhance shaman in arenas in bc, continued as enhance in wotlk, i just wouldn't feel that i won if i beat hunter as dk for example. Last time i've met paladin actually 2 paladins in world pvp ended by mine win as shadow priest vs 2 retris. In few words wrong guess here dude.

pallies were hated back in EQ since launch...crap dps, originally had crap agro, stealing gear from clerics and real tanks at the same time (OOOOH it has wis.  OOOOOH that one has STR....I'm rolling for both!!!!!).  Most of the players tended to RP thier toons as arrogant shits (around others who didn't rp).  They got better when the anti-undead AA's were added and the stuns were beefed up, but the damage was done...then they started taking tanking jobs from the warriors who couldn't compete with the stun agro and how easy they made the cleric's job (hey, it's stunlocked and not hitting you, nap time).  Plus, anyone who was guilded with a paly wanted to kill them because of the epic quest they dragged thier guilds out to.   Can only stomach raising Vox and Naggy so many times :P

WoW: Palies were crap until they got the FOTM treatment in spades so they were a waste of group slots.  Now most of the hatred is towards Retribution pallies....easy mode characters with insane dps that takes 3 buttons to play (yeah, I have one, they're the easiest one button win macro ever).  Also Bliz beefed up the agro on tanking paladins which makes them seem better at agro then any other tank....they're not, the other classes actually have to work for agro :P

WoW Paladin - You get to wear whatever you want(plate after 40), got good heals, got a defense bubble so you can heal yourself back to full, can use heavy weaponry, can cast fast, many times out heal priests, out dps rogues, and out tank warriors, all at the same time. Its the ultimate class!

Originally posted by tro44_1

I notice that there is a lot of hate towards Paladin classes in MMORPGs. My point of view of this, stem back to Warhammer Beta. Whenever somebody compared a Warrior-Priest to the Paladin archtype, people would yell "Go back to WoW" and other things such as "Warrior-Priest are not Healbot". Was DnD Paladin a Healbot? Was WC2 Paladin a Healbot? Was WoW's Paladin a Healbot (Yes). does all Paladin classes have to be Healbots?

When somebody mentioned the ideas of a Paladin class for Guild Wars 2, I noticed that most people hate that idea because of the name alone. Many prefer Templar class title.  Many of the same haters of the idea of a Paladin class, accept Templar class ideas, but wouldnt that be the same thing? Holy Warrior/ Holy Knight even WoW's lore has Templars

Which made me wonder,, Why do people hate Paladin Archtype so much? Everywhere I go, the hate always get dirrected to WoW. Even though "IMHO" I may Be Wrong, But WoW didnt invent the Paladin class and archtype.  I may be wrong, but still, this class is in other games, and also plays differently in those games as well, with their own unique mechanics.

 

As my sig shows. I like playing Paladin archtype classes. So why so much hate from the mmorpg community?

I don't hate Paladins. I hate the concept that only "good" deities have them, which is the prevailing way they are implemented into games. Neutral and "evil" gods have holy champions as well. A warrior who has a great deal of faith in his/her god is a Paladin, be they "good, neutral or evil".

Originally posted by tro44_1

Which made me wonder,, Why do people hate Paladin Archtype so much? Everywhere I go, the hate always get dirrected to WoW. Even though "IMHO" I may Be Wrong, But WoW didnt invent the Paladin class and archtype.  I may be wrong, but still, this class is in other games, and also plays differently in those games as well, with their own unique mechanics.

People don't hate the archetype, they hate the NAME Paladin. Most people's only exposure to a class named Paladin is from WoW.

Paladins in WoW are hated so much because they have damage immunity spells.  While shielded, they can hearthstone somewhere safe to avoid combat or heal themselves/others.  They're one of the most hated PvP classes because of this,  they usually wait til the last second to cast their divine shield, because its instant cast, uninterruptable.  This prevents their death, lets them heal and really frustrates the opposing players that thought the paladin was going to die in the next hit.

So when you're talking about a holy warrior, don't say paladin.  The WoW paladin has alot of the features of a DnD paladin:  anti-undead, healing, special mount, aura's, lay on hands, etc.  But they also have some other features that make them stand out as an annoyance to other players in PvP,  namely damage immunity on themselves (or others).   All the hate comes from people's experience with other players who chose paladin and PvP.

 Normally I don't jump on the WoWbash wagon... but yes WoW did ruin the Paladin ideals, although when D&D went 3.0(i think around the time WotC bought them out?) when all races could have a "paladin" and the IP went downhill from there.

Ok, granted it's their IP of a paladin... it's their world they can do whatever they want. But here's the problem...

WoW = the game almost every MMO'er has played, and the minority that haven't have heard enough about it. WoW has set the bar for every class name that it uses. I stopped grouping and 5-manning when parties no longer wanted priests in favor of heal-spec'd pallys. Personally it angered me. In no way, shape or form, should a hybrid class be able to outperform or be more viable than a pure class in their specific duty. FFS even EQ got that right from the beginning. KNOW YOUR ROLE! But now that WoW has bastardized the ideas of what "class" means, from here on people will bitch about balance and being like "how it originally was, aka WoW".

Paladin is supposed to be a hybrid class of warrior and healer as far as RPG's are concerned. I mean call it whatever... templar, jiggalo, whatever... a hybrid class that combines warrior and healer, but not as good as the pure classes. The hybrid class is supposed to borrow from both pure classes and have it's own "niche" to fill with it's own unique abilities, but again not robbing from other classes their viability. The WoW Paladin has done this to the Priest.

p.s. As far as that goddamned "pally bubble of immunity"... why the fuck would a god give their champions of war and a "oh shit save me" force field? You trained to kill, so go out there and do it, or die. Give the "oh shit save me" bubble to the priests... you know... the ones who are moist and chewy in their sackcloth armor when they get aggro.