Originally posted by Pelaaja

You have this shiny resume filled with MMOs and you fall to using WoW as a standard. There's no brains.

WoW cannot be used as a measurement, because it's the anomaly instead of normal. If you don't take my word for it, feel free to list all over 5 million subscribers MMOs there is.

If you're trying to review Aion, you have to put it into the real context which is eastern MMOs. And in that comparison it works fine.

You've already tried to belittle Aion by race count, area count,  number of quests count, is the next step the level count? Or maybe facial expressions count?

This has been said too many times on these forums and it has never worked to people like you: if you don't like the game, move on and let the sleeping dogs lie.

eeeeh? Weird. Aion designers themselves said they wanted the WoW audience and tried to copy Western design, and you can't hold WoW as a standard to Aion?..eeeh?

Aion isn't like WoW, it is true, but only because they failed to do it, not because they were trying something new, because Aion is just like WoW, only less good.

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Awww.. did I threaten the sanctity of your online paradise? 

Me so sorry!

 I feel like if the OP didn't list what games he had played, anyone who posted 'We don't care what you've played you arrogant prick' would have instead just tried to discredit his review because he didn't know what he was talking about.

The list was so that you knew this came from someone who at least knows his way around an mmo, nothing more.

Agree on all levels.  The gameplay is just not fun.  Even the graphics are not that impressive.

About half of WoW’s vanilla quest content as can be verified through aionarmory.com and wowhead.com. Few races, but about the same number of raids/dungeons total in vanilla WoW. However, it must be stated that most begin at 40+, so there is not much for the 1-30 player to see in terms of dungeon content.

1. Aionarmory is not complete
2. There are quite a few dungeons before 40. 3 require your faction to control fortresses to run them.
3. There is plenty of content you just haven't looked hard enough

Exploration (Horrible):

Although there are three degrees of freedom, the zones are generally very confined and linear. Swimming is not possible and landmass is much smaller than that of other popular games.

The landmasses are not small, and I admit 1-20 is pretty linear but once you leave Verteron the world opens up and you choose where you want to go. As you level even more options open up and I believe that is why people run out of quests. Not because there isn't enough, but rather because they refuse to explore and spend all their time in the same area.

Ironically enough, these people are the same ones to complain about lack of exploration.

Character Advancement Pace (Poor):

There will be gaps while leveling where the quests run dry (only repeatable ones remain). New skills are gained every 3 levels or so.

This is so untrue, and what drives me crazy is that people continue to spread this lie. I have gone from 1-40 with my quest log full almost constantly. I have never grinded and only break from questing to run instances or collect molars. People refuse to explore and miss out on tons of quest hubs scattered through the abyss and Heiron.
 

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Pelaaja

 

Awww.. did I threaten the sanctity of your online paradise? 

Me so sorry!

 

Wow, a new low. And here I was thinking you couldn't go lower.

You wouldn't tell why you are writing to Aion forum?

Originally posted by pepsibottle

Originally posted by Pelaaja

You have this shiny resume filled with MMOs and you fall to using WoW as a standard. There's no brains.

WoW cannot be used as a measurement, because it's the anomaly instead of normal. If you don't take my word for it, feel free to list all over 5 million subscribers MMOs there is.

If you're trying to review Aion, you have to put it into the real context which is eastern MMOs. And in that comparison it works fine.

You've already tried to belittle Aion by race count, area count,  number of quests count, is the next step the level count? Or maybe facial expressions count?

This has been said too many times on these forums and it has never worked to people like you: if you don't like the game, move on and let the sleeping dogs lie.

 

eeeeh? Weird. Aion designers themselves said they wanted the WoW audience and tried to copy Western design, and you can't hold WoW as a standard to Aion?..eeeh?

Aion isn't like WoW, it is true, but only because they failed to do it, not because they were trying something new, because Aion is just like WoW, only less good.

Can't say anything about WoW, because my experience about it is limited to two separate tries on trial account. They both lasted less than 2 hours. No offense.

What's weird is that I can't google any article about Aion designers saying they want WoW audience. But I'm sure you will back your words with a proper link.

NCSoft said they don't try to be a WoW-killer, but want the second place in western MMO-market. I don't know how you understand that statement, but to me it sounds like they mostly want those players who play other MMOs than WoW. Of course, WoW players are inevitable to join Aion (WoW players are so many).

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Wow, a new low. And here I was thinking you couldn't go lower.

You wouldn't tell why you are writing to Aion forum?

   Dear Aion Forum,

   I am sorry for revealing facts about your game that might prevent potential customers from buying it. The next time I play your piece of shit game I'll close my eyes and pretend I'm watching anime with horrible voice overs. 

   Your greatest fan,

    //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Wow, a new low. And here I was thinking you couldn't go lower.

You wouldn't tell why you are writing to Aion forum?

   Dear Aion Forum,

   I am sorry for revealing facts about your game that might prevent potential customers from buying it. The next time I play your piece of shit game I'll close my eyes and pretend I'm watching anime with horrible voice overs. 

   Your greatest fan,

    //\\//\\oo

 

You really think you revealed any facts?

I hope you don't because there was no facts in your "review". There was opinions, yes. And you're entitled to them, but don't try to feed them as facts.

But apology accepted (by me at least), and now you maybe move on to some other games forums or to the general forums? Please?

P.S. Avoid playing piece of shit games. They don't do good to your mental health.

Pretty much agree with the OP. Also the reason why I find the score in MMORPG.coms review a little over the top.

Originally posted by Pelaaja

 

You really think you revealed any facts?

I hope you don't because there was no facts in your "review". There was opinions, yes. And you're entitled to them, but don't try to feed them as facts.

But apology accepted (by me at least), and now you maybe move on to some other games forums or to the general forums? Please?

P.S. Avoid playing piece of shit games. They don't do good to your mental health.

 

 I apologized to the forum, not you. Get over yourself.

P.S. You're not the boss of me; if I want to play shitty games to torture myself and then write reviews I'll continue to do so.

P.S.S Cry more.

Okay my view on this humorous post and responses

I appreciate the Op's view of the game , I haven't played Aion yet but will be as the general consensus about it has been positive and my brothers say the game is excellent ...so thats an endorsement I place credibility in

I think if someone is giving us a review it is important they state there MMO experience so we know it's not some beginner posting .I do prefer reviews on people who have extensive experience

But Op some of your response have been overly truculent and it's just going to create comments based on emotion ...detracting from having a discussion about the true relevance of your original post

Later :)

Originally posted by thexrated

About WoW quests:

As a result, the following statistics were presented:

* Target total quests for original WoW release: 600
* Original WoW total quests: 2600
* Burning Crusade: 5300
* Wrath of the Lich King: 7650

Source: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57891

Thank you thexrated, that was exactly what I was looking for. If this is correct then it seems Moo's numbers were very inflated, that Aion was competitive with it's quest numbers though didn't have a correct balance for quest xp, according to some, and that Even LOTRO after all this time doesn't have a huge amount more.

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Sovrath

ok so let's say for argument sake that there were only 200 or so quests added since launch for 1-60 range. Do other games also release with the same 2000+ quests on either side or is your argument that Aion doesn't compare to wow?  also keep in mind that some of the wow quests are race specific. So most games will have 2000+ quests per faction, side whatever your choice over the 1000+ of Aion? If that is the case then yes, it would seem that Aion fell down quite short. Or is this just a comparison of WoW? Can I then look at LOTRO and see that LOTRO had about the same amount of quests as Aion at Launch? Or EQ 2?

So let's bring it back to the point. There are well over 1000+ quests for either side in Aion. that's still quite a bit for people to be complaining that there are no quests.

edit: It would appear, according to the LOTRO database under stats on the left, that LOTRO at this time has 2874 quests after all the updates and books. So say 1,696 quests were added over the 2 or so years that it has been out over say the Elyos side in Aion at launch. That's not really huge considering there were many books added and an expansion.

http://lotro.mmodb.com/quests/

I wonder how other games compare, even after all these years.

 

   WoW is the most played MMO in the west in all of MMO history, so to me it is the bronze standard.

 

 

You have this shiny resume filled with MMOs and you fall to using WoW as a standard. There's no brains.

WoW cannot be used as a measurement, because it's the anomaly instead of normal. If you don't take my word for it, feel free to list all over 5 million subscribers MMOs there is.

If you're trying to review Aion, you have to put it into the real context which is eastern MMOs. And in that comparison it works fine.

You've already tried to belittle Aion by race count, area count,  number of quests count, is the next step the level count? Or maybe facial expressions count?

This has been said too many times on these forums and it has never worked to people like you: if you don't like the game, move on and let the sleeping dogs lie.

Except you cannot prove that WoW is in fact an anomaly. Just because it is the only western MMO that has achieved such numbers doesn't mean that it is the anomaly and cannot be replicated or shouldn't be the standard. It could be that it is the only MMO to successfully have polish, decent mechanics, etc and will be replicated once MMO developers get their heads out of their asses and learn to design a decent MMO.

Name one MMO that came out after WoW that didn't have glaring issues? AOC had no endgame. WAR had a poorly designed endgame as well as poor performance and balance, LOTR had no PvP, Vanguard was bugged to hell and back, Tabula Rasa had no fun factor/draw, and the list goes on.

If I had to judge MMO's based on the "normal" mmo's I would have to say the genre is doomed and should be removed from the history books. The reason you judge MMO's based on WoW is because it did everything good(not great) and because of that a LOT of people have played it.

In business the best product for the price sells, so why in the world would you want to base standards on lesser products? AION is P2P and competing against WoW so you need to judge it against WoW. AION compared to WoW is like judging Ford Model T vs a 2009 Honda accord. Sure the model T runs, has a unique look, and gets you where your going but it is bare bones, rides rough, and takes awhile to get you there. Where as the Honda gets you there quicker, has all the bells and whistles to keep you comfortable, and is fuel efficient. Given the same price, unless you are a collector, you're going to buy the Accord. 

Lol, I wonder what would happen if somebody reposted the same exact review with "Absolutely No Bullshit" and just switched all the Awful to Wonderful.

I actually think I would bet upwards of $100 that over 60% of the people agreeing with this review going onto that one to bash it, and over 60% of the people bashing this one to go onto that one to support it. The war of the haters and fanbois for every single game is exactly the same. It's the same people posting the same things giving the same responses to the same problems. It's getting a little sad guys.

But, to a point. I thought the review was pretty well done, though the OP is obviously a butthurt wishful-thinker. Not to say the rest of us aern't, but either his agenda is to push people away from a game that dissapointed him personally or he's looking to get fanboys angry. I find it very difficult to believe he did it out of the kindness of his heart.

Actually, if anybody bothered to look at his posts he's an obvious troll.

/thread

P.S: Legend was terrible.

Agreed with OP.  For a game that's scored 8.7 it sucks BIG TIME.

Just to stop the quarrel about the "questnumbers" in WoW vs Aions numbers.

I. ~1000 "seasonal" copy pasta or cheaply done quest ala "talk to the box and get some cookies" mulitple times or "talk to those random guys there and get rewards" muliple times recycled.

II. cheap questsystem where every dumb step and every simple task is a whole quest bloating the number of quest 2-3 times fold, compared to Aion tidily developed questsystem

These are counted as a mission so ONE  SINGLE quest in Aion. There are even longer ones.

 1.Converse with Leto > Defeat 9 Dukaki Miners > Go back to Leto

 2.Defeat a Tursin Sentry and get its Striking Rod > Use the Striking Rod to summon Overseer Barbarti and retrieve the Odium Solvent > Put the Odium Solvent into the Cauldron > Converse with Leto

 3.Go back to Spatalos to receive your reward

These are counted as ONE SINGLE normal quest in Aion. There are even longer ones

 1. Meet NPC Gefion > Hunt Starved Mosbear and Fierce Mosbear > Meet NPC Gefion

 2.Meet NPC Skanin > Hunt Komu Silverclaw, and get Komu's Horn

 3 Meet NPC Gefion

This is a questchain in WoW which counts as FOUR UNIQUE quest. There are lots of these copy paste quest.

 1.Speak with Arch Druid Hamuul Runetotem

 1.Speak with Arch Druid Hamuul Runetotem (exactly the same quest, just different starting location)

 1.Speak with Arch Druid Hamuul Runetotem (exactly the same quest, just different starting location)

 2.Bring 20 Un'Goro Soil samples to Ghede on the Elder Rise

This is a NEW questchain from WotLK which counts as TEN UNIQUE quests.

 1.Speak with Pulroy.

 2. Speak with Zedd.

 3.Speak with Glorenfeld.

 4.Collect 10 Wyrmskull Tablets

 5.Speak with Daegarn

 6.Defeat the gladiators at the Ring of Judgement > Defeat Oluf and recover the Ancient Cipher. > Speak with Glorenfeld.

 7.Deliver Glorenfeld's Package > Speak with Beltrand McSorf

 8.Deliver McSorf's Bundle > Speak with Stanwad

 9.Speak with Walt.

 10.recover his Building Tools.

This could be reduced to 1-3 quest if it where in Aion

Now guess how WoW did achieve those large numbers of about 8000 quests? And thats after 4 years of developement and two extra paid addons.

The questnumbers in WoW are simply bloated due to their cheap developed questsystem and handling of "turn ins". But the fanboys still pound on those large numbers like they mean anything.

Atleast in Aion they did change the whole questtext, the whole plot and appearance of objectives, not just the titles when they copy paste their quests.
 
~2000 real quest vs ~8000 bloated nametags?

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

Just to stop the quarrel about the "questnumbers" in WoW vs Aions numbers.

~2000 real quest vs ~8000 bloated nametags?

  You're absolutely right: I've never heard any higher level players complain about needing to grind EVER. Aion is a purely questing game and you will never run out of quests while you level up. I sit corrected.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

Just to stop the quarrel about the "questnumbers" in WoW vs Aions numbers.

~2000 real quest vs ~8000 bloated nametags?

 

  You're absolutely right: I've never heard any higher level players complain about needing to grind EVER. Aion is a purely questing game and you will never run out of quests while you level up. I sit corrected.

 

Yes because you totally didnt miss the point of my post with your failed attempt of being ironical, which is acutally still explained in the short part of your quote.

I am talking about questnumbers and how WoW fanboys constantly start to use them as an argument even though they dont mean shit and do not prove anything nor do they add to the discussion, now you come up and talk about experience rewards vs required experience a whole different topic and imply I am in any way wrong or misslead.

Oh wait that was probably the point as you cant deny my point but still try to act like you countered me...

Originally posted by Sukiyaki

 

 

Yes because you totally didnt miss the point of my post with your failed attempt of being ironical, which is acutally still explained in the short part of your quote.

I am talking about questnumbers and how WoW fanboys constantly start to use them as an argument even though they dont mean shit and do not prove anything nor do they add to the discussion, now you come up and talk about experience rewards vs required experience a whole different topic and imply I am in any way wrong or misslead.

Oh wait that was probably the point as you cant deny my point but still try to act like you countered me...

 

   The burden of proof lies on you. Go ahead and filter out all of those quest steps if you wish, then come up with the real number of quests that WoW has, although every quest in WoW gives some experience; that isn't the case in Aion unless it's the "reward" step. 

---

Originally posted by Cammy

---

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Credentials were added to show that I have a basis of comparison as comparisons are made relative to other games in the review. 
@ Sovrath
It's a no bullshit review devoid of flowery, poignant drivel that otherwise clouds facts. It's a GAME; there's nothing compelling to be said about a VIDEO GAME. If you want to engage in debate try it in a different forum. I did my best to limit the subjective.
 @ Goob
LOL QQ MOAR UR AWFUL LOL 
 
 
 

---

 
Im not even sure why Im bothering but anyways...
 
I've played even more MMO's than you, all the way back to the UO days... ya that's right... my epeen is This |----------------------------| big! Does anyone care (I should think not...)
Sorvath's whole point was it doesn't mean a difference at all what games you have played or anyone has played. Do you know why? Because I can make an exact same review as you, post a thread about how awesome Aion is...give it a really good "score".... only it will put it into a completely different context for people reading.  Instead of "awful" - I can say its "brilliant" and there will be a bunch of people agree/disagreeing with me depending on what side of the fence you are on. Are you following at all? It doesnt make ANY difference what games I / or you have played, the ONLY thing that matters is the people who play it and like it will continue to do so, and the people who hate it should just STFU and stop talking about it. You have obviously quit - so why are you still discussing it? 

---

Reviews are an opinion, you can say whatever you like. If you don't agree with a statement then simply create a practical response without reverting to childish personal attacks. If you start getting all pissed off, then you turn a simple review into a flame thread.

Secondly, if you were checking out a brand new car, would you look for opinions on it from a person who knows jack squat about cars or someone who's been around a wide variety of cars most of his/her life? Some of you seem to not care who you get your advice from; but, it sounds like you could get suckered by a filibusterer pretty easily.

In the real world, [intelligent] people like to know if a person has a little experience or knowledge on a subject before they start feeding them a detailed analysis.
Use a little bit of reasoning before you start hacking the sense out of a post.

ace review, and good on ya for handling the hecklers who didn't know how to read your review and so told you that you wrote it wrong.

Originally posted by Distaste

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by Sovrath

ok so let's say for argument sake that there were only 200 or so quests added since launch for 1-60 range. Do other games also release with the same 2000+ quests on either side or is your argument that Aion doesn't compare to wow?  also keep in mind that some of the wow quests are race specific. So most games will have 2000+ quests per faction, side whatever your choice over the 1000+ of Aion? If that is the case then yes, it would seem that Aion fell down quite short. Or is this just a comparison of WoW? Can I then look at LOTRO and see that LOTRO had about the same amount of quests as Aion at Launch? Or EQ 2?

So let's bring it back to the point. There are well over 1000+ quests for either side in Aion. that's still quite a bit for people to be complaining that there are no quests.

edit: It would appear, according to the LOTRO database under stats on the left, that LOTRO at this time has 2874 quests after all the updates and books. So say 1,696 quests were added over the 2 or so years that it has been out over say the Elyos side in Aion at launch. That's not really huge considering there were many books added and an expansion.

http://lotro.mmodb.com/quests/

I wonder how other games compare, even after all these years.

 

   WoW is the most played MMO in the west in all of MMO history, so to me it is the bronze standard.

 

 

You have this shiny resume filled with MMOs and you fall to using WoW as a standard. There's no brains.

WoW cannot be used as a measurement, because it's the anomaly instead of normal. If you don't take my word for it, feel free to list all over 5 million subscribers MMOs there is.

If you're trying to review Aion, you have to put it into the real context which is eastern MMOs. And in that comparison it works fine.

You've already tried to belittle Aion by race count, area count,  number of quests count, is the next step the level count? Or maybe facial expressions count?

This has been said too many times on these forums and it has never worked to people like you: if you don't like the game, move on and let the sleeping dogs lie.

Except you cannot prove that WoW is in fact an anomaly.

Here is your proof

Just because it is the only western MMO that has achieved such numbers doesn't mean that it is the anomaly and cannot be replicated or shouldn't be the standard.

You can scrap the word western, because it's the only MMO ever to achieve such numbers. Can it be replicated? Only time will tell, I believe not.

It could be that it is the only MMO to successfully have polish, decent mechanics, etc and will be replicated once MMO developers get their heads out of their asses and learn to design a decent MMO.

Compare Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola. Both taste the same, are the same and are sold for equal price. Still Coca Cola sells more and is more valuable brand. The answer is the same for your statement as it is for my analogy. I don't know what it is, but maybe Pepsi Cola executives should wash their heads.

Name one MMO that came out after WoW that didn't have glaring issues? AOC had no endgame. WAR had a poorly designed endgame as well as poor performance and balance, LOTR had no PvP, Vanguard was bugged to hell and back, Tabula Rasa had no fun factor/draw, and the list goes on.

LoTRO has PvP and IMO it has a great PvP in form of PvMP. I played LoTRO for about 2 years and the last 6 months I spent in Ettenmoors playing a creep (I had 3 lvl 50 freeps, but creeps were more challenging). LoTRO would've been the one if there wasn't already a titan called WoW. AoC and WAR didn't fall to the mechanics as much as technics. They seriously underperformed technically. Can't tell about the others, so I take your word for them.

If I had to judge MMO's based on the "normal" mmo's I would have to say the genre is doomed and should be removed from the history books. The reason you judge MMO's based on WoW is because it did everything good(not great) and because of that a LOT of people have played it.

No, the genre is not doomed. It's just not for everyone. What you are saying, is that the MMORPG genre should be generalized and made for everyone. Your next paragraph explains why you say so.

In business the best product for the price sells, so why in the world would you want to base standards on lesser products? AION is P2P and competing against WoW so you need to judge it against WoW. AION compared to WoW is like judging Ford Model T vs a 2009 Honda accord. Sure the model T runs, has a unique look, and gets you where your going but it is bare bones, rides rough, and takes awhile to get you there. Where as the Honda gets you there quicker, has all the bells and whistles to keep you comfortable, and is fuel efficient. Given the same price, unless you are a collector, you're going to buy the Accord. 

If you do analogies, don't go to the extreme. It just makes your analogy look ridiculous. And since you've said your opinion about WoW, maybe I'm entitled to say mine. It's not good. It is popular, no one can deny that. I have tried to play it and failed miserably after 2 hours of playing. I know, it was too little but no it's not a game for me. So much about the opinion of over 10 million subscribers.

Aion on the other hand, hooked me instantly. Go figure.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by thexrated

About WoW quests:

As a result, the following statistics were presented:

* Target total quests for original WoW release: 600
* Original WoW total quests: 2600
* Burning Crusade: 5300
* Wrath of the Lich King: 7650

Source: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57891

 

Thank you thexrated, that was exactly what I was looking for. If this is correct then it seems Moo's numbers were very inflated, that Aion was competitive with it's quest numbers though didn't have a correct balance for quest xp, according to some, and that Even LOTRO after all this time doesn't have a huge amount more.

I will answer only from my own experience in that WoW's quest appear to guide your leveling. While leveling in WoW, you tend to get a very high portion of your xp from quests. This is not the same feeling that I get from leveling in Aion.

Edit: Just read Moo's response about only the payout part giving your exp so the feeling is right.

I hate when people create these reviews that are pretty much one sided one way or the other..

and you mental midgets are like "Oh I agree!" .. this is a crap review only people who liked it were the people who left that need to feel justified.

And BTW unless your side sucks.. you get access to plenty of dungeons 33ish+ it's not 40.