The story of the hen that lays golden eggs comes to mind.

I think the general idea is to define greed as: you want to so much right now, that you hurt your long-term profit.

You don't care any more about players satisfaction and thus for player retention, you don't care about still having suscribers/paying customers a few months down the roads, you only want to attract and have as many people as possible come right now and cought up some.

What comes to my mind is the shameful Evony. They don't care if they ruin their own reputation with their ads, don't care if players get turned off (no pun intended) as soon as they realise the in-game graphics have nothing to do with the women in the ads... All they want is to have as many hits as possible.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Let me give you an example...

Two restaurants serving burgers:

First is charging you 10$ for a good burger - they count you will be satisfied and come again , time and time again.

Second is charging 200$ - they take 20 time more money than above restaurant, and they know (and dont care) you will never come again.

 

Second restaurant would be considered greedy

 

 

 

However if someone preferred the 20$ burger over the 10$ burger, and didnt mind the extra charge for the taste they enjoy....then would the second still be considered greedy?

to OP...its all about perspective.....Your idea on a "unfinished" MMO is much different then mine and vice-versa.

Originally posted by Player_420

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Let me give you an example...

Two restaurants serving burgers:

First is charging you 10$ for a good burger - they count you will be satisfied and come again , time and time again.

Second is charging 200$ - they take 20 time more money than above restaurant, and they know (and dont care) you will never come again.

 

Second restaurant would be considered greedy

 

 

 

However if someone preferred the 20$ burger over the 10$ burger, and didnt mind the extra charge for the taste they enjoy....then would the second still be considered greedy?

If they're exploiting someone getting addicted to the 20$ burger, even though it's no better than the other one. Yes.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Let me give you an example...

Two restaurants serving burgers:

First is charging you 10$ for a good burger - they count you will be satisfied and come again , time and time again.

Second is charging 200$ - they take 20 time more money than above restaurant, and they know (and dont care) you will never come again.

 

Second restaurant would be considered greedy

 

 

I think there is a caveat here. The second restaurant would be greedy, only if this practice is going to put them out of business.

If they are in a position where this is a sustained business model because of perhaps a unique location, then they would not be greedy, just charging what the market would bear which is what every business does.

Forgot to add

The burgers are same. And location brings no advantage.

Simply as someone above allready stated.

First resturant cares about long time profit.

Second resturant wants all the money now , and probably plans to close shop as soon as their scam becomes widely known.

For me I'd say when a company sacrifices quality for extra profit then that could be considered "greedy". But of course quality is very subjective so each person's definition of greed is likely to be different.

Can't really call any devloper greedy, not even Blizzard.

Corporations exist for one purpose, to maximize their profits and increase shareholder value.

If Blizzard finds a way to charge people for various services, and the market is willing to pay it, they almost have an obligation to do so or they are viloating their public trust.

We as consumers have choices, mostly limited to don't pay for the services, and cancel and go play other games if we really don't want them.

That's what free market captitalism is all about and I don't think you can expect "charity" from a game developer.

Greed is simply overcharging players for a game simply because the company or team believes they can get away with it. Quality is subject to personal taste and players can buy what ever the hell they like. The question is, are the developers being fair with the payment options and are they doing their best to give the players what they want?

A greedy developer is a dev that bases decisions solely off financial gain instead of what is best long term.

Blizzard, imo, is not a greedy dev, because, although, they could come out with a crap ton of expansions they don't. They go at a steady pace, because they realize most gamers will not zoom through content. They don't want to piss off the majority of their players by coming out with 2-3 expansions a year, and destroying what they have.

SOE on the other hand is what I call a greedy dev. They used to come out with expansions every few months. These expansions were poorly executed, bug ridden, and a bane to most of the community. The sole reason SOE came out with expansions weren't to garner more subscribers, and build a strong game. It was solely to milk their customer base.

A corporations job is indeed to make money. There are lots of ways to go about it, though. You can make plenty of money with integrity and strong leadership, like Blizzard or CCP has. Or you can try to milk your shrinking customer base until your left with nothing, but a poor reputation.

A greedy dev is a dev that has a very poor reputation, because they have consistently shown they don't care about their product or customers.

Any businessman who tries to make money is greedy according to cheap stakes.

To me, greed occurs when a company cares more about turning a profit than the means that makes them a profit.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a profit, but if there is a point when a company glorifies the bottom line above the integrity of the product itself, that company has become greedy.

Originally posted by Shastra

Any businessman who tries to make money is greedy according to cheap stakes.

Mindless drivel. There is a distinct difference between greed and doing well, if you can not discern which is what a forum can not help you. When the main motivation of the game is to make as much money as possible in any way, form or fashion. That includes sacrificing content and/or enjoyment to squeeze more cash from the playerbase.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I often seen people claim that a developer is "greedy".

What defines greed in the MMORPG business?

How much money should a MMORPG developer be allowed to make, before he's greedy?

1% profit? 10% profit? 100%? Or should a developer try to run his business like any other business, whether it's the movies, clothing, electronics, restaurants, and make as much profit as possible?

If you go to a restaurant, they are charging you as much as possible to make as much money as they can.

They can lower the price of the menu, and will make less profit per dish, but will sell more dishes. They can raise the price of the menu, and will sell less dishes, but make more on each one.

Do you think restaurants try to set the price to make the most money possible, or they try to set the prices so they aren't "greedy"?

How is an MMORPG different from a restaurant? If they raise the subscription fee, they get more money per player, but less players. Lower the fee, more players but less profit per player. Add a subscription fee AND an item shop, they will gain some customers that like item shops, lose some customers that hate item shops. They would have to decide which one makes them more money.

Or is there some set amount of money you think a developer can make before they become "greedy"? Do you think that there are MMORPG companies out there that are deliberately TRYING NOT to make more money so they aren't greedy?

Please, I'm begging you, never make an analogy again. Dear Mother of God.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Can't really call any devloper greedy, not even Blizzard.

Corporations exist for one purpose, to maximize their profits and increase shareholder value.

If Blizzard finds a way to charge people for various services, and the market is willing to pay it, they almost have an obligation to do so or they are viloating their public trust.

We as consumers have choices, mostly limited to don't pay for the services, and cancel and go play other games if we really don't want them.

That's what free market captitalism is all about and I don't think you can expect "charity" from a game developer.

 

Free market capitalism is about controlling the market to maximize profit for those few who are already rich. People are still under the impression if you work hard and play by the rules you can make it...

Originally posted by Irishoak

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I often seen people claim that a developer is "greedy".

What defines greed in the MMORPG business?

How much money should a MMORPG developer be allowed to make, before he's greedy?

1% profit? 10% profit? 100%? Or should a developer try to run his business like any other business, whether it's the movies, clothing, electronics, restaurants, and make as much profit as possible?

If you go to a restaurant, they are charging you as much as possible to make as much money as they can.

They can lower the price of the menu, and will make less profit per dish, but will sell more dishes. They can raise the price of the menu, and will sell less dishes, but make more on each one.

Do you think restaurants try to set the price to make the most money possible, or they try to set the prices so they aren't "greedy"?

How is an MMORPG different from a restaurant? If they raise the subscription fee, they get more money per player, but less players. Lower the fee, more players but less profit per player. Add a subscription fee AND an item shop, they will gain some customers that like item shops, lose some customers that hate item shops. They would have to decide which one makes them more money.

Or is there some set amount of money you think a developer can make before they become "greedy"? Do you think that there are MMORPG companies out there that are deliberately TRYING NOT to make more money so they aren't greedy?

 

Please, I'm begging you, never make an analogy again. Dear Mother of God.

Your pleas fall on my ears like rain drops on the ocean.

A greedy developer to me is one that attempts to make more money through other, less respectful means than by providing a better product. The best example is the introduction of RMT and microtransactions into subscription based games. These developers are taking things that should normally be included with a subscription fee, removing them, and reselling them to the user at an extra cost. The developer is attempting to make more money by making the user pay more for the same product instead of trying to make more money by making a better product.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

A greedy developer to me is one that attempts to make more money through other, less respectful means than by providing a better product. The best example is the introduction of RMT and microtransactions into subscription based games. These developers are taking things that should normally be included with a subscription fee, removing them, and reselling them to the user at an extra cost. The developer is attempting to make more money by making the user pay more for the same product instead of trying to make more money by making a better product.

Why should they normally be included if some people are willing to pay for them?

Doesn't the fact that some people are willing to pay for them prove they have added value?

If players don't like this, they will leave and the developer will make less money, right?

So a smart developer would ad this if they get  more money, and not ad it if they get less  less money.

Originally posted by Irishoak

Originally posted by Kyleran

Can't really call any devloper greedy, not even Blizzard.

Corporations exist for one purpose, to maximize their profits and increase shareholder value.

If Blizzard finds a way to charge people for various services, and the market is willing to pay it, they almost have an obligation to do so or they are viloating their public trust.

We as consumers have choices, mostly limited to don't pay for the services, and cancel and go play other games if we really don't want them.

That's what free market captitalism is all about and I don't think you can expect "charity" from a game developer.

 

 

Free market capitalism is about controlling the market to maximize profit for those few who are already rich. People are still under the impression if you work hard and play by the rules you can make it...

Wait, that pretty much describes Blizzard now, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

I often seen people claim that a developer is "greedy".

What defines greed in the MMORPG business?

How much money should a MMORPG developer be allowed to make, before he's greedy?

1% profit? 10% profit? 100%? Or should a developer try to run his business like any other business, whether it's the movies, clothing, electronics, restaurants, and make as much profit as possible?

Just profit will do............................

The problem with MMO developers is that when they start designing a game, the only thing in their head is the 10 Million subscribers of WoW.

Now........any idiot knows that even 500K of players for 5-10 years is more than enough to pay for the game, give shareholders enough divident and pay for a new game..................yet no one nowadays decides to make a "QUALITY" MMO, based on a niche market, knowing already they might not reach the 1 million mark.

The big developers just make ultra generic MMO hoping to appeal to everyone but they end up boring the shit out of people, because the gameplay is so shallow.
Games like AoC and WAR sells 700K- 1 Million copies but then their subs drops to 200K or less.
That's because they are games which do not appeal to a certain playerbase therefore no playerbase will play it for long.

EQ is a 10 y/o game but still have more subs than AoC and WAR, because the game appeal the hardcore raiders which keep this game somehow still popular.

Funcom, SoE and EA/Mithyc are some of the so called greedy developers which with the illusion of achieving a target of 10 million subs, develope shit games in order to appeal the entire World player population, but failing to make their game unique enough to keep a steady number of players in the long term.

Devs needs to be more creative and they should stop listening to the marketing experts.

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Originally posted by Irishoak

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Originally posted by Shastra

Any businessman who tries to make money is greedy according to cheap stakes.

---

 
Mindless drivel. There is a distinct difference between greed and doing well, if you can not discern which is what a forum can not help you. When the main motivation of the game is to make as much money as possible in any way, form or fashion. That includes sacrificing content and/or enjoyment to squeeze more cash from the playerbase.

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And you know when is company actually doing well? and crosses into that area of 'greedy money grabbers'? are you a business man yourself? in business no profit is good profit. Everyone wants to make money and as much as they can. Considering the state of recent economy, everyone wants a secure future. So stop labeling people 'greedy'. You would do the same if given the chance.

Mindless drivel you said? spot on and ironic.

Originally posted by ste2000

EQ is a 10 y/o game but still have more subs than AoC and WAR, because the game appeal the hardcore raiders which keep this game somehow still popular.

You're mistaken. EQ is below AoC and WAR by a good margin. I'm guessing EQ is around 30-40k players, while WAR / AoC probably have at least 100k.

A lot of people left EQ after the cash shop and LoN. You can literally see that the servers have lost a ton of players.

(No, I'm not sure of these stats, and I could be off by a bit, but a lot of programs keep track of what you play and I've not seen EQ that high)