Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by sacredfool

If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....

*http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/

 

Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?

 

The gulag was in russia, dumbass.  China actually has some beautiful country. 

 

The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people?

Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind?

Not at all.  Does it bother you when people mention that not everything is evil in China?  They have some of the most beautiful country in the world, and some of the bravest freedom fighters.  I bet you never have and would never stare down a tank.  Well neither would I probably, and maybe not even most chinese, but I think there are a very  many serious young people working to change things there and I think we should be proud of their efforts.  Trying to make out like everything is rotten in china is not helping anyone.

And to be clear, I am American.  And as a true American I value honor and honesty above politics.

Originally posted by Swanea

If China waged an economical war on the US, under the Bush era, you would have seen the end of the world because his answer would have been nukes, and we know where that leads.

But, doesn't the culture of china basically allow for communism to stay in place?

I have been thinking about what you write for a day and I am at a loss what to say.  China waging an economic war on US?  Not likely.  China is already chaging from relying on US market to trying to pop up US while slowly steering away from dependence on US.  To China, US is both an anchorage and a burden, and more and more the weight of burden felt.  China does not need to start a war on US, economic that is, China can simply divest to trading with Europe and the new markets.  Once the US dollar ceased to be the international currency, US will be just Canada and Britain.  Another smaller country.

As for the culture of China, its a deep story.  So much has changed in the value system of China during the last century, it is now hard to say what is Chinese culture any more.  What we know that rules for thousands for year till 1900s, is severely modified, abandoned or adapted, in different ways by different brackets of the huge billion size population.

As for communism to stay in place, apart from the name communist, as the ruling party, is there anything in the Chinese politics that has anything to do with communism in ideology?  One party rule, despotic control (gradually laxing) and so on is nothing new.  Burma has more of that than China, is Burma communist?  South America, the Phillipines up to Marcos does practically the same thing as China NOW.  Are they communist?

@ lisubab; ok, addressing the issues you brought up;

Female infanticide/sex selective abortion; Theres data from sources like EquityFeminism, but i guess they must be biased cuz, you know, theyre women. The New York Times? Nope, you probably cant believe the wacky liberal media. Nobel prize winner Amartya Sen? Cant really trust him, hes from India. UN forums like the International Conference on Population and Development? Nah, theyve got it in for China. I know, how about the Chinese Government itself? Senior government oficial Zhang Wheiqing released figures for an unbalance ratio at birth of 119 boys for every 100 girls in 2004. I think that was kinda like in the 80s...

Forced Labor; The International Labor Organization, UNICEF, the BBC... This is just for sweatshops and such, not getting into the labor camps they got rid off *wink* although i could be mistaken here, i mean, not being let out of your room and sometimes even being tied to a sewing machine for 12 hr shifts is just cultural differences right? How bout miners doing similar hours in working conditions that wont let most live past 40? Those two i got from Newsweek, they did a whole issue on China.

Tibet; Actually i do know Tibets geographical location and have read up on its history, you know, just to fit in on Free Tibet concerts and such... I wouldnt exactly call it a multicultural nation prior to the invasion (you know, like Brazil or India) but i dont see how that would justify Chinas anexation (yea, funny thing about international law, its called that)  the fact that theyve only been brainwashing people through unimportant institutions like, say schools, probably makes it alright Tibetans are being robbed of their heritage. You want a source? How about most western governments prior to 1971 when, for some "strange" reason, they suddenly reversed their positions...

Oh, but youve been to China and you live there so i guess i should take your word for it and disregard pretty much everything ive ever heard or read about it... And about those tanks, really, it kinda seems shameless and twisted youd bring up the Tiananmen students who stood up against the very government youre trying to defend. You do know many of them misteriously "disapeared" dont you?

And just for the record, i was dismissing the posibility of a war between the US and China just some posts back. And dont bring Latin America into this, the only dictators weve got left are the Castros and Chavez (oh, but technically hes a socialist, not a commie) along with the coup government in Honduras... And for that poster talking about Mexicans ill have you know there was a time when the US and China would only trust Mexican pesos for trade amongst each other.

This is an MMO forum, grow up. If you want to discuss politics there are more apropiate places, this thread was about Chinas policy effect on games. If youre fine with them enforcing unfair rules for competition youre welcome to your opinion. Now go throw yourself down a well... Chinas government is contemptible and petty aside from being a murderous one party dictatorship. Youre not going to change my mind about that and it really is pointless for me to argue with you.

@ Svann; My argument has been against Chinese rule, not the countries beauty or the quality of its people. This thread got derailed because aparently some posters couldnt bear to have a government they admire criticized. Thats not a western attitude, and if youre gonna jump on the bandwagon of squashing dissent you really shouldnt use your nationality as a credential. Yea, im a liberal. Im happy to live in the one place in Latin America where abortion, gay marriage, personal drug use and prostitution are not against the law. Oh, and there also arent any laws to limit internet freedoms. So people saying the chinese government is good kinda rubs me the wrong way...

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by sacredfool

If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....

*http://www.news-business.net/china-continue-to-buy-us-obligations/

 

Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?

My point is that maybe then they would start appreciating all the luxuries the west has. It doesn't mean chinese live in a gulag but as of now the standard of living if this neo-communist state is far from what many consider acceptable.