Originally posted by baphometslay

Fallen Earth sucks.

 

I thought the review was a tab bit modest myself.

:D

You know the review was positive towards the game right?

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by baphometslay

Fallen Earth sucks.

 

I thought the review was a tab bit modest myself.

 

:D

You know the review was positive towards the game right?

What the hell do I know? I'm just a dumb redneck.

YEEEHAAAW

Originally posted by baphometslay

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by baphometslay

Fallen Earth sucks.

 

I thought the review was a tab bit modest myself.

 

:D

You know the review was positive towards the game right?

 

What the hell do I know? I'm just a dumb redneck.

 

YEEEHAAAW

I wasn't asking for the color of your neck.

(Yeah, comments like that is fun when it is from someone you know, or someone that you see in real life... but this is teh internets so it's just silly and feels a tab bit anti climax.)

In my mind this review simply exposes a much larger issue for Dana and MMORPG.com to solve with their "official" reviews as a whole.  What is the specific purpose of the official review at this site and do the current pieces reflect that goal?

Is the MMORPG.com review supposed to be a guide or introduction to the basic features of the game?

Is it supposed to be an objective benchmark of the game features as measured against common examples of the industry?

Is it supposed to be a subjective report of that specific reviewer's experiences within the first several hours of gameplay?

In my mind, these 3 examples aren't particularily compatible, so jamming them all into the same review piece likely won't work well.  Were authors plentiful the ideal solution would be to give every game 3 pieces (AoC has been given a similar treatment I believe) - however given the number of releases I'd suspect that's not a tenable option.

As such, a choice needs to be made and communicated clearly to the audience so they know what the intention of the piece (and all similar ones) is. 

My personal thoughts are that the "subjective impressions" style piece is not overly useful or warrented.  The internet is infested with opinion, as are these forums.  If I want subjective opinions and an aggregate "community" score - I need look no further than the user opinions section.  It takes a bit of trolling to get a good idea below all the spin and counter-spin - but it's there.

Similarly, the "guide" type of piece isn't terribly useful if that's the sum of the piece.  There is a place for it, but if the whole review simply steps through the systems involved it tends to lead to (yet another) opinion piece.

So I tend to favour the "benchmark" type of review personally.  Ideally, I would like to be able to flip to any "official" review on this site and see a common format examining common features, with the review largely focused on objective measures (if possible - i.e. Frames per second) and comparisons to other MMOs of simliar age.  Each section gets scored objectively, and the aggregate score is what is reported as the "official" rating.

It would be nice to see a summary at the very top of the article as to the main features of the game (genre, PvP available, subscription model, etc), and it probably wouldn't be out of line to have a brief summary of the reviewer's machine specs as well.

The main downside to having such reviews would be a stifling of the creativeness of the individual writer.  To compensate, perhaps the last section of the review could be a clearly labled "subjective impressions" section where the writer can go off on whatever impressions they had.  Such a section should have no bearing on the scoring of the review - but could be a useful counterpoint to the more formulaic benchmarking review.

While I don't see anything inherrently wrong with opinion based reviewing, generally they are only useful if one discovers a reviewer that shares similar tastes - and then follows that reviewer exclusively.  This is fine for professional reviewers (Roger Ebert and similar) who can generally be expected to review most of the pieces in their field - but this site generally only has one reviewer from a pool of writers on any given game.  As such, even if I found an MMORPG.com revewer I agreed with - there would be no guarentee a given game would be reviewed by that person, and so this site's review for that particular game is useless to me.

Just a few thoughts on the issues this situation brought to light in my mind.  Withdrawing the review was the right decision regardless, kudos.

Originally posted by mindw0rk

 Dana, can we now please delete your TOP 10 non WoW MMOs article and put in a better list?

Why? I've never been much of a Dana fan (i.e. I've often found myself disagreeing), but his top 10 seems spot on as far as average user ratings go and I could not be more pleased with how the FE review was handled. Way to go, Dana :-)

Originally posted by erickdefores

Actually the review wasnt harsh but the score was.  The review was also poorly writen leeding me to wonder who is proofreading the submissions on this site.

I don't agree with that point specifically.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.  A lot of people have made the same point here, and I just think it's silly.   Why is 6 of ten seen as a terrible review?  What are 1-5 for??  It seems like most of the people here want the review scale to be 8-10, and that is just absurd to me.  10 is a perfect score, so 8 and 9 are damn near perfect.  Very few people think Fallen Earth is anywhere near a perfect, so why should it get anything higher than 6 or 7?

IMO, no number of innovative features can make up for the combination of poor performance and lackluster graphics.  If I had 20 positive things to say about this game, and my one negative was that performance was terrible, I would rate the game pretty low.  None of the features matter if the game runs like crap. 

I could even understand a terrible frame-rate if the graphics were amazing... at least then it would be justified.  If other games can manage to produce stunning graphics with a smooth frame-rate, then it's reasonable to expect it, and reasonable to complain when a game doesn't produce those results.  I don't judge a game on a curve simply because it's developed by a bunch of armatures with no budget.  All i care about is how it plays, looks and runs.  If they can't compete with the big boys, that's their problem, not mine.

Again... I am not deafening the review or the reviewer.  My comments are based on my personal experience with this game.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

Originally posted by streea

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Like I said, I didn't read the review...

 

Exactly, you didn't. You, and some others who've commented here, just didn't read the review or the commetns. Instead you've made generalizations about something you don't know and cried fanboy, when you're the one being ignorant and talking out of the wrong hole.

This.

Nothing can put me off really, but ignorant loudmouthing is probably the worst, and this guy just had a HUGE dose of it... geez..

DB

 

I don't have to have read this specific review to know two things... First, reviews are subjective in nature.  And second, this game runs like shit for a lot of people.  Why do I have read this guys review to comment on those two FACTS?

 

If you read the review.. which you didn't, then you'd know that the game wasn't touted as running like "shit" for the reviewer. Secondly, if you had read the review, you would understand that an overly positive review ending in a strangely negative score doesn't add up.  Also, if you you had any sense at all you'd know that this whole thread is dedicated to a review that was retracted for a specific reason, by not reading the review you have no bearing on what that reason was, and furthermore shouldn't really chime in when you can't comment on the original situation in the first place.

 

Lastly, I commend MMORPG for their efforts.  The game is highly recommended on this site, and its clear the playerbase just wants an honest review and I applaud MMORPG for giving it another shot

 

I haven't wasted a single word defending either the review in question or the reviewer.  My comments were on the nature of reviews in general, and the performance of this game.  Since when does unplayable lag not equal shitty performance?  You are just arguing semantics because you don't want to discuss the pertinent facts. 

You are just a fallen earth fanboy (evidence in your forum signature) trying to silence the critics of this game by telling them they have no right to comment on it.  Hey, I like video games too... I have been playing the same one for a year, but I don't feel the need to fanboy for it.  I don't have to go around arguing with other people over their opinion of the game, or disputing their reported performance issues.  I don't have the time or inclination to try and "disprove" other people's perceptions.

How could I be a fanboy of a game with unplayable lag and shitty performance?  Perhaps because I don't experience the same problems.  Just because my signature, which denotes a willingness to write creative fiction based on my time in game is not derivative to my stand on the games performance or my liking of all of its features.  The game has issues.  Unplayable lag is not one that I have.  I have mentioned before in many posts that, yes, I do get lag from time to time, and it has been worse lately due to the latest patch where I do have issues in OilVille and Embry to where my FPS drops to 15 FPS when highly populated.  I don't find this unplayable.

You may have given a personal view of the nature of reviews, but to say that the score denotes the problems you perceive this game has but not basing that score on the review that was given is ludicrous.  If the overall tone of something is good but the end result is bad without an underlying reason then something doesn't add up.

Your opinion on the games performance is as subjective as is the review in question.  Its obvious not everyone has the same opinion of the games playability as you do, hence the two things you KNOW as deemed absolute are anything but. Doesn't take a fanboy to point that out.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Your opinion on the games performance is as subjective as is the review in question.  Its obvious not everyone has the same opinion of the games playability as you do.

That is my point exactly.... back at ya.  ;)  

You think 15 pfs is fine, I do not.  We probably have different favorite bands, movies, food... taste and preference are subjective.  Reviews are subjective in nature, as they are based on the opinion and experience of the reviewer.  If we wanted a list of features without the opinion of a reviewer, we could get that from the developer. If this guy was dishonest in his review, I applaud the decision to take it down.... but taking it down doesn't erase the serious problems this game faces, no matter how much the fanboys wish it would.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by erickdefores

Actually the review wasnt harsh but the score was.  The review was also poorly writen leeding me to wonder who is proofreading the submissions on this site.

 

I don't agree with that point specifically.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.  A lot of people have made the same point here, and I just think it's silly.   Why is 6 of ten seen as a terrible review?  What are 1-5 for??  It seems like most of the people here want the review scale to be 8-10, and that is just absurd to me.  10 is a perfect score, so 8 and 9 are damn near perfect.  Very few people think Fallen Earth is anywhere near a perfect, so why should it get anything higher than 6 or 7?

If you have read the review maybe you'd be more able to grasp why 6.9 was a low score.

IMO, no number of innovative features can make up for the combination of poor performance and lackluster graphics.  If I had 20 positive things to say about this game, and my one negative was that performance was terrible, I would rate the game pretty low.  None of the features matter if the game runs like crap. 

Maybe the game would have ran terrible for the reviewer aswell, but now we will never know as he did not have hardware to test it on. I would be like I fueled up my car with diesel instead of gasoline and said the car doesnt really go that well... yeah the car doesn't go well anyway... But you see, before I start to whine about the god dmn car shouldn't I use the right fuel for it first?

(I am truely sorry for using a car anology.)

I could even understand a terrible frame-rate if the graphics were amazing... at least then it would be justified.  If other games can manage to produce stunning graphics with a smooth frame-rate, then it's reasonable to expect it, and reasonable to complain when a game doesn't produce those results.  I don't judge a game on a curve simply because it's developed by a bunch of armatures with no budget.  All i care about is how it plays, looks and runs.  If they can't compete with the big boys, that's their problem, not mine.

Again... I am not deafening the review or the reviewer.  My comments are based on my personal experience with this game.

Surely you still should be able to recognise the call for a fair review? Edit: Oh, if it was up to me, I wouldn't do a re-review after all this fuzz.

Good decision to assign another person on the job. The MMORPG staff is now in a very delicate situation: the new reviewer rates the game too high? MMORPG.com loses respect. Is it too low? Same effect. Is it slightly higher? The only way this could work out with only one blue eye. I´m gessing on a 7,5. Its always politics at the end and you try to make every one happy. Too bad, this game deserves a really good and neutral review, where the text undermines the final score too.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Your opinion on the games performance is as subjective as is the review in question.  Its obvious not everyone has the same opinion of the games playability as you do.

 

That is my point exactly.... back at ya.  ;)  

You think 15 pfs is fine, I do not.  We probably have different favorite bands, movies, food... taste and preference are subjective.  Reviews are subjective in nature, as they are based on the opinion and experience of the reviewer.  If we wanted a list of features without the opinion of a reviewer, we could get that from the developer. If this guy was dishonest in his review, I applaud the decision to take it down.... but taking it down doesn't erase the serious problems this game faces, no matter how much the fanboys wish it would.

Well, to that I'll agree, as long as we all are aware that at least SOME of the perceived problems of the game are opinion..  then, rock on.

As I added my voice to the descent in the review thread, I would like to say I have absolutely no problem if the next review gives the game 6.9 again or less. I will thoroughly disagree with it and the possition it would put it on mmorpg's review list but I will accept it given the way reviews are done here.

But I would like to say I appreciate the decision to re-review without bias and with a machine that we are sure meets the minimum requirements. It was the right decision and I look forward to the outcome.

I'll say this again, the major point of contention is not that people don't like what the reviewer's opinion says, it's that the review doesn't reflect the overall score that he gave. The number, which is fairly prominently displayed as the official MMORPG rating.

If you're going to give us a score for a game, tell us WHY it achieved that score. What we've seen in this review is that the reviewer told us that Fallen Earth a mediocre game because everything in it is great except for a bit of lag in major cities when playing on an inadequate machine. Does that make any sense? How surprised would we be to find other reviews here with a great overall rating, but nothing in the actual review to back that up?

Can we get some sort of accountability for the reviewers writing for this site?

Maybe in the future, instead of just pulling the review, I would suggest having multiple reviews. Obviously the original reviewer attempted to play the game without meeting minimum system specs, which for most rational people would have explained the issues he had during his time in game.

I think having a mediocre review with comments attached to it pointing out the mistakes the reviewer made would get less backlash than pulling a review down completely. Let Jon post a note saying "Hey we screwed up on this one by not meeting certain standards, but we are going to fix our internal issues and relook it." Then let both reviews speak for themselves.

wierd, i play FE like lots of people atm, and i would give it about a 6.0.  Different setting but well, not to special.  Has about the worst gfx ive seen in mmo personally in like 3 years.  Not the worst game play though.  Every time i aproach a car or object and see the level of detail change to its final poop i cringe.   The shrubs that ar a X of 2d images lol.  But i play it cause im bored as hell.  Yes there is frame rate issues also dont let them tell you otherwise. If im on a 4 wheeler and drive in certain areas i drop to about 2 fps.  I can deal with it though, but its there. 

I wonder if icarus whined so mmorpg decided to buckle under the pressure.

The new review will have a higher score.

Oh and the review should include a comment on the laggy engine.

 Wow when was the last time this happened? 

I think for an unbiased review the next on should be done by an android!  Yes i said it, an android.  Im going to call Data right now.  He is the only hope we have right now for a unbiased review.

So when is the best ever Aion review retracted?

Or is, that one falling under contractual obligations?

yes agree it was a good idea to double check  procedures occasinonally kudos

you do need some  grade points to go along with such a review  I prefer a 1-10 scale  for such things as  graphics sound  completeness  proformance    but you must also include some endgame time whenever that is possible  as well as   some   blind ingame opinions     so as to paint as CLEAR AND ACCURITE picture as possible

I have a long list  of  FE  holes and gaps  that  I use  to check off at least some of the things I was watching

a few things still on my list...

water ditch in monkeytown water is a non interactable mass and its easy to get stuck between the sides of a ditch and the water
travel times overly long (steam train)
costume clothing / clothing toggles
crafting que
radiation barrier defined more obvious,, with rad meter clicker
vehicles need vehicle physics (jumping)
horse population gonna be a problem after release as in 100+ horses standing in oil
repeatable quests not identified
need grenage physics includes the poisons and acids
need shotgun physics not slug
shotgun damage out of wach 410 is the smallest NOT the bigest (12,20,410)
factions are wattery and have no unique contrast.
no player chat channels
no tiered clan bank security
need more player choice in crafting dyeing or other customizations like a blue mororcycle or green berret or spicy chicken (vs normal chicken)
no /follow command
no /drag command

I would have to say even though steam train and shotguns are important to me,, I would have to say the number 1 thing that needs to be addressed is the vehicle physics
 

the higher you go the more sparce and chaotic the game content

and the use of a virus diaster makes the environment unremarkable in most places you cant really tell that anything happened

I REALLY wanted to love this game  as aftermath  is very high on my theme list   but it just had too many failings and missing code ,, it really is still  a beta game  and it looks to be that whay for quite a while,

I will be glad to play once most of the  fundamental issues are addressed   but the devs dont seem to care  and just wanted to dump another money maker on the market

im in "wait and see" mode with this game.

Originally posted by adderVXI

wierd, i play FE like lots of people atm, and i would give it about a 6.0.  Different setting but well, not to special.  Has about the worst gfx ive seen in mmo personally in like 3 years.  Not the worst game play though.  Every time i aproach a car or object and see the level of detail change to its final poop i cringe.   The shrubs that ar a X of 2d images lol.  But i play it cause im bored as hell.  Yes there is frame rate issues also dont let them tell you otherwise. If im on a 4 wheeler and drive in certain areas i drop to about 2 fps.  I can deal with it though, but its there. 

Can you just either read what this topic is about rather than give a review?

This has nothing to do with the score the reviewer gave or anyone's thought's on the matter.

It is about how he went about the review and his system for reviewing the game,I tell you what forget it,if you can not even be bothered to read what you are replying to then why should I help you out.

I really respect this. Its a bold move for a gamers website to retract a review. I hope that this leads to a more unified and objective scoring system and less dependant on a reviewer's taste in gaming. Although I understand that truely objective isnt possible.

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by adderVXI

wierd, i play FE like lots of people atm, and i would give it about a 6.0.  Different setting but well, not to special.  Has about the worst gfx ive seen in mmo personally in like 3 years.  Not the worst game play though.  Every time i aproach a car or object and see the level of detail change to its final poop i cringe.   The shrubs that ar a X of 2d images lol.  But i play it cause im bored as hell.  Yes there is frame rate issues also dont let them tell you otherwise. If im on a 4 wheeler and drive in certain areas i drop to about 2 fps.  I can deal with it though, but its there. 

Can you just either read what this topic is about rather than give a review?

This has nothing to do with the score the reviewer gave or anyone's thought's on the matter.

It is about how he went about the review and his system for reviewing the game,I tell you what forget it,if you can not even be bothered to read what you are replying to then why should I help you out.

Haha, i guess my point is im not so sure he was wrong in his review.  Didnt think it was much of a strech.  Its a bad idea to retract it.  There, better? 
 

BTW i dont need any help from the likes of you, not like i was requesting it.

Obviously the review was made in error.

Those that disagree are just not that smart.

Originally posted by adderVXI

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by adderVXI

wierd, i play FE like lots of people atm, and i would give it about a 6.0.  Different setting but well, not to special.  Has about the worst gfx ive seen in mmo personally in like 3 years.  Not the worst game play though.  Every time i aproach a car or object and see the level of detail change to its final poop i cringe.   The shrubs that ar a X of 2d images lol.  But i play it cause im bored as hell.  Yes there is frame rate issues also dont let them tell you otherwise. If im on a 4 wheeler and drive in certain areas i drop to about 2 fps.  I can deal with it though, but its there. 

Can you just either read what this topic is about rather than give a review?

This has nothing to do with the score the reviewer gave or anyone's thought's on the matter.

It is about how he went about the review and his system for reviewing the game,I tell you what forget it,if you can not even be bothered to read what you are replying to then why should I help you out.

Haha, i guess my point is im not so sure he was wrong in his review.  Didnt think it was much of a strech.  Its a bad idea to retract it.  There, better? 
 

BTW i dont need any help from the likes of you, not like i was requesting it.

I'll take it you still didnt read the orginal review. The review was a good review except he had terrible lag (because he had a poor computer that didnt meet min spec) and gave it a 6.9. if you read the review you would not agree with his review just the score.

so ya you really do need help, even tho you didnt request it