Well, I probably fall into the "pro-group" category, but I certainly find myself soloing from time to time as well.  I guess I'm a little confused about the whole argument.  Don't most games reward group encounters more than solo encounters, while still allowing solo players a challenging experience that rewards them (almost) as well?

The only "modern" MMO I've spent serious time with is EQ2 - although it's starting to age a bit.  In EQ2, you are absolutely able to solo to the level cap in that game and quite efficiently as well, but grouping will typically go faster and result in slightly better rewards.  On my way to level cap, I probably soloed three or four levels out of every ten, but the rest of the time I was grouping.  I saw (almost) all the content and had an absolute blast.  There is something for everyone.  Soloers can get some very good gear by themselves.  Groupers can get slightly better gear considering the pain it is to get a group going initially.  It really allows both playstyles.

So my question: Why is this topic brought up so much?  Are other games worse at making this possible?  Is it because end-game basically requires raiding and there's very little solo content?  I agree that's a problem, but it seems like it's a different issue entirely than the group vs. solo argument.  If anyone could enlighten me, I'd really appreciate it.

Originally posted by Vallanor

Well, I probably fall into the "pro-group" category, but I certainly find myself soloing from time to time as well.  I guess I'm a little confused about the whole argument.  Don't most games reward group encounters more than solo encounters, while still allowing solo players a challenging experience that rewards them (almost) as well?

The only "modern" MMO I've spent serious time with is EQ2 - although it's starting to age a bit.  In EQ2, you are absolutely able to solo to the level cap in that game and quite efficiently as well, but grouping will typically go faster and result in slightly better rewards.  On my way to level cap, I probably soloed three or four levels out of every ten, but the rest of the time I was grouping.  I saw (almost) all the content and had an absolute blast.  There is something for everyone.  Soloers can get some very good gear by themselves.  Groupers can get slightly better gear considering the pain it is to get a group going initially.  It really allows both playstyles.

So my question: Why is this topic brought up so much?  Are other games worse at making this possible?  Is it because end-game basically requires raiding and there's very little solo content?  I agree that's a problem, but it seems like it's a different issue entirely than the group vs. solo argument.  If anyone could enlighten me, I'd really appreciate it.

Not according to the OP.  In the OP's humble opinion, you MUST screw the solo player by making the effort at least 4x as long to get to the end of the journey as the group player.  Anything less, is just catering to the solo player for anti group experience.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

 

This is like trying to convince me my favorite color is blue, not green.

You are advocating a solo friendly game. Of course you believe my group efforts in a game like WoW, pre raid, are already adequately rewarded. I would expect you to think so.

I disagree. But it is not an objective argument either of us can win. It is a preference.

I understand you like the set up in WoW and think that's fair. I'm glad there are games like WoW which you can play that are solo friendly.

I think the set up in WoW does not adequately compensate group play. I would like a game that I enjoy, just as you enjoy your solo friendly game. I would not try to convince you to play it, any more than I would try to convince you what your favorite color is.

 

You already stated buried in your OP, your true intentions.  Like it or not, you said SCREW the solo player.  Your words, "On my server, solo play will be a long hard difficult struggle, at least 4x longer than taking on the content in a group."  So you see, you are not for happy players for all.  You already admitted, SCREW the solo play.

 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.  There are plenty of good single player games if you want to solo.  But don't get me wrong, I know there are time when one needs to solo, just for variety's sake or because there aren't too many players or parties going on due to time zone factors.

Edit:  I guess another reason is that players may want to farm for crafting materials and such, and in some cases that can slow down a party...  I think those would be my only legitimate reasons for solo'ing (along with my other reasons as stated above.

Originally posted by hidden1 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.

 

For the sane, yes. However, hermits and sociopaths seem to be flocking to these games now.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by hidden1 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.

 

For the sane, yes.

For some, and it has nothing to do with sanity. I play to play with "people" to, but those people are people I know in person. I have no interest in playing with you or the next random guy.

MMOs offer a different experience for everybody, those experiences might not always include other people being part of their interest.

Originally posted by hidden1

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

 

This is like trying to convince me my favorite color is blue, not green.

You are advocating a solo friendly game. Of course you believe my group efforts in a game like WoW, pre raid, are already adequately rewarded. I would expect you to think so.

I disagree. But it is not an objective argument either of us can win. It is a preference.

I understand you like the set up in WoW and think that's fair. I'm glad there are games like WoW which you can play that are solo friendly.

I think the set up in WoW does not adequately compensate group play. I would like a game that I enjoy, just as you enjoy your solo friendly game. I would not try to convince you to play it, any more than I would try to convince you what your favorite color is.

 

You already stated buried in your OP, your true intentions.  Like it or not, you said SCREW the solo player.  Your words, "On my server, solo play will be a long hard difficult struggle, at least 4x longer than taking on the content in a group."  So you see, you are not for happy players for all.  You already admitted, SCREW the solo play.

 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.  There are plenty of good single player games if you want to solo.  But don't get me wrong, I know there are time when one needs to solo, just for variety's sake or because there aren't too many players or parties going on due to time zone factors.

I don't disagree.  I love solo, group, pvp, and raid content.  I've been playing MMORPGs for 15 years.  My whole point is why does the group player have to have a signficant advantage of accomplishing goals at least 4x faster than the solo player?  Why the need to stomp down on anyone?  We all pay the same $15 a month so we should all be able to enjoy the game equally.  Most MMORPGs do a great job of rewarding the groupers much more than the solo players anyway.  Why Imo is wanting to make the solo player a second class player or more likely out of the game, I simply don't understand.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by hidden1 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.

 

For the sane, yes.

For some, and it has nothing to do with sanity. I play to play with "people" to, but those people are people I know in person. I have no interest in playing with you or the next random guy.

MMOs offer a different experience for everybody, those experiences might not always include other people being part of their interest.

Well unfortunately some of us don't have people we know in person that like mmo's.  I have to make due with in-game party friends.  The process can be tedious, but I usually right down the names of players who I thought were good party players vs. reckless party wipers.  So I guess some of us have no choice but to choose to play "the next random guy" as you put.
 

Originally posted by hidden1

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by hidden1 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.

 

For the sane, yes.

For some, and it has nothing to do with sanity. I play to play with "people" to, but those people are people I know in person. I have no interest in playing with you or the next random guy.

MMOs offer a different experience for everybody, those experiences might not always include other people being part of their interest.

Well unfortunately some of us don't have people we know in person that like mmo's.  I have to make due with in-game party friends.  The process can be tedious, but I usually right down the names of players who I thought were good party players vs. reckless party wipers.  So I guess some of us have no choice but to choose to play "the next random guy" as you put.
 

It is indeed unfortunate and I consider it a luxury, but my point is, people that prefer to solo have no mental sickness. I understand you have no other option to choose that random guy. And to be honest even if none of my friends played the same game, I still would not group with the next random guy. So that would still make me a solo player, and I'm quite sane.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

 

This is like trying to convince me my favorite color is blue, not green.

You are advocating a solo friendly game. Of course you believe my group efforts in a game like WoW, pre raid, are already adequately rewarded. I would expect you to think so.

I disagree. But it is not an objective argument either of us can win. It is a preference.

I understand you like the set up in WoW and think that's fair. I'm glad there are games like WoW which you can play that are solo friendly.

I think the set up in WoW does not adequately compensate group play. I would like a game that I enjoy, just as you enjoy your solo friendly game. I would not try to convince you to play it, any more than I would try to convince you what your favorite color is.

 

You already stated buried in your OP, your true intentions.  Like it or not, you said SCREW the solo player.  Your words, "On my server, solo play will be a long hard difficult struggle, at least 4x longer than taking on the content in a group."  So you see, you are not for happy players for all.  You already admitted, SCREW the solo play.

 

This does not "screw" the solo player in any way.

It makes the rewards in the game equal.

The solo player is constantly in combat. The group player is constantly trying to organize a group, which doesn't earn xp.

The group player will in essence be playing the game just as long as the solo player, but one will spend more time on combat than the other to reach the same gear and levels.

I'll play 4 hours, one of which is solid making xp, the other three wasting time doing things groups do.

you'll play 4 hours making xp.

We arrive at the same level.

I'll get a group, waste a bunch of time doing it, and wack one mob with that group and make 400 xp.

you'll be in no group, waste no time, and wack 4 mobs for 100 each. I spent time talking and coordinating, then got a big xp haul. You spend the whole time hauling in xp.

Won't be exact, but something like that.

How does that "screw" you?

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by hidden1

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

 

This is like trying to convince me my favorite color is blue, not green.

You are advocating a solo friendly game. Of course you believe my group efforts in a game like WoW, pre raid, are already adequately rewarded. I would expect you to think so.

I disagree. But it is not an objective argument either of us can win. It is a preference.

I understand you like the set up in WoW and think that's fair. I'm glad there are games like WoW which you can play that are solo friendly.

I think the set up in WoW does not adequately compensate group play. I would like a game that I enjoy, just as you enjoy your solo friendly game. I would not try to convince you to play it, any more than I would try to convince you what your favorite color is.

 

You already stated buried in your OP, your true intentions.  Like it or not, you said SCREW the solo player.  Your words, "On my server, solo play will be a long hard difficult struggle, at least 4x longer than taking on the content in a group."  So you see, you are not for happy players for all.  You already admitted, SCREW the solo play.

 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.  There are plenty of good single player games if you want to solo.  But don't get me wrong, I know there are time when one needs to solo, just for variety's sake or because there aren't too many players or parties going on due to time zone factors.

 

I don't disagree.  I love solo, group, pvp, and raid content.  I've been playing MMORPGs for 15 years.  My whole point is why does the group player have to have a signficant advantage of accomplishing goals at least 4x faster than the solo player?  Why the need to stomp down on anyone?  We all pay the same $15 a month so we should all be able to enjoy the game equally.  Most MMORPGs do a great job of rewarding the groupers much more than the solo players anyway.  Why Imo is wanting to make the solo player a second class player or more likely out of the game, I simply don't understand.

 

How does compensating the group player for time to organize a group stomp anyone?

How are you second class in any way?

I will play the game for four hours, and one hour I'll make xp, 3 hours I'll spend time doing other things organizing groups.

You'll make xp for four hours.

How does that make you second class? you get to do what you like, I get to do what I like, and after four hours we are equal.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

This does not "screw" the solo player in any way.

It makes the rewards in the game equal.

The solo player is constantly in combat. The group player is constantly trying to organize a group, which doesn't earn xp.

The group player will in essence be playing the game just as long as the solo player, but one will spend more time on combat than the other to reach the same gear and levels.

I'll play 4 hours, one of which is solid making xp, the other three wasting time doing things groups do.

you'll play 4 hours making xp.

We arrive at the same level.

I'll get a group, waste a bunch of time doing it, and wack one mob with that group and make 400 xp.

you'll be in no group, waste no time, and wack 4 mobs for 100 each. I spent time talking and coordinating, then got a big xp haul. You spend the whole time hauling in xp.

Won't be exact, but something like that.

How does that "screw" you?

Are you serious?

Your contention is that a 4 hour group play session results in 1 hour of XPing and 3 hours of "group stuff" .. ?

What the hell are you doing for those 3 hours?

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by hidden1

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by hidden1 

Had to add my 2 cents here... but I thought the major reason to play in a "massive 'MULTIPLAYER' online role playing game"
 

is to play with other players.

 

For the sane, yes.

For some, and it has nothing to do with sanity. I play to play with "people" to, but those people are people I know in person. I have no interest in playing with you or the next random guy.

MMOs offer a different experience for everybody, those experiences might not always include other people being part of their interest.

Well unfortunately some of us don't have people we know in person that like mmo's.  I have to make due with in-game party friends.  The process can be tedious, but I usually right down the names of players who I thought were good party players vs. reckless party wipers.  So I guess some of us have no choice but to choose to play "the next random guy" as you put.
 

It is indeed unfortunate and I consider it a luxury, but my point is, people that prefer to solo have no mental sickness. I understand you have no other option to choose that random guy. And to be honest even if none of my friends played the same game, I still would not group with the next random guy. So that would still make me a solo player, and I'm quite sane.

I'm curious, why is it that you won't even try random guys to party with?  I personally find it tedious, but since I prefer parties I go through the process of judging them good or bad players.  In all this you haven't stated why you would not group with the next random guy.  Again, I'm just curious type.  Hope you don't mind the question.  :)
 

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

This does not "screw" the solo player in any way.

It makes the rewards in the game equal.

The solo player is constantly in combat. The group player is constantly trying to organize a group, which doesn't earn xp.

The group player will in essence be playing the game just as long as the solo player, but one will spend more time on combat than the other to reach the same gear and levels.

I'll play 4 hours, one of which is solid making xp, the other three wasting time doing things groups do.

you'll play 4 hours making xp.

We arrive at the same level.

I'll get a group, waste a bunch of time doing it, and wack one mob with that group and make 400 xp.

you'll be in no group, waste no time, and wack 4 mobs for 100 each. I spent time talking and coordinating, then got a big xp haul. You spend the whole time hauling in xp.

Won't be exact, but something like that.

How does that "screw" you?

Are you serious?

Your contention is that a 4 hour group play session results in 1 hour of XPing and 3 hours of "group stuff" .. ?

What the hell are you doing for those 3 hours?

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

This officially scores a 9.6 on my WTF-o-meter.

You want to nerf the rate of solo advancement to compensate for LFG, AFK, etc?

That's just .. incomprehensibly stupid.

How much of an XP handicap do I have to be saddled with to adequately compensate your potty break?

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

This officially scores a 9.6 on my WTF-o-meter.

You want to nerf the rate of solo advancement to compensate for LFG, AFK, etc?

That's just .. incomprehensibly stupid.

How much of an XP handicap do I have to be saddled with to adequately compensate your potty break?

400%.  He has already said as much.  4x as hard to get to the end game as grouping.

Originally posted by hidden1

I'm curious, why is it that you won't even try random guys to party with?  I personally find it tedious, but since I prefer parties I go through the process of judging them good or bad players.  In all this you haven't stated why you would not group with the next random guy.  Again, I'm just curious type.  Hope you don't mind the question.  :)
 

For me, having a static group of people I know  and can trust and evade all stupidity is what I like. And I'm not going to generalize anybody, it's just a prefrence of mine. If I get to know the guy, then yeah I might start taking him with us to do content. But I would rather get a feel for the person, I really need to see how the person is before I feel the need to group with them, which is why I set up my own guild, all my buddies join, and we carry on from there.

I would say bad experience, maybe not in the past, but the last few years has brought some interesting people, but most I have meet, I'm just not interested in playing with due to their personality. And for what it's worth for the last 5 years I have played WoW up until recently, don't wanna be cliche but the community there is rather annoying and pretty much full of people I have no interest in playing with, but I did meet a few that were enjoyable to be around. Perhaps I'm picky?

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

This officially scores a 9.6 on my WTF-o-meter.

You want to nerf the rate of solo advancement to compensate for LFG, AFK, etc?

That's just .. incomprehensibly stupid.

How much of an XP handicap do I have to be saddled with to adequately compensate your potty break?

400%.  He has already said as much.  4x as hard to get to the end game as grouping.

But I need a potty break too!

Or do the groupers have to spend 4x the time as I do coordinating their potty breaks, discussing tactics and (presumable) wasting copious amounts of time LFTP?

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

This officially scores a 9.6 on my WTF-o-meter.

You want to nerf the rate of solo advancement to compensate for LFG, AFK, etc?

That's just .. incomprehensibly stupid.

How much of an XP handicap do I have to be saddled with to adequately compensate your potty break?

Yes, this is IMO, what EQ and DAoC did.

Great games.

My opinion  like mentioned above is 400%, but I would be satisfied with at least double, i.e. for every 1 xp you make solo, I make 2 in a group. That would be the minimum to cover it, but 4 x would be better.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

This officially scores a 9.6 on my WTF-o-meter.

You want to nerf the rate of solo advancement to compensate for LFG, AFK, etc?

That's just .. incomprehensibly stupid.

How much of an XP handicap do I have to be saddled with to adequately compensate your potty break?

400%.  He has already said as much.  4x as hard to get to the end game as grouping.

But I need a potty break too!

Or do the groupers have to spend 4x the time as I do coordinating their potty breaks, discussing tactics and (presumable) wasting copious amounts of time LFTP?

yes, we do.

Travel time, time spent LFG, time waiting on someone that's rez sick, waiting on someone to repair gear, go to a trainer and level, discuss how to split loot, where to go, adding members, dropping members, looking for more members, etc.

you just log on and start making xp since you don't need a group.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

It's doesn't work that way in actuallity. you don't actuall do nothing for 3 hours straight, then play for 1 hour straight.

You may lfg for fifteen minutes, then play for fifteen, then lfg again.

you may lfg, play, then spend time while you are playing adding party members or saying good bye to leaving party members.

Or during the game session, you may wait for someone that went link dead to return. Or you may wait for a party member that is rez sick, needs to regain mana, etc.

or you may not be able to continue xping where you are because you had 8 in your group, now you have 5, so you have to travel.

Then you get 3 more, and the area is to easy, and you travel again.

The solo player has none of these changes or delays. They add up over time, not's not straight do nothing for three hours, play for one.

This officially scores a 9.6 on my WTF-o-meter.

You want to nerf the rate of solo advancement to compensate for LFG, AFK, etc?

That's just .. incomprehensibly stupid.

How much of an XP handicap do I have to be saddled with to adequately compensate your potty break?

400%.  He has already said as much.  4x as hard to get to the end game as grouping.

But I need a potty break too!

Or do the groupers have to spend 4x the time as I do coordinating their potty breaks, discussing tactics and (presumable) wasting copious amounts of time LFTP?

 

yes, we do.

Travel time, time spent LFG, time waiting on someone that's rez sick, waiting on someone to repair gear, go to a trainer and level, discuss how to split loot, where to go, adding members, dropping members, looking for more members, etc.

you just log on and start making xp since you don't need a group.

Each camp takes me 15 minutes or so to pick a part the weaklings and destory the whole camp before I can move on.  I get 5k xp for my 15 minutes of time.  You guys in your 5 or 6 man group come along and roll the same camp, then the next one, and then the next one, in the same 15 minute time frame for 60,000 xp.     That is what your position is advocating.  Do you understand this?  How is 5k xp vs 60k xp even remotely fair?  With just same xp per kill, in 15 minutes of time, you'd have 15k xp in the time I got 5k xp.  I have down time to regenerate health etc, where your group keeps on rolling.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

yes, we do.

Travel time, time spent LFG, time waiting on someone that's rez sick, waiting on someone to repair gear, go to a trainer and level, discuss how to split loot, where to go, adding members, dropping members, looking for more members, etc.

you just log on and start making xp since you don't need a group.

Not to mention wife/GF aggro, kid aggro, phone calls, unexpected visitors, bedtimes, meal times. God, the list is so long.

Anyone who groups on even a semi-regular basis knows all of these are issues.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

yes, we do.

Travel time, time spent LFG, time waiting on someone that's rez sick, waiting on someone to repair gear, go to a trainer and level, discuss how to split loot, where to go, adding members, dropping members, looking for more members, etc.

you just log on and start making xp since you don't need a group.

Not to mention wife/GF aggro, kid aggro, phone calls, unexpected visitors, bedtimes, meal times. God, the list is so long.

Anyone who groups on even a semi-regular basis knows all of these are issues.

 

So basically you should be rewarded for real life issues to?  A lot of his original reasons are half baked. Waiting on someone to repair, rez sickness, how to split loot, where to go, dropping members, trainer after leveling.

Also, i get phone calls while soloing, should i be rewarded to?

Originally posted by Shannia 

Each camp takes me 15 minutes or so to pick a part the weaklings and destory the whole camp before I can move on.  I get 5k xp for my 15 minutes of time.  You guys in your 5 or 6 man group come along and roll the same camp, then the next one, and then the next one, in the same 15 minute time frame for 60,000 xp.     That is what your position is advocating.  Do you understand this?

 

When you are soloing that "collect ten bear paws" quests, how many drops do you need? A full group needs 50.

Quest chains are a pain to group for. At least one player is always on a different stage. Which mean either they skip it, (and solo it later), or the whole group has to redo the earlier stage(s).

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

Or do the groupers have to spend 4x the time as I do coordinating their potty breaks, discussing tactics and (presumable) wasting copious amounts of time LFTP?

 yes, we do.

Travel time, time spent LFG, time waiting on someone that's rez sick, waiting on someone to repair gear, go to a trainer and level, discuss how to split loot, where to go, adding members, dropping members, looking for more members, etc.

you just log on and start making xp since you don't need a group.

Cheap joke time: you're talking crap.

All of the things that you state as being "group stuff" don't happen every time.

You don't always have to LFG; sometimes you can walk straight into a group.
You don't always have to wait out someones rez sickness.
You don't always have to wait out repairs.
You don't always have to discuss loot.
You don't always have to decide where to go.

They can happen. Most of them happen to solo players too.

Demanding "group-aid" for this type of thing just doesn't fly.

Especially to the tune of something ridiculous like 200-400%.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia 

Each camp takes me 15 minutes or so to pick a part the weaklings and destory the whole camp before I can move on.  I get 5k xp for my 15 minutes of time.  You guys in your 5 or 6 man group come along and roll the same camp, then the next one, and then the next one, in the same 15 minute time frame for 60,000 xp.     That is what your position is advocating.  Do you understand this?

 

When you are soloing that "collect ten bear paws" quests, how many drops do you need? A full group needs 50.

Quest chains are a pain to group for. At least one player is always on a different stage. Which mean either they skip it, (and solo it later), or the whole group has to redo the earlier stage(s).

easy, skip collection quests... as far as stages  of quests go, that is just a group management issue.  If you play with PUGs, that is your problem.   I've never had that problem leveling up with set groups in my guild.