Originally posted by StrixMaxima

If they are playing, they are legit. Doesn't matter if they are subs or trials. Heck, one trial, if presented with the possibility of killing and looting a ripe little old timer and grabbing several good items might even be compelled to join, don't you think?

This is the whole idea of the trial. Proving that your game is worthy of  people's money. I was a trial in many titles, and some of them won me over. Why are people so afraid of trials in DFO?

I have my theories.

I guess it depends on the definition of playing.  We all know that there will be people signing up for free trials that aren't going to sub.  Proving the game is one thing, but not at the cost of its paying members.  Free trials are too "exploitable" in df.

Tasos said everyone would get to try the game before playing it. It was just one of his many lies. Now the fanboys are trying to make excuses for him. Sad.

Originally posted by Ravik

Originally posted by lisubab

Yes I understand perfectly.  That is why I said its paradoxic.  Darkfall is a game where people pvp, kill each other, and loot each other down to the pants.  That is what players seek when joining this game.  Now, after joining, they do not want to pvp because they do not want to risk being looted to the pants?
 

Ok go back to ganking each other nake then.  Or just duel inside your own city.  Or go play WoW and duel.  You won't lose anything if you died.

Superiority by winning a fight is "superiority", well in some limited sense maybe.  Superiority by not fighting is cowardice.  Superiority by not allowing people to fight against you, simply by banning them from joining.... speechless.

 

It isn't the banning of new people form joining..it's the free trials that are the problem.  If someone wanted to buy the game and play its cool.  If 30 people wanted to buy the game and play then thats cool too.  They are spending the money and if they wanna screw around its all good cause they are legit players.

If free trails came along then thered be a good couple 100 people, most of whom will probably not subscribe, joining the game.  Dozens of noobs in df grouping up can kill a single player and steal his stuff.  Some dude can spend 10 minutes and create a dozen free trial accounts witht he sole purpose of fucking with people, and you know there is gonna be more then one dude doing this.  They have nothing to lose.  They aren't even legit players.  It has nothing to do with real pvp.  

It has nothing to do with "superiority" by being a better pvper.  If a dozen legit players grouped up and killed a lone guy and took his stuff its cool, thats how the game is played.  With trials it isn't like that.  They don't spend their money, they don't lose loot. 

What is the difference for you, if you are killed by 30 guys, whether they are trials or paid members?  You feel more hurt if trial members kill you?  The dagger hurts less if the player funds AV some money as sub?
 

DF will die when sub drops too low.  Trials MIGHT be one way to bring in more subs and hopefully extend its life cycle.  Trial MIGHT backfire of course.  That is something AV need to worry about.

As a player, your concern is to play your game.  IF you are afraid of losing to a zerg, play wise or log out.  Trying to discriminate some new players on the grounds of trial status?  Come on, this is supposed to be a game played by people who enjoy fighting and not worry about losing.

Originally posted by Ravik

Originally posted by StrixMaxima

If they are playing, they are legit. Doesn't matter if they are subs or trials. Heck, one trial, if presented with the possibility of killing and looting a ripe little old timer and grabbing several good items might even be compelled to join, don't you think?

This is the whole idea of the trial. Proving that your game is worthy of  people's money. I was a trial in many titles, and some of them won me over. Why are people so afraid of trials in DFO?

I have my theories.

 

I guess it depends on the definition of playing.  We all know that there will be people signing up for free trials that aren't going to sub.  Proving the game is one thing, but not at the cost of its paying members.  Free trials are too "exploitable" in df.

There are free trials in pretty much every game.  Including Eve, a game so many DF defenders pretend DF to be a successsor of.
 

Now suddenly DF is no longer similar to EvE when trial members might come in to rock the balance.  Now look at games like WoW, which is scorn by DF players as lowbie.  They run very successful trial programs.

A game whose design is so restrictive, that you cannot play well without a guild, you need to massively bot and grind skills, ... and now DF is described as a game in which common practices like free trials are too "exploitable".  What kind of game design we have in DF.  Total inflexibility, totally lacking in options.  Totally lacking in chance of surviving any change.

Huge difference between EVE and DF.

This is the problem with a trial in DF. I dont say im agenst it, its just how it is.

Right when you have created a character, it is on. You can turn to the left and attack someone. You and two friends can walk up to a crafter in the city and just kill him. Its happens all the time. A few hours work gone in 12 seconds. But you find your revenge later.

If this is done by "trials" its no fun anymore. Every hater of DF will make  a character just to mess with people. And you wil never be able to hunt them down and kill them....because they wont be in the game for long : (

Originally posted by daarco

Huge difference between EVE and DF.

This is the problem with a trial in DF. I dont say im agenst it, its just how it is.

Right when you have created a character, it is on. You can turn to the left and attack someone. You and two friends can walk up to a crafter in the city and just kill him. Its happens all the time. A few hours work gone in 12 seconds. But you find your revenge later.

If this is done by "trials" its no fun anymore. Every hater of DF will make  a character just to mess with people. And you wil never be able to hunt them down and kill them....because they wont be in the game for long : (

 

Would you consider there to be a huge difference between UO or SB and DF?
 

UO has Free Trials.

SB had Free Trials.

You've been around for quite awhile daarco... you have to remember the pre-launch talking points from Tasos. 

Do you remember anyone saying: "Heh, I don't think DarkFall should have Free Trials, they just won't work." ?

Is the gameplay so different now that the game has launched from what it was said to be before launch?

I seem to remember it being said that it would be FFA PvP with full loot before launch.  I also seem to remember it being said that it would be "on" from the time you create your character.  So, if that hasn't changed, then why the sudden change in attitude towards a Free Trial?

If there was even a small fraction of opposition towards a Free Trial before the game launched, then I could understand the opposition to it now.  But, as I said; considering there was ZERO opposition to it before launch... why the change now?

Waiting for a free trial for Darkfail is like waiting for a free kick in the balls lol.. Unbelievable..

Originally posted by daarco

Huge difference between EVE and DF.

This is the problem with a trial in DF. I dont say im agenst it, its just how it is.

Right when you have created a character, it is on. You can turn to the left and attack someone. You and two friends can walk up to a crafter in the city and just kill him. Its happens all the time. A few hours work gone in 12 seconds. But you find your revenge later.

If this is done by "trials" its no fun anymore. Every hater of DF will make  a character just to mess with people. And you wil never be able to hunt them down and kill them....because they wont be in the game for long : (

Just curious, but would it hurt less if it was a paying character that eliminated that few hours of work? Unless they were running around with a big sign over their heads that said "TRIAL", how would you even know if it was a new or experienced player that killed you? Wouldn't you use the same tactics to determine whether you should fight or avoid someone regardless of their account status? For a "hardcore" pvp game, there seems to be a lot of fear around fighting new players.

I think an isolated "island" (maybe like Ryzom) would be a good way to go just to keep older players from greifing the trial accounts, but at the same time, DF being non-instanced, you would figure the island would still be reachable unless it were its own server. Also, there would probably need to be some mechanics to keep people from signing up multiple trials thought I think a CC might not be the best approach for reasons mentioned already.

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by daarco

Huge difference between EVE and DF.

This is the problem with a trial in DF. I dont say im agenst it, its just how it is.

Right when you have created a character, it is on. You can turn to the left and attack someone. You and two friends can walk up to a crafter in the city and just kill him. Its happens all the time. A few hours work gone in 12 seconds. But you find your revenge later.

If this is done by "trials" its no fun anymore. Every hater of DF will make  a character just to mess with people. And you wil never be able to hunt them down and kill them....because they wont be in the game for long : (

 

Would you consider there to be a huge difference between UO or SB and DF?
 

UO has Free Trials.

SB had Free Trials.

 

You've been around for quite awhile daarco... you have to remember the pre-launch talking points from Tasos. 

Do you remember anyone saying: "Heh, I don't think DarkFall should have Free Trials, they just won't work." ?

Is the gameplay so different now that the game has launched from what it was said to be before launch?

I seem to remember it being said that it would be FFA PvP with full loot before launch.  I also seem to remember it being said that it would be "on" from the time you create your character.  So, if that hasn't changed, then why the sudden change in attitude towards a Free Trial?

 

If there was even a small fraction of opposition towards a Free Trial before the game launched, then I could understand the opposition to it now.  But, as I said; considering there was ZERO opposition to it before launch... why the change now?

First, as i said....i have no problem with a trial. I would love to see one.

But i understand why some people have problem with that idea.  SB is a levelbased MMO, so no problem there. UO, i have no idea. Is there a island or something?

All right guys..maybe one day free trials will show up in df, idk.  But personally I don't think they would be a good idea unless they had their own server which we all know wouldn't happen either.

Let me try to explain again.  If there are free trials 100s of people will try the game (I know it sounds all good and everything..)  Some of these people will play the game and try it out...Some will use the free trials to grief and hack for the sole purpose of ruining the game.  You can say this can happen to any game but df is different in that regard as most of you probably know by know.  If they tied cc numbers to trial accounts then I would be ok.  It's just a guarantee that people will abuse free trials and in df players have the ability to screw  more with the game then in other games. 

What if suddenly in eve tons of new trial accoutns opened up and started hacking.  They get banned in which they lose nothing and open more free tiral accounts and start hackign again.  That is what will happen in df which doesn't happen in other games.  I have nothing against free trials themselves but players will abuse it to the extremes which isn't excatly hard to do in df. 

Originally posted by Ravik

All right guys..maybe one day free trials will show up in df, idk.  But personally I don't think they would be a good idea unless they had their own server which we all know wouldn't happen either.

Let me try to explain again.  If there are free trials 100s of people will try the game (I know it sounds all good and everything..)  Some of these people will play the game and try it out...Some will use the free trials to grief and hack for the sole purpose of ruining the game.  You can say this can happen to any game but df is different in that regard as most of you probably know by know.  If they tied cc numbers to trial accounts then I would be ok.  It's just a guarantee that people will abuse free trials and in df players have the ability to screw  more with the game then in other games. 

What if suddenly in eve tons of new trial accoutns opened up and started hacking.  They get banned in which they lose nothing and open more free tiral accounts and start hackign again.  That is what will happen in df which doesn't happen in other games.  I have nothing against free trials themselves but players will abuse it to the extremes which isn't excatly hard to do in df. 

Everything you posted has been going on with every other game for over a decade. WTF is so special about DnF that they can't offer what Lord and Liar Tacos promised everyone would be able to do......try out the game for free?

Guess they are even more amatuerish then I thought they were.

Oh BTW several pages back someone made the ignorant comment that FFA PVP in EQ was different. LOL just another noob shillbot trying to spin I see.

I used to loose everything on Sullon Zek which is why I carried tons of copper coins to slow down the ganker and make him easy pickings to everyone else.

Nice try, know about what you write before you make a total fool out of yourself...oh wait this is the DnF forum isn't it? My bad.

There are a million ways way to offer a trial in a full loot PVP game- A million.

The only reason (IMO) no trial exists is because the game is pretty bad. I normally dont assume things like this (until I try them myself) but having seen the treatment of people asking for a trial on the DF Forums and the overhanded methods of Mods closing Threads left and right and not allowing discussion/debate (even worse than SOE in this regard) AND having followed this game for YEARS (funny that my Forum Register Date on DF is from 07 I think and people with a Forum Date of 09 are the "expert's" on what DF did and did not promise.)

Having followed this game for so long- I remember that it was stated MANY times that a trial would e offered- Unfortunatly the Beta was a disaster, the launch a disaster, word of mouth was really bad, features were missing or not working and NOW 8-9 months after launch (I think) the DF Forum is  basiclly only welcoming of Fanbois, no free trial (but a plethora of excuses) and still- Woprd on this game is that its a paid Beta.

Ive given up on DF- really. After following them for so long and watching them renig and lie constantly and then see what has happened on the Forums (which in the early days were a bastion of free speech and opinion)  I really no longer care.

The idea is great and I hope the people playing it enjoy the game for what it is.

Originally posted by bluegrazz

There are a million ways way to offer a trial in a full loot PVP game- A million.

The only reason (IMO) no trial exists is because the game is pretty bad. I normally dont assume things like this (until I try them myself) but having seen the treatment of people asking for a trial on the DF Forums and the overhanded methods of Mods closing Threads left and right and not allowing discussion/debate (even worse than SOE in this regard) AND having followed this game for YEARS (funny that my Forum Register Date on DF is from 07 I think and people with a Forum Date of 09 are the "expert's" on what DF did and did not promise.)

Having followed this game for so long- I remember that it was stated MANY times that a trial would e offered- Unfortunatly the Beta was a disaster, the launch a disaster, word of mouth was really bad, features were missing or not working and NOW 8-9 months after launch (I think) the DF Forum is  basiclly only welcoming of Fanbois, no free trial (but a plethora of excuses) and still- Woprd on this game is that its a paid Beta.

Ive given up on DF- really. After following them for so long and watching them renig and lie constantly and then see what has happened on the Forums (which in the early days were a bastion of free speech and opinion)  I really no longer care.

The idea is great and I hope the people playing it enjoy the game for what it is.

I've always suspected that the reason behind there not being a free trial was either they know the game is not ready, or they just can't afford the servers and bandwidth.  Either way it's not a good sign.