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Originally posted by Mithios
That is one of the most intelligent things I have ever heard on this site. I agree 100%. When MMORPG companies go back to having fun and stop worrying about profit, then that will be the day when they'll starting making phenominal MMORPGs again.
Go back? Which company ever spent millions of money to develop a game just to have fun? The complete opposite is true. As soon as a company makes a phenomenal MMORPG'g, they will be rewarded with all that capitalism has to offer.
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Originally posted by Plasuma!!! I do know, that's why I can't really blame them. The solution is there but in society like this it's hard to make it work. Maybe it's me being naive, but I do think that there still are some major companies out there that let their employees to be creative. I even know a company like this, and do hope for their success. |
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Originally posted by Hyanmen I do know, that's why I can't really blame them. The solution is there but in society like this it's hard to make it work. Maybe it's me being naive, but I do think that there still are some major companies out there that let their employees to be creative. I even know a company like this, and do hope for their success.
They only let their employees be creative for one reason: They believe that in the long run it will make them money. |
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Originally posted by madeux I'd word it a bit differently. The company should develop the game with having fun in mind, not getting most profit out of it. You're right though. The thing is, you don't make phenomenal MMO anymore with the way things are now; what I said above is needed for that to happen. |
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Originally posted by madeux Of course. They get the idea I've been rambling about here for months now. Let the devs be creative, and you'll have a chance at greater profits than any WoW copy ever would give them. |
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Originally posted by Hyanmen Of course. They get the idea I've been rambling about here for months now. Let the devs be creative, and you'll have a chance at greater profits than any WoW copy ever would give them. But it's not a guarantee. Companies have to balance the creativity with the tried-and-true methods that seem to be working. There's too much money involved to take any big risks. That's why change in the MMO industry will always be slow. |
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With all due respect I think some people on this thread are being very naive. Businesses are about making profit, this will always be the case no matter what business they are in (making widgets or making MMOs). Making a fun game is fine as long as it makes profit for the makers of the game. As we know everyones "definition" of fun varies, so all firms can do is try to find the most common denominators and work on those. Throw in some unique features that provide for a competitive advantage and they may make some gold. After that, keeping those initial audiences requires dilligence and staying in tune wiith the prevailing trends and attitudes of their CORE customers. Sounds simple and it is. The problem is some persons will always want the niche, and not the common denominator. Those people are usually SOL, with the amount of money needed to bring a new MMO to market, developers cannot afford to take that many chances let alone cater to the niche crowd. The ones that DO cater to the niche do so very carefully and slowly (ie: EVE Online) usually taking their time to build and develop thier strategy. They dont usually come out with the big BANG of an AION or Warhammer. They come out under the fence, slowly and as inexpensively as possible.
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Plasuma!!!
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/19/05
There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes. |
Originally posted by madeux But it's not a guarantee. Companies have to balance the creativity with the tried-and-true methods that seem to be working. There's too much money involved to take any big risks. That's why change in the MMO industry will always be slow.
This is the open-source argument. Look at it this way: let's say Microsoft hired some guy on board and all he did for 3 years was muck around and play games until ONE day. And on that day, he wrote a security patch and disappeared with his retirement package. That, you could say, was a bad investment for Microsoft.
But it's how Linux works. There's tons of those guys that do nothing for years and are on board with the community project, learning about stuff and doing what they enjoy until they finally get one idea and see it through. They disappear the next day and are never heard from again. Those ideas are always worth it.
You can't have a business model around creativity: it is unpredictable. Non-linear. |
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! But it's not a guarantee. Companies have to balance the creativity with the tried-and-true methods that seem to be working. There's too much money involved to take any big risks. That's why change in the MMO industry will always be slow.
This is the open-source argument. Look at it this way: let's say Microsoft hired some guy on board and all he did for 3 years was muck around and play games until ONE day. And on that day, he wrote a security patch and disappeared with his retirement package. That, you could say, was a bad investment for Microsoft.
But it's how Linux works. There's tons of those guys that do nothing for years and are on board with the community project, learning about stuff and doing what they enjoy until they finally get one idea and see it through. They disappear the next day and are never heard from again. Those ideas are always worth it.
You can't have a business model around creativity: it is unpredictable. Non-linear.
Google has many company policies that promote creativity. Seems to be working ok for them... |
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Originally posted by Plasuma!!! Except if it's "guaranteed" that creativity will yield results.. |
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Plasuma!!!
Elite Member
Joined: 9/19/05
There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes. |
Originally posted by madeux
This is the open-source argument. Look at it this way: let's say Microsoft hired some guy on board and all he did for 3 years was muck around and play games until ONE day. And on that day, he wrote a security patch and disappeared with his retirement package. That, you could say, was a bad investment for Microsoft.
But it's how Linux works. There's tons of those guys that do nothing for years and are on board with the community project, learning about stuff and doing what they enjoy until they finally get one idea and see it through. They disappear the next day and are never heard from again. Those ideas are always worth it.
You can't have a business model around creativity: it is unpredictable. Non-linear.
Google has many company policies that promote creativity. Seems to be working ok for them...
Yes, but they're a closed institution. They often steal their ideas from places like source forge and work on them privately, while disallowing outside help. Needless to say, they'd be doing better if they were more open source about their projects. |
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You're just asking for some asinine reply. Telling the truth and admitting that you're angry about it will only you get you flamed on the Internet, especially when you're speaking to gamers. They are pretty asinine people. Not very well known for a population of mid-high IQ. |
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Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
This is the open-source argument. Look at it this way: let's say Microsoft hired some guy on board and all he did for 3 years was muck around and play games until ONE day. And on that day, he wrote a security patch and disappeared with his retirement package. That, you could say, was a bad investment for Microsoft.
But it's how Linux works. There's tons of those guys that do nothing for years and are on board with the community project, learning about stuff and doing what they enjoy until they finally get one idea and see it through. They disappear the next day and are never heard from again. Those ideas are always worth it.
You can't have a business model around creativity: it is unpredictable. Non-linear.
Google has many company policies that promote creativity. Seems to be working ok for them...
Yes, but they're a closed institution. They often steal their ideas from places like source forge and work on them privately, while disallowing outside help. Needless to say, they'd be doing better if they were more open source about their projects. doing better? They seem to be doing pretty damn good as it is. I'll trust their judgment on how open they should be. |
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Plasuma!!!
Elite Member
Joined: 9/19/05
There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes. |
Originally posted by madeux
Google has many company policies that promote creativity. Seems to be working ok for them...
Yes, but they're a closed institution. They often steal their ideas from places like source forge and work on them privately, while disallowing outside help. Needless to say, they'd be doing better if they were more open source about their projects. doing better? They seem to be doing pretty damn good as it is. I'll trust their judgment on how open they should be.
They're doing good, but could be doing better. If their projects were open source, they'd have a greater pool of ideas to pull from and have plenty of those one-hit-wonders that miraculously solve big problems. Google is an institution. They hire people to come up with ideas and pay money to keep those ideas private.
Patents and information hoarding is what's causing this slow-down in technological advancement, believe it not. If we'd stop hiding information from people, we could get more ideas to make everything better. |
Originally posted by Hyanmen I'd rather blame capitalism, but then again, without capitalism there most likely wouldn't even be MMO's around, so I don't know. When companies stop chasing for money, they'll get more money. I hope one day they'll realize this.
What aspect of human existence ever led you to think this is true? Does the most successful restaurant chain (McDonalds) have the best food? Is the top-earning movie of all the the film with the most original plot? Are the best selling books the most creative? When has chasing artistic merit vs. cashing in EVER proven itself to be the way to cash in? Just accept that if you're after 'innovative, original game play' that the place to look is an indie game. Any creative work would stop being thought of as creative the moment most people were familiar with it, anyway.
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Originally posted by Uccisore
What aspect of human existence ever led you to think this is true? Does the most successful restaurant chain (McDonalds) have the best food? Is the top-earning movie of all the the film with the most original plot? Are the best selling books the most creative? When has chasing artistic merit vs. cashing in EVER proven itself to be the way to cash in? Just accept that if you're after 'innovative, original game play' that the place to look is an indie game. Any creative work would stop being thought of as creative the moment most people were familiar with it, anyway.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Someone else on this website capable of using their brain, my faith in humanity has been renewed.  |
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Originally posted by Uccisore
What aspect of human existence ever led you to think this is true? Does the most successful restaurant chain (McDonalds) have the best food? Is the top-earning movie of all the the film with the most original plot? Are the best selling books the most creative? When has chasing artistic merit vs. cashing in EVER proven itself to be the way to cash in? Just accept that if you're after 'innovative, original game play' that the place to look is an indie game. Any creative work would stop being thought of as creative the moment most people were familiar with it, anyway. Your point has been already proven wrong, which is why I don't need to accept it... It might be like this in other businesses, but MMO's are different. Think of it like trying to start a new fast food company to rival McDonalds, planning to take over the fast food industry by offering near the same exact food and service. It's just not going to work. |
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Originally posted by Hyanmen
What aspect of human existence ever led you to think this is true? Does the most successful restaurant chain (McDonalds) have the best food? Is the top-earning movie of all the the film with the most original plot? Are the best selling books the most creative? When has chasing artistic merit vs. cashing in EVER proven itself to be the way to cash in? Just accept that if you're after 'innovative, original game play' that the place to look is an indie game. Any creative work would stop being thought of as creative the moment most people were familiar with it, anyway. Your point has been already proven wrong, which is why I don't need to accept it... It might be like this in other businesses, but MMO's are different. Think of it like trying to start a new fast food company to rival McDonalds, planning to take over the fast food industry by offering near the same exact food and service. It's just not going to work. That's the ONLY way it's going to work. You offer everything that McDonalds has, and a few extras. Like Aion vs. WoW. |
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Originally posted by madeux Nnnope, you find a niche and use it to your advantage. |
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Originally posted by Hyanmen Nnnope, you find a niche and use it to your advantage.
If you're fine with the tiny little market share, sure. |
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I think it's funny how the OP and others mentioned being muted, accused of gold selling or being a part of it, being temporarily banned or perma banned for language or arguing, friendly or not, etc. I've been palying mmorpg s for a decade now. I've never been banned, muted, or even warned for bad behavior. I've never been falsely accused of anything either. I have friends that play that have had experiences like the OP mentioned and they have all the same excuses. Fact of the matter is, you don't break the rules, most of the time, bad things won't happen. Someone gave you a ton of plat. You knew where it came from. Unless you're stupid, which I don't think you are. You play the system, trying to find as many loopholes and shortcuts as you can. You got caught, as apparently you have many times before. |
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Originally posted by madeux
If you're fine with the tiny little market share, sure. The thing is, it's not tiny. Less than what McDonald's gets, sure, but by far more than what these copies are making. |
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Originally posted by Hyanmen
If you're fine with the tiny little market share, sure. The thing is, it's not tiny. Less than what McDonald's gets, sure, but by far more than what these copies are making. Really? Aion seems to have done rather well for itself. It's a copy. Darkfall took the niche route... how's it doing? |
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Originally posted by madeux Copies tend to do well in Korea for some reason. The western market on the other hand... Even though the game's a niche it still has to be good to success. Darkfall sucks, Aion does not. Make a good niche game and you'll see what happens. |
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Niche means only certian group is attract to your game.Watch what Star trek Online does to EvE the poster child for niche games.Being niche means off the bat you are ingore a group people who will never show interest in your game as good as it will be.Every EQ clone (wow is a EQ clone) that failed(Aoc,War,Vanguard) has one thing in common they where released to early.Both AoC and War had pop way higher than EvE it is reasonable guess if those games where more polished they would have retained alot more players and easly had higher pop than the best niche game on the market. Simple put be Burger King and Wendys,You may not beat McDonalds but you will do pretty good for self and their is plenty of room on the market for Mcdonalds clone.You could settle and be White Castle or In and Out burger and be niche.
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