I took a break for a couple months from the genre over the summer after growing bored with what WoW had to offer in WoTLK due to completing it back in January; and giving other games a try that weren't good enough when I played them at release. When I came back from my break, I gave WoW another shot with their new raid content, left for the new MMORPG's that released late this summer, and couldn't get into any of them. So I recently decided to give LoTRO, envious that they do a good job telling a story over a long period of time with their game. It's been 3 days and I can't even get motivated to log in, much less play it. So I'm done with the genre...for now.

The problem is that there isn't any challenge in the genre. No real choice either. I'm an intellectual person, who needs mental stimulation and challenge in his games. I like to make choices, and suffer the consequences for those choices, whether good or bad. All games in this genre are designed for the players to win, even if played in retard mode. Given that there aren't any intellectually stimulating games, I'm taking a break.

My first experience and majority experience with the RPG genre has been games that offered lots of choices, in both character customization/progression and the story element. Even my first 3 MMO's allowed plenty of choices. So I'm just going to take a break from these games and recharge the RPG batteries. I'll return when a more innovative or mentally stimulating game comes around.

Anyone else reached this point, or reached this point again? If so, what's on the horizon that may bring you back. Mortal Online is what I'm paying attention to.

Originally posted by nate1980

I took a break for a couple months from the genre over the summer after growing bored with what WoW had to offer in WoTLK due to completing it back in January; and giving other games a try that weren't good enough when I played them at release. When I came back from my break, I gave WoW another shot with their new raid content, left for the new MMORPG's that released late this summer, and couldn't get into any of them. So I recently decided to give LoTRO, envious that they do a good job telling a story over a long period of time with their game. It's been 3 days and I can't even get motivated to log in, much less play it. So I'm done with the genre...for now.

The problem is that there isn't any challenge in the genre. No real choice either. I'm an intellectual person, who needs mental stimulation and challenge in his games. I like to make choices, and suffer the consequences for those choices, whether good or bad. All games in this genre are designed for the players to win, even if played in retard mode. Given that there aren't any intellectually stimulating games, I'm taking a break.

My first experience and majority experience with the RPG genre has been games that offered lots of choices, in both character customization/progression and the story element. Even my first 3 MMO's allowed plenty of choices. So I'm just going to take a break from these games and recharge the RPG batteries. I'll return when a more innovative or mentally stimulating game comes around.

Anyone else reached this point, or reached this point again? If so, what's on the horizon that may bring you back. Mortal Online is what I'm paying attention to.

YES....

I am dying for real choice/consequence -death penalty- etc. etc. not a linear trek to "uberness"

Downloading Fallen Earth now- the last great hope- I just cant take it anymore.... AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Mortal Online isn't going to do anything new besides let you run around with full nudity bits shown...yay joy!

Take a closer look at FFXIV and SW:TOR if want a good amount of change in how storylines and quests are played out instead of the current norm!  By the time either of these 2 get released you'll get in a good 1yr break from MMOs too!

If you "completed" WOTLK in January, you are way behind the power curve and your gear is seriously lacking now.  Best get busy with it again or your gear will be so far behind at the next expansion, you won't find any groups.  The really BIG deal now is them checking your gear/achievements before they will group with you to ensure you know content.

Originally posted by bluegrazz

Originally posted by nate1980

I took a break for a couple months from the genre over the summer after growing bored with what WoW had to offer in WoTLK due to completing it back in January; and giving other games a try that weren't good enough when I played them at release. When I came back from my break, I gave WoW another shot with their new raid content, left for the new MMORPG's that released late this summer, and couldn't get into any of them. So I recently decided to give LoTRO, envious that they do a good job telling a story over a long period of time with their game. It's been 3 days and I can't even get motivated to log in, much less play it. So I'm done with the genre...for now.

The problem is that there isn't any challenge in the genre. No real choice either. I'm an intellectual person, who needs mental stimulation and challenge in his games. I like to make choices, and suffer the consequences for those choices, whether good or bad. All games in this genre are designed for the players to win, even if played in retard mode. Given that there aren't any intellectually stimulating games, I'm taking a break.

My first experience and majority experience with the RPG genre has been games that offered lots of choices, in both character customization/progression and the story element. Even my first 3 MMO's allowed plenty of choices. So I'm just going to take a break from these games and recharge the RPG batteries. I'll return when a more innovative or mentally stimulating game comes around.

Anyone else reached this point, or reached this point again? If so, what's on the horizon that may bring you back. Mortal Online is what I'm paying attention to.

 

YES....

I am dying for real choice/consequence -death penalty- etc. etc. not a linear trek to "uberness"

Downloading Fallen Earth now- the last great hope- I just cant take it anymore.... AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yeah, Fallen Earth made my casualty list. It's not anywhere close to what you may expect. You'll see this yourself.

Originally posted by Khrymson

Mortal Online isn't going to do anything new besides let you run around with full nudity bits shown...yay joy!

 

Take a closer look at FFXIV and SW:TOR if want a good amount of change in how storylines and quests are played out instead of the current norm!  By the time either of these 2 get released you'll get in a good 1yr break from MMOs too!

Do some more research on Mortal Online. The game is much different than the norm and offers a lot of choice.

I'll also be paying attention to FF and will definitely buy SWTOR.

Originally posted by Shannia

If you "completed" WOTLK in January, you are way behind the power curve and your gear is seriously lacking now.  Best get busy with it again or your gear will be so far behind at the next expansion, you won't find any groups.  The really BIG deal now is them checking your gear/achievements before they will group with you to ensure you know content.

 

Lol, sorry. Wow, sounds serious. I guess I better get on it. We all knows what happens in real life if you don't keep your gear upgraded in WoW, and god forbid the losers in WoW won't let me in their groups. In all seriousness and no sarcasm, I really don't care anymore.

I did the whole gear grind for Naxx and got all geared up and then was bored. I came back, as I said already, to try out the Ulduar raid, but left for Champions Online, Fallen Earth, and AION when I was faced with the prospect of playing 6 hours a night 2-3 times a week. No freakin' thanks. The people in WoW take raiding way too serious and are too hardcore for me thesedays. Playing 4-6 hours straight is nonsense, especially since the instance saves to you for 1 week, longer if you choose to extend it. A more appropriate approach, if for no other reason for health reasons, you should play no more than 3 hours in one sitting. But the community in WoW MUST complete the entire raid in one night. Like I said, at this point in my life, I don't care anymore. I'd love to raid, but the community takes it to the extreme. Instead of toning down the amount of time they raid each week, they prefer long ass runs. That isn't healthy.

If I do buy the new expansion, I'd reroll anyways, as a Worgen and would probably still quit after reaching the point where everyone who is any good wants to run 4-6 hour dungeons without splitting it up over a couple days.

I'm sorry if I came across rude to you, I have nothing against you at all. I wish you the best of luck, but the way you made it sound like getting gear in WoW is serious business just had me rolling. Most likely because it's 5 hours past my bedtime.

I'd have to agree with the OP.

I'm pretty bored w/ the genre as a whole. It's a shame because there are pieces of each MMO that I thuroughly enjoy, but it's just not enough to carry these games.

I think the only game in the 'somewhat' near horizon I can honestly say I'm willing to give a shot would be GW2. However, I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to give that game a fair chance either. I loved the first game, both the story & strategy of it, but this genre is falling into a void it doesn't seem to be able to get out of.

I don't think anyone has really been able to pinpoint what this genre needs, but everyone seems to have at least one decent idea that would help. It's getting to the point where I doubt any one company has the time or resources to be able to bring whatever it is we all are looking for. It's going to have to happen gradually, over multiple games, and people are going to have to be able to give them enough of a chance to allow them to grow. In short, it's very possible that the genre may need to be re-designed from the ground up, if it's going to last as anything but a shell of it's potential.

Originally posted by aesperus

I'd have to agree with the OP.

I'm pretty bored w/ the genre as a whole. It's a shame because there are pieces of each MMO that I thuroughly enjoy, but it's just not enough to carry these games.

I think the only game in the 'somewhat' near horizon I can honestly say I'm willing to give a shot would be GW2. However, I'm not entirely sure if I'll be able to give that game a fair chance either. I loved the first game, both the story & strategy of it, but this genre is falling into a void it doesn't seem to be able to get out of.

I don't think anyone has really been able to pinpoint what this genre needs, but everyone seems to have at least one decent idea that would help. It's getting to the point where I doubt any one company has the time or resources to be able to bring whatever it is we all are looking for. It's going to have to happen gradually, over multiple games, and people are going to have to be able to give them enough of a chance to allow them to grow. In short, it's very possible that the genre may need to be re-designed from the ground up, if it's going to last as anything but a shell of it's potential.

I'll be honest with you, despite my post, I don't think there's anything really wrong with the games. The problem is that once you play one, you really can't tollerate another like it so soon after. Think about it. You do thousands of quests, spend hundreds of hours on a character, then you up and quit it to play another game. Yet that game has you doing thousands of similar quests, with similar class, and for what? To do similar things at endgame so you can do it all over agian in a future release? There's only so many quests you can do before you just get sick of doing quests. I can't even play single player RPG's anymore, because I'm just so burnt out on questing. It doesn't matter how good the story is. That's why I say I need to recharge my RPG batteries.

It'd help if games were more challenging. It'd make the games more enjoyable, but there is some draw in mindless hack n slash too. I for one am craving challenge right now. Challenge that only comes when a game forces you to choose between several equally appealing alternatives and forces you to follow through with those choices to conclusion. At this point though, I wouldn't appreciate it, because most developers prefer to deliver content in the form of quests, which as I said before I'm just burnt out on.

It doesn't help that I'll play anything these days. Before MMO's, I only picked up titles that were appealing to me. So I enjoyed every game I played. I started out that way with MMORPG's too. I played DAoC first, then SWG, and then I started my hunt for a replacement MMORPG. Most modern games rely on the same mechanics to get you to max level, and then endgame. There's nothing wrong with this, but it gets old and I personally can't play the same stuff year after year, especially when the game is not challenging at all.

Originally posted by nate1980

 

Yeah, Fallen Earth made my casualty list. It's not anywhere close to what you may expect. You'll see this yourself.

See what? That the game is better than all of the new games  released this year?

FE is awesome, and you have to remember it's an indie company and they're constantly releasing patches to fix things and improve stuff.
 

Most MMO gamers expect the end all be all immediately after release, learn some patience.

Originally posted by nate1980

The problem is that there isn't any challenge in the genre. No real choice either. I'm an intellectual person, who needs mental stimulation and challenge in his games. I like to make choices, and suffer the consequences for those choices, whether good or bad. All games in this genre are designed for the players to win, even if played in retard mode. Given that there aren't any intellectually stimulating games, I'm taking a break.

I know exactly how you feel.

The most recent  MMORPG I played actively for a decent period of time was Shadowbane. Now I know Shadowbane was not everyone's cup of tea, but since it was shut down, I and a lot of other SB players have not found anything close enough to match it, for some of the exact reasons you are being frustrated by the games you've tried at the moment.

I have been looking since SB shut down for ANYTHING which could compare with the challenge, the consequences, and the excitement SB provided, but I haven't found something remotely close... As I'm sure you know yourself

Now I don't want to make this into a SB promo... But it was an extremely challenging game due to the insane character customisation, which resulted in fighting a bunch of different spec groups in group versus group PvP... You always had to improvise, change, adapt to the situation at hand.

Also your choices had real consequences, not only for you, but for your guild. If you had a big mouth and decided to to trash some players from another guild, well then they were going to come to your city and if they were good enough, take it from you.

If someone finds a game which can compare, let me know. Until them I'm waiting for the Shadowbane Emulator. Just google it if you're interested.

Originally posted by Krilster

Originally posted by nate1980

 

Yeah, Fallen Earth made my casualty list. It's not anywhere close to what you may expect. You'll see this yourself.

 

See what? That the game is better than all of the new games  released this year?

FE is awesome, and you have to remember it's an indie company and they're constantly releasing patches to fix things and improve stuff.
 

Most MMO gamers expect the end all be all immediately after release, learn some patience.

What makes you think my problems with Fallen Earth were related to what you said? I never mentioned any problems, you just assumed. I'm letting him find out for himself, form his own opinions. The problems I had with it are core problems, not something that'll ever change, believe me. It doesn't make the game bad, just not for me. If you show some patience, things will reveal themselves.

Originally posted by MrGimpz

Originally posted by nate1980

The problem is that there isn't any challenge in the genre. No real choice either. I'm an intellectual person, who needs mental stimulation and challenge in his games. I like to make choices, and suffer the consequences for those choices, whether good or bad. All games in this genre are designed for the players to win, even if played in retard mode. Given that there aren't any intellectually stimulating games, I'm taking a break.

 

I know exactly how you feel.

 

The most recent  MMORPG I played actively for a decent period of time was Shadowbane. Now I know Shadowbane was not everyone's cup of tea, but since it was shut down, I and a lot of other SB players have not found anything close enough to match it, for some of the exact reasons you are being frustrated by the games you've tried at the moment.

 

I have been looking since SB shut down for ANYTHING which could compare with the challenge, the consequences, and the excitement SB provided, but I haven't found something remotely close... As I'm sure you know yourself

 

Now I don't want to make this into a SB promo... But it was an extremely challenging game due to the insane character customisation, which resulted in fighting a bunch of different spec groups in group versus group PvP... You always had to improvise, change, adapt to the situation at hand.

 

Also your choices had real consequences, not only for you, but for your guild. If you had a big mouth and decided to to trash some players from another guild, well then they were going to come to your city and if they were good enough, take it from you.

 

If someone finds a game which can compare, let me know. Until them I'm waiting for the Shadowbane Emulator. Just google it if you're interested.

I played that game briefly after it became free. It was challenging, as you say. A good game that could have used a lot more money to fine-tune the game.

Originally posted by nate1980

I played that game briefly after it became free. It was challenging, as you say. A good game that could have used a lot more money to fine-tune the game.

I think most people don't understand how deep it can get. At first glance it seems a fair bit complicated with the many races and classes, and over 80 traits to customise your character with at creation, as well as the large amount of runes to customise your character in game. But you get to know this stuff pretty quickly. The real depth comes in the solo, small scale, group versus group, and large scale PvP. There are so many strategies you can use, so many different ways to play the same group and the same character, and so many different ways to fight other groups. There is so much depth in bane stone placement, bulwark set up, coordinating trebuchets, positioning your guild.. I really could go on and on lol.

But unfortunately it isn't that easy on new players. You really need to get into a guild to experience the best aspects of it (in my opinion). But when you really get into the game... There is no escape ;)

And yes, it certainly could have used some more money,  that's for sure, and it's a pity because there is nothing I've found that can beat it's challenge it provides.

**Edit: Rewording**

Shadowbane captured many aspects of MMO that remain unequaled today.  However, on the down side, losing a city was very hard on some people, and they quit playing when their beloved city was turned into a trash heap with somebody else's flag on top of it.  It could be difficult to rebuild and reestablish yourself.

Still...my favorite thing was that the devs didn't kneejerk destroy unexpected builds, as it seems many devs do today.  Ye Olde Dagger Dwarf is a great example...I'm pretty confident that devs didn't expect to see dwarves dual wielding daggers being a potent threat, but...they were, and though they received some toning-down, they weren't outright destroyed the moment they gained a shred of popularity.

I'd pay to play that exact game built onto one of the newer Quake engines (or any other halfway decent engine, for that matter).  If it should happen, you're all welcome in my vamplock's PL group, we'll be running all night.

Honestly, if you're looking for a game that has the ability to challenge you and lets you intelligently customize your character (talking skills here, not just aesthetics), try Dungeons & Dragons Online. It's free to play with the most fair transaction store I've ever seen and if you decide to spend $15/month on it, you'll get a lot of additional stuff. You really don't need the micro transactions except for certain content, but that's not until you have a better feel for the game, so nothing up front for sure.

I don't currently play DDO b/c it is a bit too challenging for me and I have trouble in games where there are so many options, locking down to just one character at a time.

Try it if you've never tried it.

Just my 2¢.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Shannia

If you "completed" WOTLK in January, you are way behind the power curve and your gear is seriously lacking now.  Best get busy with it again or your gear will be so far behind at the next expansion, you won't find any groups.  The really BIG deal now is them checking your gear/achievements before they will group with you to ensure you know content.

 

 

Lol, sorry. Wow, sounds serious. I guess I better get on it. We all knows what happens in real life if you don't keep your gear upgraded in WoW, and god forbid the losers in WoW won't let me in their groups. In all seriousness and no sarcasm, I really don't care anymore.

I did the whole gear grind for Naxx and got all geared up and then was bored. I came back, as I said already, to try out the Ulduar raid, but left for Champions Online, Fallen Earth, and AION when I was faced with the prospect of playing 6 hours a night 2-3 times a week. No freakin' thanks. The people in WoW take raiding way too serious and are too hardcore for me thesedays. Playing 4-6 hours straight is nonsense, especially since the instance saves to you for 1 week, longer if you choose to extend it. A more appropriate approach, if for no other reason for health reasons, you should play no more than 3 hours in one sitting. But the community in WoW MUST complete the entire raid in one night. Like I said, at this point in my life, I don't care anymore. I'd love to raid, but the community takes it to the extreme. Instead of toning down the amount of time they raid each week, they prefer long ass runs. That isn't healthy.

If I do buy the new expansion, I'd reroll anyways, as a Worgen and would probably still quit after reaching the point where everyone who is any good wants to run 4-6 hour dungeons without splitting it up over a couple days.

I'm sorry if I came across rude to you, I have nothing against you at all. I wish you the best of luck, but the way you made it sound like getting gear in WoW is serious business just had me rolling. Most likely because it's 5 hours past my bedtime.

You were not rude at all.  I agree with the whole 6 hour a nite thing.  That is just nuts.  I quit and come back over and over again.  I'm hoping STO or SWTOR will be enough of a difference for me that I won't look back at WoW and resub.  I can't do the hours on end anymore either.  I'm into my 40s now and I do need my exercise so I don't get stiff.  Besides that, I'm working on dropping my WoW weight that I gained during the first three years I was in beta and live.  Drinking all that soda to keep awake for raiding marathons was just nuts and now I'm having to work it all off.

My whole point was that if you are ever planning on going back to it, stay on top of WoW as far as gear goes.  Once you get too far behind, it's just a hastle to get caught up again.  People like to talk about how "care bear" WoW is, and I find that to be the biggest lie on these forums.  I have been playing MMORPGs for 15 years and WoW is far more time demanding than M59, UO, or EQ ever was.

The one cool part about WoW now is that you can level up in PvP if that is your thing.  Big difference than the normal level grind.

Originally posted by Honkie

Shadowbane captured many aspects of MMO that remain unequaled today.  However, on the down side, losing a city was very hard on some people, and they quit playing when their beloved city was turned into a trash heap with somebody else's flag on top of it.  It could be difficult to rebuild and reestablish yourself.

Still...my favorite thing was that the devs didn't kneejerk destroy unexpected builds, as it seems many devs do today.  Ye Olde Dagger Dwarf is a great example...I'm pretty confident that devs didn't expect to see dwarves dual wielding daggers being a potent threat, but...they were, and though they received some toning-down, they weren't outright destroyed the moment they gained a shred of popularity.

I'd pay to play that exact game built onto one of the newer Quake engines (or any other halfway decent engine, for that matter).  If it should happen, you're all welcome in my vamplock's PL group, we'll be running all night.

You're right Honkie, loosing a city was hard, and when you lost a city you had two options.

1.Quit and give-up because the other team was better than you.

2. Get you and your guilds act together, work on your spec group, work on your coordination, and do your best to beat them the next time.

Due to the nature of SB being very complicated and that there were many well coordinated PvP guilds, many people went with Option 1 because it was easier.

I agree with your point about Dev's being open to player driven change, and it was necessary due to Shadowbane being a completely player driven world.

Many people would pay to play SB with updated graphics (personally I love the graphics the way they are, and on the highest quality the graphics are actually very good) and a better engine. But I don't see that coming for a while lol. In the meantime, all I can hope for is the Shadowbane Emulator!

Originally posted by Shannia

If you "completed" WOTLK in January, you are way behind the power curve and your gear is seriously lacking now.  Best get busy with it again or your gear will be so far behind at the next expansion, you won't find any groups.  The really BIG deal now is them checking your gear/achievements before they will group with you to ensure you know content.

 

Newer expansions in WoW have always been for newbies.  Back when I played they had 40 man instances, and newbie guilds stood no chance in zones like BWL or AQ40.  That is when WoW was in its prime.  Now it is degraded to a game where any moron could do their endgame.  

I agree with the op about the game just not being "intellectual" anymore.  The fact that the game has become so easy just shows you what Blizzard is doing, trying to make their endgame gear more accessible to lousy players.  So the effect is that the skilled players get screwed because the content is trivial farm content.

EQ had a way more challenging PvE / PvP system.  WoW had a decent one for a while, but it's like they scale down the difficulty of their instances exponentially with the number of players. 

Originally posted by nate1980

The problem is that there isn't any challenge in the genre. No real choice either. I'm an intellectual person, who needs mental stimulation and challenge in his games. I like to make choices, and suffer the consequences for those choices, whether good or bad. My first experience and majority experience with the RPG genre has been games that offered lots of choices, in both character customization/progression and the story element.

Challenge: GW2
Story Choices: TOR

Other than that, maybe check out Fallen Earth or The Secret World.
Imo there are quite a few promising games on the horizon.