For those of you that don't know what tower defense games are, check out Desktop Tower Defense, Flash Element TD and Gemcraft Chapter Zero.

Main Entry: strat·e·gy
Pronunciation: \-j?\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural strat·e·gies
Etymology: Greek strat?gia generalship, from strat?gos
Date: 1810

1 a (1) : the science and art of employing the political, economic, psychological, and military forces of a nation or group of nations to afford the maximum support to adopted policies in peace or war (2) : the science and art of military command exercised to meet the enemy in combat under advantageous conditions b : a variety of or instance of the use of strategy
2 a : a careful plan or method : a clever stratagem b : the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal
3 : an adaptation or complex of adaptations (as of behavior, metabolism, or structure) that serves or appears to serve an important function in achieving evolutionary success <foraging strategies of insects>

I highlighted the second definition becuase TD games are currently catagorized as strategy games. The problem is that these games require no real strategy. You know where the enemy is coming from. You know where the enemy is going. In many of these games, you know what kinds of enemies you'll be faced with. Not only that, but you get resources by killing enemies, waiting, or both which means that resource management is non-existent. So right off the bat, four fifths of your job is already taken care of. The term "puzzle strategy" comes to mind. It's a term for strategy games, or levels, where there is one, AND ONLY ONE, way to win and the player is expected to find out by trail and error.

But wait, there's more! These games are less interactive than most MMORPGs. After you place your towers, there's nothing to do until you get more money to lay down or upgrade more towers. So you might have to drag and drop a new tower every two minutes or so. The rest of the time you're just watching various mooks march to their doom. After you have the towers set up at the right points along the path, the rest of the game is just upgrading what you already haves so that the tougher lines of mooks will die just as quickly as the weaker ones did. That's right, you're main task is to maintain the status quo. Joy!!!

But you know what the worst thing about these games is? The worst part is that if I sit down to play one, I'll loose several hours of my life as though I had been abuducted by aliens. I can list of reasons why these things suck the sweat off of buffalo balls all day, but that doesn't change the fact that if I start playing one, I won't stop until long after my employer and family file a missing persons report with the authorities. These things have got to be a communist plot or work of the devil.

Someone got owned by Bloonz today?

GNP-Killers? Uh-huh.

GemCraft was my main vice. I probably played about a hundred hours until I finally beat it. After that, I lost interest rapidly. As you said - there's little in the way of alternate strategies to try.

I think this is funny, the OP goes off telling how pathetic Tower Defense games are then admits to losing hours of there life to playing them.  Sorry to say but that is what these are, they are games, games chew up the hours in your life.  I don't care if you play Pacman, Punchout, Streetfighter 2, Joust, Everquest, Wow, Eve, or one of the millions of games out there, all of them want to do one thing.  They want to give you some enjoyment for your quarter, or your monthly sub, or the purchase price of the game itself.

Tower defense games are considered RTS because there is not only 1 way to complete each level, there is stratagey involved.  Just because you can't see past the strategy that works for you doesn't mean there isn't another one out there.  Tower Defense games are just like C&C, StarCraft, Warcraft...etc, the difference is you have more options in those games vs Gemcraft chapter zero, or Defense Grid.  The computer is just as stupid in all of the above games as they are in Gemcraft or one of the other many Tower Defense games out there, they are just following the programed AI, or pattern they need to as the developer programed them.

If you don't like them then don't play them, personally I loved gemcraft, I lost many hours playing that game because I liked the little story and trying to figure out the best way to win a level.  So to myself and the 7Million who have played Gemcraft Chapter 0 disagree with you.  But you have the right to your opinion even though you play these games even after complaining about them.

You know where the enemy is coming from. You know where the enemy is going. In many of these games, you know what kinds of enemies you'll be faced with. Not only that, but you get resources by killing enemies, waiting, or both which means that resource management is non-existent. So right off the bat, four fifths of your job is already taken care of.

How's that any different from real-life military strategy?  You often know where your enemy is coming from.  You often know where your enemy is going.  Strategy is all about how you go about handling that information.

There are also very interactive TD games.  Some of the Warcraft TD games let you control a "Hero" character (or more) and use abilities similar to DOTA.  The new Southpark TD game via Xbox Live also let you control up to 4 Southpark characters and move around throwing snowballs of varying strengths and using special abilities.  Desktop Tower Defense has you constantly deconstructing and reconstructing mazes to confuse the enemies.  Gemcraft has you throwing various gem types and often combining gems as the gameplay progresses.  These are pretty active TD games.

Are turn-based strategy games less interactive because I watch what happens during my enemy's turn?  That's essentially what's happening in a TD game.  I play my turn (place towers), then I watch the enemy's turn.

the fact that you have to find to find that right placement of towers as you play is already part of forming  a strategy. as the definition stated, "devising plans". budgeting which towers you will buy or upgrade first already counts a resource management. also, imo not all TD's have one and only one way to win. i've played the same TD maps with friends and family and each one has their own effective way of taking out the enemies.

Tower defense game's are awesome why you hating doggie

AI Wars : Fleet command = love. It has elements of a tower defence game and yet you dont know where the AI is gunna strike next.

Harvest Massive Encounter = love. Is a typical tower defence game with random mob spawns and even a survival mode.

So can i suggest you change your thread title to NOT ALL TOWER DEFENSE GAMES SUCK!!!!

maybe he's just sick and tired of seeing towers over and over lol

tower defense games are one of my fave games, it's hard(sometimes) and addicting

too bad threadstarter doesn't appreciate it

Every game is a massive waste of time, I'm happy with that.

I have played a lot of tower defense games, and I can say most of them are just more of the same thing.  Spin offs like defend your castle and suck are a bit more fun.

Best tower defense game I played was one Called Onslaught.  I believe it got the tower defense game of teh year award or something.  Give that a try if you want a good one.

i have one on my G1, its pretty fun to fuk with sometimes

Originally posted by Magnum2103

You know where the enemy is coming from. You know where the enemy is going. In many of these games, you know what kinds of enemies you'll be faced with. Not only that, but you get resources by killing enemies, waiting, or both which means that resource management is non-existent. So right off the bat, four fifths of your job is already taken care of.

How's that any different from real-life military strategy?  You often know where your enemy is coming from.  You often know where your enemy is going.  Strategy is all about how you go about handling that information.

There are also very interactive TD games.  Some of the Warcraft TD games let you control a "Hero" character (or more) and use abilities similar to DOTA.  The new Southpark TD game via Xbox Live also let you control up to 4 Southpark characters and move around throwing snowballs of varying strengths and using special abilities.  Desktop Tower Defense has you constantly deconstructing and reconstructing mazes to confuse the enemies.  Gemcraft has you throwing various gem types and often combining gems as the gameplay progresses.  These are pretty active TD games.

Are turn-based strategy games less interactive because I watch what happens during my enemy's turn?  That's essentially what's happening in a TD game.  I play my turn (place towers), then I watch the enemy's turn.

link me the Warcaft TD game please :^)

I love TD games, I can’t get enough of Defence Grid, Plants Vs Zombies and Crystal defenders....I found that Defence Grid needed strategy so you can get a good high score..The placing of guns was important (and there where many types and each one had updates as well)

link me the Warcaft TD game please :^)

Warcraft III is actually one of the games where TD games originated (there were a few others before that, like in Starcraft and the occassional arcade game, but it didn't really become a popular genre till Warcraft III).  Just load up Warcraft 3 or Frozen Throne and search for a custom multiplayer game.  There should be numerous TD games going on (well, at least a few years ago there were).  Some are bad, but some are fantastic.  Most involve more interaction than your typical poorly done flash TD game.  Most are multiplayer games also.

I actually think Frozen Throne comes with 2 or 3 TD game mods by default (one is really well done).  Search under custom game somewhere.  Sorry I don't have Warcraft installed at the moment to be more specific.

I didn't find any of the TD games you can buy nearly as good as the WC3 TDs.

There are some really complex and incredibly fun wc3 maps out there (not only TDs) and you don't even have to pay for them.
  In fact in the years that I have been owning WC3 I never even once played the actual game but only "fun maps", TDs, Dota, Castle Fight and the like.

Very well worth its money due to the great people who create those maps.

Originally posted by Tenkicks

Every game is a massive waste of time, I'm happy with that.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!

BURN TENKICKS BURN!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by SgtFrog

I love TD games, I can’t get enough of Defence Grid, Plants Vs Zombies and Crystal defenders....I found that Defence Grid needed strategy so you can get a good high score..The placing of guns was important (and there where many types and each one had updates as well)

Plants vs Zombies for the win... For me tower def are one of the best types of strategy games.

I love warcraft3 tower def maps... but the new ones get repetitive and clone like.

OP: If you have played hours of Tower def and just got owned... don't blame it on the whole genre. LoL

Blasphemy! Doesn't like tower defense games? Sounds like a communist to me.

 While overall I disagree with your statements I will say that overall your post contains many valid points.

• Tower Defences do not require strategy

1. While they do not require the strategy present in most of the RTS games they do require their own little bit of pre planning especially in the better made TD games.
2. TD games that pit you up against a human player are to be honest quite fun the best example I can think of is "WinterMaul Wars" a mod on Wc3 a game where it is 3v3(Some cases 5v5) and it combinds tower defences with the income / purchase send creeps system all in all I find it a refreshing change of pase.

• Your comment on time is to be honest quite valid for most Tower Defence games.

1. I rather enjoy some of the slower Td Games the once that provide you a more lengthy amount of times are generally the ones I favor just due to the fact that I can read a book while playing, some times I even do my homework whilst enjoying a good TD game.

• Towere Defences have a cookie cutter strategy

(If you do not understand the saying I am saying their are none/very few alternatives from the best strategy)

1. While this deals with my first bullet I decided to give it a little place of its own because well this is the only point I completly agree with you in.
2. Very few TD games offer a valid PVP system such as the game I mentioned above following this most of the game is predetermined creeps in a predetermined order. While I can't complain on some of the harder maps that give my quite a challenge untill I figure out the trick to the map they are generally pretty fun however after I have conqured a TD I generally feel very let down after another play through.
3. I think if a company set out to do a randomized TD with upwards of 100 towers and units I would most likely buy it however the fact remains most of the very few purchasable TD games consist of about 10 towers and monsters and are pretty generic I think an ever changing TD game would be quite fun.

As a fan of Tower Defense games, I can see where the OP is coming from, the genre is unlike most other Strategy games in that it does not reward a high level of micro skill like more traditional RTS games, nor do most Tower Defense games have the same level of depth as turn-based strategy games. Nonetheless, I would still categorize Tower Defense games as Strategy, since they reward the same observational, planning, and critical thinking skills as other games within the Strategy genre.

It's important to remember that there are a lot of permutations of the Tower Defense style out there, as one can easily see by spending a few hours on Warcraft 3 Custom Games, with many allowing for mazing techniques and just as many focusing on the proper building of specific towers around a pre-planned and unchangable path of enemies. The mazing style Tower Defense games do, as the OP put forth, approach Puzzle games in how they reward player skills, but I believe that the non-mazing games reward traditional strategic skills more directly. Because these non-mazing Tower Defense games force the player to rely on the specific towers built, and less on the pattern in which they are built, these games reward the player for making choices that protect against all possible enemies.