I am still trying to grasp the ideal that Islam is a peaceful and loving religion, however I keep reading about honor killings, and sharia law being used as an excuse to outright kill and rape female family members and or total strangers(because the female was out walking alone without a male family member escort).   If the religion of Islam is so peaceful and loving why is it that this kind of thing is even aloud?  Why are women treated so poorly and why do the male members of this religion think this is OK? 

I've read up on this using various sources and I am just not grasping why a religion would make females so subservient and so at the mercy of males that practice the same religion, unless the founder of the religion was the biggest misogyny that ever lived.   Someone explain please.  

Oh and from what I read, true followers of Islam would never allow this sort of thing to occur.   So then why is it allowed and why do Muslims turn a blind eye to such things?   Help me understand this.

Islam has much beauty in it (I particularly love Sufism), but is in dire need of a reformation. I would highly recommend getting on board with Irshad Manji on this. She and others are doing wonderful work in trying to create an Islam that is all it was meant to be.

www.irshadmanji.com/

It's no more evil than any other deity based religions. 

Plenty of people have been killed in the name of Jesus and Allah.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

It's no more evil than any other deity based religions. 

 

Plenty of people have been killed in the name of Jesus and Allah.

And plenty of people have been killed in the name of reason and science (materialism).

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Sabiancym

It's no more evil than any other deity based religions. 

 

Plenty of people have been killed in the name of Jesus and Allah.

 

And plenty of people have been killed in the name of reason and science (materialism).

World War I and World War II were not religious based wars, and Stalin's great purges were not done because of religion, and the Khmer Rouge was killing anyone with half a brain...yes religion has brought about many wars, but not "so much:" in recent history.  

Also to point out the balcans and middle east have a very different philosophy concerning the roles of the sexes in a society, regardless of religion.

Extremists take that philosophy and modify it a bit to do their thing.

There is no such thing as a true face of any religion.

There are many interpretations of any religion. There are also christians around who mistreat their wives or do horrible things in the name of christianity.

It's one of the reasons why religion is so dangerous.

Originally posted by Gameloading

There is no such thing as a true face of any religion.

There are many interpretations of any religion. There are also christians around who mistreat their wives or do horrible things in the name of christianity.

It's one of the reasons why religion is so dangerous.

Agreed.   However, religion isn't going away any time soon and the Muslim religion is growing not shrinking so I am trying to understand why true believers in the Qur'an and the keepers of hadith do not speak up and just outright disavow the people that would twist their religion into something it is not.    Where are the voices of the mainstream Muslims who believe in the true teachings of the Qur'an and the hadith?

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Gameloading

There is no such thing as a true face of any religion.

There are many interpretations of any religion. There are also christians around who mistreat their wives or do horrible things in the name of christianity.

It's one of the reasons why religion is so dangerous.

 

Agreed.   However, religion isn't going away any time soon and the Muslim religion is growing not shrinking so I am trying to understand why true believers in the Qur'an and the keepers of hadith do not speak up and just outright disavow the people that would twist their religion into something it is not.    Where are the voices of the mainstream Muslims who believe in the true teachings of the Qur'an and the hadith?

I think your mainstream Muslim believes the same as the fanatics. There are very few who speak out aginst it.  Mr "Peace Train" himself, Cat Stevens agreed that the penality for insulting Islam was death, concerning Salmon Rushdie.

Check out some of the Muslim surveys done in the UK. The majority side with the fanatics and they live in a free democracy. 

I feel the same way about Christianity.

Originally posted by Briansho

I feel the same way about Christianity.

Maybe because you only know Obama's Christianity.

Originally posted by Vemoi

Originally posted by Briansho

I feel the same way about Christianity.

 

Maybe because you only know Obama's Christianity.

What is that even supposed to mean?  You're just looking to bash.

"Man this chicken tastes like crap."

"Probably because it's Obama's FDA"

I'm fairly sure those same Muslims see America's openness to viewing women as sexual objects, acceptance of homosexuality, abortion clinics and pig eating (which to them is pretty much the same thing as eating the homeless) as the disgracing and immoral acts, just to name a few.

Hmm ,well it was not so long ago when womem were being burnt or put to the stake for being witches.Make no mistake christianity has been a violent and bloody religion, still is in some parts of the world.

Their are fanatics in all religion,some people would do well to remember that or have some people conveniently forgotton.

Originally posted by billynomates

Hmm ,well it was not so long ago when womem were being burnt or put to the stake for being witches.Make no mistake christianity has been a violent and bloody religion, still is in some parts of the world.

Their are fanatics in all religion,some people would do well to remember that or have some people conveniently forgotton.

No I have not forgotten...40k to 100k+ were killed in medieval Europe, and that is a conservative estimate.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by billynomates

Hmm ,well it was not so long ago when womem were being burnt or put to the stake for being witches.Make no mistake christianity has been a violent and bloody religion, still is in some parts of the world.

Their are fanatics in all religion,some people would do well to remember that or have some people conveniently forgotton.

 

No I have not forgotten...40k to 100k+ were killed in medieval Europe, and that is a conservative estimate.

Medieval Europe! lol, and the other 1500 years of relentless killing in the name of the same religion.Perhaps you need to read up on your beautiful peaceful religion. I am not here saying that Islam has done no wrong but it pales in comparison.

40-100K Right,where did you get that figure from...?

Originally posted by billynomates

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by billynomates

Hmm ,well it was not so long ago when womem were being burnt or put to the stake for being witches.Make no mistake christianity has been a violent and bloody religion, still is in some parts of the world.

Their are fanatics in all religion,some people would do well to remember that or have some people conveniently forgotton.

 

No I have not forgotten...40k to 100k+ were killed in medieval Europe, and that is a conservative estimate.

Medieval Europe! lol, and the other 1500 years of relentless killing in the name of the same religion.Perhaps you need to read up on your beautiful peaceful religion. I am not here saying that Islam has done no wrong but it pales in comparison.

40-100K Right,where did you get that figure from...?

First you are assuming I am a Christian by your statement.   Second, that is only during late medieval times from a period of 1300 to 1500.   It was merely an example.   However, compared to present, witch hunts are not as prevalent today, though it does still occur in small pockets...a women as recently as 2008 was condemned to death in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft.

Originally posted by Jeffs

pig eating (which to them is pretty much the same thing as eating the homeless)

My biggest laugh of the week was...

Place: College Cafeteria
Time: Breakfast
Person: Unwitting International Muslim Student (From Iraq, I believe);
Object: Breakfast patty (pork)

Unaware it was made of pork, he began to eat the delicious patty. After a minute or so of enjoyment, student's friend (also, I believe, a Muslim) informed him of what the breakfast patty was made (I only assume this because they were speaking Arabic).

Student spit said patty all over the table, proceeds to the water fountain, gargles, spits, falls to the floor and, I assume, begins to pray sobbingly for forgiveness.

Student is threatening college because there was no sign that said "Pork Patty".

Freaking hilarious situation it was.

Teala, i strongly suggest you look at Sufism, it is the best and true form of Islam, but you are always going to have death penalties and stuff like that, we have the same basic principles as christianity when it comes to law enforcement...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism wiki link and you should look up the works of Rumi, amazing poetry...that is the true face of Islam.

According to Ahkmadinijad, its because the woman is a piece of beauty and respect.  They have to hold themselves to a higher degree of restraint and etiquette.  Its the mans role to assure they follow these decorumes.

Originally posted by murdera2k6

Teala, i strongly suggest you look at Sufism, it is the best and true form of Islam, but you are always going to have death penalties and stuff like that, we have the same basic principles as christianity when it comes to law enforcement...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism wiki link and you should look up the works of Rumi, amazing poetry...that is the true face of Islam.

I will look into it.  Thanks for the link!   ^_^

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Vemoi

Originally posted by Briansho

I feel the same way about Christianity.

 

Maybe because you only know Obama's Christianity.

 

What is that even supposed to mean?  You're just looking to bash.

 

 

"Man this chicken tastes like crap."

"Probably because it's Obama's FDA"

Haha, this coming from you.   Every time there is a religious post your there to bash it. 

Religion is always ugly when Politicians use it to push their agendas, for better or worse.  I don't think Christianity nor Islam are spared this.  I personally think Islam is a beautiful religion and what I know of it is inspiring.  I think I'm just fascinated by religion in general...I'm fascinated by lots of things heh =p

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Vemoi

Originally posted by Briansho

I feel the same way about Christianity.

 

Maybe because you only know Obama's Christianity.

 

What is that even supposed to mean?  You're just looking to bash.

 

 

"Man this chicken tastes like crap."

"Probably because it's Obama's FDA"

I think he means black liberation theology. It is essentially a blend of Marxism and Christianity.

Originally posted by billynomates

Hmm ,well it was not so long ago when womem were being burnt or put to the stake for being witches.Make no mistake christianity has been a violent and bloody religion, still is in some parts of the world.

Their are fanatics in all religion,some people would do well to remember that or have some people conveniently forgotton.

Agreed, that is why religions need reformations. I don't see anyone forgetting anything here. However if you want to start a thread about Christians burning witches, please do so.