Originally posted by Dragonalf

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by Dragonalf

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by mmaize

This question is to Jon Wood: Is the intent of this site to let every review stand on it's own? Or do you guys shoot for a score that compares the new games merits to those that have come before it ... i.e. a relative scoring approach?

Based on the data posted by xyzax, it appears you guys are using a "vacuum" approach to reviews. The reviewer fairly admits that the game does nothing new which screams "average", 7 out of 10, a 'C' grade to most people. He unabashedly admits he likes the art style and there is a general overly-enthusiastic tone to the whole piece. A neutral reader can't help but come away from the review thinking that the meat of the review does not match the tone and final score of the review.

I believe in order for reviews to mean something beyond being a fanboy or hater dissertation corroborating their point of view, there has to be meaning to the scale. A relational approach is more useful in that one can, at a glance, look at the rating of a new game and be able to compare it to the highest (and lowest) rated games to get a relative feel of it's place in the MMO universe.

From the body of evidence around the web and within the MMORPG review itself, the consensus is that Aion is a solid but generic MMO title but certainly not a trendsetter as the MMORPG rating portends.

 

Answer these questions.  And no I'm not being smart@ss.  What other major MMO title has done aerial combat/character flight (meaning no mount.)  What other major MMO has a combat system that allows for chains to be connected in such a way that you don't have to worry about putting them all into your tool bar?  What other MMO has a world that is comprised in layers and has an abyss that is also comprised of layers and a multiple artifact system that can turn the tide of a pvp raid?  Personal hand crafted guild icons?  The rift system? 

Again I'm not being smart I'm really asking what else is out there that does some of these things really?  Because if not then I'd call some of these things if not all in it's entire package trend setting for it's genre.

 

Still waiting on answers...

Not meaning to be flippant here but what you're asking is really irrelevant to the discussion about the validity of the rating as pertaining to the content of the MMORPG review and then comparing it to other MMO reviews on this site.

You may feel these are exceptional points to make but apparently the MMORPG reviewer did not feel the same way. I can only assume that if he personally felt these were worthy of mention, he would have. Yet, he does go out of his way to point out that, in general, Aion does nothing really new or spectacular ...

 

The point is completely relevant considering the fact that people keep mentioning innovation as a sticking point.  So if there's no contest to the questions of what Aion brings to the table then obviously it is innovative and therefore should contribute to the rating regardless if the reviewer that is being critiqued did so or not.  In otherwords if someone is going to use that against the reviewer then they better be able to answer to the things that are indeed innovative.

 

I disagree. Also, where did you get the impression that no one contests whether it is innovative or not. I hadn't got that impression from some other comments in this thread (as well as other sites). But that's not really the point under discussion ...

It seems your saying that one should have beforehand knowledge about Aion and apply that through the appropriate filter when reading a new review. That's a little dubious to assume. What if it's the first review that someone happens to read on the game? If the reviewer didn't mention these points then we can't necessarily assume he meant to or not. You have to take the review for what it is and not filter it through assumption-filtered glasses. 

In the end, you're arguing about whether Aion, in general, is innovative not on the relevancy of the review as written on this site. They're two different points ...

I believe I already stated that those are two separate points which you would have seen had you followed the thread.  This particular point was in response to those making the argument that Aion is in no way innovative and therefore doesn't deserve the review.  

Aion is a well polished game and has a lot to offer. I enjoy playing it.

However, as the reviewer stated, the problem with Aion is not with the game . . but with NCSoft itself . . . specifically, NCSoft West. As a former Lineage 2 player, I can tell you that NCSoft West's support was without doubt the worst I have ever seen in a MMO. If anything, NCSoft West is even worse with Aion.

NCSoft West needs to realize that even though this game scored an 8.7 on MMORPG.COM's review, their lack of support and apathy toward its players lowers this score by 5 points in my eyes. 

Get with the program NCSoft. In today's economy, people are not as patient and forgiving as they used to be.

I love how people get bent  out of shape over a meaningless review, which they all are.  The score means nothing in the long run, smart people don't base buying games off of others reviews (since all they are is opinions anyways)

Smart people wait for trials etc.  Anyways this is why i dislike scores being added to reviews, because everyone over-reacts to the score because it doesn't fit their Opinion on it, never mind the fact that people seem to forget everyone has different tastes and this Aion score, while good for some, isn't good for others.

Perhaps you folks running MMORPG should consider not giving scores anymore and just give reviews.+

Originally posted by 1niceone1

Originally posted by tanoril

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by Dragonalf

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by mmaize

This question is to Jon Wood: Is the intent of this site to let every review stand on it's own? Or do you guys shoot for a score that compares the new games merits to those that have come before it ... i.e. a relative scoring approach?

Based on the data posted by xyzax, it appears you guys are using a "vacuum" approach to reviews. The reviewer fairly admits that the game does nothing new which screams "average", 7 out of 10, a 'C' grade to most people. He unabashedly admits he likes the art style and there is a general overly-enthusiastic tone to the whole piece. A neutral reader can't help but come away from the review thinking that the meat of the review does not match the tone and final score of the review.

I believe in order for reviews to mean something beyond being a fanboy or hater dissertation corroborating their point of view, there has to be meaning to the scale. A relational approach is more useful in that one can, at a glance, look at the rating of a new game and be able to compare it to the highest (and lowest) rated games to get a relative feel of it's place in the MMO universe.

From the body of evidence around the web and within the MMORPG review itself, the consensus is that Aion is a solid but generic MMO title but certainly not a trendsetter as the MMORPG rating portends.

 

Answer these questions.  And no I'm not being smart@ss.  What other major MMO title has done aerial combat/character flight (meaning no mount.)  What other major MMO has a combat system that allows for chains to be connected in such a way that you don't have to worry about putting them all into your tool bar?  What other MMO has a world that is comprised in layers and has an abyss that is also comprised of layers and a multiple artifact system that can turn the tide of a pvp raid?  Personal hand crafted guild icons?  The rift system? 

Again I'm not being smart I'm really asking what else is out there that does some of these things really?  Because if not then I'd call some of these things if not all in it's entire package trend setting for it's genre.

 

Still waiting on answers...

Not meaning to be flippant here but what you're asking is really irrelevant to the discussion about the validity of the rating as pertaining to the content of the MMORPG review and then comparing it to other MMO reviews on this site.

You may feel these are exceptional points to make but apparently the MMORPG reviewer did not feel the same way. I can only assume that if he personally felt these were worthy of mention, he would have. Yet, he does go out of his way to point out that, in general, Aion does nothing really new or spectacular ...

 

The point is completely relevant considering the fact that people keep mentioning innovation as a sticking point.  So if there's no contest to the questions of what Aion brings to the table then obviously it is innovative and therefore should contribute to the rating regardless if the reviewer that is being critiqued did so or not.  In otherwords if someone is going to use that against the reviewer then they better be able to answer to the things that are indeed innovative.

 

It's not innovative.  Rifting actually is limiting since it's not true open world PvP.  I'm not sure what you mean by a layered gameworld but you can make the argument that the abyss is just one huge Battleground.  Wings are nice, but again innovative?  Hell, we can say WWIIOnline has aerial combat because it has planes. 

The reviewer himself says that Aion doesn't do anything new.  What it does do it does well.  I think that makes it a very straightfoward, vanilla game.  There's nothing wrong with that, but the review score doesn't indicate that. 

 

 

In the end a dildo with wings is innovative, that does not however mean it is a good idea, or good in practice. 

 

I am actually not a little disgusted in this review of Aion, sure it's polished and clean but ultimately it is far from deserving of a score of 8.7! I smell something fishy going on here...smells like...tuna. I suppose, in the end, the review is entirely subjective and should be treated as such but I expected more from mmorpg.com...

So then based upon your assesment if 2.5 million people order the dildo on wings such as they have subscribed to Aion accordint to MMO data, then obviously it's not a good idea or practice?  Apparently people seem to have a different opinion.  Now whether or not those innovative ideas are enough to provide the staying power it needs to continue to be competitive is another story.  As far as your expectations, I'd imagine that your like the rest looking for as much negativity as you can garner from the review so you can sleep better at night.  But the one thing you said that does actually make some sense is that it is subjective as are all reviews that aren't based upon some standard predefined measuring system and unfortunately for you many of the things that an MMO brings to the table like, oh I dunno, fun? are in fact subjective.

Preach it Brother

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 I think Solareus made the best post ever on mmorpg. Therefore read the above once more.

This one and the follow up he posted where the found out the "reviewer" lived next door to the publishers.

Grtz Sol. Tx to you we see much clearer now.

And ... btw NOT a word from the mmorpg.com staff in sight. Although clearly 90% of the posters here found the 8.7 a laugh COMPARED to other games. The site has always been a disgrace to Blizzard. Now it is full of a joke.

Kneel down for the next 13 in a dozen Korean for the next 2 years.

MMORPG.COM is from now on your trustworthy source !!!

Wow really dude?  Can you be any further on blizzards crotch?  Sorry but Blizzard is one other company among hundreds trying to compete in a market place.   I mean if Blizzards is in fact the king of MMOs and is the one making all the money then wouldn't you think that the reviews would be posting in their favor?  No?  Because there is some mass conspiracy against Blizzard?

Get real please.  These aren't Korean reviews nor are all of these guys 'suddenly' in the pocket of NCsoft. 

Amazing what some of these threatened WoW players come up with.  I bet you stay up at night over this crap.

This sight has officially lost all credibility  <-----People keep saying this, why? because MMORPG won't follow your personal opinion of a game? rather childish as far as i'm concerned.

Really people if that's how you feel, please find a place that is more credible.  perhaps you'll just have to make your own, that way you can have the scores you wish to see, so you can feel better about yourself.

Originally posted by mmaize

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 I think Solareus made the best post ever on mmorpg. Therefore read the above once more.

This one and the follow up he posted where the found out the "reviewer" lived next door to the publishers.

Grtz Sol. Tx to you we see much clearer now.

And ... btw NOT a word from the mmorpg.com staff in sight. Although clearly 90% of the posters here found the 8.7 a laugh COMPARED to other games. The site has always been a disgrace to Blizzard. Now it is full of a joke.

Kneel down for the next 13 in a dozen Korean for the next 2 years.

MMORPG.COM is from now on your trustworthy source !!!

 

Wow really dude?  Can you be any further on blizzards crotch?  Sorry but Blizzard is one other company among hundreds trying to compete in a market place.   I mean if Blizzards is in fact the king of MMOs and is the one making all the money then wouldn't you think that the reviews would be posting in their favor?  No?  Because there is some mass conspiracy against Blizzard?

Get real please.  These aren't Korean reviews nor are all of these guys 'suddenly' in the pocket of NCsoft. 

Amazing what some of these threatened WoW players come up with.  I bet you stay up at night over this crap.

 

AWW come on Zorndorf does make for some funny conspiracy post at times, but once and a while he does come up with some credible info even though he is a Bliizard jokey rider.

I can happily say I have been coming to this site since it was introduced, and for the most part I have loved my many years here. But This Aion review really pisses me off. During the ENTIRE review, I could barely get any good creditable info on the game I might by, all I could read sounded like some 14 year old Korean kid whos been waiting on Aion for 5 years.

The most one sided review I have ever seen. Next time hit end level and really dig deep into the endgame, and give us some friggin information instead of just gloss and frosting.

Originally posted by Player_420

I can happily say I have been coming to this site since it was introduced, and for the most part I have loved my many years here. But This Aion review really pisses me off. During the ENTIRE review, I could barely get any good creditable info on the game I might by, all I could read sounded like some 14 year old Korean kid whos been waiting on Aion for 5 years.

 

The most one sided review I have ever seen. Next time hit end level and really dig deep into the endgame, and give us some friggin information instead of just gloss and frosting.

So again, help me out here people.  What your saying is that you can only get credible information on a game by the negative reviews that are made about it?

To each there own I guess, Aion is a bland, repetitive, albeit highly polished grinder to me. (with really poor customer service and an issue with gold sellers and botting to be honest)...its does what it sets out to do in a very stable but very uninspired way. In effect it's just more of the same, like the third or fourth sequel to a superhero movie franchise that keeps racking in the cash despite not improving :p

Personally its a 7(ish) for me, if you just wat another on rails, hand holding, MMO experience in a polished and eastern themed game-world than Aion is worth a shot if you are tired of WoW.

uuuh did you read the post you quoted?

I said the review wasnt full of much usful information I didnt already know, and anything negative he did mention was glossed over with fluff.

My point is that this review was written by an obvious loyal fan of Aion...Whats your point? That you really like this game cause your the "abyss stalker" and a standard Asian grinder MMO that brings NOTHING new to the table besides wings deserves the best review score on the site?

Originally posted by Player_420

uuuh did you read the post you quoted?

I said the review wasnt full of much usful information I didnt already know, and anything negative he did mention was glossed over with fluff.

My point is that this review was written by an obvious loyal fan of Aion...Whats your point? That you really like this game cause your the "abyss stalker" and a standard Asian grinder MMO that brings NOTHING new to the table besides wings deserves the best review score on the site?

The question here is did you read the post?  I don't give a damn about your point.  My question is to you and everyone else saying the same thing about how the review is worthless and too positive, since you seemed to miss it, was "Do you only get credible information on a game by the negative reviews that are made about it?"

THAT is my question.  And btw, if you actually read the thread...you would have seen several things posted about what the MMO does bring to the table that is in fact new.  You might be tired of the genre but Aion does bring new things to the table.  I guess because I enjoyed WoW during my time there and several others in the vast array of MMOs I've experienced that I've obviously a fanboi for each of those games too and that it can't just be that I know a good game when I play one?  I don't give a damn if you don't but don't try painting me into a picture just because your threatened by a review.

You want to talk specifically about why this review is a bad one and what about it you disagree with and why then let's have that discussion.

Aiobn is a 8.7 , fallen earth is a 10

My review of Fallen Earth

I just shot a gun and itwas amazing, 10/10.

Originally posted by solareus

Aiobn is a 8.7 , fallen earth is a 10

 

My review of Fallen Earth

I just shot a gun and itwas amazing, 10/10.

Thanks for your great insight and you generous contribution to this discussion.

You achieved as much as many people on this thread (bash Aion) without 1/10th of the talk. Gratz

At least you didnt made us spent so much time reading it as some of the other haters

read about 3 pages back, I laid out my theroies and conspiracies lol. MMorPG has officially lost all street cred  to loyal followers.

If I were Turbine , Blizzard and any other big gaming company I would not even deal with mmorpg.com.

Originally posted by solareus

read about 3 pages back, I laiad out my theroies and conspiracies lol. MMorPG has officially lost all street cred  to loyal followers.

Yeah maybe next time they should ask you and others alike whats the score they should award.

Maybe that way their credibility could be conserved....

Originally posted by solareus

read about 3 pages back, I laiad out my theroies and conspiracies lol. MMorPG has officially lost all street cred  to loyal followers.

Yes, because if you hate a game, it's obviously a failure, so everyone who likes it is clearly out of their mind.

How much time do you spend every day looking for opportunities to bash Aion?  Isn't there some far superior game you should be spending your time playing?

your going to make me go line for line on this review arent you , with only 4 hour sleep ? 

/agree  Saying Aion is the best game ever reviewed on this site is a big stamement to make by a reviewer. And totally off base. I played Aion until lvl 29 and it's a pretty standard quest grind with some laggy crashing zerging PvP at the end. No more than a 7/10.

REad the review and count how many times the review states  something is "standard." 

The environments themselves can be quite spectacular. Aion definitely features a high fantasy setting with a very magical world, and there are plenty of unique and stunning places to explore.

really ?

There is also an awful lot of variety in each of the large zones as well. While you might start in a snowy region, you will soon find yourself in a lush forest, then in a menacing swamp, then in a desert area, etc... It may not always seem realistic, but it does allow for a fair amount of variety in the places you'll be in, which is nice.

Really, cause almost every screen I've seen is a cattle shooot straight tot he abyss with  no actual area fo exploration you would find in Vanguard, Really  Now. Man I'm about to go Ed Lover up is this bitch ... Really now ? gtfo of here dude , really ? gtfo....

When playing Aion, I noticed that the feeling of gameplay changes depending on your level range.

Really dude ? WReally now ? come on dude, come on

 wtf ? really, you mean the xp started to get harder ? really, are you kkidding me dude ? really , wtf ? (google ed lover )

Originally posted by solareus

REad the review and count how many times the review states  something is "standard." 

 

The environments themselves can be quite spectacular. Aion definitely features a high fantasy setting with a very magical world, and there are plenty of unique and stunning places to explore.

really ?

 

There is also an awful lot of variety in each of the large zones as well. While you might start in a snowy region, you will soon find yourself in a lush forest, then in a menacing swamp, then in a desert area, etc... It may not always seem realistic, but it does allow for a fair amount of variety in the places you'll be in, which is nice.

Really, cause almost every screen I've seen is a cattle shooot straight tot he abyss with  no actual area fo exploration you would find in Vanguard, Really  Now. Man I'm about to go Ed Lover up is this bitch ... Really now ? gtfo of here dude , really ? gtfo....

When playing Aion, I noticed that the feeling of gameplay changes depending on your level range.

Really dude ? WReally now ? come on dude, come on

 wtf ? really, you mean the xp started to get harder ? really, are you kkidding me dude ? really , wtf ? (google ed lover )

 this can go on for line for line , the review is completely bullshit.

what is bullshit is your opinion.  nobody cares.  get over yourself.

Do you speak for a legion of people ? who is this no one ?

Since the credibility of this website has been brought up for discussion, are there other websites dedicated only to MMORPG's?

What about websites that cover all games? Any reputable ones? I'm genuinely curious, because if I found a decent and objective, unbiased website, I'll go there. I'm not being sarcastic, I really would like to view some other gaming websites that pay any attention to MMORPG's. So if you can list some, I'll go check them out and add them to my favorites if they're any good.

Same thing applies to you, do you speak for a legion or just yourself?