Originally posted by Tisiphone

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by Sacfed

 

Wasted time is subjective to everyone, I mean its a game without life consequences.
Well at least since you don't play anymore you don't really have to worry about the bots. I havent seen any bots yet in this game, but I always look at them as a challenge in the game.

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I swear, fans will find any excuse for any short comings their game has.
Look, the bots are disruptive to legit players. The types of consequences, if any, it has on real life makes absolutely no difference. People are playing a monthly fee and are being denied a portion of the service because of the bots. Besides that, the fact is that bots will eventually destroy the in-game economy.
If you're OK with it, or if you haven't seen any bots yet, doesn't mean that it's OK for these people to continue.

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I have seen many bots in Aion, and I do agree that they are quite irritating and they are not being removed promptly. For instance, on my server, they continually camp the Daru outside Morheim, so that it is nigh impossible to complete the quest there that requires them.

They are easy to spot. They tend to travel in pairs, with meaningless, consonant filled names, farming one type of mob in a small area. They will steal any kill that they reach before HP is less than half down.

I have, however, seen a massive decrease in the infinite chat spam of previous weeks though, so that boosts my confidence that the issue is being (albeit much too slowly) worked on.

A GM actually logged in and spoke to us briefly on Siel the other day about the problem. I had not seen one since day one, so perhaps they have hired some more. This was right before the spam crack-down.

Finally, I would add that I would prefer to see bots than have GameGuard reinstalled, which is, sadly, what is probably going to happen if people continue to bitterly complain.

I hope not! Gameguard is absolutely useless and the versions of Aion that use GG (Chinese and Korean) have an even bigger bot problem than we do.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Sacfed

Wasted time is subjective to everyone, I mean its a game without life consequences.

Well at least since you don't play anymore you don't really have to worry about the bots. I havent seen any bots yet in this game, but I always look at them as a challenge in the game.

I swear, fans will find any excuse for any short comings their game has.

Look, the bots are disruptive to legit players. The types of consequences, if any, it has on real life makes absolutely no difference. People are playing a monthly fee and are being denied a portion of the service because of the bots. Besides that, the fact is that bots will eventually destroy the in-game economy.

If you're OK with it, or if you haven't seen any bots yet, doesn't mean that it's OK for these people to continue.

If you are reading all the posts you will notice that I do say that bots are inexcusable.  I just think that working around it is an appropriate response while NC works on it.  If NC can't fix it you either have to live with the bots or quit.  I think the game has enough quality to work around the bots.

Originally posted by Fkinglinux

Let me first state that I loved this game and beta, and enjoy every aspect of what it could be. But having a 35 cleric, realizing that it wasn't for me and now a 31 ranger.

The amount of bots have become so ridiculous that it is becoming very difficult for legit players to even level up or complete quests. The game world in AION already suffers from being a bit small in comparison to most games, factor that in with the overabundance of bots that take up more than their fair share of the virtual real-estate, and you have a recipe for disaster.

I've been playing MMO's back since UO and have never seen a game with such a high bot:player ratio as AION. It's quite obvious to almost every legit player that the issue has skyrocketed out of hand, and is beyond past the point where it should have been adressed. I play on the Siel/Asmodian server and on my 31 ranger am having severe difficulty even finding mobs to grind because EVERY spot is being camped 24/7 by bots.

I find this very disappointing because I enjoy the game very much, and don't even mind that it's a tad grindy. However, I probably woln't be resubbing because the bots have become so overpopulated that the game borders on being unplayable.

I have to agree.  The amount of bots is really getting out of hand.  They really need to get something going on cracking down on these players.  I was in Herion the other day and granted it was really late but I was the only live player in the jungle/swamp area. 

It was quite entertaining though, I will say, when a rift opened and asmos came pouring in and killed the bots over and over again because they kept insta ressing and running straight back into the slaughter over and over again.  I actually encountered my first aether gathering bot last night as well : /

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Fkinglinux

Let me first state that I loved this game and beta, and enjoy every aspect of what it could be. But having a 35 cleric, realizing that it wasn't for me and now a 31 ranger.

The amount of bots have become so ridiculous that it is becoming very difficult for legit players to even level up or complete quests. The game world in AION already suffers from being a bit small in comparison to most games, factor that in with the overabundance of bots that take up more than their fair share of the virtual real-estate, and you have a recipe for disaster.

I've been playing MMO's back since UO and have never seen a game with such a high bot:player ratio as AION. It's quite obvious to almost every legit player that the issue has skyrocketed out of hand, and is beyond past the point where it should have been adressed. I play on the Siel/Asmodian server and on my 31 ranger am having severe difficulty even finding mobs to grind because EVERY spot is being camped 24/7 by bots.

I find this very disappointing because I enjoy the game very much, and don't even mind that it's a tad grindy. However, I probably woln't be resubbing because the bots have become so overpopulated that the game borders on being unplayable.

 

I have to agree.  The amount of bots is really getting out of hand.  They really need to get something going on cracking down on these players.  I was in Herion the other day and granted it was really late but I was the only live player in the jungle/swamp area. 

It was quite entertaining though, I will say, when a rift opened and asmos came pouring in and killed the bots over and over again because they kept insta ressing and running straight back into the slaughter over and over again.  I actually encountered my first aether gathering bot last night as well : /

Just play with your friends in your guild, and think of bots as mob crowd control.

Originally posted by Sacfed

 Just play with your friends in your guild, and think of bots as mob crowd control.

Really not an option right now because there is only one other player around my level and he refuses to do quests unless they are specifically at his exact level.

I'm not going to preach doom and gloom here, but I can't completely dismiss them either.  They do make it hard to complete quests in areas that they swarm over and considering how much higher level they are than the mobs they're killing you can't even ks from them much.  Not to mention the adverse effect they're going to have on the economy if this is allowed to continue plus I don't want to see people get frustrated over this and end up quitting the game.

I really enjoy this game, but it would behoove NCSoft to get cracking on these knuckleheads.  I'm not saying they aren't but there have been quite a few I've been seeing running around for quite some time now that are still at it. I report them but I'm starting to wonder what the point is because there are a few I've seen for at least a week now that are still out and about.  Hell, the asmos on our server (I play Elyos) even know who a lot of them are now because they can tell from how they react (or lack thereof) when they swarm through a rift and attack.

Originally posted by cukimunga

LOL I just don't understand why people payed 50 bucks to let a program play the game for them. I thought the purpose of buying a game is to play it yourself. People never cease to amaze me.

I totally agree.

The only way Nsoft will address the problem if people quit Aion because of it.

If Nsoft see a decrease in monthly sub's they will act, most bot users have two accounts 2 x monthly fee

i have to agree on this one

whatever ncsoft has done till now to stop gold sellers  has failed miserably

as of now gold sellers are spamming in full swing with no damn whatever.I was suprised to see some gold sellers advertising via private store in middle of sanctum the capital city

I wonder if ncsoft goes hand in hand with these botters and gold sellers

the economy gets ruined,people who buy in game cash and there are lots they can now buy any item any price jaking up the prices

absurd mid lvl items are being sold at million kinah prices and that ridiculous.I am till lvl 24 and I made only  600K kinah so far ( out of which i was able to sell one rare stigma for 250K kinah)

i think game guard will make its way back

Originally posted by jimmy123

Originally posted by cukimunga

LOL I just don't understand why people payed 50 bucks to let a program play the game for them. I thought the purpose of buying a game is to play it yourself. People never cease to amaze me.

 

I totally agree.

The only way Nsoft will address the problem if people quit Aion because of it.

If Nsoft see a decrease in monthly sub's they will act, most bot users have two accounts 2 x monthly fee

They won't do anything.

Lineage 2 tanked completely here in the West for the exact same reasons!  What did NCSoft do back then, when the cheating and botting went totally out of control?  NOTHING!

AION will tank even faster here in the West then Lineage 2 did. And all that NCSoft will do, from their Korean HQ, is do a round of firing people in the Western Offices and be done with it.

Hence, they never bothered fixing Tabula Rasa and just pulled the plug a year later.

It becomes more and more clear that NCSoft only cares about how their games are doing in Asia and we customers here in the West are just quick money cows to rake in cash from Retail sales only!

Just look how launch went:

- Minimal (too low even) number of servers with high queues for over 2 weeks.

- Minimal Customer Support. No 24hr GM support. No GM support here in EU at all even.

That's why I canceled my sub last week and I will never buy nor play a game from NCSoft ever again.

After the Lineage 2 debacle and now AION going the same way. I have had my share of crap with NCSoft.

Cheers

If it takes a huge quantity of time to make good money and grind levels in a game, and getting good money is a simple as hitting an enemy with a sword thousands of times over, there will be lots of bottters no matter what the developers do.

I seem to remember pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies having few, if any, bots. And it seems that Korean games like Aion, Lineage 2, and Ragnarok Online have the absolute worst botting populations known to mankind.

Conclusion: Sandbox RPGs (or theme park RPGs that aren't tedious grindfests) are much less prone to botting getting way out of control.

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EVE Online is a special case actually, the only thing people can "bot" in it is mining, because no bot can handle missions, PvP, piracy, trading, or any of the other complex activities one can engage in.

EVE bots aren't even that annoying, they're the equivalent of mining robots and only bother lame people who want to stay safe in highsec. And you can buy ISK for real money legally using CCP's time card trade system, so there's no need for gold farmers anyway.

The lesson to take from EVE is that if retards can't make money by very simply killing/camping mobs -- if complex user input is requires and there IS no way to "bot" in the majority of the game -- that goes a long way towards curtailing botting. Also, having a legal RMT system cripples the illegal ones.

Originally posted by Sacfed

Well at least since you don't play anymore you don't really have to worry about the bots. I havent seen any bots yet in this game, but I always look at them as a challenge in the game.

Look harder, they're not difficult to spot.   Typically they:

1) Have nosensical names, such as asrfadf   or run in a pair like "whammo and jammo"

2) They love to be Gladitors, can't say why, but if you see a gladiator swining a pole arm somewhere alone, there's a good chance its a bot.

3)  Compare levels.  If said same gladiator is say, level 24, and farming in an area of level 18, non-elite mobs, its probably a bot.

4)  Watch their running patttern, they will frequently ignore a nearby npc and run a ways to kill another down the path.  They also will attack the npc that you have already pulled, despite there being a free npc right nearby.

At the lower levels where I'm at botting isn't too bad, because we have 5 instances to chose from.  I suspect once I cross into the 20+ areas I'm going to get more annoyed.

Yesterday, around 6PM EST, I ran from Basfelt Village To Trader's Birth In Altgard on Asmo side. As I was passing through Gribage Canyon I saw a whole legion of bots ranging from lvl 16-24 camping Sprigg Outlaws. The bots all had gibberish names, were all gladiators and all belonged to the same legion with a gibberish name. All of them were spread out in such a way as to provide maximum coverage and not interfere with each other.

At first I thought that it was a foreign guild doing quests but then I realized that there is only one quest associated with that mob. Luckily I already finished that quest because the bots literally camped those Sprigg Outlaws into extinction.

Originally posted by jimmy123

Originally posted by cukimunga

LOL I just don't understand why people payed 50 bucks to let a program play the game for them. I thought the purpose of buying a game is to play it yourself. People never cease to amaze me.

 

I totally agree.

The only way Nsoft will address the problem if people quit Aion because of it.

If Nsoft see a decrease in monthly sub's they will act, most bot users have two accounts 2 x monthly fee

Well, there are two types of botters, the RMT people and players.  NcSoft is working on the RMT folks by tracking their money and banning their accounts.

The player bots are a completely different story.  I've never seen so many players with regular names belonging to well known legions botting.  I have never botted or hacked in my life, but the other day I did go out looking for Aion bots.  Why?  Because after 30 this game is an endless grind.  It is causing people that would never consider botting because they are ENJOYING the game to consider botting because this game after 30 is a total grind.

What is the difference if I stay in the same area, killing the same mobs, hitting the same buttons in the same order for 8 hours or if I let a bot do it.  I already feel like a bot!

This story does have a happy ending.  I just figured any game that made me want to bot was not the kind of game I wanted to play and I canceled.  I'm afraid I won't be the only one.

The game is sworming with bots...i hope they fix it soon...its a gamebreaker for me

Originally posted by heartless

Yesterday, around 6PM EST, I ran from Basfelt Village To Trader's Birth In Altgard on Asmo side. As I was passing through Gribage Canyon I saw a whole legion of bots ranging from lvl 16-24 camping Sprigg Outlaws. The bots all had gibberish names, were all gladiators and all belonged to the same legion with a gibberish name. All of them were spread out in such a way as to provide maximum coverage and not interfere with each other.

At first I thought that it was a foreign guild doing quests but then I realized that there is only one quest associated with that mob. Luckily I already finished that quest because the bots literally camped those Sprigg Outlaws into extinction.

Yes, that is a particularly bad area and it's unfortunate that one of the quests has you killing three mini-bosses.  You can't really find the mini-bosses because the second they spawn they are dead.  Oh, there is one boss that is elite, and they are programmed not to attack him, so that's one you can kill.

You can kill the others, too if you are lucky enough to be standing right on top of them when they spawn and can do 1/2 the damage before a bot 5 levels above you one shots the mob.

Originally posted by Sacfed

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Sacfed

So a bot is actually preventing you from playing the game?  How is it that you are outsmarted by a script of commands so easily. There are creative ways to kill the bots, when I find a bot I will find a way to kill it.

 

It's because of the way kill rights work in this game and because usually there are a number of these bots in one area and by the time you get there all of the mobs needed for the quests are killed by the bots.

 

There is no excuse for allowing bots in a game I get that! But there is no excuse for you not to be smarter then a 30 line script.

You don't seem to understand the bigger picture here; which seems to be the case with a lot of people dismissing the issue or blaming it on other things.

It's not merely a "30 line script" - and to think that the botting apps/scripts are *that* simple *really* underscores how little you understand the scope of the issue. I suggest you do a little more research before speaking out like that. There are entire applications created and then purchased/used by people to bot and such.

That said... even going with your example... even if it were only a 30 line script... it would be a 30 line script executed repeatedly, many, *many* times faster than a human being could, with absolute precision, perfect targeting, perfect direction and perfectly timed execution of skills, etc... All of that being executed simultaneously by several bot-controlled characters in a given spot. A typical script can read the game's memory and react to mobs spawning before a player even sees them appear on screen.

A live player cannot be as fast, precise or efficient as a well scripted bot.... ever.. nevermind a group of them.

Originally posted by Fkinglinux

I've been playing MMO's back since UO and

 

 every single poster on MMORPG.COM says that... it translates to "Wow was my first MMO"

Have not really seen many of the usual bots with names that look like the typical ones, but i have seen a few player run bots in Eltnan desert. Also look on the broker to find out who is a player run bot as they are the ones with the most items to sell from botting.

So far my server i have not had any major problems with botters ruining my play time (Lumiel).

Can't speak for the other servers but so far mine has not been over run yet.

i know on my server certain areas are over run with them, Beluslan being the main one. last night i counted 13 just around the fort there, in the area close enough to the fort you can still fly in. a couple looked like they was player bots for lazy tards. saw a cleric named sreon stuck in this deep hole in the back for like an hour running around in circles down there. and deep i mean there is a huge pit back there, and yes the tard could have just flown out but ya know.

there was about 6 of them with the name Wagner in thier name, Wagnerctrl,Wagnerend,Wagnerenter,Wagnerhome ect ect ect. Octaviushero,Waldencup,Waldenpgup,Octavius(something), bunch in the same guild called "Koum" wordl,cookl,wookool,cool(something) and those are just the ones i can think of off the top of my head.

me and 3 of my guildies was trying to quest and the mobs we needed was just decimated, took us forever to do 2 quests. eventually we gave up and just started training them, it was way more fun than fighting over mobs with them..lol unequipped my weapon , wait till i saw one pull a mob, run up punch another one run and stand next to the bot. being they're 99% Glads they aoe alot, so they'd aoe hitting the second mob.strangely satisfying killing bots over and over..lol

that said, i cancelled my Aion account, its open till the 24th. staying cancelled till i see them make an effort in the bot department, that waldencup guy i have reported everyday for 2 weeks now and he's still going.I WANT them to do something about the bots i love the game but i won't sub to a game where its this bad.and the fact you can onoly report 9 an hour bothers me, and the fact you can't send problem reports from 10pm-7am really bothers me, and i mean it won't even let you send one for when they get online, cant AT ALL.

this moring i saw most of the bots log out at 6:30 am, coinsidence? no, being that you can report a player a million times they won't do anything if they don't witness it, and no gms from 10pm-7am gives bots free reign as long as they stick to those hours. who knows maybe a GM (even tho there is none before 7am) banned all those bots, i plan on checking tonite, i wanna see if the times you see the bots there are teh same hours there is no customer service.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Sacfed

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Sacfed

So a bot is actually preventing you from playing the game?  How is it that you are outsmarted by a script of commands so easily. There are creative ways to kill the bots, when I find a bot I will find a way to kill it.

 

It's because of the way kill rights work in this game and because usually there are a number of these bots in one area and by the time you get there all of the mobs needed for the quests are killed by the bots.

 

There is no excuse for allowing bots in a game I get that! But there is no excuse for you not to be smarter then a 30 line script.

You don't seem to understand the bigger picture here; which seems to be the case with a lot of people dismissing the issue or blaming it on other things.

It's not merely a "30 line script" - and to think that the botting apps/scripts are *that* simple *really* underscores how little you understand the scope of the issue. I suggest you do a little more research before speaking out like that. There are entire applications created and then purchased/used by people to bot and such.

That said... even going with your example... even if it were only a 30 line script... it would be a 30 line script executed repeatedly, many, *many* times faster than a human being could, with absolute precision, perfect targeting, perfect direction and perfectly timed execution of skills, etc... All of that being executed simultaneously by several bot-controlled characters in a given spot. A typical script can read the game's memory and react to mobs spawning before a player even sees them appear on screen.

A live player cannot be as fast, precise or efficient as a well scripted bot.... ever.. nevermind a group of them.

You don't seem to understand that I do understand there is a problem with Bots.  What I did say is that if you are letting a 30 line script out smart you, that you are M&S. 

I saw my first bots this weekend "Completely" camping an area in Morheim. Took about 5 minutes to take over an area long enough to grind an entire level in about 2 hours (Level 23-24)

I don't think that is a problem 5 minutes?? It takes longer for me to sort through all my drops then to fix stupid bots.

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Originally posted by rafaelrehn
 every single poster on MMORPG.COM says that... it translates to "Wow was my first MMO"

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Gods I hope not, because it sure as hell wasn't mine.

Originally posted by Sacfed

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Sacfed

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Sacfed

So a bot is actually preventing you from playing the game?  How is it that you are outsmarted by a script of commands so easily. There are creative ways to kill the bots, when I find a bot I will find a way to kill it.

 

It's because of the way kill rights work in this game and because usually there are a number of these bots in one area and by the time you get there all of the mobs needed for the quests are killed by the bots.

 

There is no excuse for allowing bots in a game I get that! But there is no excuse for you not to be smarter then a 30 line script.

You don't seem to understand the bigger picture here; which seems to be the case with a lot of people dismissing the issue or blaming it on other things.

It's not merely a "30 line script" - and to think that the botting apps/scripts are *that* simple *really* underscores how little you understand the scope of the issue. I suggest you do a little more research before speaking out like that. There are entire applications created and then purchased/used by people to bot and such.

That said... even going with your example... even if it were only a 30 line script... it would be a 30 line script executed repeatedly, many, *many* times faster than a human being could, with absolute precision, perfect targeting, perfect direction and perfectly timed execution of skills, etc... All of that being executed simultaneously by several bot-controlled characters in a given spot. A typical script can read the game's memory and react to mobs spawning before a player even sees them appear on screen.

A live player cannot be as fast, precise or efficient as a well scripted bot.... ever.. nevermind a group of them.

 

You don't seem to understand that I do understand there is a problem with Bots.  What I did say is that if you are letting a 30 line script out smart you, that you are M&S. 

Well, first, I didn't say you didn't understand there *is* a problem... I explained how you, demonstrably, don't fully appreciate the *scope* of the problem.  And this last response from you only further demonstrates that.

I gave an explanation of how the problem isn't as simple as you characterize it - which you conveniently ignored, and  continued on repeating your talking points.

The point remains... if you think botting/RMT happens on the back of tiny scripts, then you do not realize the scope of the issue or just how involved a typical botting/RMT setup is. You're demonstrating your ignorance of the situation more clearly than you probably realize. But hey, if you're perfectly happy to remain willfully ignorant, and go on thinking that these companies are collecting and selling 10s of millions of in-game currency with "30 line scripts".... well... more power to ya, I guess.

I saw my first bots this weekend "Completely" camping an area in Morheim. Took about 5 minutes to take over an area long enough to grind an entire level in about 2 hours (Level 23-24)

I don't think that is a problem 5 minutes?? It takes longer for me to sort through all my drops then to fix stupid bots.

And you believe that one incident that you experienced is representative of the issue as a whole? Really?

Again... willful ignorance.



Just one request.... If you're going to completely ignore what I say, and continue on repeating your talking points... next time, don't bother responding to me, okay? Don't waste my time.

I've seen my friends used Aion bots at some internet caffe in Taiwan.

This bots pretty much plays just like real people.  It's hard to even distinguish the bots from real people.

It's not some cheap 30 line script.

Originally posted by Ephimero

The best mobs are always aggro in this game, bots should never prevent you from getting the best spots cause they're not there.

Not true at all.  Last night we ran into tons of bots in aggro mob areas (Eltnen).  One I was watching was an assassin who was hitting mobs several meters away.  Bots do affect gameplay when they are consuming a good deal of the mobs available before you can even get to them.  And on Nezekan it is getting much worse.  There is a point of saturation that will be reached where people will just leave the game. 

welcome to NCSOFT lol