Originally posted by biplex

Ultima Online was total crap. I tried it when it started and it sucked big time, i have to yet see other game as boring as UO. But i understand you might have liked it. So if UO is all that good in your opinion, why the hell are you not playing it anymore, just bore us with all that pointless whining.

Ultima Online is really not what this topic is about, but thanks for the input as constructive as it was.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Thenarius

They are on their game's official forums, talking about them in Off-topic sides of the forum. Honestly,  I kinda agree with you, but I also agree with them, nobody actually bothered to make a MMO with UO's mechanics(nope, Darkfall isn't one). People are just asking for that, nothing more.

 

Who? 

WHO are asking for that?  Where are all these people?  Because all I see are a few million people playing World of Warcraft.  Where are all these people clamoring to get an updated UO-like game with those mechanics?  I don't want to seem like I'm coming down on you, but every damn day, I come here, and instead of seeing threads about *new* games, I have to wade through recent-post after recent-post of guys waxing nostalgic about a game that was released over a decade ago, saying the same tired things, over and over. 

The way I see it, you guys that want something resembling UO need to bundle together and write your own damn game.  Seriously.  Then quibble amongst yourselves over every miniscule detail and see where that gets you.  Make sure you release it when you guys agree on everything.  Then, you should be happy.

I'll be waiting here for the release of the game.  Or actually, alt-tab'd into a game...having...fun.  You remember what that was like, right?

You have a lot of pent up anger.    Maybe it isn't us that have the issues it is you.    You said your peace, why do you insist on constantly trying to derail this discussion and make it all about what you want - because that is what you're doing.    Go play your game and have fun.   If people wish to be nostalgic and discuss games of old and games of the future - that's their business.   Nobody is twisting your arm to read these post you know.
 

Originally posted by biplex

Ultima Online was total crap. I tried it when it started and it sucked big time, i have to yet see other game as boring as UO. But i understand you might have liked it. So if UO is all that good in your opinion, why the hell are you not playing it anymore, just bore us with all that pointless whining.

Some of us do still play it. We also have just as much right to post on these forums about the games we like as you do.

Originally posted by sevitoth

Originally posted by biplex

Ultima Online was total crap. I tried it when it started and it sucked big time, i have to yet see other game as boring as UO. But i understand you might have liked it. So if UO is all that good in your opinion, why the hell are you not playing it anymore, just bore us with all that pointless whining.

 

Some of us do still play it. We also have just as much right to post on these forums about the games we like as you do.

I play Ultima Online still, but I also play World of Warcraft. =)

Originally posted by sevitoth

If reading a forum made me as unhappy as you appear to be, I would probably stop reading that forum....

Who are you to come here on these forums and tell us what to talk about? If you don't like the discussions on this forum then maybe you should find another forum. It's not all about you....

I'm not unhappy.  I'm at work, and *bored*.  Reading the same threads, again and again. 

I'll answer the question in this thread, quite easily;  whatever happened to MMORPGS?  The people that played them from the beginning never left the basement, and are bitter about it.  The genre moved on, became mainstream and accessible to those that have lives away from a keyboard, and the 'old-timers' can't stand it.  The 'old-timers' had their little virtual worlds invaded by normal people, and don't know how to react.  So, they sit, remembering games for them, by them, comprised of them, unable to recapture that magic they felt when they first logged into something new.

Guess what.  That's GONE.  It's not coming back, and the genre will never go back in that direction.  People don't play MMOs nowdays  to be in some rich, immersive world...because they already live in a REAL rich and immersive world.  And I, for one, don't play -games- so I can have a second, non-paying job that takes up all the rest of my free time.  MMOs are pass-times now, and I'm glad companies like Blizzard came along and dragged the genre out of the basement .

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by biplex

Ultima Online was total crap. I tried it when it started and it sucked big time, i have to yet see other game as boring as UO. But i understand you might have liked it. So if UO is all that good in your opinion, why the hell are you not playing it anymore, just bore us with all that pointless whining.

 

Ultima Online is really not what this topic is about, but thanks for the input as constructive as it was.

lol my hats off to you for remaining so civil to these little tard-strong idiots.  These little boys are what I like to call eye-twitchers.  They sit on a forum and for no reason, other than perhaps being medically unstable, decide to spaz out about the tiniest topic.  These are the guys argueing with themselves in a public bathroom stall while taking a mud thumper.

I get what you are saying.  mmorpgs seem to follow one path now..it seems everyone is afraid to go niche and be profitably stable enough just to keep their game going.  Everyone wants to go 'Happy Meal' with it.

I take it these yahoos didn't get their bakugan toy with theirs. :)

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by Gravarg

The new generation of MMORPGs (if you want to call them that) are really nothing more than single player RPGs that you play online, with little or no interatction with anyone else.  During my time in WoW, AoC, War, Eve, etc. I hardly ever talked to anyone outside my guild or friend list.  Likewise, noone ever talked to me.  In the old days of UO, DAoC, and EQ1, everyone talked to everyone.

 

Isn't that the truth? There was actual real social interaction and cooperation. Not the drum beat of consistent repetition.

They still talk, but now it's hormone driven kiddie drivel. What I miss the the RP. I remember when the troll players would talk like trolls etc. The players actually helped create the atmosphere of the game. But remember back then, you HAD to be at least 18 to play. The only option to pay was a credit card, and if the player was under 18, they had to have parental consent.

The reason WoW got so popular so fast was it was made for kids and appealed to kids. There was a huge market there that the existing MMORGs only barely tolerated. Now I hear parents talk about how mature their 8 year old is and how well "little johny" does in the game. Honestly, with some of the adult conversation that happens in the games, I really don't want to think of "little johny" being exposed to that, AND it also means the game is made so simple, even an 8 year old can play? PAHLEASE!!

For those that complain about the old mmorgs, how hard they were, etc; the simple answer is, they weren't made for you, they were made for adults. The idea wasn't to rush to the top level as fast as possible, it was to escape for a few hours from the realities of adult life.

There are still good games being made. I play FE atm and that game has showed me a lot what is wrong with the wow-inspired themepark games in relation to having the games have a social function:

Its the way the world doesn't really reward you for general activities and only quests does so.

The result is that people run around from quest to quest and generally does not interact with each other or the world. WoW started it and everyone else have copied it because its an easy way to lure people into activities without having to really set down and design things well enough for the gameworld to actually be a living place.

Now in FE you can still solo as much as you want, but its not the quests that is your general source of items, xp and money. Its the general gameworld and what you do in interaction with the enviroment that generate the things you need to move on. This combined with the fact that you have to discover for yourself how it works means that people interact with each other in order to act in the enviroment.

You talk to people you meet on the road when you are both looking for some gear out of old cars. You go on and help each other against difficult tasks (game is set so you don't even need to group for completing objectives, you just have to be a part of the process in the place for things to progress) and people constantly ask each other for information about this and that because other players is _the_ source of information about what happens in the game, game doesn't spoon feed you.

And the world is BIG and open, the general map is 100 x 100 km but only about 10% of it is currently decontaminated and habitable, its still about 1000 square km of game area and there is no load screens anywhere and I have seen 1 instance in the entire game.

And Icarus is only one company that moves away from the themepark model atm, the small indy companies are leading the way out of the trap the old big companies are moving themselves into. Another example is APB, its the opposite of everything FE is standing for, its instant action, no lvl'ing and constant combat between players and yet it has the RPG elements of building up your character over time and create something in your gameworld.

We can never return to the old games, any attempt at recreating the past will always end up with a sick result, but its still possible to see good games being created and they are. Just support them if you like them so they will keep on being made.

Originally posted by Drakaran

For those that complain about the old mmorgs, how hard they were, etc; the simple answer is, they weren't made for you, they were made for adults. The idea wasn't to rush to the top level as fast as possible, it was to escape for a few hours from the realities of adult life.

Funny you should mention that.  The last surviving EQ player at my workplace, was just divorced by his second wife (whom he met in EQ) because he plays too much.  And he's still playing.  Those games didn't allow you to escape life; they -became- life. 

A little variety in the genre would be nice.

  Games havent changed all that much. From NWN AOL to Wow its all basically the same. Its the people which changed which play the games. I still have a blast RPing on basically every MMO because I have a 200 strong RP guild. Basically I just have to laugh when I see posts like this. The only thing lacking, is integrity.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Drakaran

For those that complain about the old mmorgs, how hard they were, etc; the simple answer is, they weren't made for you, they were made for adults. The idea wasn't to rush to the top level as fast as possible, it was to escape for a few hours from the realities of adult life.

 

Funny you should mention that.  The last surviving EQ player at my workplace, was just divorced by his second wife (whom he met in EQ) because he plays too much.  And he's still playing.  Those games didn't allow you to escape life; they -became- life. 

WoW could mess up peoples lives to.  Dont just single out EQ any mmo could be addicting to certain people.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by sevitoth

If reading a forum made me as unhappy as you appear to be, I would probably stop reading that forum....

Who are you to come here on these forums and tell us what to talk about? If you don't like the discussions on this forum then maybe you should find another forum. It's not all about you....

 

I'm not unhappy.  I'm at work, and *bored*.  Reading the same threads, again and again. 

I'll answer the question in this thread, quite easily;  whatever happened to MMORPGS?  The people that played them from the beginning never left the basement, and are bitter about it.  The genre moved on, became mainstream and accessible to those that have lives away from a keyboard, and the 'old-timers' can't stand it.  The 'old-timers' had their little virtual worlds invaded by normal people, and don't know how to react.  So, they sit, remembering games for them, by them, comprised of them, unable to recapture that magic they felt when they first logged into something new.

Guess what.  That's GONE.  It's not coming back, and the genre will never go back in that direction.  People don't play MMOs nowdays  to be in some rich, immersive world...because they already live in a REAL rich and immersive world.  And I, for one, don't play -games- so I can have a second, non-paying job that takes up all the rest of my free time.  MMOs are pass-times now, and I'm glad companies like Blizzard came along and dragged the genre out of the basement .

I play MMO's to escape real life for a little while and have fun. It is of course about entertainment, literally no different than watching sports in that respect.

Regardless, history has a habitual tendency to repeat itself. Having said that, I'm not particularly interested in reviving old school games, but I am interested in developing a game that includes various features from old games and putting forth conceptually a game that incorporates a new way of looking at an MMO rather than what we have on the market today. Variety if you will.

Originally posted by SeriphinX

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by biplex

Ultima Online was total crap. I tried it when it started and it sucked big time, i have to yet see other game as boring as UO. But i understand you might have liked it. So if UO is all that good in your opinion, why the hell are you not playing it anymore, just bore us with all that pointless whining.

 

Ultima Online is really not what this topic is about, but thanks for the input as constructive as it was.

 

lol my hats off to you for remaining so civil to these little tard-strong idiots.  These little boys are what I like to call eye-twitchers.  They sit on a forum and for no reason, other than perhaps being medically unstable, decide to spaz out about the tiniest topic.  These are the guys argueing with themselves in a public bathroom stall while taking a mud thumper.

I get what you are saying.  mmorpgs seem to follow one path now..it seems everyone is afraid to go niche and be profitably stable enough just to keep their game going.  Everyone wants to go 'Happy Meal' with it.

I take it these yahoos didn't get their bakugan toy with theirs. :)

I think it'll be interesting for those that are uncomfortable with the idea of having variety to really get to dive into an MMORPG on a level that they haven't experienced before and get their hands dirty and enjoy developing a character and interacting with the gaming world in a way they haven't before.

Then perhaps this won't seem so alien to them. Inevitably a game like that will come along to challenge the paradigm.

Originally posted by afoaa

There are still good games being made. I play FE atm and that game has showed me a lot what is wrong with the wow-inspired themepark games in relation to having the games have a social function:

Its the way the world doesn't really reward you for general activities and only quests does so.

The result is that people run around from quest to quest and generally does not interact with each other or the world. WoW started it and everyone else have copied it because its an easy way to lure people into activities without having to really set down and design things well enough for the gameworld to actually be a living place.

Now in FE you can still solo as much as you want, but its not the quests that is your general source of items, xp and money. Its the general gameworld and what you do in interaction with the enviroment that generate the things you need to move on. This combined with the fact that you have to discover for yourself how it works means that people interact with each other in order to act in the enviroment.

You talk to people you meet on the road when you are both looking for some gear out of old cars. You go on and help each other against difficult tasks (game is set so you don't even need to group for completing objectives, you just have to be a part of the process in the place for things to progress) and people constantly ask each other for information about this and that because other players is _the_ source of information about what happens in the game, game doesn't spoon feed you.

And the world is BIG and open, the general map is 100 x 100 km but only about 10% of it is currently decontaminated and habitable, its still about 1000 square km of game area and there is no load screens anywhere and I have seen 1 instance in the entire game.

And Icarus is only one company that moves away from the themepark model atm, the small indy companies are leading the way out of the trap the old big companies are moving themselves into. Another example is APB, its the opposite of everything FE is standing for, its instant action, no lvl'ing and constant combat between players and yet it has the RPG elements of building up your character over time and create something in your gameworld.

We can never return to the old games, any attempt at recreating the past will always end up with a sick result, but its still possible to see good games being created and they are. Just support them if you like them so they will keep on being made.

What is FE? I'm curious about it now ;)

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Drakaran

For those that complain about the old mmorgs, how hard they were, etc; the simple answer is, they weren't made for you, they were made for adults. The idea wasn't to rush to the top level as fast as possible, it was to escape for a few hours from the realities of adult life.

 

Funny you should mention that.  The last surviving EQ player at my workplace, was just divorced by his second wife (whom he met in EQ) because he plays too much.  And he's still playing.  Those games didn't allow you to escape life; they -became- life. 

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with video games and I really disagree that it's the game itself and not the person playing it that is responsible for the events that transpire in their real life.

It is up to them to step back and say, "Enough today."

Originally posted by Techleo

  Games havent changed all that much. From NWN AOL to Wow its all basically the same. Its the people which changed which play the games. I still have a blast RPing on basically every MMO because I have a 200 strong RP guild. Basically I just have to laugh when I see posts like this. The only thing lacking, is integrity.

I disagree, there are some very distinct differences between NWN and WoW as well as some of the older pioneer games and the newer games.

Having a 200 strong RP guild is probably very entertaining, that's something I would enjoy. That would definitely enrich a gaming environment regardless of the gameplay. However, complimentary gameplay is very important to the success of a game. The RP element is a state of mind to me. I'm more or less talking about the actual gameplay mechanics.

Roleplaying has been replaced by action and item progression.

Originally posted by Morv

I play MMO's to escape real life for a little while and have fun. It is of course about entertainment, literally no different than watching sports in that respect.

Regardless, history has a habitual tendency to repeat itself. Having said that, I'm not particularly interested in reviving old school games, but I am interested in developing a game that includes various features from old games and putting forth conceptually a game that incorporates a new way of looking at an MMO rather than what we have on the market today. Variety if you will.

I would embrace that with open arms, right along with you, but I don't see that happening.  I'd love to see something new, but I fear nothing new will come out, until Blizzard releases something new and different, thereby giving the other dev houses something to copy.  Most of them are blinded by dollar signs, and will only pump out what they think is the secret formula for WoW's success.  And they fail.  Blizzard *is* the genre now.  iPod is to MP3 players what WoW is to MMOs. 

The only company I have even the slightest bit of faith to put out something new and interesting, is CCP. 

Originally posted by metalhead980

A little variety in the genre would be nice.

 

I believe this is my point exactly. I'm not asking to go back in time I'm asking to add more to these games.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Aganazer

Instances and AH's are the least of my concerns when it comes to the direction of MMORPG's. Its the complete and utter dumbing down of everything in the genre that concerns me. The nearly complete removal of all character development choices (Aion). The utter reliance of linear quest progression (Champions). The simplicity of gameplay that does not require the player to pay much attention at all let alone think about what they are doing. The focus on gamey features like guild level, player level, PvP rankings, etc. The entire genre is catering to a bunch of brain dead idiots.

 

I gotta ask...what the hell do you consider "fun"?  What do any of you people that drone on about AC, UO and EQ...what did you guys consider so "fun" about those games?

Because I honestly thought they sucked, but a big part of that probably had to do with the basement-dweller communities in those games.  I think you guys are just being nostalgic and looking at it all through rose-tinted glasses.  Honestly, I wish all of you guys blathering on about UO would just GO PLAY IT, if it's so incredible.  There, problem solved. 

You can insult the community all you want, but it was 100x stronger than the communities we have today and that made all the difference in the world.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Morv

I play MMO's to escape real life for a little while and have fun. It is of course about entertainment, literally no different than watching sports in that respect.

Regardless, history has a habitual tendency to repeat itself. Having said that, I'm not particularly interested in reviving old school games, but I am interested in developing a game that includes various features from old games and putting forth conceptually a game that incorporates a new way of looking at an MMO rather than what we have on the market today. Variety if you will.

 

I would embrace that with open arms, right along with you, but I don't see that happening.  I'd love to see something new, but I fear nothing new will come out, until Blizzard releases something new and different, thereby giving the other dev houses something to copy.  Most of them are blinded by dollar signs, and will only pump out what they think is the secret formula for WoW's success.  And they fail.  Blizzard *is* the genre now.  iPod is to MP3 players what WoW is to MMOs. 

The only company I have even the slightest bit of faith to put out something new and interesting, is CCP. 

They're the ones that developed Eve online right? Are they planning another MMO?

I forgot they were developing Dust-514

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Morv

I play MMO's to escape real life for a little while and have fun. It is of course about entertainment, literally no different than watching sports in that respect.

Regardless, history has a habitual tendency to repeat itself. Having said that, I'm not particularly interested in reviving old school games, but I am interested in developing a game that includes various features from old games and putting forth conceptually a game that incorporates a new way of looking at an MMO rather than what we have on the market today. Variety if you will.

 

I would embrace that with open arms, right along with you, but I don't see that happening.  I'd love to see something new, but I fear nothing new will come out, until Blizzard releases something new and different, thereby giving the other dev houses something to copy.  Most of them are blinded by dollar signs, and will only pump out what they think is the secret formula for WoW's success.  And they fail.  Blizzard *is* the genre now.  iPod is to MP3 players what WoW is to MMOs. 

The only company I have even the slightest bit of faith to put out something new and interesting, is CCP. 

 

They're the ones that developed Eve online right? Are they planning another MMO?

They have two MMOs in development. Dust 514 a Fps shooter mmo on consoles and World of Darkness a Vampire/Gothic MMO.

Yes they created Eve.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Morv

I play MMO's to escape real life for a little while and have fun. It is of course about entertainment, literally no different than watching sports in that respect.

Regardless, history has a habitual tendency to repeat itself. Having said that, I'm not particularly interested in reviving old school games, but I am interested in developing a game that includes various features from old games and putting forth conceptually a game that incorporates a new way of looking at an MMO rather than what we have on the market today. Variety if you will.

 

I would embrace that with open arms, right along with you, but I don't see that happening.  I'd love to see something new, but I fear nothing new will come out, until Blizzard releases something new and different, thereby giving the other dev houses something to copy.  Most of them are blinded by dollar signs, and will only pump out what they think is the secret formula for WoW's success.  And they fail.  Blizzard *is* the genre now.  iPod is to MP3 players what WoW is to MMOs. 

The only company I have even the slightest bit of faith to put out something new and interesting, is CCP. 

 

They're the ones that developed Eve online right? Are they planning another MMO?

They have two MMOs in development. Dust 514 a Fps shooter mmo on consoles and World of Darkness a Vampire/Gothic MMO.

Yes they created Eve.

Given the style with which they built Eve it'll be interesting to see how Wolrd of Darkness turns out. They at least understand something of what persistent means.

Originally posted by Thenarius

Originally posted by sevitoth

The huge success of  World of Warcraft has steered mmorpgs in the themepark direction. It's all about the money, and game developers want the kind of money that WOW brings in. They don't really care what you and me want, the bottom line is how much money they can make.

Back when UO was new, mmorpgs were a niche gaming market, not very many people played them. WOW brought in millions of gamers to mmorpgs, and game companies are trying to capitalize on this new mmorpg crowd. The old school niche gamers are a small portion of the mmorpg playerbase, so developers don't write games for us anymore.

 

Isn't it supposed to be common sense that you can't reach WoW's numbers/success with a WoW clone? ._.

You would think so. Game companies - or more specifically the "suits" and bean counters at the publishing companies - don't see things in common sense, though. They only see in dollar signs. The WoW model = a lot of $$$$, so that's what theyr'e trying to capture. It happens in any market. Something is successful and you see everyone else making some cheap knock-off trying to duplicate it to cash in on the market while it's still popular. Eventually, said market becomes saturated with cheap, derivative crap knock-offs, people get sick of it (we seem to be reaching that point in MMOs) and so the companies move on to find the next bandwagon to jump on.

In terms of bringing people to the genre, WoW was the best thing that could have happened. In terms of MMO developers continuing to create unique worlds with a lot of depth and variety, WoW was the worst thing that could have happened to the genre.