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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul |
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10/13/09 3:15:07 PM#2
Are you so lazy you can't make a normal link?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
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10/13/09 3:32:39 PM#3
Originally posted by Teala
I agree, it is awfull annoying. news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul |
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KarlRove
 Novice Member
Joined: 12/14/07
the person who wrote "honesty is the best policy" was a democrat |
10/13/09 3:35:22 PM#4
And the DOW drops 600 points following the vote! TORT REFORM: I am in favor of "settlement panels". Easy for the judge to look at a "best practice" settlement per offense. Who needs litigation when we can save time and money by cutting out the middle man through "comparative effectiveness"? |
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BaronJuJu
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/27/04
"Just because it happens to you doesn''t make it interesting" |
10/13/09 3:47:12 PM#5
Whats the bet on how long before the GOP tries to tear Sen. Snowe (R-Maine) apart after she voted "Yes" on the bill? My guess is her GOP warchest money is being removed as we speak. "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike" |
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10/13/09 3:58:34 PM#6
Now to see what Reid does, and what Democrats finally do when its time to merge the House and Senate bills. |
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10/13/09 3:58:39 PM#7
Its probably the most ludicrous thing I have experienced in my life. People actually think everyone being forced onto insurance being a good thing. Its pretty much a tax for being alive without the oversight of unvoluntary taxes. |
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10/13/09 4:03:45 PM#8
Originally posted by Cleffy
It just proves that liberals don't want to actually help people, they really just want to control the lives of others. |
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10/13/09 4:12:34 PM#9
Originally posted by sepher
Play ball with the dozen or so blue dog senators or risk them voting against the bill. Well..... if the vote falls on partisan lines completely with teh exception of the Blue Dogs they would only need a couple to get the President of the Senates tie breaking vote in. |
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10/13/09 4:14:11 PM#10
Originally posted by Fishermage
It just proves that liberals don't want to actually help people, they really just want to control the lives of others.
Because insurance companies telling someone that they won't pay for treating their cancer even though they pay the monthly premium isn't controlling a life at all...........................
I just hope this bill can act as a stepping stone for a complete public system. |
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10/13/09 4:15:56 PM#11
Originally posted by Cleffy
Well it's not the first time for a bill like this to come this far. They've only been working on it for over 100 years. |
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10/13/09 4:20:36 PM#12
Originally posted by Sabiancym
Because insurance companies telling someone that they won't pay for treating their cancer even though they pay the monthly premium isn't controlling a life at all...........................
I just hope this bill can act as a stepping stone for a complete public system.
Actually, it's not. Insurance companies can't throw people into jail if they disobey them. Only governments can do that. |
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10/13/09 4:21:12 PM#13
Originally posted by Sabiancym
Its not in the bill. Stop saying what can happen as a result of a bad bill when its not even there. |
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10/13/09 4:28:00 PM#14
Originally posted by Fishermage
Because insurance companies telling someone that they won't pay for treating their cancer even though they pay the monthly premium isn't controlling a life at all...........................
I just hope this bill can act as a stepping stone for a complete public system.
Actually, it's not. Insurance companies can't throw people into jail if they disobey them. Only governments can do that.
ACTUALLY, it is. Insurance companies allowing someone to die because they managed to find a small loophole in the fine print of the contract that allows them not to pay for their medical care is controlling a life.
And stop acting like the government is some all mighty being that we have no control of. The government is made up of citizens, voted in by citizens, and at the mercy of citizens. No matter how many tinfoil hats you put on. Maybe you should be mad at the voter majority instead of the government. |
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10/13/09 4:41:50 PM#15
Originally posted by Sabiancym
Actually, it's not. Insurance companies can't throw people into jail if they disobey them. Only governments can do that.
ACTUALLY, it is. Insurance companies allowing someone to die because they managed to find a small loophole in the fine print of the contract that allows them not to pay for their medical care is controlling a life.
And stop acting like the government is some all mighty being that we have no control of. The government is made up of citizens, voted in by citizens, and at the mercy of citizens. No matter how many tinfoil hats you put on. Maybe you should be mad at the voter majority instead of the government.
No one is forced (until now) to buy insurance at all. Insurance companies can give coverage or not to whomever they choose to -- it's their business. They control no one, expect when they buy off government. Forcing one person to take care of another is control, which is what you advocate -- mutual slavery. I am not mad at anyone, I simply disagree with the fascism you support. I'm calling it fascism because calling it socialism upsets you so much, and fascism is more accurate, since this is government control over the economy rather than outright ownership. |
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10/13/09 4:49:35 PM#16
To build off of Fisher: It's the doctor who has the ultimate say in whether you get the service you need as in they could perform charity or not. Please stop blaming the "evil insurance corporations" when there are clearly other actors involved. If you want to debate economics then lets do it, but stop spreading misinformation on how the world actually works. "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you either" - Batman Thanks. -Smoke Do you support Liberty, Freedom and wish to Uphold the Constitution? Join the movement - http://CampaignForLiberty.com |
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10/13/09 5:12:13 PM#17
Just for the record i'm not entirely against making it criminal to not have health insurance.
Kinda falls into that grey area of the lesser of evils imo.....
Still, this bill will have to get near full democratic support in order to go anywhere. >.>
Good luck boys, yall are going to need it |
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10/13/09 5:15:52 PM#18
Originally posted by Fishermage
Actually, it's not. Insurance companies can't throw people into jail if they disobey them. Only governments can do that.
ACTUALLY, it is. Insurance companies allowing someone to die because they managed to find a small loophole in the fine print of the contract that allows them not to pay for their medical care is controlling a life.
And stop acting like the government is some all mighty being that we have no control of. The government is made up of citizens, voted in by citizens, and at the mercy of citizens. No matter how many tinfoil hats you put on. Maybe you should be mad at the voter majority instead of the government.
No one is forced (until now) to buy insurance at all. Insurance companies can give coverage or not to whomever they choose to -- it's their business. They control no one, expect when they buy off government. Forcing one person to take care of another is control, which is what you advocate -- mutual slavery. I am not mad at anyone, I simply disagree with the fascism you support. I'm calling it fascism because calling it socialism upsets you so much, and fascism is more accurate, since this is government control over the economy rather than outright ownership.
Freedom to me is someone not having to worry about healthcare, or whether or not you will be able to eat tonight. Freedom is living with the basics covered.
Don't claim to support freedom unless you really support it. IE No government, no military protection, nothing. Unless you support that than you are nothing but a kettle calling the pot black. |
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10/13/09 5:22:30 PM#19
Originally posted by Sabiancym
Oh it will never be a right.
Just criminal not to comply.
You will still have to worry about it, cost and other issues. You will have the right to express your opinions of the service you supply to yourself, be it through your own or a community effort. Just not the right to refuse compliance. |
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10/13/09 5:47:10 PM#20
Originally posted by Sabiancym
ACTUALLY, it is. Insurance companies allowing someone to die because they managed to find a small loophole in the fine print of the contract that allows them not to pay for their medical care is controlling a life.
And stop acting like the government is some all mighty being that we have no control of. The government is made up of citizens, voted in by citizens, and at the mercy of citizens. No matter how many tinfoil hats you put on. Maybe you should be mad at the voter majority instead of the government.
No one is forced (until now) to buy insurance at all. Insurance companies can give coverage or not to whomever they choose to -- it's their business. They control no one, expect when they buy off government. Forcing one person to take care of another is control, which is what you advocate -- mutual slavery. I am not mad at anyone, I simply disagree with the fascism you support. I'm calling it fascism because calling it socialism upsets you so much, and fascism is more accurate, since this is government control over the economy rather than outright ownership.
Freedom to me is someone not having to worry about healthcare, or whether or not you will be able to eat tonight. Freedom is living with the basics covered.
Don't claim to support freedom unless you really support it. IE No government, no military protection, nothing. Unless you support that than you are nothing but a kettle calling the pot black.
In other words, you believe forced servitude is a right. I support freedom, and to that end, governments have been created. To me, the purpose of government is to preserve and protect freedom -- beyond that it has lost it's way. You believe governments are designed toi make everyone slaves. VERY different way of viewing things. Again you show you have much more reading to do.
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10/13/09 6:50:03 PM#21
Originally posted by Fishermage
ACTUALLY, it is. Insurance companies allowing someone to die because they managed to find a small loophole in the fine print of the contract that allows them not to pay for their medical care is controlling a life.
And stop acting like the government is some all mighty being that we have no control of. The government is made up of citizens, voted in by citizens, and at the mercy of citizens. No matter how many tinfoil hats you put on. Maybe you should be mad at the voter majority instead of the government.
No one is forced (until now) to buy insurance at all. Insurance companies can give coverage or not to whomever they choose to -- it's their business. They control no one, expect when they buy off government. Forcing one person to take care of another is control, which is what you advocate -- mutual slavery. I am not mad at anyone, I simply disagree with the fascism you support. I'm calling it fascism because calling it socialism upsets you so much, and fascism is more accurate, since this is government control over the economy rather than outright ownership.
Freedom to me is someone not having to worry about healthcare, or whether or not you will be able to eat tonight. Freedom is living with the basics covered.
Don't claim to support freedom unless you really support it. IE No government, no military protection, nothing. Unless you support that than you are nothing but a kettle calling the pot black.
In other words, you believe forced servitude is a right. I support freedom, and to that end, governments have been created. To me, the purpose of government is to preserve and protect freedom -- beyond that it has lost it's way. You believe governments are designed toi make everyone slaves. VERY different way of viewing things. Again you show you have much more reading to do.
Jesus christ. Do you even read your posts. They come off so snide and so arrogant it would put Donald Trump to shame.
Ending your posts with "Again you show you have much reading to do." and telling people what they believe makes you sound like a massive massive douche. You are projecting that you have read enough to know more than myself. If you toned down the arrogance and the "my shit smells good" attitude you have, some of us might actually entertain your ideas. But continuing to act like you know-it-all and that other people are below you will get you nowhere.
How many people have called you arrogant Fishermage? I know quite a few people here have, yet you blow them off and continue posting crap.
You are an asshole. Plain and simple, and I'm sick of it. I will continue debating with people like smokemonsc. At least he doesn't act like his word is law and all others just simply haven't discovered the truth yet.
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10/13/09 7:21:41 PM#22
Cloward-Piven strategy is almost complete. |
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10/13/09 8:49:16 PM#23
I think the problem everyone has with the bill is that it doesn't institute healthcare as a right. Its forcing people to buy a product. Its not like they are addressing cost. They aren't addressing universal care. They aren't addressing pharmecuticals. They aren't addressing acceptance on Insurance. They are just forcing everyone to buy insurance through fines and imprisonment. Its a being alive tax. |
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10/13/09 8:59:03 PM#24
Originally posted by Sabiancym
No one is forced (until now) to buy insurance at all. Insurance companies can give coverage or not to whomever they choose to -- it's their business. They control no one, expect when they buy off government. Forcing one person to take care of another is control, which is what you advocate -- mutual slavery. I am not mad at anyone, I simply disagree with the fascism you support. I'm calling it fascism because calling it socialism upsets you so much, and fascism is more accurate, since this is government control over the economy rather than outright ownership.
Freedom to me is someone not having to worry about healthcare, or whether or not you will be able to eat tonight. Freedom is living with the basics covered.
Don't claim to support freedom unless you really support it. IE No government, no military protection, nothing. Unless you support that than you are nothing but a kettle calling the pot black.
In other words, you believe forced servitude is a right. I support freedom, and to that end, governments have been created. To me, the purpose of government is to preserve and protect freedom -- beyond that it has lost it's way. You believe governments are designed toi make everyone slaves. VERY different way of viewing things. Again you show you have much more reading to do.
Jesus christ. Do you even read your posts. They come off so snide and so arrogant it would put Donald Trump to shame.
Ending your posts with "Again you show you have much reading to do." and telling people what they believe makes you sound like a massive massive douche. You are projecting that you have read enough to know more than myself. If you toned down the arrogance and the "my shit smells good" attitude you have, some of us might actually entertain your ideas. But continuing to act like you know-it-all and that other people are below you will get you nowhere.
How many people have called you arrogant Fishermage? I know quite a few people here have, yet you blow them off and continue posting crap.
You are an asshole. Plain and simple, and I'm sick of it. I will continue debating with people like smokemonsc. At least he doesn't act like his word is law and all others just simply haven't discovered the truth yet.
You come off equally snide; only you are also ignorant. You also sound like a massive douche -- but you also don't know what you are talking about and show that you are not very well read with every post. I am far from a know it all -- the more I know, the more I know that I don't know. I know I am arrogant; it is my biggest sin. I am working on it -- but when faced with folks like you -- it is hard not to be. My word is not law. I have made more mistakes than I can count -- been prove wrong many times and changed my whole point of view several times. I WANT a challenge -- I WANT to be proven wrong -- this brings me closer to ultimate truth. Challenge everything I say -- IF YOU CAN. The trouble is you can't and then you just get all pissed off. READ. LEARN. GROW. The kick my ass. You are a far bigger asshole than me, since you are as arrogant as me and yet you are ignorant. At least I know a few things. I'll never get sick of you or most of the people here, because I always hold out hope for everyone. Also, I admire your passion and your spunk. I enjoy you, since as I said, you are at least as arrogant as I am, and I like that. Now if you could just add some KNOWLEDGE to back it up, you could rock the place. |
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10/13/09 9:13:53 PM#25
Originally posted by smokemonsc
I don't think doctors have as much say as you would tout, yes for little things like office visits and othe minor proceedures - they could and many do do it for free. But to present that the power to treat "ultimately" risides with them is not actually true. Where would that doctor preform that proceedure? You simplify something that is not that simple. I will not say that insurance companys are "evil" so much as "soulless" entities in the business of making money off the good health of its consumers. An un-healthy consumer represents a risk to said profit and some, not all, agency's are rather suspect in how they handle those costly claims. Smoke would say that there are not folks employeed by the insrance companys' whose job is to review and deny claims - and they don't even have medical degrees or little to no medical training? Some even hypotheses that these peoples true job is to find those "loop holes" within someones policy. While I wouldn't go that far... it is scary when you hear about somone getting a bonus or raise when they've saved the company tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical claims . Freedom? You all talk about freedom and government this or that. Wake up! You are already paying for many of those uninsured because they are getting treatment and they don't have any assests that can be seized. You all pay with higher premiums and co-pays for less care, more expensive doctor visits and medicaltions, increased costs for hospital stays and treatment... I will end by saying I am not happy with anything that has been or being presented; though I have not read the new bill, but intend on doing so soon. My opinion may change with regard to the Baucus bill after I have read it for myself but my opinion about the need for health care reform remains unchanged - we need reform.
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