I think it's a good idea; group-incented servers. But I don't quite know the mmo that would do that. It seems making seperatively creative servers stopped with the old mmos, and the new mmos just copied those that old mmos had discovered.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

This is want it seems to me like you are doing.

<snip irrelevant analogy>

I'm saying: Give me a world with solo and group content.

You're saying: Give me a world with only group content.

And I'm being elitist? That's your argument, really?

 

No.

Your solo friendly content destroys the group content, IMO.

Don't mind you playing solo, just dont' want you to destroy the group content.

If you want to solo in a game like DAoC or EQ that's fine with me. If you want to dumb down the game so it's like WoW pre-raid, that pretty much screws up the group content for me.

Again, solo all you want, just dont' dumb down the group content for me.

 

Ihmotepp, you are really starting to double talk.  What you are saying is that you are fine with solo and group content can coexist in a game one second but you don't want your group friendly game dumb down by solo content.  So, that begs the question at what point in a game do you seperate solo from group content?  Unless every single part of a game outside cities is instanced based on party make, that just can't happen and destroy the MMORPG world concept.

Let's take a starter newbie quest for example in WoW where you are suppose to go kill Hogger, a level 10 elite.  Some classes in WoW can solo him at level, most can't and require a group.  So, what is our choices here to meet your criteria.  Either the mob only spawns when people are around with the quest and he spawns as an elite or maybe rare depending on if the party is group or solo?  Or, do you want the entire area around Hogger group content?  At that point, you need an instance.  Do you see what I'm getting at? 

Dungeons are made for group content and at level, solo players can't go there.  By default, groupers are getting reward with fast more rewards and xp for their time.  I'm sorry if you fail to realize that, but to make a game as you wish you need to play AoC or realize why the games are made the way they are.  Open world is so much more immersive than closed instances it isn't even funny.

 

I dont' think grouping content in most games is important at all until somewhere between level 5 and 10 of most games. Takes that long for people to fine their way around  the game, and grouping before then is mostly just frustrating anyways. I don't need to group with you while you figure out how to equip a potion, or you didn't know that the sword you are carrying and the ring you are wearing cancel each other out.

Do I NEED to tackle Hogger to make good progress in the game? Or can I just as easily skip that content, save the time it takes to organize a group, and do a bunch of solo content instead? Hey, if you want to waste some time, you can go do the Hogger dungeon with a group. There ya go! What a great grouping game right? Uh, no not really.

In EQ, you could solo to the level cap if you wanted to.

BUT, it was going to be a Loooooooooooooong hard slog, and it would be much, much easier and faster if you grouped.

Why is that? Because the content was primarily geared towards grouping, and not dumbed down so you could easily solo through it.

This would compensate you for the NON-Combat time involved in grouping. It also allowed you to relax and chat with your group members without feeling like OMG! We're losing xp, hurry, hurry, hurry! No need to hurry in a good group, you'd make plenty of xp so just relax and figure out what you need to do and where you need to go.

 

Well, there you go.  You solved your own issue with the group vs solo debate.  You want SOLOERS punished for their choice of play style.  In WoW, it doesn't matter if you solo or group your entire way to 80, but you can get to level cap in roughly the same amount of time played.  Blizzard has worked hard to balance that but that isn't good enough for you.  Don't try to tell me if you group you'll have less money at 80 than someone who soloed, that simply isn't the case if the solo did just a straight XP run with no focus on cash.  The grouper would be much richer from all the drops and rewards from dungeon and group quests.   I've leveled to 80 both ways and when I got there, the grouper had flying mount money (back in the day) and the soloer did not.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

This is want it seems to me like you are doing.

<snip irrelevant analogy>

I'm saying: Give me a world with solo and group content.

You're saying: Give me a world with only group content.

And I'm being elitist? That's your argument, really?

 

No.

Your solo friendly content destroys the group content, IMO.

Don't mind you playing solo, just dont' want you to destroy the group content.

If you want to solo in a game like DAoC or EQ that's fine with me. If you want to dumb down the game so it's like WoW pre-raid, that pretty much screws up the group content for me.

Again, solo all you want, just dont' dumb down the group content for me.

 

Ihmotepp, you are really starting to double talk.  What you are saying is that you are fine with solo and group content can coexist in a game one second but you don't want your group friendly game dumb down by solo content.  So, that begs the question at what point in a game do you seperate solo from group content?  Unless every single part of a game outside cities is instanced based on party make, that just can't happen and destroy the MMORPG world concept.

Let's take a starter newbie quest for example in WoW where you are suppose to go kill Hogger, a level 10 elite.  Some classes in WoW can solo him at level, most can't and require a group.  So, what is our choices here to meet your criteria.  Either the mob only spawns when people are around with the quest and he spawns as an elite or maybe rare depending on if the party is group or solo?  Or, do you want the entire area around Hogger group content?  At that point, you need an instance.  Do you see what I'm getting at? 

Dungeons are made for group content and at level, solo players can't go there.  By default, groupers are getting reward with fast more rewards and xp for their time.  I'm sorry if you fail to realize that, but to make a game as you wish you need to play AoC or realize why the games are made the way they are.  Open world is so much more immersive than closed instances it isn't even funny.

 

I dont' think grouping content in most games is important at all until somewhere between level 5 and 10 of most games. Takes that long for people to fine their way around  the game, and grouping before then is mostly just frustrating anyways. I don't need to group with you while you figure out how to equip a potion, or you didn't know that the sword you are carrying and the ring you are wearing cancel each other out.

Do I NEED to tackle Hogger to make good progress in the game? Or can I just as easily skip that content, save the time it takes to organize a group, and do a bunch of solo content instead? Hey, if you want to waste some time, you can go do the Hogger dungeon with a group. There ya go! What a great grouping game right? Uh, no not really.

In EQ, you could solo to the level cap if you wanted to.

BUT, it was going to be a Loooooooooooooong hard slog, and it would be much, much easier and faster if you grouped.

Why is that? Because the content was primarily geared towards grouping, and not dumbed down so you could easily solo through it.

This would compensate you for the NON-Combat time involved in grouping. It also allowed you to relax and chat with your group members without feeling like OMG! We're losing xp, hurry, hurry, hurry! No need to hurry in a good group, you'd make plenty of xp so just relax and figure out what you need to do and where you need to go.

 

 

Well, there you go.  You solved your own issue with the group vs solo debate.  You want SOLOERS punished for their choice of play style.  In WoW, it doesn't matter if you solo or group your entire way to 80, but you can get to level cap in roughly the same amount of time played.  Blizzard has worked hard to balance that but that isn't good enough for you.  Don't try to tell me if you group you'll have less money at 80 than someone who soloed, that simply isn't the case if the solo did just a straight XP run with no focus on cash.  The grouper would be much richer from all the drops and rewards from dungeon and group quests.   I've leveled to 80 both ways and when I got there, the grouper had flying mount money (back in the day) and the soloer did not.

 

Uh no.

I believe WoW punishes me for group play, pre raid.

Grouping requires more time than just combat time. Solo play does not.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

My answer, the solo content destroys the group content because it has lowered the challenge level of the game in a way to make the group content irrelevant. After all, every MMORPG we play rewards us with XP and gear. The level of challenge in  the game, whether it's hard or easy, should always be measured by the easiest way to get the xp and gear. That is how challenging the game is.

Now your answer?

How does a game like EQ or DAoC destroy your solo content, since you CAN solo to the cap in those games?

 

What are you talking about?

I understand that grouping up for soloable content trivializes it; no-one would deny that.

But your argument is that group content is automatically dumbed down purely by the presence of completely separate solo content? Group content doesn't suddenly change by adding some solo content in another zone. That's just ridiculous.

As for EQ and DAoC, I didn't play 'em. My early MMO progression was UO, EnB, SWG, and WoW.

Originally posted by spades07

I think it's a good idea; group-incented servers. But I don't quite know the mmo that would do that. It seems making seperatively creative servers stopped with the old mmos, and the new mmos just copied those that old mmos had discovered.

Obviously this is only feasible with successful games.

In ALL of WoW players I'm sure there are enough that would enjoy a FFA PvP Server, a Roleplay Server, perhaps a Group oriented server.

For a small game that is barely making it, obviously this would not be an option because those specialty servers would be void of population.

I don't think you ever played WoW because anyone that has knows that grouping instances all the way to 80 you are much better off financially than by straight XP soloing.

 How the HELL is grouping punishing you?  You had 80s in 2-3 days of instance grinding when WOTLK came out where solo leveling took weeks.

well yeah that goes without saying. But there are many mmos there with >100k subs to do something out of the box. I think the last unique ruleset server was done by DAoC with their classic-only concept.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

My answer, the solo content destroys the group content because it has lowered the challenge level of the game in a way to make the group content irrelevant. After all, every MMORPG we play rewards us with XP and gear. The level of challenge in  the game, whether it's hard or easy, should always be measured by the easiest way to get the xp and gear. That is how challenging the game is.

Now your answer?

How does a game like EQ or DAoC destroy your solo content, since you CAN solo to the cap in those games?

 

What are you talking about?

I understand that grouping up for soloable content trivializes it; no-one would deny that.

But your argument is that group content is automatically dumbed down purely by the presence of completely separate solo content? Group content doesn't suddenly change by adding some solo content in another zone. That's just ridiculous.

As for EQ and DAoC, I didn't play 'em. My early MMO progression was UO, EnB, SWG, and WoW.

I think this is why you don't understand the argument. You don't really understand what I am advocating, and think it's something else.

You are arguing against something I'm not asking for.

Solo content is NEVER completely separate unless it's on a different server.

How is it "separate"? It's right there for me to engage in or you, and my character is standing right next to yours. There is nothing "separate" about it.

We're in the same game right? And I'm making the same levels and getting the same gear you are right? Therefore it cannot be "separate".

The solo versus group discussion is a very valid discussion. Personal note: I've read these boards and enjoy their topics but ultimately the community titans regress to flame wars.

Perhaps this topic can be steered in a more constructive direction.

I outlined a few pages back why, mathmatically speaking, properly tailored group content will always be more difficult than properly tailored solo content. The arguments at hand are not of difficulty, but of offering. So which side of the coin do you cater towards, as a developper?

The answer here lies not within which bias (solo versus group) you may find yourself, but again, mathmatical truth. RPGs by their very nature are nothing more than mathmatical games dipped into aestetically pleasing graphics.

A proper answer to the macro solution is to design the entirety of a game that either requires or highly rewards both styles of play. Exposure to demanding solo content ensures that no person is incapable of being the strongest link in group play, and group exposure requires that individuals learn aspects of cooperation. We could argue simplistic (tank'n'spank) senarios and the validity of this, but let's not, let's not. A properly designed game ignores neither side of the coin.

As a developper, I would focus on the what is more difficult. By nature it is easier to scale back standards than to push them forward. It's entropy. This hints at the validity of another poster's statement that by offering equal options between solo and group play, you devalue group play. According to science, all things will degenerate into their most simplistic forms. For an MMO, this means Avatar_382 standing alone.

As such, content should be designed around groups. A slight push in the direction of grouping counters the natural order of things that result in solo'ing. Give plenty of challenging and demanding properly tailored solo play, but the focus should be properly tailored group play. By doing so, and by countering the natural shift for all things to be most simple, then, and only then, do you render them equal.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

I think this is why you don't understand the argument. You don't really understand what I am advocating, and think it's something else.

You are arguing against something I'm not asking for.

Solo content is NEVER completely separate unless it's on a different server.

How is it "separate"? It's right there for me to engage in or you, and my character is standing right next to yours. There is nothing "separate" about it.

We're in the same game right? And I'm making the same levels and getting the same gear you are right? Therefore it cannot be "separate".

You're asking for the proliferation of the group playstyle through the impediment of the solo playstyle.

It's not difficult to grasp; you state it about 20 times a day.

And now onto the highlight, 'cos I think you've finally lost it.

Hypothetical. You're playing a grouping game. You're in a group, doing group quests in Zone A.

The developers decide to add a Zone B with exclusively soloable content.

I come along, hop into Zone B and happily solo away.

How does this affect you in Zone A?

Originally posted by LynxJSA

And that is simply incorrect unless you are trying to say that people defy human nature and their natural behavior once they are in a video game.

You're out of your depth on this issue. Humans are by nature - social animals. We group to achieve tasks. It is the lone wolves who are unusual.

There would be no Human civilization if we were not designed by nature to group.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Obviously this is only feasible with successful games.

In ALL of WoW players I'm sure there are enough that would enjoy a FFA PvP Server, a Roleplay Server, perhaps a Group oriented server.

For a small game that is barely making it, obviously this would not be an option because those specialty servers would be void of population.

All that has to be done is to balance the number of group servers with the likely percentage of players who would play on one. If you think 10% of players would enjoy a group-oriented server, then make 10% of your servers that format.

I have quit WoW (for good this time - probably), but would return if there was a server which had:

no xp penalty for grouping

some method to synchronize players to the same stage of a quest chain.

group acquisition of quest drops

even drops in instances (Boss drops items equal to the number of players in the group)

an option for auto-filing of PUGs

INSTANT teleport to desired instance at start of run.

WoW would suddenly become much more desirable for those who want to group primarily.

It's time for devs of new games to be asked "What provisions have been made for grouping?". Solo players have been appeased.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Obviously this is only feasible with successful games.

In ALL of WoW players I'm sure there are enough that would enjoy a FFA PvP Server, a Roleplay Server, perhaps a Group oriented server.

For a small game that is barely making it, obviously this would not be an option because those specialty servers would be void of population.

All that has to be done is to balance the number of group servers with the likely percentage of players who would play on one. If you think 10% of players would enjoy a group-oriented server, then make 10% of your servers that format.

I have quit WoW (for good this time - probably), but would return if there was a server which had:

no xp penalty for grouping

some method to synchronize players to the same stage of a quest chain.

group acquisition of quest drops

even drops in instances (Boss drops items equal to the number of players in the group)

an option for auto-filing of PUGs

INSTANT teleport to desired instance at start of run.

WoW would suddenly become much more desirable for those who want to group primarily.

It's time for devs of new games to be asked "What provisions have been made for grouping?". Solo players have been appeased.

 

How about an "I Win" button for groups so they can just teleport to a dead boss and pick up tons of fat loot and a magical scroll that takes them to max level? 

You're asking for everything to just be handed to them, just because they decided to hold hands.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Obviously this is only feasible with successful games.

In ALL of WoW players I'm sure there are enough that would enjoy a FFA PvP Server, a Roleplay Server, perhaps a Group oriented server.

For a small game that is barely making it, obviously this would not be an option because those specialty servers would be void of population.

All that has to be done is to balance the number of group servers with the likely percentage of players who would play on one. If you think 10% of players would enjoy a group-oriented server, then make 10% of your servers that format.

I have quit WoW (for good this time - probably), but would return if there was a server which had:

no xp penalty for grouping

some method to synchronize players to the same stage of a quest chain.

group acquisition of quest drops

even drops in instances (Boss drops items equal to the number of players in the group)

an option for auto-filing of PUGs

INSTANT teleport to desired instance at start of run.

WoW would suddenly become much more desirable for those who want to group primarily.

It's time for devs of new games to be asked "What provisions have been made for grouping?". Solo players have been appeased.

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.  Futhermore, from what you describe as what you want before you'll go back to WoW, you are better of playing console games than MMORPGs.

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

I think this is why you don't understand the argument. You don't really understand what I am advocating, and think it's something else.

You are arguing against something I'm not asking for.

Solo content is NEVER completely separate unless it's on a different server.

How is it "separate"? It's right there for me to engage in or you, and my character is standing right next to yours. There is nothing "separate" about it.

We're in the same game right? And I'm making the same levels and getting the same gear you are right? Therefore it cannot be "separate".

You're asking for the proliferation of the group playstyle through the impediment of the solo playstyle.

It's not difficult to grasp; you state it about 20 times a day.

And now onto the highlight, 'cos I think you've finally lost it.

Hypothetical. You're playing a grouping game. You're in a group, doing group quests in Zone A.

The developers decide to add a Zone B with exclusively soloable content.

I come along, hop into Zone B and happily solo away.

How does this affect you in Zone A?

I will play in Zone B.

I no longer see any point in playing in Zone A if the rewards are the same or similar in both zones.

If Zone A provides at least 2x (and I'd actually say 4x would be fair) the xp, then you are right, this will not effect me that you are playing in Zone B, because I will not join you in Zone B. The time I take to group will be adequately compensated, and we will come out about the same in both zones.

This would then be the choice:

In a group make 100 xp. This requires one hour of time NOT in combat with the mechanics of working in a group, and one hour actually in combat.

Solo, you spend one hour in combat, make 50 xp. If you spend two hours in combat, you make 100 xp, same as me in the group.

We have both played the game 2 hours, and both have made 100 xp, which to me seems quite fair.

You want to only count the time I am in actual combat, and not the time required to group. This to me seems unfair, since grouping is part of playing the game.

Why should we not both  be compensated the same for playing the game the same amount of time?

After all, everything in MMORPGs is measured in time.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

Right, you want to be rewarded for sitting around and picking your nose.  Got it.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Right, you want to be rewarded for sitting around and picking your nose.  Got it.

I want to be rewarded for playing the game.

Organizing a group in an MMORPG is part of the game, is it not?

Originally posted by Shannia

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

Notice that you are opposing benefits to grouping in a thread about servers designed to encourage grouping. It sure seems like you hate grouping and don't want anyone to enjoy it.

If there are servers for soloers and some for grouping, what does it hurt you if grouped players get full value from kills, for example?

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

This is like trying to convince me my favorite color is blue, not green.

You are advocating a solo friendly game. Of course you believe my group efforts in a game like WoW, pre raid, are already adequately rewarded. I would expect you to think so.

I disagree. But it is not an objective argument either of us can win. It is a preference.

I understand you like the set up in WoW and think that's fair. I'm glad there are games like WoW which you can play that are solo friendly.

I think the set up in WoW does not adequately compensate group play. I would like a game that I enjoy, just as you enjoy your solo friendly game. I would not try to convince you to play it, any more than I would try to convince you what your favorite color is.

I think I understand what you mean Ihmotep.  I miss that about Hellgate.  The game not only scales up to your level when solo in Stonehenge and the Wilds area, but would also scale up in difficulty for mob A.I. but also the mobs automatically gained more HP and dealt more WAY more damage depending on the party size.  So if it was a 2 man party, the damage/difficulty would scale up just a tad (and so not too noticeable from solo'ing).  However, if it was a full party, man would all the players would have to play we utter PERFECTION or cause a party whipe.  Yeah so party to me was more fun for that reason.  We all had to step up our game or cause a party wipe with just normal mobs (not even mentinoning Rare/Epic/Bosses).

One more factor made it exciting for me... me and my guild only played Hellgate in Hardcore mode and always were in full party for the hardest difficulty scaling. :)

Fun times.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia

 

The XP penalty in WoW is a lie.  For the same hours played, a group can go to 70-80 in 2-3 days tops where a solo player would take a week or more.  That is a fact.  So this XP penalty by grouping is a myth.

 

It's not a myth. You can see it on each kill you get when grouped. You get far less xp for a kill when grouped.

The example of instance grinding? Oh, what fun! I REALLY want to run the same exact content dozens of times in order to move on to the next instance to grind dozens of times.

 

Are you that slow, or are you just pretending in order to force an argument?  Of course you get less XP per kill in a group, because it is shared, just as it should be.  However, in a group, you will be able to kill more things in the same time, thus evening out the XP.

 

You are only counting combat time.

Groups require more time that just combat time.

Solo players do not require the non combat time that groups require.

So no, it doesn't "even out".

 

Yet at the same time in four hour play session a solo player may have to go back to the bank once or twice but the group had to summon people back 4 and 5 times because they kill so much more than the solo player.   Please, don't sit here and insult us like this.  Groupers do just fine and don't need extra compensation because of down time.  And I said this to you yesterday, extended downtime for a group is group management issue, not a unfair solo advantage.

 

 

This is like trying to convince me my favorite color is blue, not green.

You are advocating a solo friendly game. Of course you believe my group efforts in a game like WoW, pre raid, are already adequately rewarded. I would expect you to think so.

I disagree. But it is not an objective argument either of us can win. It is a preference.

I understand you like the set up in WoW and think that's fair. I'm glad there are games like WoW which you can play that are solo friendly.

I think the set up in WoW does not adequately compensate group play. I would like a game that I enjoy, just as you enjoy your solo friendly game. I would not try to convince you to play it, any more than I would try to convince you what your favorite color is.

You already stated buried in your OP, your true intentions.  Like it or not, you said SCREW the solo player.  Your words, "On my server, solo play will be a long hard difficult struggle, at least 4x longer than taking on the content in a group."  So you see, you are not for happy players for all.  You already admitted, SCREW the solo play.