Well that is what have happened.

New games are markedet as MMOG not MMORPG.

In all new games. Focus is set on combat and healing.

Games like Anarchy Online, SWG, Eve Online, where you have a choise what you want to do are not being made anylonger.

In SWG, if you dont have any interest in combat, you can basically be a crafter and not even toutch a weapon. Those kinds of games are getting rare.

This has a little to do with the mindset of the majority of players. The current generatioin are players that comes from "Normal" games like FPS and so on and they just want "action".

The pool of players that wants a "sandbox" are a minority so small that a game comany simply does not want put resources into making a game for us. This is why I have posted other threads about taking a little care of the games that actually have more of the MMORPG elements than other games. SWG  is one of them. But the hate towards that game is so huge and unreasonaable that I doubt even McGyver would be able to fix it. Its silly but thats its a reality.

Another thread at this forum asked if the hate towards FunCom should end. I think it should. I also think hate towards SOE should end. Its time to say enough is enough. Lets move on.  If you are going to hate a company hate one of the ones that are using children in a third world as workers.

In a game like SWG you can still be a crafter and entertainer and just craft and socialise. you can really decorate your house, to such an extent that if you are creative you can build almost anything (I  have even seen someone build a X-wing by using items cratively). That said, this is not a thread about SWG. But about MMORPGs.

In never MMOs, if they put in things like player housing. Its just half hearted and with huge limitations.

I will still use SWG  as an example. Because that is also a game very good for Roleplayers, and RPg in MMORPG  is about RP. And that element is also taken away in most newer games.In SWG  being an entertainer is mostly about RP and immersing into your avatart. Traveling around planets just dancing, chatting and socialising.  And the reality of that game, is that by boycotting it as many "veterans" and people does, in reality we send a message to devs, that we dont want games with more depth.

Numbers never lie. The games that are successfull are the simpler ones.  The ones where focus is set on combat and healing and pvp. And I  do not think that we will ever see the good MMORPGS again, because they cant be made by indy companies anylonger. It takes too much resources and lots of money. And simply too long (5 years + to develop).

A good old MMORPG does not have all the content of todays game. It had mechanics that made you as a player have to create your own content.

It seems like PVP, PVE is what is left. And thus those games become MMOG. Maybe this site should rename to MMOG.COM  instead of MMORPG.com ?

If you negate the existance of Wow, sandbox game is actually doing better than themepark game in the western world.

It's not sandbox vs themepark.  It's Wow vs everything else.

Originally posted by laokoko

If you negate the existance of Wow, sandbox game is actually doing better than themepark game in the western world.

It's not sandbox vs themepark.  It's Wow vs everything else.

I dont understand this..

Is game number 2, 3 or 4 after WoW sandbox ?.. I did not think they were or are. I mean besides Eve and SWG  (that still is more sandbox than most)  is there any games out there that are worth mentioned that are sandbox games?

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by laokoko

If you negate the existance of Wow, sandbox game is actually doing better than themepark game in the western world.

It's not sandbox vs themepark.  It's Wow vs everything else.

 

I dont understand this..

Is game number 2, 3 or 4 after WoW sandbox ?.. I did not think they were or are. I mean besides Eve and SWG  (that still is more sandbox than most)  is there any games out there that are worth mentioned that are sandbox games?

 

 

Have you noticed the consistent popularity of Eve?

With any luck Fallen Earth will continue adding sandbox features and see the same slowly increasing success.

You are talking less about sandboxes and more about MMORPG's that were virtual worlds vs just games which is what's being mostly made today.

I could create a theme park virtual world just as easily as a sandbox game, by including a large area to explore, deep crafting and economy, housing etc and still maintain classes/levels and quest oriented combat.

Developers these days think we want bare bones MMO's...(see WAR) where these other elements are purposely stripped down or omitted entirely.

Hey, WOW doesn't have housing, so why do we need housing?   Short sighted thinking, because in order to ever compete with WOW, you have to offer something more than WOW, and not just a subset of its features.

Of recent games I'd say LOTRO was one of the better ones, and notice, it has housing and more varied crafting than WOW.

One day some smart Developer will notice and we'll get a good, competitive game.

EvE is really the only sandbox on the market.   Sure SWG to a point but not as much as it used to be.

The rest are pretty linar in terms of leveling and content.

Originally posted by blueshadow

Well that is what have happened.

New games are markedet as MMOG not MMORPG.

In all new games. Focus is set on combat and healing.

Games like Anarchy Online, SWG, Eve Online, where you have a choise what you want to do are not being made anylonger.

In SWG, if you dont have any interest in combat, you can basically be a crafter and not even toutch a weapon. Those kinds of games are getting rare.

This has a little to do with the mindset of the majority of players. The current generatioin are players that comes from "Normal" games like FPS and so on and they just want "action".

The pool of players that wants a "sandbox" are a minority so small that a game comany simply does not want put resources into making a game for us. This is why I have posted other threads about taking a little care of the games that actually have more of the MMORPG elements than other games. SWG  is one of them. But the hate towards that game is so huge and unreasonaable that I doubt even McGyver would be able to fix it. Its silly but thats its a reality.

Another thread at this forum asked if the hate towards FunCom should end. I think it should. I also think hate towards SOE should end. Its time to say enough is enough. Lets move on.  If you are going to hate a company hate one of the ones that are using children in a third world as workers.

In a game like SWG you can still be a crafter and entertainer and just craft and socialise. you can really decorate your house, to such an extent that if you are creative you can build almost anything (I  have even seen someone build a X-wing by using items cratively). That said, this is not a thread about SWG. But about MMORPGs.

In never MMOs, if they put in things like player housing. Its just half hearted and with huge limitations.

I will still use SWG  as an example. Because that is also a game very good for Roleplayers, and RPg in MMORPG  is about RP. And that element is also taken away in most newer games.In SWG  being an entertainer is mostly about RP and immersing into your avatart. Traveling around planets just dancing, chatting and socialising.  And the reality of that game, is that by boycotting it as many "veterans" and people does, in reality we send a message to devs, that we dont want games with more depth.

Numbers never lie. The games that are successfull are the simpler ones.  The ones where focus is set on combat and healing and pvp. And I  do not think that we will ever see the good MMORPGS again, because they cant be made by indy companies anylonger. It takes too much resources and lots of money. And simply too long (5 years + to develop).

A good old MMORPG does not have all the content of todays game. It had mechanics that made you as a player have to create your own content.

It seems like PVP, PVE is what is left. And thus those games become MMOG. Maybe this site should rename to MMOG.COM  instead of MMORPG.com ?

 

Just semantics. Who cares? MMORPG is used because its label stick to people's mind. It is unrealistic to assume labels/names do not change their meaning over time.

If a MORPG is good, i wouldn't care less if it is called MMORPG, MORPG or anything else.

Actually MMORPG are supposed to add an element of roleplay... this has nothing to do with fantastic or class.

Well, all quality has been ripeed of movies, music, single player games, so it was only question of time when will something like that happen to MMO games, and since WOW made millions and showed everyone that MMO market is profatible one, it is only logical to assume that everyone else will start expoiting that market and dumbet it down as every single other which is already dumbed.

I completely agree with you.

No game that came out lately made me feel something. I get a game lets say Far Cry 2, Champions Online, Warhammer etc.

I Know they are different genres but they all feel the same; go there and kill that, go there and take that.

MMORPG's these days completely abandon the rp element and are turning into fps games with levels and items and call that the RPG elements.

Now its all just pvp focused mmos and then add pve if they have time.  I loved EQ2 and how it made me feel, made me feel special. When i achieve something it makes me feel good about my self and the general fantasy atmosphere that it creates is amazing.

All the races and classes were really interesting and crafting system is probably my favourite out of all ive played.

I know its not really advanced or anything but the music and the cosy little rooms and the crafting animations make me feel warm inside.

 Dev's don't care about people anymore, they just do it to make enough money to buy every other company and fuck everyone over to get more money like EA.

We should give some love to SOE imo they make the best PVE mmorpg's

Ryzom great sandbox game. It's had its run of bad luck with awful owners running it into the ground but a new owner has taken the reins fixed most of the bugs and is beginning to add new content. Definately one to keep an eye on if your a sandbox fan.

OP, you lost me at "im a SWG fanboy" are you complaining about low pop on your game? Combat has always been a central part of rpg games and will always remain an important element. There never really were games like "Swordforger" or "Basketweaver" in which crafting was the central mechanic. If your point is noncombat elements have been pushed outside of games or that they are loosing complexity, ill call you a liar to your face. A lot of work has been done since pre NGE SWG and if it feels the mechanics lack the "impact" they used to have, then maybe you should abandon the view that the way your game handles things is right for everyone.

What is your point? Getting people to agree with you that "sandbox" games are the best? Are you complaining actual role playing is dying? It was never the point of rp games as a genre, even back in the days people felt they had to role play on MMOs. Or is this just your trying to convince people we should all rally on a long dead game? Because tbh just crafting and socializing and decorating your house doesnt really make for a strong sales pitch.

Originally posted by Caleveira

OP, you lost me at "im a SWG fanboy" are you complaining about low pop on your game? Combat has always been a central part of rpg games and will always remain an important element. There never really were games like "Swordforger" or "Basketweaver" in which crafting was the central mechanic. If your point is noncombat elements have been pushed outside of games or that they are loosing complexity, ill call you a liar to your face. A lot of work has been done since pre NGE SWG and if it feels the mechanics lack the "impact" they used to have, then maybe you should abandon the view that the way your game handles things is right for everyone.

What is your point? Getting people to agree with you that "sandbox" games are the best? Are you complaining actual role playing is dying? It was never the point of rp games as a genre, even back in the days people felt they had to role play on MMOs. Or is this just your trying to convince people we should all rally on a long dead game? Because tbh just crafting and socializing and decorating your house doesnt really make for a strong sales pitch.

I would have to agree wtth this. A friend of mine had played SWG from the start, had a high level character and was very heavily into crafting.

He told me he quite because he realized that what he had signed into was a second job. He would sign in, fill his crafting orders from players and spend time getting mats and making things and yet he didn't really feel that he was playing "star wars" so much as that he had a second profession and one that he wasn't getting paid for.

I do however support the idea of players soley crafting if that is what they want to do. Especially because I can't stand it. There must be something in it that they can appreciate and I can't.

But when I hear players talk about SWG I find it hard to believe that what many talk about are the jobs, the crafting. It must have been great. However, when I was young and Star Wars first came out, none of my friends cornered our oher friends who had seen the movies and asked about Uncle Owen and what he was like as a farmer.

My only guess is that what these players miss is the social interaction that a full fledged crafting job allowed them to experience. Perhaps that is the thing that was really lost?

Massively (what's considered massive anyway?)

Multi-Player (more than two players)

Online (self explanatory)

Role-Playing (assuming a role while playing)

Game (is it really? or virtual world?)

I"ve always been bothered how this genre has been named.  Anyone agree?

Originally posted by Caleveira

OP, you lost me at "im a SWG fanboy" are you complaining about low pop on your game? Combat has always been a central part of rpg games and will always remain an important element. There never really were games like "Swordforger" or "Basketweaver" in which crafting was the central mechanic. If your point is noncombat elements have been pushed outside of games or that they are loosing complexity, ill call you a liar to your face. A lot of work has been done since pre NGE SWG and if it feels the mechanics lack the "impact" they used to have, then maybe you should abandon the view that the way your game handles things is right for everyone.

What is your point? Getting people to agree with you that "sandbox" games are the best? Are you complaining actual role playing is dying? It was never the point of rp games as a genre, even back in the days people felt they had to role play on MMOs. Or is this just your trying to convince people we should all rally on a long dead game? Because tbh just crafting and socializing and decorating your house doesnt really make for a strong sales pitch.

Well. I am not a SWG fanboy.

SWG  has combat. All games have combat. SWG  has house decorationg and socialising in a scale that other games do not have.

I would love to see a few more games like this. I  belong to an older generation of MMORPG  players and its very clear that we are a minority theese days. "modern"  players want simple games. I want a complex game.  One that takes months to figure out how things work.

SWG has been simplified too. It was more complex before.  I mean, you needed a creature handler to find out the level of a creature. No level above its head. No level above your head. Still today the game has more sandbox features than anything else.

Ultima Online was the first sandbox and basically set the standards. I  enjoy games where you dont have to follow a certain progression line.

I guess its me talking about SWG  that gives me the "fanboy" tag. Problem is that there are not many other games to talk about when it comes to sandbox.  I really wish there was. But I am afraid that theese kind of game and players like me have passed the sell by date.

In todays MMO marked you win and I  loose.I  guess its all a big hint to return to the best mmorpg of all :  RL :P

Originally posted by Chealar

Actually MMORPG are supposed to add an element of roleplay... this has nothing to do with fantastic or class.

COMPUTER role playing games, or CRPGs as they are called have a common element, character progression and your character determines the outcome of combat, not player skills.

Role Playing Games, or paper and pencil games as they are sometimes called, that are NOT played on a computer have a common element of playing a role, that is pretending to be someone else.

So as long as an MMORPG  has character progression, and the character determines the outcome of combat, it DOES have an element of roleplay, that is computer roleplay.

This is what a CRPG is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_role-playing_game#Character_development

An MMORPG is a subset of CRPG.

It is not a paper and pencil role playing game.

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by Caleveira

OP, you lost me at "im a SWG fanboy" are you complaining about low pop on your game? Combat has always been a central part of rpg games and will always remain an important element. There never really were games like "Swordforger" or "Basketweaver" in which crafting was the central mechanic. If your point is noncombat elements have been pushed outside of games or that they are loosing complexity, ill call you a liar to your face. A lot of work has been done since pre NGE SWG and if it feels the mechanics lack the "impact" they used to have, then maybe you should abandon the view that the way your game handles things is right for everyone.

What is your point? Getting people to agree with you that "sandbox" games are the best? Are you complaining actual role playing is dying? It was never the point of rp games as a genre, even back in the days people felt they had to role play on MMOs. Or is this just your trying to convince people we should all rally on a long dead game? Because tbh just crafting and socializing and decorating your house doesnt really make for a strong sales pitch.

Well. I am not a SWG fanboy.

SWG  has combat. All games have combat. SWG  has house decorationg and socialising in a scale that other games do not have.

I would love to see a few more games like this. I  belong to an older generation of MMORPG  players and its very clear that we are a minority theese days. "modern"  players want simple games. I want a complex game.  One that takes months to figure out how things work.

SWG has been simplified too. It was more complex before.  I mean, you needed a creature handler to find out the level of a creature. No level above its head. No level above your head. Still today the game has more sandbox features than anything else.

Ultima Online was the first sandbox and basically set the standards. I  enjoy games where you dont have to follow a certain progression line.

I guess its me talking about SWG  that gives me the "fanboy" tag. Problem is that there are not many other games to talk about when it comes to sandbox.  I really wish there was. But I am afraid that theese kind of game and players like me have passed the sell by date.

In todays MMO marked you win and I  loose.I  guess its all a big hint to return to the best mmorpg of all :  RL :P

Ever heard of this game called EVE? Im not so sure about the decorating part, but you should check it out if you dont want to be called a fanboy for claiming SWG is the game with the most sandbox features...

I think you should take a look at two titles that have arrived this year, Darkfall and Fallen Earth. Both are games heavy into the sandbox way of playing.

The games that you apparantly seem to like are still being made, they are just a lot more "quiet" than the big themepark games but they are generally doing well. You just have to open your eyes and take a look at what is being made today instead of looking back to the past only.

Originally posted by blueshadow 

I dont understand this..

Is game number 2, 3 or 4 after WoW sandbox ?.. I did not think they were or are. I mean besides Eve and SWG  (that still is more sandbox than most)  is there any games out there that are worth mentioned that are sandbox games?

Ya but if you take Aoc or warhammer for example they have probably like 50,000 player(just my guess).  It's not like there's any mmorpg worth mention at all.

In terms of western monty subscription game.  2 is probably aion, 3 is eve.  I don't know who's 4th.  I think lotro might be 4th.