Club Penguin is a much more valid inclusion than Vanguard, which is a complete piece of garbage.

Originally posted by Amathe

Club Penguin is a much more valid inclusion than Vanguard, which is a complete piece of garbage.

Vanguard beats the crap out of any game in this list.

Originally posted by Astralglide

 I definately agree with LOTRO. I think that the Saga of Ryzom should have been in there instead of Club Penguin. And whoever said WAR and AOC deserve a place... well, I can concede AOC, but the only thing WAR brought to the table that was innovative was public quests (boring, repetative content is NOT innovative) which really require a WoW size population to work.

 

PS- Not to sound like an idiot for all the trolls out there, but I think that Ryzom was release after WoW. If not, then I'm a tard. (Club Penguin is still lame)

It also came out before WoW. Our game list conveniently lets you sort by date ;)

Originally posted by SonikFlash

There's nothing wrong with the article just because you don't agree.

@previous posters

Vanguard actually makes a lot of sense, it had a rocky start that's true, right now its a great game and it always has had and always will have more content than either age of conan or warhammer, that's almost  indisputable

Of course the amount of content present in Vanguard has nothing to do with it's ranking in Dana's Top 10. It's an arbitrary list based on personal opinion - and naught else (according to the article itself).

If one were to assemble a list of the Top 10 MMOs since WoW with the most content and variety, then surely Vanguard would rank a lot higher than 10th place. Similarly when ranking such games based on current subscriber figures (or total revenue), both WAR and AoC would be listed and Vanguard would not make the cut.

As for the top 10 itself. Obviously I'd make some changes if it were my personal top 10 MMOs since WoW, but it seems like a solid list.

Might have done with slightly better explanations as to why certain games were listed (as can be seen in this thread), but a well-written article nonetheless.

I think people need to cut Dana a whole lot of slack for this list.  It isn't like there is a large list of quality games to choose from that released in the last five years. 

Look at some of the "top 10" choices.

A few terrible flops that flirt with closure every day.  Changing to FTP model, IP acquired during bankruptcy, etc. 

Free to play kids games

A game that really isn't an mmo

A few games that are not even out of their first month of operation.

There is only one game on that list that competes with wow and has even a small measure of success beyond 1 month. 

If that doesn't clearly spell out just how sad the last 5 years have been I don't know what does.  The only real successes have been the kids games and I am not knocking them.  

Honestly some of those choices have no business being on a top 10 list of anything positive, but when you consider the alternatives what choice is there?  Trying to fill any list with the releases of the past 5 years is impossible to do without getting to a point where you are simply left with choices of which games sucked less just to get 10 entries. 

I am glad to LOTRO on top. I beta-ed it and understand fully the ramifications of trying to take on the "king" of all High Fantasy: J.R.R. Tolkien's awesome world. I feel that LOTRO captures an excellent amount of Tolkien's vision and ideas, and for that part alone it should be number one. There are just certain classic pieces of literature that can be a massive headache to anyone trying to develop said title... Tolkien is arguably one of the hardest. (Although I would argue the worlds of Jules Verne, Isaac Asimov, or HG Wells might be even harder to create in an MMO style) My hat is definitely off to LOTRO and will probably hold that number one spot until Aion gets more legs under it or until the coming of Star Trek Online and/or Star Wars The Old Republic Online when they go online.

A great list in any event Dana.

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Liltawen

Interesting list but I really think Fallen Earth and Aion are just too new to be here-give them a quarter year at least!

What were #11 and 12?

I also considered that same thing with those two new games. Ultimately, I decided to include them, but I wavered on that until the last second. In the end, given commercial success was not my primary measurement, I figured it was OK to put them in.

Basically, I went through the list post-WoW and made a giant list. That included every game on there, plus a few more. From that, I picked 10.

The other games I had briefly considered were: Habbo, Dofus, Silkroad Online, Age of Conan, Free Realms, Mabinogi, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic, Darkfall and Warhammer Online.

To be clear, that doesn't mean I truly was going to put them on. Just that they popped out at me as I was browsing through.

Runes of Magic and Silkroad were likely 11 and 12, if I had to label it.

Champions Online but not City of Heroes?

Wha?

Considering the fact that I've played LOTRO more than any other MMO since WoW released, I'd have to agree with his #1 pick. Although I've been lured away by DDO since it went F2P.

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Liltawen

Interesting list but I really think Fallen Earth and Aion are just too new to be here-give them a quarter year at least!

What were #11 and 12?

I also considered that same thing with those two new games. Ultimately, I decided to include them, but I wavered on that until the last second. In the end, given commercial success was not my primary measurement, I figured it was OK to put them in.

Basically, I went through the list post-WoW and made a giant list. That included every game on there, plus a few more. From that, I picked 10.

The other games I had briefly considered were: Habbo, Dofus, Silkroad Online, Age of Conan, Free Realms, Mabinogi, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic, Darkfall and Warhammer Online.

To be clear, that doesn't mean I truly was going to put them on. Just that they popped out at me as I was browsing through.

Runes of Magic and Silkroad were likely 11 and 12, if I had to label it.

Champions Online but not City of Heroes?

 

Wha?

City of Heroes launched before World of Warcraft by a good 7 months.

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Originally posted by SgtFrog
Guild wars is not an MMO, it is even said so in the FAQ
It is just a co-op RPG like diablo...only difference is that you can move about in the lobby (towns)

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We are not talking about that at all. This site counts it as an MMO for most things. It plays and works like an MMO in most ways. Get over it.

As for the list, I am convinced that some of these choices (Penguin, Wizard) were chosen to incite argument, and I am not sure if I like that. They do have some success, but just about anyone that actually thinks about MMOs or cares about games as a concept has zero respect or interest for these games. Most of the people that play these games do not even understand what MMOs are, and I think that alone should disqualify them. These are not great games. They are games that are specifically tailored to children and have no substance at all.

Really, I tend to expect better from Dana.

Ok another game in question Dana (I tried to find the release date, but was unsuccessful)....what about knight online?

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

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Most of the people that play these games do not even understand what MMOs are, and I think that alone should disqualify them.

On that criteria, a whole lotta people from this thread just got their MMO-of-choice banned. If you only think WAR, AOC or even Aion is a MMO, you really need to educate yourself.

Wizard 101 is a MMO and one of the most fun casual MMOs I've played. It has a ton of innovations that other MMOs should consider including - multiple payment systems, a great free play experience, a flexible and fun combat system - and just because the devs decided to aim their title more towards the childrens' market doesn't make any of their innovations invalid. Does it let a large number of individual players into a single area where they can all see each other and interact, including in combat situations? Yes? Then it's a MMO.

It's like whenever someone mentions Runescape (released before WoW ;-) a lot of players on these forums try to discount it despite it 1) meeting pretty much any valid criteria you could name about what makes a MMO and 2) is hugely financially successful. Or how players try to ignore the FTP MMOs as not being as valid because they don't require a sub fee.

I didn't see this point made, but it should be: what is really interesting is that post-WoW there have been 173 new entries into MMORPG.com's games list (and that might not include those who fail and get scrubbed). That's huge. 173 new titles in 6 years? No wonder the market is crowded.

Originally posted by bombmaster2

 I am sorry but there is a much better list here of the Top 10 MMORPGs and it includes gameplay videos of each of the 10 top mmorpgs as well.

That's a horrible list. It includes Quake Live - not a MMORPG, by any stretch of the imagination - and APB - which isn't even out yet. By that token, that list also needs to include SWOR and Blizzard's next untitled MMO because I'm sure they are going to be popular too.

Going slightly offtopic, but which armor is that in the Guild Wars pic?

I have played or tried many of the games. Atlantica although I don't play it daily anymore is a really fun and different game. It has many things that make it enjoyable and a refreshing change to other games I have played.

LoTR is fun and different although I didn't continue after the trial period. I would still recommend giving it a try.

Aion is the newest and I have not tried it as I have said many times I can't see paying $50 to try it. I do however have friends that are giving it a try and I hear good things about many of the things in the game but it seems that once you reach a certain level it then becomes open enviorment to PvP.  This alone has lost any interest for me. If I wanted to play PvP then this would not hold me back but  I don't.  I like a game where PvP is a choice not something that is a must so too speak.

LOTRO is actually a very well made game. The graphics are very good, it runs great as well. It also has DX10 graphics for those of with higher end PCs. I also love the fact that they offer high resolution textures for those with faster PCs. I don't think any other MMO does that do they?

LOTRO has something for everyone which is why it does so well I think. Of course it doesn't have millions of subscribers but it is a success and Turbine is a great developer.

Um, has mmorpg come to this?

I think im done reading any non-forum posts.....

If u are going for a MMO, then i guess aa 2 would be on the top of the list hahaha

"Turbine did a fantastic job of honoring the source material. Their world may not match everyone’s mind’s eye vision of Middle-earth, but it’s definitely a great attempt."

One of the most deluded pieces of tripe I've ever seen.  The only way you could make such a claim is if you had never read the Lord of the Rings.

Its not even close anymore.  How you could say any game with a class like the Rune-Keeper (AKA Sith Lord wannabe) be a great attempt???   I'm not saying the Rune-Keeper is a terrible class.  Its a great one... that has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings setting at all.  Which unfortunately is something that falls on a lot of what Turbine has added to the game.

The rest of the comments on LotRO I can agree with.  It is one of the better MMOs out there since the launch of  WoW.   but to call it a great attempt at making a Middle Earth setting is laughable.  Go into playing it knowing it breaks the lore of the setting left and right and you'll find it a pretty fun game.  Go into it thinking what you said, and you are going to find it disappointing.

I have to admit that the only games I've played on the list was Maplestory and Guild Wars, and I am very pleased indeed that Guild Wars got such a high position. Of course, like most fans, I would want to see Guild Wars at the top, but since I've never actually played LOTRO as much I would love to, I will withhold my judgement on that. Guild Wars is an excellent game, and I am glad to see that, and I am very glad to see it with an honourable mention in such a list.

Originally posted by Anguloke

"Turbine did a fantastic job of honoring the source material. Their world may not match everyone’s mind’s eye vision of Middle-earth, but it’s definitely a great attempt."

 

One of the most deluded pieces of tripe I've ever seen.  The only way you could make such a claim is if you had never read the Lord of the Rings.

Its not even close anymore.  How you could say any game with a class like the Rune-Keeper (AKA Sith Lord wannabe) be a great attempt???   I'm not saying the Rune-Keeper is a terrible class.  Its a great one... that has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings setting at all.  Which unfortunately is something that falls on a lot of what Turbine has added to the game.

The rest of the comments on LotRO I can agree with.  It is one of the better MMOs out there since the launch of  WoW.   but to call it a great attempt at making a Middle Earth setting is laughable.  Go into playing it knowing it breaks the lore of the setting left and right and you'll find it a pretty fun game.  Go into it thinking what you said, and you are going to find it disappointing.

Okay, granted the whole RK class is supremely iffy on Tolkien lore and more than enough people have complained pre-MoM. BUT coming from a standpoint of a Tolkien literary fanatic, I can safely say that a lot of the stuff rings true to the source especially with the environment. I have a collection of maps of Middle-Earth and while looking over them for funsies, I noticed that the maps in the game are very similar. A lot of the written lore is translated very well into the game especially with the things that are described in like 2 paragraphs by Tolkien and flushed out into something huge by Turbine.

But you have to remember that this is LoTR from Turbine's eyes and I would assume they work closely with Tolkien Enterprises to keep all this stuff as intact as possible and negotiate with ideas like the RK class.

As per other comments on this post, okay yes, LotRO at the point of launch was like WoW with features. But it is rapidly changing as time goes by. It's actually not that heavily reliant on gear. I have crappy gear and it's no big deal (probably a big deal to some people and their kins, but screw them and what they think). Plus, they're coming out with the new skirmish system that sounds like fun and should bring a new dynamic to the game.

We may not have the numbers like WoW, but at least we have epic story lines that at least I find fun. It really is about personal opinion. But I do agree with Guild Wars and LotRO being top two... at least for their fun factor.

AION and Fallen Earth come on. How much were you paid to throw those in there. AOC and Warhammer both would of been in there on there relese days with your criteria. No game should of been considered unless they have been out for atleast a year.

Age of Conan is I think the best  one out there right now in terms of fantasy, the pvp is actually skill based.

and where is Eve Online, that has a much stronger communitry and fan based then Pirates of the Burning sea.

Originally posted by pmaura

AION and Fallen Earth come on. How much were you paid to throw those in there. AOC and Warhammer both would of been in there on there relese days with your criteria. No game should of been considered unless they have been out for atleast a year.

Age of Conan is I think the best  one out there right now in terms of fantasy, the pvp is actually skill based.

and where is Eve Online, that has a much stronger communitry and fan based then Pirates of the Burning sea.

The article said since world of Warcraft. EVE Online was released before WoW.

The article was a great read and you made a good call on LoTRO being #1. The only exception I saw on the list was Pirates of the Burning Seas which was, in my opinion, a horrible game. Its top 10 spot seemed undeserving. The rest of the list I can be on board with.

Originally posted by alus21

Okay, granted the whole RK class is supremely iffy on Tolkien lore and more than enough people have complained pre-MoM. BUT coming from a standpoint of a Tolkien literary fanatic, I can safely say that a lot of the stuff rings true to the source especially with the environment.

The RK is a lot more than iffy.  

I didn't say everything about it goes against the setting.  And while map wise and world wise it looks very close to the setting.  There is a lot like the RK that ridiculously doesn't ring true to the source.   Some of which makes no sense what-so-ever as it adds nothing to the game to go that way. 

If Turbine wanted a generic sword an sorcery world they should have made one.  Instead they decided to take on Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth, and have fallen flat, more and more in doing so.

I'm glad GW was high on the list.. LotRO is also a great  game, just not for me... so yeah I like the top two.