^{Quote from High Fidelity - "Very nice, Rob. A sly declaration of new classic status slipped into a bunch of safe ones- very pussy!"}

Nuff Said

Interesting list.  I don't totally agree with it but I respect your opinion.

I agree with some other posters that AoC and Warhammer deserve a top 10 spot instead of  Vanguard and Club Penguin despite their issues.

The 2nd paragraph of the LOTRO blurb starts off: "World of Warcraft is an MMO player’s MMO..."  Pretty sure that you did not mean World of Warcraft there  ;)

Originally posted by Rallycart

Am I the ONLY one that noticed the following:

"It’s tough to list a game that just launched a couple weeks ago, but Icarus Studios became one of the first independent American studios to launch a new game in quite some time. Fallen Earth has the deck stacked against it. It’s not fantasy. It’s not class based. It’s not level based. But what it is, at least so far, is a good bit of fun."

 

Really? Are you sure? Did something change in the last 10 mins?

Yep, an error. Kind of.

It's a game that doesn't confine people to classes and has a more open skill system, but it also has quantifiable levels, if not in the exactly traditional sense of the word. I've tweaked that sentence to be more accurate.

Originally posted by Harlinator

The 2nd paragraph of the LOTRO blurb starts off: "World of Warcraft is an MMO player’s MMO..."  Pretty sure that you did not mean World of Warcraft there  ;)

 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Except ofcourse that the game has been released for quite a while in Asia and is a massive success.

Also note that Aion has the second highest rating on XFire for MMORPGs and have had that rating for a consecutive 22 days. All other hyped games (such as AoC, WAR) steadily lost numbers just after a couple of weeks.

Aion on Xfire has at least a 100 % error rate sample.
 

Proof: EVE has a confirmed 300K subcriptions. Aion shows 3.5 times the number of EVE on Xfire.

NEVER has Aion a possible 1.2 million players in the west after 1 week.

Proof they started with 400K at release (within one week US and one week later EU) ...You can see that on the Xfire chart.

Aion now has32 NA/EU servers. Just enough to hold on to that 400K.

So the sampled base of Xfire for Aion is simply over represented. Big chance it's due to the 5K Gold sellers who promote the game by logging through Xfire.

Quite easy to see and caluculate yourself.

BTW even though the Xfire samples for Aion are way off comapred to other games:

IN the game itself there is already an Xfire drop of around 20% in its first two weeks. That's two weeks before subscriptions set in ...

 

 

 

Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.

What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?

Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?

What you do is considered spamm.

Lotro diservs the 1. place. I agree with this list.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

"Granted it is a subjective list and everyone will have differing opinions on what should be on that list. BUT Club Penguin? I mean come on, no one in their right mind has ever heard of that game. Unless that was thrown in as a joke, you have completely lost it."

I actually have heard of and played club penguin, because of my twelve year old sister. I can assure that it is quite popular amongst its target audience.

Like he clearly states, this game is aimed at 6-14 year olds, and I don't know anyone in that age group with a decent internet connection and who lives in the US who hasn't heard of Club Penguin.

Originally posted by jus123

Lotro diservs the 1. place. I agree with this list.

 

I don't, but that is neither here nor there as this is the

"Top Ten MMO's since World of warcarft" according to Dana. So her list is for her and not for anyone else really.

This is evident from the statement "What follows is purely my opinion and I looked over every game on our list with a launch date after WoW"

I may have missed it in the posts following, but it is clearly missing from the article as to what Dana based her opinion on.

Dana, could you please enlighten us.

Thanks,

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Except ofcourse that the game has been released for quite a while in Asia and is a massive success.

Also note that Aion has the second highest rating on XFire for MMORPGs and have had that rating for a consecutive 22 days. All other hyped games (such as AoC, WAR) steadily lost numbers just after a couple of weeks.

Aion on Xfire has at least a 100 % error rate sample.
 

Proof: EVE has a confirmed 300K subcriptions. Aion shows 3.5 times the number of EVE on Xfire.

NEVER has Aion a possible 1.2 million players in the west after 1 week.

Proof they started with 400K at release (within one week US and one week later EU) ...You can see that on the Xfire chart.

Aion now has32 NA/EU servers. Just enough to hold on to that 400K.

So the sampled base of Xfire for Aion is simply over represented. Big chance it's due to the 5K Gold sellers who promote the game by logging through Xfire.

Quite easy to see and caluculate yourself.

BTW even though the Xfire samples for Aion are way off comapred to other games:

IN the game itself there is already an Xfire drop of around 20% in its first two weeks. That's two weeks before subscriptions set in ...

 

 

 

Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.

What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?

Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?

What you do is considered spamm.

 

 

I answered to someone who said that Aion has the second most rated MMO on Xfire.

And I clearly showed with EVE subs (300K)  that the Aion sample is not a correct sample on Xfire. Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm.

Never hurts to point out the flaws in someone's reasoning....

Unless there is a fundamental counter agrument why shouldn't I point out the obvious flaw in his reasoning.?

 

Zorn you and I both know your a troll, you post for one reason only to piss people off.

I don't mind trolls because I come from the same family but please for the love of all that is holy!!!! Stop pasting the same responses over and over!!!

Change it up man this forum is supposed to be entertaining, its come to the point of me knowing exactly what your going to type before I even read your post.

Seriously.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm. 

There is no fundamental reasoning behind this statement.

And dont come with the 400k number, because that's from online preorders alone and doesnt count post release sales.

lol at this list....

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by jus123

Lotro diservs the 1. place. I agree with this list.

 

 

I don't, but that is neither here nor there as this is the

"Top Ten MMO's since World of warcarft" according to Dana. So her list is for her and not for anyone else really.

This is evident from the statement "What follows is purely my opinion and I looked over every game on our list with a launch date after WoW"

I may have missed it in the posts following, but it is clearly missing from the article as to what Dana based her opinion on.

 

Dana, could you please enlighten us.

 

Thanks,

His opinion ;)

But anyway, it was as the article said entirely my opinion. I personally put more value on good reviews, high rating meter scores and general (albeit anecdotal) tone of the community than I did on guesses at subscriber numbers, but in a few cases, business also came into play when this community wasn't exactly the target audience (Wizard and Penguin).

The list is a weekly opinion column. So that's what you got. There's nothing scientific about this. I largely modeled it after sports power rankings, if that makes sense, although I don't intend to revise the list every week :)

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

lol at this list....

Indeed,
 

"They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course."

This is the conclusion from the Vanguard piece, implying that in someway VG tops AoC and WAR.

I have played all 3 titles and i find it hard to comprehend how AoC is not better in every single aspect of the game, from launch state, to content, to innovation, to graphics, to population, to development, infact every aspect.

And then to suggest that AoC can eventually chart a similar course to VG, when they are way ahead of them in the first place takes the biscuit imho!! But then again this is just someone's opinion and it is impossible to argue with that, even though majority can see that the opinion is wrong.

I find this subscriber talk funny.

For over four years now we've been saying subs dont matter and you cannot range quality by the amount of people playing it.

We used Mcdonalds and boy band references to prove that most popular doesnt equal better.

So here comes Aion it is semi popular and thats all we hear "3.5 million subs" "400k pre-orders!" Please! explain yourself, let the game stand on its own without doing what the WoW fanbois did forever (linking sub totals).

Most of the Aion fans are just hypocrites, they took a shit all over WoW fans for the sub talk and now they use it themselves.

We even have someone saying Aion should be number one due to subs lol.

it's pathetic.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

lol at this list....

Indeed,
 

"They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course."

This is the conclusion from the Vanguard piece, implying that in someway VG tops AoC and WAR.

I have played all 3 titles and i find it hard to comprehend how AoC is not better in every single aspect of the game, from launch state, to content, to innovation, to graphics, to population, to development, infact every aspect.

And then to suggest that AoC can eventually chart a similar course to VG, when they are way ahead of them in the first place takes the biscuit imho!!

When did you play Vanguard, if you don't mind me asking?

Originally posted by Zorndorf

@ Metal.
 

I post with decent reasoning and comments.

Just reread my posts and read them instead of browsing them over.

They are always nicely constructed, build up and never insulting.

Period.

Zorn thats not true at all, you flame people and go out of your way to upset players that arent fans of WoW.

How many times have you tried baiting Eve fans with that same stupid Craftable helicopter post? 20? 30 times?

How many times have we read the same Xfire post with Eve and lotro as sub examples?

If your going to troll people switch up the material please.

At least other trolls are entertaining, your posts are annoying to read.

Im being honest with you, sorry if it bothers you.

Any top 10 list that would put Vanguard in it. I would have to disagree with. Sorry

despite their shortcomings Warhammer and maybe AoC should be on that list over Vanguard and FE. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm. 

 

There is no fundamental reasoning behind this statement.

And dont come with the 400k number, because that's from online preorders alone and doesnt count post release sales.

 

The game has 18EU/14NA servers.

In Korea it has now 43 servers for 400K subs.

At launch in China it had 113 servers for 1M players in its first week.

The activity graph on Aion Xfire shows NO 3.5x  increase in its first 10 days past launch. So clearly the reasoning is sound.

The game is around 400K/500K active western players. Backed up by the total number of servers.

The samples of Aion Xfire are simply off compared to other mmo's like Eve, Wow, Lotro.

That's all we can see.

 

Keep pulling info out of your ass.

The responses in this thread show how really out of touch people on this site really are.

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

lol at this list....

Indeed,
 

"They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course."

This is the conclusion from the Vanguard piece, implying that in someway VG tops AoC and WAR.

I have played all 3 titles and i find it hard to comprehend how AoC is not better in every single aspect of the game, from launch state, to content, to innovation, to graphics, to population, to development, infact every aspect.

And then to suggest that AoC can eventually chart a similar course to VG, when they are way ahead of them in the first place takes the biscuit imho!!

When did you play Vanguard, if you don't mind me asking?

btw sorry for the "her" reference.
 

I played VG a year after release and then again recently after the trail was released and the graphic engine was sorted out(although slight hitching remained). And I am a fan of VG don't get me wrong.

So I believe i have seen it in its best state. And it has taken nearly 3 years (i may be wrong) to get to his stage. It has 3 to 4 devs working on it and the progress is slow, it doesn't even have alternative advancement properly implemented into it yet!

There exists some rudimentary sliders for Int, wis, str, etc which would make some classes different, but my main char was a rogue and given these sliders, every single rogue in VG is exactly the same, save their armor. This is an RPG, i want my char to be slightly different to the next man's char but alas we are still waiting, and given the 3 man team the wait is going to be long!

AoC has population, i am not talking about Xfire, as i don't even know what that does, i am talking about my direct experience, I know for a fact that VG has low pops and is set in a massive land, whereas AoC has a decent pop where PUGs are easily come by.

So in my opinion, VG is a great game but fails on the two aspects that make up an MMORPG, the MMO referring to Massive amount of people playing, VG=fail, or at least it feels like fail given the landscape, and the lack of class customisation lets the role playing down bit badly, AoC passes these two basic criteria easily...........imo.

Others may have different experiences, i like both games, and as such tell it as i see it.

Noted the criteria you used to compile the list, it may have been beneficial to include these in a side note of the article to avoid any confusion.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Except ofcourse that the game has been released for quite a while in Asia and is a massive success.

Also note that Aion has the second highest rating on XFire for MMORPGs and have had that rating for a consecutive 22 days. All other hyped games (such as AoC, WAR) steadily lost numbers just after a couple of weeks.

Aion on Xfire has at least a 100 % error rate sample.
 

Proof: EVE has a confirmed 300K subcriptions. Aion shows 3.5 times the number of EVE on Xfire.

NEVER has Aion a possible 1.2 million players in the west after 1 week.

Proof they started with 400K at release (within one week US and one week later EU) ...You can see that on the Xfire chart.

Aion now has32 NA/EU servers. Just enough to hold on to that 400K.

So the sampled base of Xfire for Aion is simply over represented. Big chance it's due to the 5K Gold sellers who promote the game by logging through Xfire.

Quite easy to see and caluculate yourself.

BTW even though the Xfire samples for Aion are way off comapred to other games:

IN the game itself there is already an Xfire drop of around 20% in its first two weeks. That's two weeks before subscriptions set in ...

 

 

 

Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.

What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?

Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?

What you do is considered spamm.

 

 

I answered to someone who said that Aion has the second most rated MMO on Xfire.

And I clearly showed with EVE subs (300K)  that the Aion sample is not a correct sample on Xfire. Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm.

Never hurts to point out the flaws in someone's reasoning....

Unless there is a fundamental counter agrument why shouldn't I point out the obvious flaw in his reasoning.?

 

The fundamental counter argument is that XFire is not limited to gamers in the west, as you assumed. So Aion having 1+ million subcribers worldwide could very much be how it is.

You even admit the gold sellers who, being gold sellers or not, are subscribing to the game.

The only MMO that I can think of that should be on the list is Dungeon and Dragons Online. It seems to have become popular since it's now free to play.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

 

I played VG a year after release and then again recently after the trail was released and the graphic engine was sorted out(although slight hitching remained). And I am a fan of VG don't get me wrong.

So I believe i have seen it in its best state. And it has taken nearly 3 years (i may be wrong) to get to his stage. It has 3 to 4 devs working on it and the progress is slow, it doesn't even have alternative advancement properly implemented into it yet!

There exists some rudimentary sliders for Int, wis, str, etc which would make some classes different, but my main char was a rogue and given these sliders, every single rogue in VG is exactly the same, save their armor. This is an RPG, i want my char to be slightly different to the next man's char but alas we are still waiting, and given the 3 man team the wait is going to be long!

AoC has population, i am not talking about Xfire, as i don't even know what that does, i am talking about my direct experience, I know for a fact that VG has low pops and is set in a massive land, whereas AoC has a decent pop where PUGs are easily come by.

 

So in my opinion, VG is a great game but fails on the two aspects that make up an MMORPG, the MMO referring to Massive amount of people playing, VG=fail, or at least it feels like fail given the landscape, and the lack of class customisation lets the role playing down bit badly, AoC passes these two basic criteria easily...........imo.

Others may have different experiences, i like both games, and as such tell it as i see it.

 

Noted the criteria you used to compile the list, it may have been beneficial to include these in a side note of the article to avoid any confusion.

Vanguard got the nod over WAR and Conan in my mind as a kind of "most improved" prize. I think of the three, mostly due to amount of time passed, it has made the most improvements.

All three had eerily similar launches.

Conan is improving, as is WAR, but both still have a ways to go. Vanguard, though, seems to have found its stride.

Originally posted by ronpack

The only MMO that I can think of that should be on the list is Dungeon and Dragons Online. It seems to have become popular since it's now free to play.

 Good list Dana. I agree with LoTRO being #1, but why is Club Penguin, Wizard101, Aion and Fallen Earth up there?