Originally posted by metalhead980

 

I find this subscriber talk funny.

For over four years now we've been saying subs dont matter and you cannot range quality by the amount of people playing it.

We used Mcdonalds and boy band references to prove that most popular doesnt equal better.

So here comes Aion it is semi popular and thats all we hear "3.5 million subs" "400k pre-orders!" Please! explain yourself, let the game stand on its own without doing what the WoW fanbois did forever (linking sub totals).

Most of the Aion fans are just hypocrites, they took a shit all over WoW fans for the sub talk and now they use it themselves.

We even have someone saying Aion should be number one due to subs lol.

it's pathetic.

The same hypocrisy and waffling happens with XFire numbers. Amazing how quickly Xfire numbers go from being "valid" to "meaningless" entirely on the basis of whether or not they favor the individual's point-of-view.

Threads on this site ooze with hypocrisy, spin and all around BS. This is nothing new.

I, for one, think it was a cogently laid out and logical opinion piece.  With an emphasis on opinion.

I'm an older gamer (turning 40 this year) and have been gaming my whole life.  I got my start, out of college, beta-testing games for Sega's Master Console - and I had to beta test a whole lot of games - everything from "A Lion King," to sports trivia games, to martial arts games (anyone remember Eternal Champions?).  A good game is a good game, no matter its intended audience or age range.  That's my view.

I've played many games on Dana's list, and currently split my time between playing Atlantica Online and Aion.  Atlantica Online is the first 'Free to Play' game I've tried, and I found out about it via the positive reviews garnered here at MMORPG.com and at other sites.  It's a unique, well designed item mall grinder, and is what it is.  The server I play on (Sikyon) always has alot of people on and my guild is always full for raids.  Last August, they had a game-wide raffle contest which culminated with a fellow from San Francisco winning an 'Atlantica Online' Scion automobile.  Videos are on their website.  Good marketing savvy, and an interesting way to keep your playerbase engaged. This is more than I could say for my experiences with certain pay to play games, such as Vanguard, Warhammer Online and Age of Conan, which were all either dead or dying when I quit playing them.  Just because you have not heard of a game, or are not currently playing it does not diminish its quality or popularity.

I also have to put in a good word for Club Penguin, altho it's a game I, personally, do not play.  As I'm an avid gamer (which, necessarily, is concomitant with negligent parenting), I've always encouraged my daughter to find and play interesting games - including mmos.  She's ten years old, and so far has tried her hand at "Toontown Online," "Faunasphere," "Free Realms," and "Club Penguin."  As I allow her only to subscribe to one MMO at a time, she has to make a choice as to what game to play and what game to give up.  Invariably, the game she chooses to return to, again and again, is Club Penguin.  It's not my cup of tea, and, frankly, I can't see what kids get from it, but they seem to enjoy the game.  Basically, kids play as cute Penguin avatars, and can buy and purchase items, pets (i.e. "Puffles"), hold parties and events, and compete in mini games against each other.  Disney has great marketing, as I've noticed they have Puffles and Penguin stuffed toys at Target, which kids can buy, and receive free items ingame for purchasing.  My daughter has a couple of these. 

The servers for Club Penguin always appear to be busy - again, which is a contrast to the marked failures of several recent 'big name' MMOs.  All of my daughter's little friends appear to have played, or know of both Club Penguin and Toontown (another, older Disney MMO - which some grown ups even play).  I would wager that many MMOs aimed at older player demographic groups would envy the success of these two "kids" games. 

So yes, why not include "Club Penguin" and "Atlantica" into a top 10 post-WOW MMO list.  They're successful, and good at what they do, and in the end, that's what counts. 

Thanks for the interesting read, Dana.

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by philipzam

I am very surprised to see that Final Fantasy XI Online was not mentioned.
It may not be the best mmorpg of all time, but it has been around a log time and set quite a few standards.

Whats you comment on this?

 

If you read what the list is about again maybe you could awnser your own question.

/facepalm

Here's a big clue to help you along, phillipzam...

- FFXI launched in the West in  October, 2003**
- WoW launched in the West a little over a year later in November, 2004

Note the emphasis on the word "later". 

** FFXI first launched in May 2002 in Japan, but this is a "Western Market Only" article, so I used "Western" launch date.

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Masoniclight

Dana,

I appreciate the list and think it was well done and well thought out, but I do have to ask why WoW's counterpart that came out in the same year was not mentioned? And by that counterpart I am, of course, referring to City of Heroes.

After the same 5 years WoW has been around, I would argue that COH was not only a groundbreaking game (first true Superhero MMO) but that it set a standard in that genre that has still not been met. COH has been a great success in its own right and I feel really should have been added to your good list.

I am glad to see you did have Aion.. if any game can challenge Cuild Wars and WoW it is this game.. beautiful world, awesome story, unique pvpve core... it will continue to do well in my opinion.

just my .02 influence.

 

City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.

People, for the love of God, READ THE ARTICLE in it's entirety before posting! That way, Dana can spend time responding to intelligent posts rather than having to waste his time telling you people 50 times over that his criteria for his top 10 list was limited to games that were RELEASED AFTER WoW!



Really, if I didn't think I would get a warning, I'd go off right now, on what I really think about the intelligence level of a significant amount of the people that post here.

I feel your pain. I read some of the posts here and don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I think Club Penguin should be ranked a lot higher.

Being a fan of Penguins (the animal), I couldn't help but notice that every Wal-mart had pre-paid cards for something called "Club Penguin" near the checkout. And that they seemed to sell a lot of them.

Conversely, it's hard not to notice how big a flop LOTRO is. The price of Moria (the boxed set) plummeted to $10, oh, about a month after release. And yet it still sits on shelves.

Turbine is great at taking huge existing franchises (LOTRO and D&D) and sucking all the fun and enjoyment out of them.

Also, while Atlantica did have a pretty good first 9 months or so, if you read the official forums, players are pretty close to being torches & pitchforks mode, over the lack of any real recent content (and the recent we did get really was awful).

See also the reaction to the laughable "Q&A" about it here. Virtually every poster makes fun of it.

maplestory and club penguin.... this is kinda sad.

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Masoniclight

Dana,

I appreciate the list and think it was well done and well thought out, but I do have to ask why WoW's counterpart that came out in the same year was not mentioned? And by that counterpart I am, of course, referring to City of Heroes.

After the same 5 years WoW has been around, I would argue that COH was not only a groundbreaking game (first true Superhero MMO) but that it set a standard in that genre that has still not been met. COH has been a great success in its own right and I feel really should have been added to your good list.

I am glad to see you did have Aion.. if any game can challenge Cuild Wars and WoW it is this game.. beautiful world, awesome story, unique pvpve core... it will continue to do well in my opinion.

just my .02 influence.

 

City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.

Fair enough, I figured that since they basically came out the same time that you wouldn't consider COH to be really before WoW... but again, fair enough.

I agree with GW & LOTRO being at the top of an ordinary list.

Originally posted by red_cruiser

Well, interesting list and good PR for LotRO.

It did do a good job putting the genre into perspective for me though. 

The "Why do I still bother paying attention to these kind of websites anymore" perspective.

This is the best you lot of game designers can do... really?  

Edit: I don't mean it as a knock on gaming websites.  I just mean that none of the games have really been what I would consider exceptional in any regard.

This entire list would look very different if we were looking at a top 10 mmos in the past 10 years say (other than WoW), period.

Also, FWIW, I've just started a AoC sub & can honestly say it's either a lot better than it was at release & all the whining it had back then; or, it's just a pretty damn good mmo (so far), & your typical mmo player expectations have now become so overblown that nothing that will come out will realistically be able to please/satiate them. Game over.

Actually, how about another top 10 list: Best mmos ever that are now dead...? <EG>

Must admit I'm rather surprised to see Aion on that list. Lord of the Rings Online was pretty tight, although it suffered from a lack of content at mid-high levels when I played it shortly after release. It probably deservers a 1st place.

Originally posted by Ethian

LOTRO #1? Come on now....LoL.

Yeah and Atlantica online on mmorpg.com top.

Yes.  World of Warcraft did change MMOs forever.  It gave us one we could look at in disgust.  It is so hack and slash without a base story line that a monkey could play it if only a monkey could read(which would make it less intelligent since WoW players typically lack any semblance of intelligence in those tiny little things they call brains).  I personally prefer MMOs that make me think about how to solve puzzles much like all the old, non-online RPGs do.  I am a hardcore RPG gamer but I never saw the point to Warcraft in any of it's iterations, but at least the strategy games made you think.

Its a interesting list. Pretty unbiased and the author's criteria matched his outcome. I'm glad he included my fav Fallen Earth and Aion as well.  Think what you want but both games have changed the formula. Remember when WOW came out the rules for a successful MMORPG launch changed. SWG launched what at the time was a respectable 100k  subscription. WOW's cartoony graphics let it reach much less high end computers and a much larger audiance, it managed to hit 1 million, which at the time was unheard of.

It unfortunately went bad after that, a formulai was in place and the prior adventous spirit from MMORPG's was snuffed out by the corp machine.

I'm happy to see that spark back in the gaming industry, it enabled Asheron's call and Anarchy online and EVE.

Maybe this list should be called "Top Ten New MMOGs" since many of these games are fairly recent.

New MMOs have an advantage anyway because they always start with lots of subscribers.

Wizard 101 is a great game, if somewhat silly at times, and I would probably rank it in the top 5.  Lord of the Rings and Aion obviously should have snagged the top two spots, which makes me wonder why Aion is 5th.  Aion is definitely in position to be that elusive WOW killer.  It has Final Fantasy style graphics(which people love, and the 13+ Final Fantasy games are proof), a game play style that blends the best elements of both Everquest and WOW, and quests that are challenging enough for a seasoned mmo gamer yet easy enough for a newbie all combined with an excellent storyline.  It strikes that magic balance that makes the game hard not to love unless you are one of these mindless zombies(no offense to those Vodun practitioners that may be on here)  called a hardcore WOW player.  I am just getting into Guild Wars so I cannot comment on that yet, and Vanguard seems like a good idea but I have never played it.  Some on the list I have never heard of.

Top Game That Should Have Never Been Released:  World of Warcraft

All World of Warcraft gave us was all the great games that try to dethrone the commercialized mockery of an MMO that World of Warcraft is.  It is just one big cash cow, and like all cows is ugly.

I liked the improvements to Vanguard but the game is still buggy, they have put new content first which leads to a bugged and lag filled game. The bugs and lags are not terrible but noticeable, also many of the new quests have a jokey feel which is out of tone with Vanguards high fantasy theme.

I am sorry, but WAR and AoC deserve a place, they have big issues but should still be there. To leave them out and include maple Story and Club Penguin is a joke.

For me LOTRO is deservedly in the top spot.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Granted it is a subjective list and everyone will have differing opinions on what should be on that list.  BUT Club Penguin? I mean come on, no one in their right mind has ever heard of that game.  Unless that was thrown in as a joke, you have completely lost it.

What IS Club Penguin? Do you get to club them?

 I definately agree with LOTRO. I think that the Saga of Ryzom should have been in there instead of Club Penguin. And whoever said WAR and AOC deserve a place... well, I can concede AOC, but the only thing WAR brought to the table that was innovative was public quests (boring, repetative content is NOT innovative) which really require a WoW size population to work.

PS- Not to sound like an idiot for all the trolls out there, but I think that Ryzom was release after WoW. If not, then I'm a tard. (Club Penguin is still lame)

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 
Club penguin is one of the most successful MMO's of all time. Again, the responses here just show how jaded, and simply uninformed the experts  Forum users here on the MMORPG forums are. The game may not be fore you, however that means jack shit to its success or popularity.
 
Learn to distinguish the two.

 
 

 

Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?

Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.

If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...

This has zero to do with anything.

But, to answer your question. Yes.

I am not sure how you think Disney movies have not impacted, or are incomparable to other great films. Considering they have made some of the most beloved films of all time, and not all of them were for children.

 

It is also funny you think that most MMO's are for "grownups".

 

 

Ofcourse they have impacted people, but mostly children. Movies like Godfather on the other hand are for grownups and you cannot compare movies like Shrek to Godfather, that is just ludicrous.

As for MMO being for grownups, several surveys has shown that the average age of a PC gamers is in the upper twenties. MMORPGs being online and requiring a monthly fee probably (but not neccessarily) would probably have a higher average age.

So yes, I would say someone in his upper twenites is a "grownup".

Originally posted by synful

Who ever made the list of the top 10 is a freakin krack head and needs to play more mmo games to fully understand them before he writes an article on them go back to school dude and find a job you might someday be good at like newspapper delivery or something .....

And you, sir, need to lay off the crack as well. Try reading an article before you comment on it. As for grammatical ability and literary style, well, you should probably learn to spell and might want to consider reading things that don't "pop-up" when you open them. Loosen the helmet straps, their cutting off blood to your brain.

There's nothing wrong with the article just because you don't agree.

@previous posters

Vanguard actually makes a lot of sense, it had a rocky start that's true, right now its a great game and it always has had and always will have more content than either age of conan or warhammer, that's almost  indisputable

To the person who spoke about comparing a Disney movie(which, btw, does include the James Bond films considering MGM was owned by Disney at the time) and movies put out by say Sony, you clearly do not understand the film industry.  Yes, the story may be different and targeted to a younger audience, but the same basic concepts apply.  I personally played Wizard 101 on a regular basis as a casual MMO that I play when I don't have the time or energy to get involved in a more complex one.  I also see nothing wrong with an adult watching a cartoon movie on their own since for many adults it is a trip down memory lane, or occassionally, animated films have better comedy than that lowbrow stuff that seems to do well at the box office(think any film starring Seth Rogan and you get my idea of lowbrow).

Originally posted by bobfish

Developers are making what the masses want, unfortunately the masses only want it when it is in a WARCRAFT skin.

I think its been proven by now that people dont want warcraft in a different skin, going by some of the real disasters that have launched in the last few years (with more clones incoming everyday). Some developers might think thats what people want, but if somebody wants to play wow or everquest, theyll play them, not some half arsed knock offs.

I have had my eye on Fallen Earth for some time.  I was surprised it made the list over Warhammer Online.  I played Vanguard too when it first came out and it was surely a bugged game.  Quit after a few weeks.

Also played LoTR for awhile and really enjoyed it, but lost interest.  Anyways, great list and a great job reporting on the games.

I am waiting for a few more weeks to order Fallen Earth.  I just have bad luck on these games when they first come out.

 Lol at that list. Vanguard and FE on the bottom? Club Pinguin on top? Wtf Wizard101 doing in this list? Where is WAR and AOC?

Miss, before writing something, actually try what you write about

Not what I'd have chosen as the top 10! Actually, this is exactly the list I'd choose for my bottom 10 (apart from LOTRO maybe).

Although, thinking about it, post-WoW MMOs have been horrendous - and I actually can't think of one that I've enjoyed. So, perhaps these really are the best MMORPGs since WoW, which speaks volumes for the current state of the industry.