Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

lol at this list....

Indeed,
 

"They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course."

This is the conclusion from the Vanguard piece, implying that in someway VG tops AoC and WAR.

I have played all 3 titles and i find it hard to comprehend how AoC is not better in every single aspect of the game, from launch state, to content, to innovation, to graphics, to population, to development, infact every aspect.

And then to suggest that AoC can eventually chart a similar course to VG, when they are way ahead of them in the first place takes the biscuit imho!!

When did you play Vanguard, if you don't mind me asking?

btw sorry for the "her" reference.
 

I played VG a year after release and then again recently after the trail was released and the graphic engine was sorted out(although slight hitching remained). And I am a fan of VG don't get me wrong.

So I believe i have seen it in its best state. And it has taken nearly 3 years (i may be wrong) to get to his stage. It has 3 to 4 devs working on it and the progress is slow, it doesn't even have alternative advancement properly implemented into it yet!

There exists some rudimentary sliders for Int, wis, str, etc which would make some classes different, but my main char was a rogue and given these sliders, every single rogue in VG is exactly the same, save their armor. This is an RPG, i want my char to be slightly different to the next man's char but alas we are still waiting, and given the 3 man team the wait is going to be long!

AoC has population, i am not talking about Xfire, as i don't even know what that does, i am talking about my direct experience, I know for a fact that VG has low pops and is set in a massive land, whereas AoC has a decent pop where PUGs are easily come by.

So in my opinion, VG is a great game but fails on the two aspects that make up an MMORPG, the MMO referring to Massive amount of people playing, VG=fail, or at least it feels like fail given the landscape, and the lack of class customisation lets the role playing down bit badly, AoC passes these two basic criteria easily...........imo.

Others may have different experiences, i like both games, and as such tell it as i see it.

Noted the criteria you used to compile the list, it may have been beneficial to include these in a side note of the article to avoid any confusion.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Except ofcourse that the game has been released for quite a while in Asia and is a massive success.

Also note that Aion has the second highest rating on XFire for MMORPGs and have had that rating for a consecutive 22 days. All other hyped games (such as AoC, WAR) steadily lost numbers just after a couple of weeks.

Aion on Xfire has at least a 100 % error rate sample.
 

Proof: EVE has a confirmed 300K subcriptions. Aion shows 3.5 times the number of EVE on Xfire.

NEVER has Aion a possible 1.2 million players in the west after 1 week.

Proof they started with 400K at release (within one week US and one week later EU) ...You can see that on the Xfire chart.

Aion now has32 NA/EU servers. Just enough to hold on to that 400K.

So the sampled base of Xfire for Aion is simply over represented. Big chance it's due to the 5K Gold sellers who promote the game by logging through Xfire.

Quite easy to see and caluculate yourself.

BTW even though the Xfire samples for Aion are way off comapred to other games:

IN the game itself there is already an Xfire drop of around 20% in its first two weeks. That's two weeks before subscriptions set in ...

 

 

 

Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.

What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?

Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?

What you do is considered spamm.

 

 

I answered to someone who said that Aion has the second most rated MMO on Xfire.

And I clearly showed with EVE subs (300K)  that the Aion sample is not a correct sample on Xfire. Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm.

Never hurts to point out the flaws in someone's reasoning....

Unless there is a fundamental counter agrument why shouldn't I point out the obvious flaw in his reasoning.?

 

The fundamental counter argument is that XFire is not limited to gamers in the west, as you assumed. So Aion having 1+ million subcribers worldwide could very much be how it is.

You even admit the gold sellers who, being gold sellers or not, are subscribing to the game.

The only MMO that I can think of that should be on the list is Dungeon and Dragons Online. It seems to have become popular since it's now free to play.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

 

I played VG a year after release and then again recently after the trail was released and the graphic engine was sorted out(although slight hitching remained). And I am a fan of VG don't get me wrong.

So I believe i have seen it in its best state. And it has taken nearly 3 years (i may be wrong) to get to his stage. It has 3 to 4 devs working on it and the progress is slow, it doesn't even have alternative advancement properly implemented into it yet!

There exists some rudimentary sliders for Int, wis, str, etc which would make some classes different, but my main char was a rogue and given these sliders, every single rogue in VG is exactly the same, save their armor. This is an RPG, i want my char to be slightly different to the next man's char but alas we are still waiting, and given the 3 man team the wait is going to be long!

AoC has population, i am not talking about Xfire, as i don't even know what that does, i am talking about my direct experience, I know for a fact that VG has low pops and is set in a massive land, whereas AoC has a decent pop where PUGs are easily come by.

 

So in my opinion, VG is a great game but fails on the two aspects that make up an MMORPG, the MMO referring to Massive amount of people playing, VG=fail, or at least it feels like fail given the landscape, and the lack of class customisation lets the role playing down bit badly, AoC passes these two basic criteria easily...........imo.

Others may have different experiences, i like both games, and as such tell it as i see it.

 

Noted the criteria you used to compile the list, it may have been beneficial to include these in a side note of the article to avoid any confusion.

Vanguard got the nod over WAR and Conan in my mind as a kind of "most improved" prize. I think of the three, mostly due to amount of time passed, it has made the most improvements.

All three had eerily similar launches.

Conan is improving, as is WAR, but both still have a ways to go. Vanguard, though, seems to have found its stride.

Originally posted by ronpack

The only MMO that I can think of that should be on the list is Dungeon and Dragons Online. It seems to have become popular since it's now free to play.

 Good list Dana. I agree with LoTRO being #1, but why is Club Penguin, Wizard101, Aion and Fallen Earth up there?

Good list. The only game i may not have put up there is maple story, but thats an iffy.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH give plunger salute to Dana)

Good list, but i think it's missing at least one entry since you've listed some kids oriented games

Free Realms.

As for Vanguard, i personally don't think it should be on any list. It's still a failure in my book, and frankly WAR is a bigger success then it even though WAR is not all that right now.

Also not on the list, but i agree since oyu say since is Everquest 2. Since well it did release a WHOLE month before (should still have made the list :))

I think this article should be called top 10 MOST POPULAR MMOs since WOW. Cause there are lot of quality games out there not mentioned in article

 Dana:

Really, you should not even consider games with subscription models that have not even had 2 months to gauge their success. You said yourself that being newly launched it is perhaps a bad idea to include them. I agree it is a bad idea. Age of Conan and Warhammer both launched with huge sales numbers, but after 3 months those numbers plummeted. 

From a purely technical perspective MMOs with less than 3 months under their belts should not be listed. Even if it is an opinion peace; putting games that have not proven themselves lessens your credibility in my eyes. Come on man, you should know better. I would have respected the article more had Warhammer and AoC been up there. At least they've had a year or more to really show what they got. Aion and FE could possibly, and I believe they will, turn out as flavor-of-the-month games. 

Personally I see Aion failing to meet NCSoft's expectations over here, because, if the rumblings I'm hearing over here in are true, Wetern audiences never adopt games which force group activity and grinding down the player's collective throats.

I am also surprised you haven't listed Champions Online. Despite some controversy between the developers and the players it has been well received, and based on your anecdotal process it should have made the list. At least it has been out for longer than 30 days.

*as an aside*

Anyone who thinks AoC should make this list should consider the community that game fosters. Never has more blatant disregard for other players been more prevalent to make people quit before really finding out what the game has to offer. I played it 3 months at launch and then again over this summer, and never have I been insulted and troll baited more often in any other game than AoC. It doesn't take rocket surgery to see that game is just a cesspool of players whom like to grief others and flaunt their supposed, unfounded, superiority over others. Based on the exposure of the community alone I would place this game on the worst 10 MMOs since WoW's launch. 

At least when I got greifed in WoW it was done with respect to the person (i.e: waited until I at least killed what I was fighting before jumping me)

If this is the best mmos we have out there since WoW then we now all should understand why mmos have been failing. Lotro #1, are you kidding ? When Lotro launched nothing else was out and it plays almost no different than WoW. This list just shows how the quality of mmos have been in decline over the years. Oh and Guild Wars is not a mmo, its a CORPG (cooperative online roleplaying game), still glad it is there though!

So you give LOTRO the top spot eh?

:: rips off Dana's rubber mask ::

MR BLOODWORTH!! I knew it was you!!

Originally posted by Cerion

.  I'm rather curious though why Vanguard made the list and not, say Warhammer or Age of Conan..not that I've played either of them.  While none of the three lived up to their hype, Warhammer at the least wasn't a failure at launch.

 

i think the interwebs would have exploded from troll if he included wither WAR or AoC in the list. A fair few cities would have been taken out from combusted nerdrage aswell, it just wouldn't have been worth it.

Club penguin :o

I think you are not seing the real picture behind it. The IP was bought because one day, Disney will bring out a show based on it. The concept of club penguin is what sells but the game itself is... well seriously, bad.

I do agree with Maple Story but in my own opinion, everything that Nexon has brought out is worth to be on the list. Mabinogi for it's features and unique gameplay, Combat Arms for bringing back old school in a new sophisticated way...

Ijji, Nexon, ND are top

My top five would be as follows:

1. LOTRO

2. AION

3. GW

4. VANGUARD

5. FALLEN EARTH

Those other games on the list i could not care less about.  they were mostly f2p games for 10 year olds imo.

Originally posted by erictlewis

It boggles my mind each time I see LOTRO on any list.  Why you ask, well they continually take a dump on their customer base. You should see the forums. 

I agree completely, which is why I never bought into LOTRO.

As several other people have indicated, Guild Wars belongs at the top of this list.

Originally posted by Ashenkhar

Originally posted by erictlewis

It boggles my mind each time I see LOTRO on any list.  Why you ask, well they continually take a dump on their customer base. You should see the forums. 

 

I agree completely, which is why I never bought into LOTRO.

As several other people have indicated, Guild Wars belongs at the top of this list.

Its pure Hyperbole, but. Ok.

I guess by "Continuialy dump on the playerbase" he means; "Add more content and features for free then any other MMO on the market", and, "Continuously offer the best deal in MMO gameing by price, and solid gameplay and free content".

Its sad to see that Runes of Magic didnt make the list. The game is AAA Quality and holds its own. Its just an opinion but RoM should have been on the list some were. Most of the player base has came from WoW or GW and the community is great. The game play is awesome and they are not short on updates and new things coming out. With the reworked Sounds and added graphics the game is visually impressive.  The dual class system allows endless options of combos. The F2P aspect helps for those who have time and no money to invest into the game.

As far as i know RoM is MMO's Best kept secret :)

Originally posted by brostyn

Sadly, the top 10 MMOs since WoW hasn't quite lived up to our expectations. I doubt any of these games even rival EQ numbers in its prime.

rofl that was like 500k max im sure most of em reached that already

Originally posted by Dana

 

Vanguard got the nod over WAR and Conan in my mind as a kind of "most improved" prize. I think of the three, mostly due to amount of time passed, it has made the most improvements.

All three had eerily similar launches.

Conan is improving, as is WAR, but both still have a ways to go. Vanguard, though, seems to have found its stride.

I disagree with you comments.

The only way you could consider that Vanguard was the "most improved" is because it did not even run at launch.

Which is far far from the case of AoC and WAR which nullifies your statement that

"All three had eerily similar launches."

AoC is not improving, it has improved, far far more than Vanguard in a much shorted period of time, and it is well known that AoC is the most improved and fixed game, check here for an example.

Further to the above a trial for AoC was out earlier this year which can be taken as a test of confidence FUNCOM have in AOC, as is the free trail for Vanguard, only that Aoc's free trail came out within a year after launch and vanguards over 2 years.

With your above comments i have to ask you when was the last time you played AoC?

As the information you have on it seems slightly outdated! Which inturn jeopardizes your whole review!!

Originally posted by daphat79

Its sad to see that Runes of Magic didnt make the list. The game is AAA Quality and holds its own. Its just an opinion but RoM should have been on the list some were. Most of the player base has came from WoW or GW and the community is great. The game play is awesome and they are not short on updates and new things coming out. With the reworked Sounds and added graphics the game is visually impressive.  The dual class system allows endless options of combos. The F2P aspect helps for those who have time and no money to invest into the game.

As far as i know RoM is MMO's Best kept secret :)

Here is the secret. It is no secret. It isn't madly popular because frankly it is the only true wow clone. It copied almost everything from WoW. Sure you got dual classes with all those combos but well only a few are very good. There are standard cookie cutter builds just like it every game.

Woah woah woah, first 1up's review of Aion and now this article with LotrO at #1 ... can't beleive people are finally getting things right  ! Good read , though Aion doesn't belong there. 

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by daphat79

Its sad to see that Runes of Magic didnt make the list. The game is AAA Quality and holds its own. Its just an opinion but RoM should have been on the list some were. Most of the player base has came from WoW or GW and the community is great. The game play is awesome and they are not short on updates and new things coming out. With the reworked Sounds and added graphics the game is visually impressive.  The dual class system allows endless options of combos. The F2P aspect helps for those who have time and no money to invest into the game.

As far as i know RoM is MMO's Best kept secret :)

 

Here is the secret. It is no secret. It isn't madly popular because frankly it is the only true wow clone. It copied almost everything from WoW. Sure you got dual classes with all those combos but well only a few are very good. There are standard cookie cutter builds just like it every game.

Still should have made the list.

2mil users in less then a year from launch.

Originally posted by solareus

Woah woah woah, first 1up's review of Aion and now this article with LotrO at #1 ... can't beleive people are finally getting things right  ! Good read , though Aion doesn't belong there. 

look at the games that have launched since WoW and tell me how theres really anything better than Aion or LOTRO.

I would have to agree with lotro being the most successfull since WoW. More or less it has probably held the most amount of playerbase.

I was dissapointed to not see warhammer online on this list though!

I bet someone from Blizzard reads this article and the forum responses and then only has one thing to say:

Hail to king baby!