At higher levels in many MMO's, flying mounts become available.  While flying mounts help in getting around, do they somehow detract from the journey and exploration aspects of the game world?  Particularly, does the Haunted Forest, situated between where you are and where you want to go, cease to be an exciting trekking experience once you get a flying mount?

I am thinking that the coolness factor of flying mounts might be outweighted by the excitement of dangerous journeys and travel, and that maybe dev's ought to limit fast travel to horses.

Thoughts?

 flying rocks. word.

Flying is an option. If you feel it cuts down on your fun, walk...

I for one rather walk, but if you want to fly, more power to you. 

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

Flying mounts allow you to save time, the most valuable of all resources in an MMO. At higher levels you will rarely be exploring the lowbie areas anyway, and good design (eg strategically placed elite flying mobs) can keep you from abusing the feature.

Originally posted by booboofinger

Flying is an option. If you feel it cuts down on your fun, walk...

I for one rather walk, but if you want to fly, more power to you. 

Players will always lean towards the path of least resistance, but that does not mean the choice leads to more fun.  Easier "does not equal" more fun, necessarily.
 

I am thinking specifically of EQ's dreaded Kithicor Forest, which was a low level forest zone by day and a high level undead zone at night.  Kithicor had many winding roads, making it easy to make a wrong turn and get lost, all the while with time passing and night growing ever closer.  Coupled with a stiff penalty for dying, this made Kithicor a spooky atmospheric place.

Kithicor Forest made for a fun zone, even if you waited the night-time away until dawn (dawn in the game) so that you could pass safely by daylight.  Therefore, being able to fly over Kithicor would basically nullify the entire experience.

Flying adds convenience to travel, but takes away some excitement in adventuring and the sense of accomplishment of having trekked through a perilous zone.  There really was a feeling of reward, however intangible, of having made one's way across a continent in Everquest.

Also, longer treks give a sense of scale and feeling of geography that is not present in fast transit (flying or teleporting) games.

Flying mounts are a high level thing.

In other words, you've already explored the game and been through the "Haunted Forest".

flying mounts are usually given at high levels, at that point i think the player has had enough of walking through the gameworld . also, as mentioned before, a player can always unmount and walk around. actually this is what you have to do if you want to grind on the mobs. its also a nice option, as it could be annoying for the player if he/she is in a hurry but is forced to walk on dangerous territory.

What could make you feel more heroic then walking over a path that most would chose to fly and avoid all the danger?

Once again, flying is a choice, and as stated by others, usually a high level one at that. A little while back I was playing an elf in Perfect World. While all elves in that game can fly from level one, I usually chose to walk. Walking made the grind easier and I could also collect plant to do potions. Something I would miss had I flown.

In all honesty, the only times I really flew, was when I was faced with a huge expanse of creatures that were way beneath my level and would add nothing if I took them on.

Now if they made you fly it would be a different story all together. 

Originally posted by heremypet

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

See, the problem i have with what you are saying is,you do not have to use the rift ways,do you?. You can just fly by or ride by,nothing forces you to use them.Even if you do use a riftway,you still have to get to where your going in that area,sometimes that can be a long  time because VG is vast.

You make it sound like the riftways are the only way to get to certain area,well they are not. You could get to where you are going i by flying.ship or mount.

In other mmorpg you have NO choice but to zone or port..

Your point is mute...

Originally posted by billynomates

Originally posted by heremypet

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

See, the problem i have with what you are saying is,you do not have to use the rift ways,do you?. You can just fly by or ride by,nothing forces you to use them.Even if you do use a riftway,you still have to get to where your going in that area,sometimes that can be a long  time because VG is vast.

 

You make it sound like the riftways are the only way to get to certain area,well they are not. You could get to where you are going i by flying.ship or mount.

In other mmorpg you have NO choice but to zone or port..

Your point is mute...

 

 

 

My point was the design SEEMS to be self defeating, in that one feature nullifies another.  Of course, you may interpret that any way you wish.

Originally posted by heremypet

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

The Plane of Knowledge in Everquest was the kiss of death as regards world immersion.  It seemed like every street corner had a Portal Stone, and entire zones turned into ghost towns overnight.  It seemed a good idea at the time, but it did more harm than good.

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by billynomates

Originally posted by heremypet

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

See, the problem i have with what you are saying is,you do not have to use the rift ways,do you?. You can just fly by or ride by,nothing forces you to use them.Even if you do use a riftway,you still have to get to where your going in that area,sometimes that can be a long  time because VG is vast.

 

You make it sound like the riftways are the only way to get to certain area,well they are not. You could get to where you are going i by flying.ship or mount.

In other mmorpg you have NO choice but to zone or port..

Your point is mute...

 

 

 

My point was the design SEEMS to be self defeating, in that one feature nullifies another.  Of course, you may interpret that any way you wish.

I would say, given the size of Vanguard's world, that the riftways allow me to actually play. They are far enough apart that once you zone you then still need to travle. Whehter by air or by horse... er, or foot.

when I first tried Vanguard I recall wanting to go back to town to get some supplies. Then I remembered how far that was so I logged.

Granted the riftways change the game dramatically but for me they are a boon. Still, I am curious as to how long it would actually take to travel one of the continents. Might try that as an experiement for tomorrow.

1st :  it's an option to fly, you can walk if you really want to get the feel for that haunted forest

2nd : You always get flying stuff at later levels, by that time you have seen just about everything (at least once, usually more) and i highly doubt that haunted forest that amazed you at level 15 is gonna be as awesome at level 50 when you have grinded in 20+ other zones.

Flying is ok if it fits the game lore.  Flying for the sake of flying is just stupid.

Well you have a choice whether to use a flying mount...for me if your using a mount it is much faster than just walking right?

Mostly, by the time you get to the point where you get a flying mount or whatever, you're so terminally sick of walking everywhere that you want to scream.  Mostly, you've walked everywhere you're likely to walk and as the game world becomes larger and larger, spending 2 hours running somewhere for a 20 minute quest is absurd.

That's not challenge, that's tedium.

Any halfway decent game with flying tightly controls when/where you can fly.  WOW smartly limits it to the times after you've explored the majority of the land (and when they decide to switch over to flying-specific level design in the later areas.)  Aion has no-fly-zones (but this make even less sense for angelic beings than WOW's "Cold Weather Flying" explanation.)

So as with a lot of features the correct answer is "I like it when it's not implemented poorly".  Flying is fun.

Actually we should see more games iwth jetpacks.  Tribes-style jetpacks are a great combination of flight, but one where limits can exist on where you can reach with your jetpack bar.  Global Agenda has em, but it might be cool to see a MMORPG with em too.

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by billynomates

Originally posted by heremypet

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

See, the problem i have with what you are saying is,you do not have to use the rift ways,do you?. You can just fly by or ride by,nothing forces you to use them.Even if you do use a riftway,you still have to get to where your going in that area,sometimes that can be a long  time because VG is vast.

 

You make it sound like the riftways are the only way to get to certain area,well they are not. You could get to where you are going i by flying.ship or mount.

In other mmorpg you have NO choice but to zone or port..

Your point is mute...

 

 

 

My point was the design SEEMS to be self defeating, in that one feature nullifies another.  Of course, you may interpret that any way you wish.

SEEMS and is are two different things.Answer me this please..

Do YOU have to use the riftways?

Can you just fly,run,walk, by and not use them and still get to where you are going?

Are you forced to use the riftways?

I am just answering what you said and proving that you are wrong..

If you were forced to use riftways,then you would have a point,but you are not forced to use them,are you?

In AOC I Have to zone to other areas,i have no choice.In WOW i have to zone to certain areas,i have no choice..

In Vanguard i have a choice which is a good thing,not a bad thing.

Originally posted by Death1942

1st :  it's an option to fly, you can walk if you really want to get the feel for that haunted forest

2nd : You always get flying stuff at later levels, by that time you have seen just about everything (at least once, usually more) and i highly doubt that haunted forest that amazed you at level 15 is gonna be as awesome at level 50 when you have grinded in 20+ other zones.

 

 

Flying is ok if it fits the game lore.  Flying for the sake of flying is just stupid

In Vanguard you can fly from level one,you can fly anywhere in the world you want,whether you make it or not is another matter.

Originally posted by billynomates

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by billynomates

Originally posted by heremypet

Kinda like the geniuses at SoE, after having made huge scores of beautiful landscapes in VG, and epic quests for epic flying mounts, put in magical rock posts that instant warp you around the world, and rentable flying mounts everywhere that any level 1 can rent for 25 copper.  Makes you wonder if they were ashamed of the game world or mount quests, and didn't want anyone to see them.

See, the problem i have with what you are saying is,you do not have to use the rift ways,do you?. You can just fly by or ride by,nothing forces you to use them.Even if you do use a riftway,you still have to get to where your going in that area,sometimes that can be a long  time because VG is vast.

 

You make it sound like the riftways are the only way to get to certain area,well they are not. You could get to where you are going i by flying.ship or mount.

In other mmorpg you have NO choice but to zone or port..

Your point is mute...

 

 

 

My point was the design SEEMS to be self defeating, in that one feature nullifies another.  Of course, you may interpret that any way you wish.

SEEMS and is are two different things. Gee, thanks for clearing that up =P

Answer me this please.. Shoot

Do YOU have to use the riftways? Nope

Can you just fly,run,walk, by and not use them and still get to where you are going? Sure can

Are you forced to use the riftways? Nope

I am just answering what you said and proving that you are wrong.. According to you, lol

If you were forced to use riftways,then you would have a point, Wrong

but you are not forced to use them,are you? How many times are you going to repeat this?

In AOC I Have to zone to other areas,i have no choice.In WOW i have to zone to certain areas,i have no choice.. Which relates to my point how?

In Vanguard i have a choice which is a good thing,not a bad thing. Irrelevant

I'll tell you what, I'm going to make this easier on both of us and just say that I don't like riftways.  I don't like them and I'm not going to argue with you why.  I can choose to not like them regardless of any of your logic, because it is my choice to do so.  So you can have all of your rationale back, I don't want it.

Flying works in modern-day mmo's simply because it's all zone-based depending on your level. You will rarely go back to an old location. This is yet another reason i hate modern mmo's