Big BUMP.

MMORPG.com has listed Travian
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/490/view/forums/category/580

Ok MMORPG.com

Get listing

Pardus, Urban Dead, Nexus War, Farm Town, Farmville and a host of others too numerous to mention.

WTF are you thinking?

Originally posted by Gyrus

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury....

 

Oh...wait... this is a pre-trial?  Okay then...

Recently there have been several theads where the definition of an MMO has been raised.  Instancing is a contenious issue.
So, I guess it comes down to how you define an MMO?
MMORPG.com lists the following criteria
Does it meet our requirements?

1. Make sure that the game isn't already on our list. We know that this sounds simple, but there are a lot of them and sometimes they get overlooked.
2. The game should have the capability to support at least 500 congruent users on a single server. This is not a reflection of the game's current subscriber count, but rather reflects the capabilities of a game's technology.
3. The game must include some form of common area where players can interact with one another inside of the persistent game world. This excludes lobby and chat room based interaction. Exceptions are made where logical (such as sports MMOs) that still fit within the spirit of what an MMO is.
4. The game must make use of persistent characters. This means that you should be able to log in after logging out and find your character as advanced as you left them (or more).
5. The game must contain some form of advancement.

So, what do we need in order to list the game?

When submitting a game to MMORPG.com for review for our Game List, we require the following:

* A visual representation of the game
* A transparent .psd of your game's logo
* A textual overview of your game
* A professional website, name of publisher, name of developer, press contact information.
* It can also be helpful (but is not required) to provide us with a 1,000 word + developer journal introducing the MMORPG.com readers to your game. Just a general overview of what the game is about and some information about what you feel are the stand-out features of your game.

*A visual representation of the game

3-5 Screenshots: These screenshots must be in-engine, un-doctored screenshots. They must be representative of what a player would see when playing the game.

or

A Gameplay video: The short video does not have to be gameplay only, but should contain a significant and obvious example of un-altered gameplay footage

*Website Requirements

All games to be listed at MMORPG.com must have an active, professional website. The site must be completely free of pop-up ads and spyware.

In the case of an active or in-beta game, the site must also provide access to some kind of user support system including, but not limited to: developer active help / support forums, direct petition system or support contact email.

Exception:

MMORPG.com will occasionally make an exception to the above visual representation rules only if the following conditions are met:

1. User demand for the game's listing is high enough to warrant the decision (as decided by MMORPG.com staff).
2. The game is being developed by a professional, well known, registered company.
3. Personal contact has been made between MMORPG.com editorial staff and the studio in quesiton.

So, I want to play Devil's Advocate and make the case for FARM TOWN.

Should MMORPG.com list Farm Town as an MMORPG and is it an MMORPG?

1. Make sure that the game isn't already on our list. We know that this sounds simple, but there are a lot of them and sometimes they get overlooked.
Not listed.  Check.

2. The game should have the capability to support at least 500 congruent users on a single server. This is not a reflection of the game's current subscriber count, but rather reflects the capabilities of a game's technology.
March 31, 2009

Some basic stats:

* Farm Town launched on February 1st. (we did some testing in 1/31).
* Over two million monthly active users.
* We have 550K visitors per day, and we are growing about 10-20% daily.
* The game is running on 11 servers, and we are adding 1-2 per week.

http://paradivision.com/2009/05/farm-town-an-under-the-radar-facebook-social-gaming-success-story-in-the-making/
 

3. The game must include some form of common area where players can interact with one another inside of the persistent game world. This excludes lobby and chat room based interaction. Exceptions are made where logical (such as sports MMOs) that still fit within the spirit of what an MMO is.
Marketplace

A Map icon at the bottom of the main screen facilitates a trip to the marketplace, where harvested crops are sold. Other players also congregate there for the opportunity to be hired to harvest or plow, which earns coins. The marketplace is also where animals, trees, plants and all other objects can be sold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_Town
(There is also an Inn and a Real Estate Office.)
 

4. The game must make use of persistent characters. This means that you should be able to log in after logging out and find your character as advanced as you left them (or more).
Gameplay

Each user creates a personal avatar and receives a tract of land ...
As the player accumulates experience and coins, they rise to higher levels which reveal more options, permitting the purchase of more land, improvements and buildings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_Town
 

5. The game must contain some form of advancement.
See #4 above

So, what do we need in order to list the game?

When submitting a game to MMORPG.com for review for our Game List, we require the following:

* A visual representation of the game
Gallery here


* A transparent .psd of your game's logo
Top right of this image
(I am sure the Devs would happily supply a better one!)

* A textual overview of your game
The User Guide

* A professional website, name of publisher, name of developer, press contact information.
http://r1.slashkey.com/
This is a Facebook Application.  Emails are available for all this.

* It can also be helpful (but is not required) to provide us with a 1,000 word + developer journal introducing the MMORPG.com readers to your game. Just a general overview of what the game is about and some information about what you feel are the stand-out features of your game.
Not required but there is a forum here with Dev notes.

*A visual representation of the game

3-5 Screenshots: These screenshots must be in-engine, un-doctored screenshots. They must be representative of what a player would see when playing the game.
Google Images enough for you?
Results 1 - 21 of about 9,840

or

A Gameplay video: The short video does not have to be gameplay only, but should contain a significant and obvious example of un-altered gameplay footage
Type Farm Town into You Tube.

*Website Requirements

All games to be listed at MMORPG.com must have an active, professional website. The site must be completely free of pop-up ads and spyware.

In the case of an active or in-beta game, the site must also provide access to some kind of user support system including, but not limited to: developer active help / support forums, direct petition system or support contact email.
Link posted above and forum offers support

Exception:

MMORPG.com will occasionally make an exception to the above visual representation rules only if the following conditions are met:

1. User demand for the game's listing is high enough to warrant the decision (as decided by MMORPG.com staff).
Millions of users.

2. The game is being developed by a professional, well known, registered company.
Slashkey and Facebook

3. Personal contact has been made between MMORPG.com editorial staff and the studio in quesiton.
Well, based on the evidence submitted so far... I would hope so?
 

 

So, there you are.
 

Based on the evidence I would suggest that Farm Town meets MMORPG.com's requirements?

So, does this mean that Farm Town should be listed?

 

I await the case against...

 

Nodiatis, which is more along the fantasy genre of mmorpg is not listed either. I enjoy Nodiatis personally. Very fun game!

Well - they should list it now.

Travian sets the bar pretty bloody low.

Everyday I walk through the university library and see at least one or two people on the school computers playing the farm facebook game.  Its way too popular to be a mmorpg, sorry guys.

Hell, Clan Wars is listed, why not list Farm Town?

Originally posted by Gyrus

Well - they should list it now.

Travian sets the bar pretty bloody low.

Travian isn't even an RPG.  Hopefully that's the "bar" you're talking about and not the Quality bar (because apart from "Rich Get Richer" to the extreme, Travian is a well-designed game.)

Not that I have a problem with MMORPG.com listing non-RPGs (let's start getting some MMOFPS and MMORTSes mentioned!)

Also, I approve of the excessive forum necromancy happening lately.  Nothing motivates forum admins to implement anti-necromancy measures better than a bunch of expired threads constantly being dug up out of their graves. (:

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Gyrus

Well - they should list it now.

Travian sets the bar pretty bloody low.

Travian isn't even an RPG.  Hopefully that's the "bar" you're talking about and not the Quality bar (because apart from "Rich Get Richer" to the extreme, Travian is a well-designed game.)

That's what I thought too... then I played it.  Try it.  It has some serious design flaws - like the fact that there are game elements you cannot counter.  It is also possible to get 'crop locked' which means there is no move possible at all.
I would not call that well designed.

Also, I approve of the excessive forum necromancy happening lately.  Nothing motivates forum admins to implement anti-necromancy measures better than a bunch of expired threads constantly being dug up out of their graves. (:

I am the OP. I birthed it. 
It is the perfect topic considering the content.  Travian is on a similar level to Farm Town.

So as my mother used to say "I brought you into this world and so I can take you out!"  No necromancy - born again.

All I know is I played it a month or so (~3 years ago) and didn't experience that at all.  Sounds like you're nitpicking a very narrow fail condition.

Originally posted by Axehilt

All I know is I played it a month or so (~3 years ago) and didn't experience that at all.  Sounds like you're nitpicking a very narrow fail condition.

A game breaking issue (Ie an issue that brings game play to a complete halt from which you cannot continue) is not a 'narrow fail condition'.

Have a look at the official forums where players are advised to 'delete your account and start again' in response to game play.
That is not a 'narrow fail condition' either.
Try doing a search for 'defend' on the Travian Forum
One example:
http://forum.travian.com/showthread.php?t=115200&highlight=defend

I know you Axehilt, know a bit about game design?  Would you ever accept that in a game you designed?

They could address the issue... but to do so they would have to undermine the 'Plus' accounts - which they won't do.  They would rather have the money rather than a good game.  I think even the Devs know the gravy train will end so they are milking it until then.

Originally posted by johnmatthais

Hell, Clan Wars is listed, why not list Farm Town?

Oh hell, why don't they list all text base games,and board games and Classic games,flight sims games,even MUD games..And for the grand cake even throw in some Trivia/Puzzle,Card games to...For the Special bonus.Why not add Vegas games,Nudity games as well?As for the special features; add FPS Games,and all browser base games,Sports and Strategy..

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by Axehilt

All I know is I played it a month or so (~3 years ago) and didn't experience that at all.  Sounds like you're nitpicking a very narrow fail condition.

A game breaking issue (Ie an issue that brings game play to a complete halt from which you cannot continue) is not a 'narrow fail condition'.

Have a look at the official forums where players are advised to 'delete your account and start again' in response to game play.
That is not a 'narrow fail condition' either.
Try doing a search for 'defend' on the Travian Forum
One example:
http://forum.travian.com/showthread.php?t=115200&highlight=defend

I know you Axehilt, know a bit about game design?  Would you ever accept that in a game you designed?

 They could address the issue... but to do so they would have to undermine the 'Plus' accounts - which they won't do.  They would rather have the money rather than a good game.  I think even the Devs know the gravy train will end so they are milking it until then. 

Well that's the "rich get richer to the extreme" that I mentioned earlier.  It's not an ideal game by any stretch, and the 1 month I put into it is all it's getting.  But it's a fun formula despite that.  Otherwise I wouldn't keep getting suckered into the same formula game after game.  Chronologically:

• Barren Realms Elite (BBS door game with basically the exact same mechanic, around 1995.  Also Solar Realms Elite was the spaceship reskinning of it)
• Utopia (early internet version)
• Astrowars (started out as the same basic formula, but with better tech progression. Nowadays it's probably the best variant around; the devs have really done well with it.)
• Travian (much more popular than earlier incarnations)
• Freesky Online (unique art style; PVE mechanics and some other new stuff)
• ...and a smattering of ~4 others I tried, amongst the 10+ that I didn't try (after Utopia the formula started spreading a lot.)

Every single game there has the "rich get richer" problem to the extreme.  Big fish eating smaller fish in a persistent world always nosedives eventually because eventually only one guild (or nation or whatever the game calls them) will be king.  And all the other players will suffer inevitable defeat.

So yeah, that's the critical chink in these games' armor.  But despite each new game thumping me in the end, I keep coming back for each new iteration.  Overall they dish out enough fun to be worthwhile.

I still feel compelled to go back and try Astrowars a 3rd time.  Had to cut it short last time because I was moving IRL.  That last game had one of the more balanced wars I've ever had in these types of games.  Plenty of vicious fighting.  Trying to resist the urge though, the game ate up a lot of time ;)

Farm Teens

I have to say i found this thread rather intriguing in the fact that i agree with both sides of the argument made.

One Yes it is a mmo, a RPG well considering you make a avatar that represents you and that in general you could call all of facebook a rpg makes me agree with that too. I however think one thing you guys did not think about is the fact that when mmorpg was created there wasnt other types of mmos out there so face it we are in the age of mmorts games coming out.

With that said here is my simple definition of a MMO.

A game that is Made To Be Multiplayer Only or where multiplayer is the Main mode of gameplay.

So heres all the invalid arguments i saw:

3d, um there are tons of 2d games listed? and i do mean tons. 

Flash or browser based. what the hell is wrong with  that? and what about Java? hmm? Should you rule out runescape[ i honestly hate the game]  because that game has had hundreds of thousands of players at one time or another.]

Tech advances, um... sometimes i still prefer snes games to new games simply because the old games are unique and not all trying to look "real" sorry but i came to the realization that what i disliked about newer games is they all freaking look the same now and its amazingly dull.