Why are MMORPGs continually gravitating towards these instanced, auction house based monstrosities?

I'm just wondering if this is really what the majority of players really want? Does anyone remember Ultima Online? Or the fact that you could build and own a house that other people could actually walk around.

Or purchasing vendors and placing them in front of the house and selling wares from these vendors. Or going to a Castle that had been converted so that multiple people could place vendors and it essentially became a mall?

It just seems we've drifted so far away from the concept of a persistent world and more into these weird cookie cutter games that offer no immersion at all...

I remember running around for 3 hours shopping in Ultima Online, had a blast, didn't buy anything but I still had fun.

I sincerely hope that game developers, or myself if I ever get that far, look into a more robust gaming experience with some of the following:

Houses that can be built or constructed piece by piece and the ability to watch them be built.

Vendor capability with that house, I'm not saying we eliminate a local market but make the vendors a possibility as well.

Teleporting, marking similar to Ultima Online, bring back the runebooks and that capability.

A very interactive and reactive Artifical Intelligence that can and will interact with the players. I know this is expensive but it'd be worth it. Nothing like having a farmer literally plant, and maintain a farm right before your eyes, or interact with the player rather than standing in one place. This to me seems to be a key component.

The ability to go into a cave and find an underground ruined city, and then be able to rebuilt it anew. Permanently... You know, that pesky concept of persistent.

Allow me to drop something on the ground.

To be able to build an empire complete with interactive NPCs that work for the player/guild. Different kinds of rulership including magocracies..etc...

Anything anyone else want to add? I didn't want to go on and on. There's plenty more I'd hope to see (notice I didn't say expect), from the game developers in the world.

The huge success of  World of Warcraft has steered mmorpgs in the themepark direction. It's all about the money, and game developers want the kind of money that WOW brings in. They don't really care what you and me want, the bottom line is how much money they can make.

Back when UO was new, mmorpgs were a niche gaming market, not very many people played them. WOW brought in millions of gamers to mmorpgs, and game companies are trying to capitalize on this new mmorpg crowd. The old school niche gamers are a small portion of the mmorpg playerbase, so developers don't write games for us anymore.

Originally posted by sevitoth

The huge success of  World of Warcraft has steered mmorpgs in the themepark direction. It's all about the money, and game developers want the kind of money that WOW brings in. They don't really care what you and me want, the bottom line is how much money they can make.

Back when UO was new, mmorpgs were a niche gaming market, not very many people played them. WOW brought in millions of gamers to mmorpgs, and game companies are trying to capitalize on this new mmorpg crowd. The old school niche gamers are a small portion of the mmorpg playerbase, so developers don't write games for us anymore.

 

Isn't it supposed to be common sense that you can't reach WoW's numbers/success with a WoW clone? ._.

Instances and AH's are the least of my concerns when it comes to the direction of MMORPG's. Its the complete and utter dumbing down of everything in the genre that concerns me. The nearly complete removal of all character development choices (Aion). The utter reliance of linear quest progression (Champions). The simplicity of gameplay that does not require the player to pay much attention at all let alone think about what they are doing. The focus on gamey features like guild level, player level, PvP rankings, etc. The entire genre is catering to a bunch of brain dead idiots.

For the last time; no one CARES about UO anymore.  Get over it.  Move on.  You're not the same person you were when MMOs were new and revolutionary, and the games are different as well.  Let it go. 

Originally posted by Thenarius

Originally posted by sevitoth

The huge success of  World of Warcraft has steered mmorpgs in the themepark direction. It's all about the money, and game developers want the kind of money that WOW brings in. They don't really care what you and me want, the bottom line is how much money they can make.

Back when UO was new, mmorpgs were a niche gaming market, not very many people played them. WOW brought in millions of gamers to mmorpgs, and game companies are trying to capitalize on this new mmorpg crowd. The old school niche gamers are a small portion of the mmorpg playerbase, so developers don't write games for us anymore.

 

Isn't it supposed to be common sense that you can't reach WoW's numbers/success with a WoW clone? ._.

You would think so. I guess that the thought of making tons of money blinds people.

I've just gone back to playing the old school mmorgs (UO, DAOC) until this fad of themepark mmorpgs wears off. Unfortunately it's probably gonna be a few more years before it does.

Originally posted by Eben

For the last time; no one CARES about UO anymore.  Get over it.  Move on.  You're not the same person you were when MMOs were new and revolutionary, and the games are different as well.  Let it go. 

I'm exactly the same person I was when mmorpgs were new and revolutionary......the problem is that there aren't enough of us to make a difference.

I understand and agree completely with what you're referring to but I don't think these theme park games can be considered MMORPGs or even persistent worlds.

For example,

Ultima Online you can drop items on the ground and it remains on the ground even if you log off. Anyone could just walk by and pick it up. It is a persistent item.  You can't do that in the majority of the games out there, if any. Though Eve Online has that capability and in many respects is indeed a persistent online game.

You can build houses in Ultima Online or rather place them and they stay there, you can walk around them they are not some instanced concept that breaks all kinds of immersion and interaction.

When did we play a game that allowed us to mark and teleport to that exact location? What a fantastic concept. Developers can limit teleportation in some places but make that an exception and not the rule. Can't do that in modern games. I mean, this is what makes mages, mages.

These concepts are appealing and would draw a good deal of gamers provided they were implemented properly. I see nothing wrong with a PvE and a PvP server. PVP servers can have teleportation limitations no big deal.

Under the concept of perpetual conceptualism I really disagree that most of these online games on the market today are actually MMORPGs and are instead, 'just' online games.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Instances and AH's are the least of my concerns when it comes to the direction of MMORPG's. Its the complete and utter dumbing down of everything in the genre that concerns me. The nearly complete removal of all character development choices (Aion). The utter reliance of linear quest progression (Champions). The simplicity of gameplay that does not require the player to pay much attention at all let alone think about what they are doing. The focus on gamey features like guild level, player level, PvP rankings, etc. The entire genre is catering to a bunch of brain dead idiots.

I gotta ask...what the hell do you consider "fun"?  What do any of you people that drone on about AC, UO and EQ...what did you guys consider so "fun" about those games?

Because I honestly thought they sucked, but a big part of that probably had to do with the basement-dweller communities in those games.  I think you guys are just being nostalgic and looking at it all through rose-tinted glasses.  Honestly, I wish all of you guys blathering on about UO would just GO PLAY IT, if it's so incredible.  There, problem solved. 

Originally posted by Aganazer

Instances and AH's are the least of my concerns when it comes to the direction of MMORPG's. Its the complete and utter dumbing down of everything in the genre that concerns me. The nearly complete removal of all character development choices (Aion). The utter reliance of linear quest progression (Champions). The simplicity of gameplay that does not require the player to pay much attention at all let alone think about what they are doing. The focus on gamey features like guild level, player level, PvP rankings, etc. The entire genre is catering to a bunch of brain dead idiots.

It has progressed certainly to that as a majority with those of us from the past who have experienced a true MMORPG struggling to find our own place and to open the eyes of the millions that believe that World of Warcraft is actually an MMORPG. As great an online game as it is, it does not compare by any stretch of the imagination to Ultima Online in its prime.

Originally posted by Eben

For the last time; no one CARES about UO anymore.  Get over it.  Move on.  You're not the same person you were when MMOs were new and revolutionary, and the games are different as well.  Let it go. 

I'm sorry, this is not about Ultima Online. =)

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Aganazer

Instances and AH's are the least of my concerns when it comes to the direction of MMORPG's. Its the complete and utter dumbing down of everything in the genre that concerns me. The nearly complete removal of all character development choices (Aion). The utter reliance of linear quest progression (Champions). The simplicity of gameplay that does not require the player to pay much attention at all let alone think about what they are doing. The focus on gamey features like guild level, player level, PvP rankings, etc. The entire genre is catering to a bunch of brain dead idiots.

 

I gotta ask...what the hell do you consider "fun"?  What do any of you people that drone on about AC, UO and EQ...what did you guys consider so "fun" about those games?

Because I honestly thought they sucked, but a big part of that probably had to do with the basement-dweller communities in those games.  I think you guys are just being nostalgic and looking at it all through rose-tinted glasses. 

We could say the same thing about you. Everyone has opinions, that's why there are forums to discuss them. If everyone had the same opinion on everything, there wouldn't be a need for forums to discuss them.....

I won't insist you like my games if you don't insist I like yours.

What really scares me is that after watching Dragon Age I am starting to lose faith in Bioware's ability to make SWTOR into sometime new at all. Dragon Age has sparkling corpses that look exactly like a WoW corpse that needs to be looted. The minimap and hotbars, the generic slo-mo animations, the party-wide inventory. Bioware is making a great effort to dumb down Dragon Age to make it have more mass appeal. SWTOR will probably do the same. I am afraid that TOR will only continue the poor trend in the genre rather than save us from it. FFXIV may go in the same direction. What game coming out promises to have deep, immersive, thought provoking game mechanics that make me feel like I'm in a world rather than playing a glorified game of whack-a-mole with story elements.

I think that perception  of MMORPGs as certainly been rifted by the different kinds that have come out, but honestly, it seems that there is really only two kinds out there. The persistent and the not persistent.

At this point, WoW is immensely popular and rightly so but it is not a persistent game and therefore not an MMORPG.

The implementation of an MMORPG seems to determine whether it will be entertaining to anyone. We all know that launch is important, stability is important, because without those there is no option of fun in the game.

I see no reason why what was delivered with World of Warcraft can not be delivered in an actual persistent MMORPG. I think it is possible and I believe it can be successful.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by Eben

For the last time; no one CARES about UO anymore.  Get over it.  Move on.  You're not the same person you were when MMOs were new and revolutionary, and the games are different as well.  Let it go. 

 

I'm sorry, this is not about Ultima Online. =)

  <Mod Edit>

They are on their game's official forums, talking about them in Off-topic sides of the forum. Honestly,  I kinda agree with you, but I also agree with them, nobody actually bothered to make a MMO with UO's mechanics(nope, Darkfall isn't one). People are just asking for that, nothing more.

Originally posted by Aganazer

What really scares me is that after watching Dragon Age I am starting to lose faith in Bioware's ability to make SWTOR into sometime new at all. Dragon Age has sparkling corpses that look exactly like a WoW corpse that needs to be looted. The minimap and hotbars, the generic slo-mo animations, the party-wide inventory. Bioware is making a great effort to dumb down Dragon Age to make it have more mass appeal. SWTOR will probably do the same. I am afraid that TOR will only continue the poor trend in the genre rather than save us from it. FFXIV may go in the same direction. What game coming out promises to have deep, immersive, thought provoking game mechanics that make me feel like I'm in a world rather than playing a glorified game of whack-a-mole with story elements.

That is exactly what I'm looking for. Immersion. That bothers me that Dragon Age is turning that direction, where is the actual innovation that these games spout about so much?

I just checked out a new online game professing to be all of these new and innovative things. Adding that the game was developed for players and with players in mind, and the developers 'know' what players find fun.  It is identical to World of Warcraft.

I have hope for MMORPGs because despite the trend to cookie cut everything, games like The Witcher still exist., Or BIoShock, or let's go back in time to Planescape Torment.

The new generation of MMORPGs (if you want to call them that) are really nothing more than single player RPGs that you play online, with little or no interatction with anyone else.  During my time in WoW, AoC, War, Eve, etc. I hardly ever talked to anyone outside my guild or friend list.  Likewise, noone ever talked to me.  In the old days of UO, DAoC, and EQ1, everyone talked to everyone.  You used to find yourself doing a quest or camping monsters with other people, and you would ask them (or they ask you) to group up to get better exp.  Now if you ask someone to group that's doing the same quest in WoW, for example, you get some smart a$$, Battle.net-like, remark that I can't say here or I'd be banned hehe.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by Eben

For the last time; no one CARES about UO anymore.  Get over it.  Move on.  You're not the same person you were when MMOs were new and revolutionary, and the games are different as well.  Let it go. 

 

I'm sorry, this is not about Ultima Online. =)

 <Mod Edit>

Maybe this website is not for you then because we not only discuss thegames we are playing, but ones we've played and ones we wish would be made.   

Originally posted by Gravarg

The new generation of MMORPGs (if you want to call them that) are really nothing more than single player RPGs that you play online, with little or no interatction with anyone else.  During my time in WoW, AoC, War, Eve, etc. I hardly ever talked to anyone outside my guild or friend list.  Likewise, noone ever talked to me.  In the old days of UO, DAoC, and EQ1, everyone talked to everyone.

Isn't that the truth? There was actual real social interaction and cooperation. Not the drum beat of consistent repetition.

Originally posted by Thenarius

They are on their game's official forums, talking about them in Off-topic sides of the forum. Honestly,  I kinda agree with you, but I also agree with them, nobody actually bothered to make a MMO with UO's mechanics(nope, Darkfall isn't one). People are just asking for that, nothing more.

Who? 

WHO are asking for that?  Where are all these people?  Because all I see are a few million people playing World of Warcraft.  Where are all these people clamoring to get an updated UO-like game with those mechanics?  I don't want to seem like I'm coming down on you, but every damn day, I come here, and instead of seeing threads about *new* games, I have to wade through recent-post after recent-post of guys waxing nostalgic about a game that was released over a decade ago, saying the same tired things, over and over. 

The way I see it, you guys that want something resembling UO need to bundle together and write your own damn game.  Seriously.  Then quibble amongst yourselves over every miniscule detail and see where that gets you.  Make sure you release it when you guys agree on everything.  Then, you should be happy.

I'll be waiting here for the release of the game.  Or actually, alt-tab'd into a game...having...fun.  You remember what that was like, right?

Despite the current MMOs to choose from I am foolishly optimistic. It is inevitable before someone takes the steps to create that interactive game that will demonstrate what we are capable of.

 I don't want to seem like I'm coming down on you, but every damn day, I come here, and instead of seeing threads about *new* games, I have to wade through recent-post after recent-post of guys waxing nostalgic about a game that was released over a decade ago, saying the same tired things, over and over.

It seems like you answered your own question.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Thenarius

They are on their game's official forums, talking about them in Off-topic sides of the forum. Honestly,  I kinda agree with you, but I also agree with them, nobody actually bothered to make a MMO with UO's mechanics(nope, Darkfall isn't one). People are just asking for that, nothing more.

 

Who? 

WHO are asking for that?  Where are all these people?  Because all I see are a few million people playing World of Warcraft.  Where are all these people clamoring to get an updated UO-like game with those mechanics?  I don't want to seem like I'm coming down on you, but every damn day, I come here, and instead of seeing threads about *new* games, I have to wade through recent-post after recent-post of guys waxing nostalgic about a game that was released over a decade ago, saying the same tired things, over and over. 

The way I see it, you guys that want something resembling UO need to bundle together and write your own damn game.  Seriously.  Then quibble amongst yourselves over every miniscule detail and see where that gets you.  Make sure you release it when you guys agree on everything.  Then, you should be happy.

I'll be waiting here for the release of the game.  Or actually, alt-tab'd into a game...having...fun.  You remember what that was like, right?

If reading a forum made me as unhappy as you appear to be, I would probably stop reading that forum....

Who are you to come here on these forums and tell us what to talk about? If you don't like the discussions on this forum then maybe you should find another forum. It's not all about you....

Ultima Online was total crap. I tried it when it started and it sucked big time, i have to yet see other game as boring as UO. But i understand you might have liked it. So if UO is all that good in your opinion, why the hell are you not playing it anymore, just bore us with all that pointless whining.

I'd like to refocus the topic.

The online games we see today, in my opinion, are not MMORPGs, nor are they persistent online games like older games.

It is true that often when we discover something that works that lots of effort and time are put in to both copy and improve that concept. That's fine for a while, but the market is already saturated with these kinds of games.

I feel it is time to move on and to re-discover an actual persistent MMORPG.