What about Pepsi

Burger King, Wendy's

Church's Fried Chicken, Popeye's

Toyota, Ford,

Apple, Dell

All "second best" companies and any I wouldn't mind owning...

So what is it with the mmo world and this common mentality that if a new mmo doesn't kill WoW it doesn't matter, it's not worth playing?

Some people feel that way, not all of us.

I put that type of talk in the same category saying a game is a failure b4 its even been released. I pay no mind to them.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH looks for a frum troll to fire a plunger at)

We need more overgeneralization threads.

Overgeneralization statements are always highly accurate.  Every single one.

You can pretty much say it's a failure if the retail box sale and actual sub numbers decrease about 80% over the span of 1-2 month.

At least a financial failure.

I never understood the WoW killer thing.  How is another game suppose to kill WoW, when WoW did not kill any other games when it dropped? 

Yeah, it's the same for the iphone, why should the MMO product be any different? ;)

Originally posted by dstar.

I never understood the WoW killer thing.  How is another game suppose to kill WoW, when WoW did not kill any other games when it dropped? 

WoW killed EQ and other games before it.... It took subs from those games.  That is what the word "kill" means in this text.

No game is going to beat WoW numbers, IE not going to be a "WoW killer" due to Blizzard being a very smart company and knows how to keep its population happy and paying (playing).

The only game that will knock WoW out of first place is the next Blizzard game.  Unless a developer finally steps out from the "norm" and makes a great MMORPG.   (Great = many different opinions though) 

IMO a great MMORPGS needs: an open world, skill based charater development, PvP/RvR, Player choice though out the game, player skill driven PvP, and group focused content with some solo content.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by dstar.

I never understood the WoW killer thing.  How is another game suppose to kill WoW, when WoW did not kill any other games when it dropped? 

 

WoW killed EQ and other games before it.... It took subs from those games.  That is what the word "kill" means in this text.

No game is going to beat WoW numbers, IE not going to be a "WoW killer" due to Blizzard being a very smart company and know how to keep its population happy and paying (playing).

The only game that will knock WoW out of first place is the next Blizzard game.  Unless a developer finally steps out from the "norm" and makes a great MMORPG.   (Great = many different opinions though) 

Those games are still going though with communities, they weren't shut down.  Every game that comes out takes subs from other games.

unfortunetly if you look back say 10yrs ago (pre-wow)  you would see very few of the insta-failure threads. what we have now days are what i tend to generally call the WoW days.. everyone tends to agree as a game, WoW after awhile has long since lost its luster and fun. but what WoW did that was sorta benifitual was open the MMO gaming area to people who never played MMOs they are the RTS.. RPG... FPSers and such. so for that WoW did a nice thing overall.. the annoying and sad part is... alot of the gamers in MMOs now are mostly WoW players and as such. they want.... need a game to topple WoW so they can worship it like they did WoW... now anyone with an IQ higher then a rock.. will know, to repeat WoW's success is very hard (unless you have the mass budget and time WoW had to develop) as well as kind of foolish.. its like counting chickens before hatching sorta deal.

the draw back is players want their games NOW... if they dont get it NOW its a fail. if they think it looks like WoW ... its fail (companies are stupid in trying to repeat some of WoW's selling points by cloning them :/)  so because of all this... there are threads upon threads of "X game is fail" until either WoW shuts down totally or a game comes out that WoW players can finally say.. "YA that one is on par with WoW" we wont see an end to fail threads. just how the MMO side is going now.

i generally look at videos and reviews of games by players and paid people. as well as look at the game it self it fails on its own merits.. not weither or not it sold a trillion boxed versions or if while playing it, it will walk my dog.. paint my house.. make my bed and make me dinner... (tho all those would really be nice O_O)  games have to stand and fall on their own.. and not by compairing it to WoW... unless its a private server hosting WoW.. or its a new blizzard mmo... called WoW 2... or something ...

BUT ofcourse all this is my own opionon ... to each his own i guess

Originally posted by Ichmen

unfortunetly if you look back say 10yrs ago (pre-wow)  you would see very few of the insta-failure threads. what we have now days are what i tend to generally call the WoW days.. everyone tends to agree as a game, WoW after awhile has long since lost its luster and fun. but what WoW did that was sorta benifitual was open the MMO gaming area to people who never played MMOs they are the RTS.. RPG... FPSers and such. 

So in other words a game that wants to hold the numbers such as WoW it would need to appeal to gamers from all genres.  Which really WoW is still the only mmo that does that.

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by dstar.

I never understood the WoW killer thing.  How is another game suppose to kill WoW, when WoW did not kill any other games when it dropped? 

 

WoW killed EQ and other games before it.... It took subs from those games.  That is what the word "kill" means in this text.

No game is going to beat WoW numbers, IE not going to be a "WoW killer" due to Blizzard being a very smart company and know how to keep its population happy and paying (playing).

The only game that will knock WoW out of first place is the next Blizzard game.  Unless a developer finally steps out from the "norm" and makes a great MMORPG.   (Great = many different opinions though) 

Those games are still going though with communities, they weren't shut down.  Every game that comes out takes subs from other games.

Those communities are nothing compared to what they used to be, hense WoW killed the game.  Sure the games are still live and people are still playing but they are not what they used to be.
 

The example is EQ1, I used to never ever have a problem finding a group.  Today it is very hard to find a group outside of my guild.    I am not saying WoW is to blame but because of WoW it has changed my gameplay experince in EQ1.

I also played WoW for a year or so but got bored and went back to EQ1.

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by Ichmen

unfortunetly if you look back say 10yrs ago (pre-wow)  you would see very few of the insta-failure threads. what we have now days are what i tend to generally call the WoW days.. everyone tends to agree as a game, WoW after awhile has long since lost its luster and fun. but what WoW did that was sorta benifitual was open the MMO gaming area to people who never played MMOs they are the RTS.. RPG... FPSers and such. 

 

So in other words a game that wants to hold the numbers such as WoW it would need to appeal to gamers from all genres.  Which really WoW is still the only mmo that does that.

WoW was released at the perfect time and I do not think it is possible to have numbers like WoW.   Too many games on the market now.  

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by dstar.

I never understood the WoW killer thing.  How is another game suppose to kill WoW, when WoW did not kill any other games when it dropped? 

 

WoW killed EQ and other games before it.... It took subs from those games.  That is what the word "kill" means in this text.

No game is going to beat WoW numbers, IE not going to be a "WoW killer" due to Blizzard being a very smart company and knows how to keep its population happy and paying (playing).

The only game that will knock WoW out of first place is the next Blizzard game.  Unless a developer finally steps out from the "norm" and makes a great MMORPG.   (Great = many different opinions though) 

IMO a great MMORPGS needs: an open world, skill based charater development, PvP/RvR, Player choice though out the game, player skill driven PvP, and group focused content with some solo content.

Well, with this feature set your great MMORPG  would not be a WOW killer, that's for sure.

But I'd probably enjoy playing it.

Comparing any of those companies vs any mmo dev other than Blizzard shows a complete misunderstanding of business.  Every single one of those companies do more business in one month than any 2nd tier mmo business will do in their entire lifetime.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by Ichmen

unfortunetly if you look back say 10yrs ago (pre-wow)  you would see very few of the insta-failure threads. what we have now days are what i tend to generally call the WoW days.. everyone tends to agree as a game, WoW after awhile has long since lost its luster and fun. but what WoW did that was sorta benifitual was open the MMO gaming area to people who never played MMOs they are the RTS.. RPG... FPSers and such. 

 

So in other words a game that wants to hold the numbers such as WoW it would need to appeal to gamers from all genres.  Which really WoW is still the only mmo that does that.

 

WoW was released at the perfect time and I do not think it is possible to have numbers like WoW.   Too many games on the market now.  

It was released at the right time for MMO players.  However it did suck in a freaking ton of people from other genres and there's no doubt about that.

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by Ichmen

unfortunetly if you look back say 10yrs ago (pre-wow)  you would see very few of the insta-failure threads. what we have now days are what i tend to generally call the WoW days.. everyone tends to agree as a game, WoW after awhile has long since lost its luster and fun. but what WoW did that was sorta benifitual was open the MMO gaming area to people who never played MMOs they are the RTS.. RPG... FPSers and such. 

 

So in other words a game that wants to hold the numbers such as WoW it would need to appeal to gamers from all genres.  Which really WoW is still the only mmo that does that.

 

WoW was released at the perfect time and I do not think it is possible to have numbers like WoW.   Too many games on the market now.  

It was released at the right time for MMO players.  However it did suck in a freaking ton of people from other genres and there's no doubt about that.

I do not disagree with you at all.  It created a ton of new MMO players but in doing so it created a ton of "WoW clones". 

I do not think that the MMO player base is growing as fast as it did with WoW and now we have a ton more MMO games on the market which means small pieces of the pie for each game.   That is why I do not see any game becoming a "WoW Killer".

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by Ichmen

unfortunetly if you look back say 10yrs ago (pre-wow)  you would see very few of the insta-failure threads. what we have now days are what i tend to generally call the WoW days.. everyone tends to agree as a game, WoW after awhile has long since lost its luster and fun. but what WoW did that was sorta benifitual was open the MMO gaming area to people who never played MMOs they are the RTS.. RPG... FPSers and such. 

 

So in other words a game that wants to hold the numbers such as WoW it would need to appeal to gamers from all genres.  Which really WoW is still the only mmo that does that.

 

WoW was released at the perfect time and I do not think it is possible to have numbers like WoW.   Too many games on the market now.  

@ dstar: actually yes and no, while traditional MMOers care for only RPG/quests and pvp. a FPSer is heavy PVP no RPG and little quests (they want to get in kill a whack load and logout kind of thing) now saying that a new MMO must have elements from all genres is alittle steap and harder on the MMOG IMO. but doable, that being said a new MMO has to have some elements that everyone wants other wise you will only attract a limited number of people.
 

if we were to theorize and break up a WoW server population. you would easily get 50% tradition and the rest a mixed assortment between FPSers and RPGers and such.

now if your new gen game is to attract the maximum number of players (generally what all companies want) they have to appel to all spectrums of players from the diehard PVPer to the diehard quest'er/crafter... RPGer ect... singling out one, is like making a cake with out 1 ingredient. you can still make the cake but it wont be AS good as it could be. ofcourse in no way am i saying a company HAS to set its sights to get everyone. but generally thats the norm for companies (example APB its a questing/PVP/FPS set to attract as many players as possible how it plays out who knows)

@Tdogskal: the only reason WoW has had the success it has recived was do to it creating a game off one of their other popular titles (warcraft) as well as creating the game to work on lower end systems (lots of consle players neglete pcs so they are not as high end generally) which ofcourse opened the door for players to join it who have never played a MMO before. ontop of that they lowered the skill requirement to play it (not ment to sound harsh or anything just general census) anyone is able to pick up WoW and play it. unlike WAR or AoC or FF or DarkFall where you have to know what your doing and have the skills setup in such a way.. ect..

WoW takes most of that work away from the player they just pick their spec and go at it, so in that case WoW did a decent job on their game. i personally dont like WoW as its not my type of Tea... but others do so, good for them. as for WoW's release time.. thats kind of debate-able sure you can argue that there was limited MMOs of the AAA quality around at the time and what not.. but if Blizzard had released Starcraft as a MMO instead it would most likely be just as popular.. simply because Starcraft like Warcraft are both highly popular games in korea alone.. and still equally popular now days in the rest of the world. SO unlike other games coming out which only have that title.. Blizzard has its name and past games to use for attracting players. people go to games they like and companies they know/trust.

Originally posted by Jatwhal

What about Pepsi

Burger King, Wendy's

Church's Fried Chicken, Popeye's

Toyota, Ford,

Apple, Dell

All "second best" companies and any I wouldn't mind owning...

So what is it with the mmo world and this common mentality that if a new mmo doesn't kill WoW it doesn't matter, it's not worth playing?

SOE are leaders in the industry...ask them. Better yet, ask their (former) customers.

people who play wow are not mmo fans they are wow fans. Thats the difference.

Originally posted by ronan32

people who play wow are not mmo fans they are wow fans. Thats the difference.

yes.

*sigh* When will people learn that the only "insert MMO name here" Killer will be the company itself when they decide to pull the plug?

Sure another game might come along and hurt the subs, but until the company that owns the game pulls the plug it isn't dead.  They can be flops or failures, but it isn't dead until they nix it.

Show me a poster who said "If its not more popular than WOW its a failure." Good luck with that.

I agree with the guy who said if subs don't increase its a failure. Anyone who runs a business knows this. If your clients are decreasing something is wrong. If an MMO goes from 10k to 12K in a few months, I would consider that a success. To go from 700k to 300k in 3 months is nothing short of an abysmal failure. If you don't grasp that concept, then I don't know how to explain it any simpler.

Originally posted by Dethevan

*sigh* When will people learn that the only "insert MMO name here" Killer will be the company itself when they decide to pull the plug?

 

OK, all this literal definition crap is killing me. Are people that daft? When I say the Florida Gators killed the Troy Trojans in a football do you actually think I meant they terminated their lives?

When will people learn that when people say "insert MMO name here" is dead they are referring to a severe lack of population comapred to what it once was. Not a literal sense. Like in AC2.

EX. DAoC is dead now.

It means that once a game that had 45k users online at once now only has 3k online at once. No, technically not dead, but very far off from being the vibrant game it once was.

Originally posted by ronan32

people who play wow are not mmo fans they are wow fans. Thats the difference.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, exactly. Should people be willing to play a game(s) they hate, just so they're playing an MMO, to be able to consider themselves an 'MMO Fan'?  That reeks of desperation.  "I MUST find a new MMO to play, otherwise I don't know what to do with myself!  My life has no meaning unless I'm...doing stuff...in make-believe...with other people...online!!".  Yet millions feel that way about WoW.   It's a hard sell getting someone to pay a subscription for something they think is crap.  That's the problem with MMOs pre-and-post-WoW;  The genre is (mostly) full of shit. 

It's apparent; the market is there, the will to pay the fee is there...so what are all these other companies doing *wrong*, to such a degree that they can't reach a fraction of the market that Blizzard has consistently held?  We're talking about a game going on -5- years old.  Five Years.  People will only stick with something when it's perceived to have value.