I hear a lot of people saying that you have to vote. It's your duty as a citizen to vote.

I personally never understood why people make such a big deal out of being able to vote.
This article is a bit old, but it does explain how I feel about voting.

www.slate.com/id/2107240/

A more recent follow up article about the same subject

www.slate.com/id/2230819/

So, what would happen if everyone in the country read those articles and decided not to vote?

Or how about, nobody votes except the people running for office and their families?  Biggest family wins?

Here's the thing:  when it comes to voting in the Presidential General election, your single vote is very statistically insignificant.  However, there are many other opportunities to vote at different times during nearly every year, and even during the General elections, there are more offices in your district you can vote on.  And those votes DO count.  Local elections effect people more than they may think and often those elections are won by mere 10's of voters.  My dad lost a local election by 12 votes.  Another good friend of the family lost in a large county outside Houston a few years ago by less than 120 votes.  All those votes counted.

So my point is:  If you want to have your vote count, vote in the minor elections.  And hey, while you are there, you might as well cast a vote in the General Election also.

The thing is, what you describe are what if scenarios. Those aren't reality. Not everybody in the country is going to read those articles and people still vote with millions.

What if you live in Florida,  Ohio or Virginia?

Those 50/50 states are always fun to watch

It is thanks to people with this attitude in Palm Beach County, Florida that the whole planet had to suffer through the Bush administration.

I'd say voting is VERY important.

Also, the more people you have casting votes, the harder it is to "stuff the ballot box".. unless you are Diebold of course...

I voted for Ale Gore..Ale Gore won the votes from the people..But what really sucks is the Electoral college vote..That is the one that over rides the vote of the people and thats how George Bush got in.That ended me from voting ever since..

That election was won by legal manuvering.  Bush et al made it very apparent that they were willing to take the election by any means necessary, up to and including threatening the democracy of the United States by lodging political attacks in a legal arena.  Gore, being the wiser man, realized that the election was not worth the damage that the Bush (scumbags) were about to do to the nation.  I don't know if you recall, but we were starting to look like a small third world nation holding our first elections....

I have always thought there was an odd resemblance to the Judgment of Solomon... although there was no wise leader to make the right decision in the end.

If you have an issue that requires assistance from your representitive they look to see whether you are a voter or not - if you are they will do what they can.  "Glad I could help you with your problem Mr. Wickersham I hope you'll remember my fondly on election day"  *Wink*

When you put your name down on a petition and submit it - your name will only carry value if you are an active voter.

When you call your representative with a concern it doesn't become their concern unless you are a voter.

By not voting you increase the power of those that do.

By not being politically active you give your representitive no direction - how can a person represent you if you don't vote or tell them what you want?

The last two elections I voted for a 3rd party candidate as president, since I thought both of the two major choices sucked.

I have seen nothing since to convince me they did not suck.

Originally posted by Gameloading

The thing is, what you describe are what if scenarios. Those aren't reality. Not everybody in the country is going to read those articles and people still vote with millions.

I still think my last point is very valid.  I know I was posing unrealistic scenarios in the first two sentences.

I personally try to vote in every minor election.  Like mentioned earlier, that record increases my "power".  Not that I am "power hungry", but I do like to have some say in my local community.

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

I couldn't agree more.

as you say , your individual vote is unlikely to be the decider. That is not point of voting. The point is that you take the time to consider the policies that election is decided on. By taking this time to consider the policies, you get to talk about the issues and express your opinion to others, listen to theirs and then come to a conclusion. It is these discussions where the social consensus arises.

In this case, the people you care about, or choose to spend time with, will generally come to a view that would would represent them as a group.

If you do not vote, not taking part in the decision itself, then it truly does not matter what conclusions you may have come to. If you tell everyone else that they are wasting their time, that there is no value in them expressing their wants to their government then 'your' point of view will never ever be worth considering as part of developing policy.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

So you go out of your way, you spend hours in line to vote and for what? For no reason at all.

To suggest that you're not allowed to complain unless you waste your time contributing nothing at all is just absurd.

oh but i'm voting so at least i'm doing something about it

No you're not. You're not doing anything about it, you're wasting your time. Your vote has no effect on the election outcome whatsoever.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

 

So you go out of your way, you spend hours in line to vote and for what? For no reason at all.

To suggest that you're not allowed to complain unless you waste your time contributing nothing at all is just absurd.

oh but i'm voting so at least i'm doing something about it

No you're not. You're not doing anything about it, you're wasting your time. Your vote has no effect on the election outcome whatsoever.

 

But one vote is contributing.  That's what you don't seem to understand. 

I don't know why you posted this.  Because if you somehow convince a bunch of people that voting is pointless, ironically, you could remove enough votes to actually impact the outcome of an election.  Then that would completely ruin the convenient little lazy excuse you have for not going out and voting.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

 

So you go out of your way, you spend hours in line to vote and for what? For no reason at all.

To suggest that you're not allowed to complain unless you waste your time contributing nothing at all is just absurd.

oh but i'm voting so at least i'm doing something about it

No you're not. You're not doing anything about it, you're wasting your time. Your vote has no effect on the election outcome whatsoever.

 

As I've tried to explain, it may not matter in the General Election, but it certainly does locally.  Just look at that election in Minnesota where Al Franken won a Senate seat.

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

 

I couldn't agree more.

Yup!

Originally posted by Sabiancym

But one vote is contributing.  That's what you don't seem to understand. 

 

I don't know why you posted this.  Because if you somehow convince a bunch of people that voting is pointless, ironically, you could remove enough votes to actually impact the outcome of an election.  Then that would completely ruin the convenient little lazy excuse you have for not going out and voting.

 

 

Hell must have frozen over because I found something I agree with Sabiancym :)

Originally posted by daeandor

So, what would happen if everyone in the country read those articles and decided not to vote?

 

Those idiots who leech everyones money and stick their noses into everyone elses buisness wouldn't be able to say "I'm the democratically elected representative of this country".

Don't give them the moral high ground, that's what I say.

I don't want my vote to count. I want it to count against.

Who ever you vote for, the government gets in. Whoever gets in will sell you out right after they got your vote in order to get the next persons and once they are in they have a "democratic mandate" to do whatever they want to do whatever's in their own best intrests.

Party A? Party B? No thanks. Same old shit from all of them. I don't want to vote for your dad or for my old school friend. I want them all to sod off and get proper jobs.

You know what I mean, even if any of them actually offered to do things I want to see done....deep down inside we all know they aren't going to. That whats promised before an election bears little resemblance to whats delivered afterwards. Just stop wasting my time. My vote doesn't count for dick. It doesn't change dick. The lesser of two evils isn't any lesser evil, it's the exact same evil. The other side of a coin I don't want.

In my opinion every vote is a declaration that you think your political system is OK. That you approve of it. You like the way it works and want it to carry on in the same manner. Well I don't. And as long as people keep voting, they will never have to change it.

So if you like it the way it is, if you think everything is tickety boo, vote away to your hearts content.

Originally posted by Gameloading

I hear a lot of people saying that you have to vote. It's your duty as a citizen to vote.

I personally never understood why people make such a big deal out of being able to vote.
This article is a bit old, but it does explain how I feel about voting.

www.slate.com/id/2107240/

A more recent follow up article about the same subject

www.slate.com/id/2230819/

If you can't understand why you should vote, then by all means don't vote.  You probably don't have the understanding nor the concern needed in order to vote.  So stay home next time, because if your gonna post this crap, your probably voting for the wrong person anyways.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

 

So you go out of your way, you spend hours in line to vote and for what? For no reason at all.

To suggest that you're not allowed to complain unless you waste your time contributing nothing at all is just absurd.

oh but i'm voting so at least i'm doing something about it

No you're not. You're not doing anything about it, you're wasting your time. Your vote has no effect on the election outcome whatsoever.

 

Yup, this coming form the guy who said on these forums that reading books is a waste of time as well.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

Which means your ballot is totally useless. I want to vote on the issues, but I'm not allowed to.

You know what I mean? The form is right there. Right in front of every person in the country, we don't need someone "to represent us". We aren't living in 1856 anymore. We don't need some one to pass on our opinions to the parliament. The form is right there. We can all represent ourselves. Everyone at the voting station has a piece of paper which directly comunicates with government and all they can think to write on it is some peoples names?

The form is there, it could ask you to vote on all the issues you care about.... but it doesn't.

It's positively insulting the intelligence of every person in the country. We can all vote on American Idol every week, but not on anything of national importance.

We have the infrastructure to do it, but our leaders don't want us to.  Democracy mates, pap for the masses. If you buy into it, you are either on the take or a fool.

Voting is a social contract, so there's meaning only when you consider the whole of society. There's a lot of shit we could get away with that could be considered poinless, like table manners and washing our hands, but we bother with it because we realize the value in society as a whole engaged in it and the dangers of society not being engaged.

At the very least I consider voting a courtesy I pay everyone else around me.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Anyone who doesn't vote but still complains about what is decided in the elections is a moron.  Plain and simple.  You'll get no sympthy from me.

 

Don't like any of the choices on the ballot?  Vote for the least of the evils.  I know people don't like doing that, but one of them is going to get elected no matter what you do, so shouldn't it be the one that you dislike the least.  Maybe you should have supported someone else in getting on the ballot.

If you really can't vote for anybody for whatever reason, leave it blank and move on to the other issues.  There are almost always more than one thing to vote for per ballot. 

 

So you go out of your way, you spend hours in line to vote and for what? For no reason at all.

To suggest that you're not allowed to complain unless you waste your time contributing nothing at all is just absurd.

oh but i'm voting so at least i'm doing something about it

No you're not. You're not doing anything about it, you're wasting your time. Your vote has no effect on the election outcome whatsoever.

 

 

But one vote is contributing.  That's what you don't seem to understand. 

 

I don't know why you posted this.  Because if you somehow convince a bunch of people that voting is pointless, ironically, you could remove enough votes to actually impact the outcome of an election.  Then that would completely ruin the convenient little lazy excuse you have for not going out and voting.

 

 

You have seriously deluded yourself if you convinced yourself your vote is contributing.

Your vote isn't contributing whatsoever and it's not going to change the outcome in any way or form. You're not changing anything and your vote has no impact on it whatsoever.

b-b-but every little bit counts

No it doesn't. It's only the big numbers that count, your vote doesn't matter because you're not changing the outcome.

Guess what: Obama would still have won if you didn't vote. Obama would still have won if you and everybody you knew who voted for Obama didn't vote for him.

Again more illogical arguments to vote.

I could remove enough votes to actually impact the outcome of an election? No I don't. I only have an impact on the election if it is dead center 50 - 50 and the difference is 1 vote. Only then can I make a decision that effects the outcome.

Your excuse is just as bad as the "if everybody wouldn't vote? one.

I posted this to share my views with other people and to see if anybody disagrees with valid counterarguments. As you can see, nobody is able to provide a good, logical reason to waste your time and vote. The closest one was deandor when talking about local elections.

The other people either have deluded themselves their vote actually has an impact, such as yourself, or they can't find any reason at all and they just start flaming.

Originally posted by Gameloading

 

No it doesn't. It's only the big numbers that count, your vote doesn't matter because you're not changing the outcome.

What exactly do you think the "big numbers" are made up of?  They are made up of lots of individual votes.

Guess what: Obama would still have won if you didn't vote. Obama would still have won if you and everybody you knew who voted for Obama didn't vote for him.

Obama won by just over 9 million popular votes, out of approximately 208,000,000 eligible voters in the US.  That's 4.3%. If just one person out of 20 had taken your bad advice the outcome of the election could have been different.  Keep in mind also this is a fairly LARGE margin compered to other elections.

Again more illogical arguments to vote.

I would ask instead if you can provide one single logical argument for NOT voting.  Laziness does not count.

I could remove enough votes to actually impact the outcome of an election? No I don't. I only have an impact on the election if it is dead center 50 - 50 and the difference is 1 vote. Only then can I make a decision that effects the outcome.

Every person with your attitude would be a missing vote.  If a larger percentage of people think like you do the effects on elections would be massive.

Your excuse is just as bad as the "if everybody wouldn't vote? one.

This is absolutely logically sound.  What are you missing?

I posted this to share my views with other people and to see if anybody disagrees with valid counterarguments. As you can see, nobody is able to provide a good, logical reason to waste your time and vote. The closest one was deandot when talking about local elections.

I have seen nothing BUT logical reasons to vote, and as of yet I haven't seen a single logical reason NOT to vote.

The other people either have deluded themselves their vote actually has an impact, such as yourself, or they can't find any reason at all and they just start flaming.

As far as I can see, you have done the only flaming in this thread.  Everyone else has just given rational responses.