So, crew = power bar. Officers = sloted skill.

Originally posted by Doomsayer

I have always enjoyed the shows and movies. I am a fan, but not the type that would go to a convention or anything.

From what I have seen, they got the look of the IP down, but that's about it. What made the show great, was the interaction between the crew members. They became a family on your TV. Watch it enough, and you felt like one of them.  Usually, when one character's weakness got them in trouble, it was always some other character's strength that saved the day.

This idea that everyone will be a captain, and piloting their own ship. I don't like it one bit, and it will more than likely cause me to pass on this release. To me, its all about the players being the crew.  Them saying that this approach was unusable is total BS. Its harder, yes. It would require more design, yes. But in my opinion would have made something unique to MMORPGs and true to the IP.

It could have been so amazing. Crafter type people could have played engineers, did maintenance and upgrades to the ship and its subsystems. Combat oriented people could play security and tactical officers. Flight simulator type players could be the pilots. Social players could play various other roles on the ship including doctors, etc.

Depending on estimated players at release,  I would have had a certain amount of ships per faction available to become crew for. I would have based the tutorial on Star Fleet, designed similar things for the other factions. Depending on your performance through the tutorial I would have allowed the best "scores" to have priority to the better ships.

The ships and their captains, that is harder. Not sure I would make that player or system run. But in the end, that would have been a fun problem to tackle from a design point of view.

Those are just some quick ideas. I am sure there are plenty more to be had with an IP like Star Trek.

I think Cryptic took the easy way out, and lied about this everyone wants to be captain crap. Like some people have stated before, I think they are more interested in quick money pay out from IP interested players, than in making something original or true to the IP.

Having not played this game, I cannot know any of this for sure. These are just my impressions thus far from watching the development.

Agree completely. Saying everyone wants to be a captain is like saying everyone wants to lead a guild. No, some people are content to just let other people lead and play how they like to.
 

Even if we toss this out and continue on with the players always being captain, there still needs to be some sort of interaction with your red shirts. Make them more than just "stats" that run things and are kicked off the ship when you need more of a particular skill. Is it really that hard to interact with NPCs on a level beyond "click accept or decline after reading block of text"?

Bottom line is i want to be a captain of a ship not some schmo under another players command. Personally i wouldnt have fun that way with the game and not in it to "role Play".  If i wanted to be under someone else's command ill just do overtime at my RL job. Who wouldnt want to be Cpt Janeway, Kirk, Sisko, Archer, or Picard?  Cryptic is doing fine job and the criticisms of the crew situation to me are little unfounded.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Chases Deanna Troi with plunger)

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Bottom line is i want to be a captain of a ship not some schmo under another players command. Personally i wouldnt have fun that way with the game and not in it to "role Play".  If i wanted to be under someone else's command ill just do overtime at my RL job. Who wouldnt want to be Cpt Janeway, Kirk, Sisko, Archer, or Picard? 

The people who want to be Chakotay, Spock, Dax, T'Pol, or Geordi.

Cryptic is doing fine job and the criticisms of the crew situation to me are little unfounded.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Chases Deanna Troi with plunger)

You can't chase Deanna, she's on her OWN ship.

So many clueless posts in this thread, if you've spend the time to read at least half the stuff regarding the game on their official site, you'll probably have a somewhat different view of things.

You know why most of ST related games failed? Because devs spendt so much time creating something that looks like ST rather than making something that feels like ST.

The game hasn't started closed beta yet and it's getting raped by "all knowers" already.

I think the whole crew stuff is good, you may seem them as just "powers", but hell, tell me a game where your "skills" have the level of customization that the bridge officers will have, and on top of that you can do ground mission with them.

Also, regarding the 3 major careers (engineering/tactical/science), each has different subpaths, you want to be a medic, good, specialize in medical science and so on. Get your facts first before posting.

Originally posted by Danescu

So many clueless posts in this thread, if you've spend the time to read at least half the stuff regarding the game on their official site, you'll probably have a somewhat different view of things.

You know why most of ST related games failed? Because devs spendt so much time creating something that looks like ST rather than making something that feels like ST.

That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

[quote]Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

---

That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

---

Most people in here are moaning about the game not being Trek, not that it doesn't feel like Trek (hard to make that assumption when the game hasn't been even tested by outsiders yet).

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Bottom line is i want to be a captain of a ship not some schmo under another players command. Personally i wouldnt have fun that way with the game and not in it to "role Play".  If i wanted to be under someone else's command ill just do overtime at my RL job. Who wouldnt want to be Cpt Janeway, Kirk, Sisko, Archer, or Picard? 

The people who want to be Chakotay, Spock, Dax, T'Pol, or Geordi.

Cryptic is doing fine job and the criticisms of the crew situation to me are little unfounded.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Chases Deanna Troi with plunger)

You can't chase Deanna, she's on her OWN ship.

Thats fine for the ppl who want to role play, but comapnies dont make games that are successful for a niche group of role players. You would also be  (possibly) subject to guild rules or worse someone else's whim if you ever get promoted, become captain or  get your own ship. If that ever happened or cryptic made it that way i wouldnt play the game and im pretty sure most other players maybe looking to try the game wouldnt either or quit soon after.

Could you imagine picking up the box in the store with this on it? "Be a crewmember on a Federation or Klingon ship and work your way up to being in command of your own ship?" LOL that sell......not! Cryptic could implemnet and option for players under one ship but an option only.

BTW the ST novels arent canon and Deanna Troi doesnt have her own ship.

(AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH dances on Picard's chair)

Already pre-ordered my collector edition woot!

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Danescu

So many clueless posts in this thread, if you've spend the time to read at least half the stuff regarding the game on their official site, you'll probably have a somewhat different view of things.

You know why most of ST related games failed? Because devs spendt so much time creating something that looks like ST rather than making something that feels like ST.

That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

What one person "feels" is Trek and and other's are different things, but not wrong.

(AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH stops to Look at Wesley Crusher...fires Plungers to nut sack)

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Thats fine for the ppl who want to role play, but comapnies dont make games that are successful for a niche group of role players. You would also be  (possibly) subject to guild rules or worse someone else's whim if you ever get promoted, become captain or  get your own ship. If that ever happened or cryptic made it that way i wouldnt play the game and im pretty sure most other players maybe looking to try the game wouldnt either or quit soon after.

Could you imagine picking up the box in the store with this on it? "Be a crewmember on a Federation or Klingon ship and work your way up to being in command of your own ship?" LOL that sell......not!

I think most Trek fans would love that. As long as they had the Riker option.

Cryptic could implemnet and option for players under one ship but an option only.

BTW the ST novels arent canon and Deanna Troi doesnt have her own ship.

(AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH dances on Picard's chair)

I wasn't referring to the novels. I was pointing out that anyone playing STO who wanted to 'be' Deanna Troi' would be forced to be on her own ship, rather than part of a crew.

Also: what's canon about away teams comprised of several captains?

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Thats fine for the ppl who want to role play, but comapnies dont make games that are successful for a niche group of role players. You would also be  (possibly) subject to guild rules or worse someone else's whim if you ever get promoted, become captain or  get your own ship. If that ever happened or cryptic made it that way i wouldnt play the game and im pretty sure most other players maybe looking to try the game wouldnt either or quit soon after.

Could you imagine picking up the box in the store with this on it? "Be a crewmember on a Federation or Klingon ship and work your way up to being in command of your own ship?" LOL that sell......not!

I think most Trek fans would love that. As long as they had the Riker option.

Cryptic could implemnet and option for players under one ship but an option only.

BTW the ST novels arent canon and Deanna Troi doesnt have her own ship.

(AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH dances on Picard's chair)

I wasn't referring to the novels. I was pointing out that anyone playing STO who wanted to 'be' Deanna Troi' would be forced to be on her own ship, rather than part of a crew.

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

Also: what's canon about away teams comprised of several captains?

What!!!??? Several captains have worked to gether on away teams have not seen the movies?

(AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ..stops and looks at 7 of 9.....falls in love.....)

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Also: what's canon about away teams comprised of several captains?

What!!!??? Several captains have worked to gether on away teams have not seen the movies?

 

(AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ..stops and looks at 7 of 9.....falls in love.....)

Most Star Trek adventures are one problem, one ship, one captian and one crew.  Very seldom is there more than one of any of these except problems.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Also: what's canon about away teams comprised of several captains?

What!!!??? Several captains have worked to gether on away teams have not seen the movies?

 

(AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ..stops and looks at 7 of 9.....falls in love.....)

 

Most Star Trek adventures are one problem, one ship, one captian and one crew.  Very seldom is there more than one of any of these except problems.

You and many others are being extremely linear here and focusing on the limitation from 1 captain or crew's perspective. Star Trek  has many ships...many crews...many problems from varing races and empires. Im sorry folks but forced grouping and limiting play on the whims of others being online isnt cool or going to last long.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Dances with 7 of 9)

Originally posted by Djfusion

Originally posted by DeaconX

I'm sure I'll probably get flamed for this, but I still think it would have been a lot cooler design for the game if it took 'guilds' to run large ships... if the game leant more towards a 'simulation' feel.  I could be totally wrong... we'll see what Cryptic does.. but after playing Champions Online, I'm not expecting anything revolutionary or even really impressive...

 

While that is understandable, its just not reasonable. Not only would it make a lot of people NOT play, having to make sure your whole guild is on just to fly or even a certain amount. That and the certain jobs on the ship would be way too tedious or just incredibly boring. They chose what fits best for everyone, and sorry but manning your own ship is still pretty frickin sweet...

Your counter arguments have been debunked countless times, both here and on the STO forums. Your entire guild would NOT have to be on...any vacant stations could be filled with NPCs, like the night crew. As for the tedious jobs, that's a complete strawman argument -- pointing out an obvious deficiency to tear down the whole concept. Quite intellectually dishonest really. Of course you wouldn't create the Star Ship Janitor position; that's a no brainer. But one could create enough of the interesting crew positions to make the system viable.

That is if a company had the will and the vision to do so.

Originally posted by Danescu

[quote]Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

---

That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

---

 

Most people in here are moaning about the game not being Trek, not that it doesn't feel like Trek (hard to make that assumption when the game hasn't been even tested by outsiders yet).

And yet I can look at what BioWare is doing, and the info they have released and say with a resounding YES, that BioWare understands Star Wars, and that SW:TOR feels like the Star Wars universe.

Now I happen to think Cryptic is a skilled company that has unfortunately made some really bad decisions with STO. I think they could have done for Star Trek what BioWare is doing for Star Wars. But alas, they have decided not to.

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by Danescu

[quote]Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

---

That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

---

 

Most people in here are moaning about the game not being Trek, not that it doesn't feel like Trek (hard to make that assumption when the game hasn't been even tested by outsiders yet).

 

And yet I can look at what BioWare is doing, and the info they have released and say with a resounding YES, that BioWare understands Star Wars, and that SW:TOR feels like the Star Wars universe.

Now I happen to think Cryptic is a skilled company that has unfortunately made some really bad decisions with STO. I think they could have done for Star Trek what BioWare is doing for Star Wars. But alas, they have decided not to.

Its more that they are cutting corners on design to meet thier obligation to Paramount in the time allotted.  I would go as far as say Chamipions probably suffered its crappy launch as a result of Paramount's insistance on staying on schedule.  This is a theme that rang true for another "Star" MMO.

tbh i would play this game if they took a SWG approach (not saying i want the game exactly like it). As in you're main person is yourself .... and you build a starship and pilot it with others, not giving every single person in the game their own starship. I dunno it loses its feel when there are a couple hundred thousand other people just like you with a ship. It also may not be completely star trek since alot of the episodes were spent on the ship, but i would enjoy the fact owning and captaining/piloting a ship meant something.

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

 

 

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.

To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Also: what's canon about away teams comprised of several captains?

What!!!??? Several captains have worked to gether on away teams have not seen the movies?

 

(AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ..stops and looks at 7 of 9.....falls in love.....)

 

Most Star Trek adventures are one problem, one ship, one captian and one crew.  Very seldom is there more than one of any of these except problems.

 

You and many others are being extremely linear here and focusing on the limitation from 1 captain or crew's perspective. Star Trek  has many ships...many crews...many problems from varing races and empires. Im sorry folks but forced grouping and limiting play on the whims of others being online isnt cool or going to last long.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Dances with 7 of 9)

...and once you have played out the limited content on your three different Captains (Eng., Sci, Command), you leave without a care to what the game offers further.

(7 pull you close and says, "Resistance is futile, you will be assimulated" as she injects you with Borg Nanites.  You then become another MMO drone.)

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

 

 

 

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.

To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

Totally agree, Cerion.

Focus niche market, then broaden out much like EVE.

I like the direction crytic is going and hope they don't ever head in the direction of crewing a startship, way too boring for me.  Since you guys just can't quit crying over the direction maybe this would help silence your unwarrented critisim, call it Star Fleet battles!  I love that old board game and if they want to head in that direction its fine by me.  At least my crowd won't whine everyday because they added in contant such as planet exploration and crew member NPC's!  I actually celebrate the additions!

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

 

 

 

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.

To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

Just because you cannot conceive it, does not make it inconceivable.  Appealing to varying audiences is the key to a successful MMO.  The fact is, there just aren't enough Star Trek nerds out there to make the game viable on it's own.  Without a broad audience, it will fail.

"To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. "

You assume to much as I'm betting most of with opposing views are Star Trek fans also.  I've been a fan since the late 60's and I certainly don't want anything to do with a game that based on crew members.  No matter how many times you guys say what each crew member will do durning a mission it always equates to BORING in my opinion.  I'd rather play a red shirt and die fast then hang around the bridge/engine room/etc pretending to do some repetitive mudane task required just to provide me with busy work.  How much do you really thinkl they can add to mission to somehow keep every member busy doing something that is both meaningful and FUN?  I forsee 90% boredom and 10% action if a game was truely based on crew members.  The crew member idea is appealing to the "old camping crowd" of EQ as it more a social event/gathering, you won't see any major company trying to please such a minority.

The crew of your ship should be more than a simple stat. That is the easy way out. Of course I'm not surprised. Virtually everything Cryptic puts out about STO is garbage in my opinion.

---

Originally posted by Cerion

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.
To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

---

Ha ha! Forward thinking and sound reasoning are not something you typically find in dev teams...at least not when they have to think about paying back that 50 mil their employer borrowed to make the game in the first place.