Big talks, from so many of you who does not know what China is, how many provinces there are, how the society is and what life is over there.  Good armchair professors indeed.  How many of you have been to the villages? to the illegal cybercafes there?

Reviewing all the games, including WoW is normal.  Our own gov't random checks every restaurant, every public facilities, our office randomly checks 1% of every record before filing.  Is it bad to have checks?

Once in a while our fire prevention teams checks everything in a district, or a type of installation.  That is called annual stock taking, preventive checks whatever.  Why do you all panic and get your pants wet when some country announces their routine checks.  Do you know that every gov't monitors radio air waves, and internet constantly.  Just that they do not announce it.

We have yet to know what they are banning.  We do have games banned on our part of the country.  I have seen one of them unofficially banned from cyber cafes, a game written by Taiwan, wherein you play either the side of the police or the gangs, and have rape, robbery, murder, kidnap as "quests" and rewards handed over for maximum number of rapes achievement and so on.  Brutally dissecting a baby is a quest.  Do you want that game in a cybercafe next to your son's primary school.  We don't.  So our district police politely advise every cybercafe to block that game, or be prepared for extended multiple hours of daily inspection by the police, fire squad and social hygiene squads.

Talking about head in the sand, some of you guys are the best example.  Look at what some of you write

Empire ... what is an empire, and what has empire to do with freedom? Does that imply countries are freer just because it is not a multiple race empire?  Is Burma freer a country than China is as a country or empire?

Communist .. what has that to do with this issue?  Communist implies what?  And how is China running its country differently because it use the name communist as the name of the ruling party.  Does the country behave better because they use the word liberal or democractic as name of the ruling party?  Look at Africa, look at Saudi Arabia, look at UK and they way they handle the Irish throughout the 80s.  Oh yeah, life is good there.

Oh yeah democracy.  That is the best thing ever?  Just because a few white race countries runs its country that way meaning it has to be the solution for every corner of the earth?  Do we insist Martians must be democratic when we finally make contact with them?  Oh yeah have you guys read about the declassified official documents telling how CIA assisinate gov't officials in Peru?  Oh yeah, time to duck your head in the sand.  Go back to history and read up.  Democracy is known as rule of the mob in the Roman days, and is clearly manipulated by the "caeser/emperor" against the ruling families.  Democracy is nothing more than power sharing among a few (sometimes only 2) "paries".  Mobilisation and financing is the key, and the mass nothing more than tools during the election hours.

Look at your sweeping statements guys, how many of you really knows what you are writing.  Just read the biased comments from CNN, fox and suddenly you are all professional diplomats.  I applaud you.

Originally posted by lisubab

Big talks, from so many of you who does not know what China is, how many provinces there are, how the society is and what life is over there.  Good armchair professors indeed.  How many of you have been to the villages? to the illegal cybercafes there?

Reviewing all the games, including WoW is normal.  Our own gov't random checks every restaurant, every public facilities, our office randomly checks 1% of every record before filing.  Is it bad to have checks?

Once in a while our fire prevention teams checks everything in a district, or a type of installation.  That is called annual stock taking, preventive checks whatever.  Why do you all panic and get your pants wet when some country announces their routine checks.  Do you know that every gov't monitors radio air waves, and internet constantly.  Just that they do not announce it.

We have yet to know what they are banning.  We do have games banned on our part of the country.  I have seen one of them unofficially banned from cyber cafes, a game written by Taiwan, wherein you play either the side of the police or the gangs, and have rape, robbery, murder, kidnap as "quests" and rewards handed over for maximum number of rapes achievement and so on.  Brutally dissecting a baby is a quest.  Do you want that game in a cybercafe next to your son's primary school.  We don't.  So our district police politely advise every cybercafe to block that game, or be prepared for extended multiple hours of daily inspection by the police, fire squad and social hygiene squads.

Talking about head in the sand, some of you guys are the best example.  Look at what some of you write

Empire ... what is an empire, and what has empire to do with freedom? Does that imply countries are freer just because it is not a multiple race empire?  Is Burma freer a country than China is as a country or empire?

Communist .. what has that to do with this issue?  Communist implies what?  And how is China running its country differently because it use the name communist as the name of the ruling party.  Does the country behave better because they use the word liberal or democractic as name of the ruling party?  Look at Africa, look at Saudi Arabia, look at UK and they way they handle the Irish throughout the 80s.  Oh yeah, life is good there.

Oh yeah democracy.  That is the best thing ever?  Just because a few white race countries runs its country that way meaning it has to be the solution for every corner of the earth?  Do we insist Martians must be democratic when we finally make contact with them?  Oh yeah have you guys read about the declassified official documents telling how CIA assisinate gov't officials in Peru?  Oh yeah, time to duck your head in the sand.  Go back to history and read up.  Democracy is known as rule of the mob in the Roman days, and is clearly manipulated by the "caeser/emperor" against the ruling families.  Democracy is nothing more than power sharing among a few (sometimes only 2) "paries".  Mobilisation and financing is the key, and the mass nothing more than tools during the election hours.

Look at your sweeping statements guys, how many of you really knows what you are writing.  Just read the biased comments from CNN, fox and suddenly you are all professional diplomats.  I applaud you.

Leaving this whole message because I agree with what you have to say. I'm American but have lived outside of the US, seen things beyond the average American's understanding.

I know it's not all black and white, and I know each political system has its pros and cons. You have to keep in mind Americans have been brainwashed for over 50 years about how bad communism is, just as I'm sure many communist countries brainwash their citizens on the evils of capitalism.  It's a lose-lose situation, and unfortunately in the US most people just want to be right, regardless of the personal or moral expense.  The "me-first" mentality is approaching an all-time high, and I see it getting worse as our country's morality and self respect degrade continually.

Life is not what you perceive, you perceive what life is.

Originally posted by lisubab

Big talks, from so many of you who does not know what China is, how many provinces there are, how the society is and what life is over there.  Good armchair professors indeed.  How many of you have been to the villages? to the illegal cybercafes there?

Reviewing all the games, including WoW is normal.  Our own gov't random checks every restaurant, every public facilities, our office randomly checks 1% of every record before filing.  Is it bad to have checks?

Once in a while our fire prevention teams checks everything in a district, or a type of installation.  That is called annual stock taking, preventive checks whatever.  Why do you all panic and get your pants wet when some country announces their routine checks.  Do you know that every gov't monitors radio air waves, and internet constantly.  Just that they do not announce it.

We have yet to know what they are banning.  We do have games banned on our part of the country.  I have seen one of them unofficially banned from cyber cafes, a game written by Taiwan, wherein you play either the side of the police or the gangs, and have rape, robbery, murder, kidnap as "quests" and rewards handed over for maximum number of rapes achievement and so on.  Brutally dissecting a baby is a quest.  Do you want that game in a cybercafe next to your son's primary school.  We don't.  So our district police politely advise every cybercafe to block that game, or be prepared for extended multiple hours of daily inspection by the police, fire squad and social hygiene squads.

Talking about head in the sand, some of you guys are the best example.  Look at what some of you write

Empire ... what is an empire, and what has empire to do with freedom? Does that imply countries are freer just because it is not a multiple race empire?  Is Burma freer a country than China is as a country or empire?

Communist .. what has that to do with this issue?  Communist implies what?  And how is China running its country differently because it use the name communist as the name of the ruling party.  Does the country behave better because they use the word liberal or democractic as name of the ruling party?  Look at Africa, look at Saudi Arabia, look at UK and they way they handle the Irish throughout the 80s.  Oh yeah, life is good there.

Oh yeah democracy.  That is the best thing ever?  Just because a few white race countries runs its country that way meaning it has to be the solution for every corner of the earth?  Do we insist Martians must be democratic when we finally make contact with them?  Oh yeah have you guys read about the declassified official documents telling how CIA assisinate gov't officials in Peru?  Oh yeah, time to duck your head in the sand.  Go back to history and read up.  Democracy is known as rule of the mob in the Roman days, and is clearly manipulated by the "caeser/emperor" against the ruling families.  Democracy is nothing more than power sharing among a few (sometimes only 2) "paries".  Mobilisation and financing is the key, and the mass nothing more than tools during the election hours.

Look at your sweeping statements guys, how many of you really knows what you are writing.  Just read the biased comments from CNN, fox and suddenly you are all professional diplomats.  I applaud you.

I always thought the states were more of an Oligarchy.

But actually the U.S. is a "Republic". To quote an excerpt from "thisnation.com"

"The Pledge of Allegiance includes the phrase: "and to the republic for which it stands." Is the United States of America a republic? I always thought it was a democracy? What's the difference between the two?

The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths"

Originally posted by CymTyr

...

 

Leaving this whole message because I agree with what you have to say. I'm American but have lived outside of the US, seen things beyond the average American's understanding.

 

I know it's not all black and white, and I know each political system has its pros and cons. You have to keep in mind Americans have been brainwashed for over 50 years about how bad communism is, just as I'm sure many communist countries brainwash their citizens on the evils of capitalism.  It's a lose-lose situation, and unfortunately in the US most people just want to be right, regardless of the personal or moral expense.  The "me-first" mentality is approaching an all-time high, and I see it getting worse as our country's morality and self respect degrade continually.

 

Life is not what you perceive, you perceive what life is.

Thank you.

My family is from the States, and I am brought up in Asia, half of my live in China.  I have seen the best and worst of both sides, working on both sides during the cold war and after.  Yes, it is stupid to hate each other because of a label capitalism or communism.  We never know who the other person is, that we hate, we only hate him because WE CALLED HIM communist.

To Lansid: US is a republic, US is a democracy, US is capitalist ecnomy, ...  therefore US is free, US is good, US is peaceful, US is ...

Exactly as you point out, all these are just empty talks.  There are as many forms of republic polital arrangement as there are hot air balloons.  Unfortunately half of the post up there going about with these kinds of broad sweeping statement.

I agree, every community is unique, every person is unique.  A society is the chemistry of its people, and the composition of people changes every now and then.  Sweeping generalisations hide too many features that matters more than some wish to deny.

Originally posted by lisubab

Big talks, from so many of you who does not know what China is, how many provinces there are, how the society is and what life is over there.  Good armchair professors indeed.  How many of you have been to the villages? to the illegal cybercafes there?

Reviewing all the games, including WoW is normal.  Our own gov't random checks every restaurant, every public facilities, our office randomly checks 1% of every record before filing.  Is it bad to have checks?

Once in a while our fire prevention teams checks everything in a district, or a type of installation.  That is called annual stock taking, preventive checks whatever.  Why do you all panic and get your pants wet when some country announces their routine checks.  Do you know that every gov't monitors radio air waves, and internet constantly.  Just that they do not announce it.

We have yet to know what they are banning.  We do have games banned on our part of the country.  I have seen one of them unofficially banned from cyber cafes, a game written by Taiwan, wherein you play either the side of the police or the gangs, and have rape, robbery, murder, kidnap as "quests" and rewards handed over for maximum number of rapes achievement and so on.  Brutally dissecting a baby is a quest.  Do you want that game in a cybercafe next to your son's primary school.  We don't.  So our district police politely advise every cybercafe to block that game, or be prepared for extended multiple hours of daily inspection by the police, fire squad and social hygiene squads.

Talking about head in the sand, some of you guys are the best example.

I understand that coming from a more secluded and conservative society some of our opinions might bother you, but Chinas poor record in upholding human rights and civil liberties is undisputed fact. Censorship is a very offensive thing to many of us, in my country drug cartels enforce it by killing and kidnapping journalists. If something as trivial and harmless as MMOs falls prey to state control i cannot imagine what this policy will entail towards political or ideological speech.

I used the war on drugs as an example in the post that you quote. Enforcing a prohibition dictated by a foreign country (drugs are legal for us to use and carry) has resulted in the sort of violence you describe in a game becoming everyday reality to us. More people have been killed in the drug war on Mexico than in the war in Irak, amongst them a few close friends of mine. Youre welcome to express your point of view on this forums as am i, a freedom neither of us would have in China. I speak from personal experience in expressing my distaste for the publishing of art (even videogames) being subject to anyones whim.

I cannot for the life of me understand the sort of prudish morality that would ban skeletons or demons from apearing in a videogame. As much as i may loathe WOW i could hardly think it hides any sort of corrupting influence, far from it, the fact that Horde characters are available as choices speaks of a more liberal and enlightened depiction of fantasy themes. And as for your Taiwanese game (if it exists as you describe it, as it does sound like an internet myth) i will compare it to the Americans allowing white supremacist and other hate groups to rally and comunicate their thoughts. The first amendment enshrines the ideal that freedom of speech is in itself a more precious asset than whatever hateful and ignorant message others may atempt to abuse the freedom it provides to deliver. Liberal democracy depends upon this value, free speech, and it is up to parents, not the state, to educate and protect their children.

Finally, while i acknowledge we may be skimming topics which this is not a place to discuss, the banning of videogames (specially MMOs) remains a legitimate subject of discussion and concerns us as gamers. Chinese morality may influence the content of videogames as publishers seek to make them available to a larger audience. It is us who should make the call of what we find acceptable in games, not a comunist regime.

Edit; To posters in favor of multiculturalism, human rights are still considered universal. I dont agree that different peoples merit different rights. Stoning a woman to death is as wrong in Riyadh as it is in London. Forced labor is as bad for a Chinese kid as it is for an American.

Does anyone have a list of these 45 games?

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by lisubab

Big talks, from so many of you who does not know what China is, how many provinces there are, how the society is and what life is over there.  Good armchair professors indeed.  How many of you have been to the villages? to the illegal cybercafes there?

Reviewing all the games, including WoW is normal.  Our own gov't random checks every restaurant, every public facilities, our office randomly checks 1% of every record before filing.  Is it bad to have checks?

Once in a while our fire prevention teams checks everything in a district, or a type of installation.  That is called annual stock taking, preventive checks whatever.  Why do you all panic and get your pants wet when some country announces their routine checks.  Do you know that every gov't monitors radio air waves, and internet constantly.  Just that they do not announce it.

We have yet to know what they are banning.  We do have games banned on our part of the country.  I have seen one of them unofficially banned from cyber cafes, a game written by Taiwan, wherein you play either the side of the police or the gangs, and have rape, robbery, murder, kidnap as "quests" and rewards handed over for maximum number of rapes achievement and so on.  Brutally dissecting a baby is a quest.  Do you want that game in a cybercafe next to your son's primary school.  We don't.  So our district police politely advise every cybercafe to block that game, or be prepared for extended multiple hours of daily inspection by the police, fire squad and social hygiene squads.

Talking about head in the sand, some of you guys are the best example.

 

I understand that coming from a more secluded and conservative society some of our opinions might bother you, but Chinas poor record in upholding human rights and civil liberties is undisputed fact. Censorship is a very offensive thing to many of us, in my country drug cartels enforce it by killing and kidnapping journalists. If something as trivial and harmless as MMOs falls prey to state control i cannot imagine what this policy will entail towards political or ideological speech.

I used the war on drugs as an example in the post that you quote. Enforcing a prohibition dictated by a foreign country (drugs are legal for us to use and carry) has resulted in the sort of violence you describe in a game becoming everyday reality to us. More people have been killed in the drug war on Mexico than in the war in Irak = Iraq I guess!, amongst them a few close friends of mine. Youre welcome to express your point of view on this forums as am i, a freedom neither of us would have in China. I speak from personal experience in expressing my distaste for the publishing of art (even videogames) being subject to anyones whim.

I cannot for the life of me understand the sort of prudish morality that would ban skeletons or demons from apearing in a videogame. As much as i may loathe WOW i could hardly think it hides any sort of corrupting influence, far from it, the fact that Horde characters are available as choices speaks of a more liberal and enlightened depiction of fantasy themes. And as for your Taiwanese game (if it exists as you describe it, as it does sound like an internet myth) i will compare it to the Americans allowing white supremacist and other hate groups to rally and comunicate their thoughts. The first amendment enshrines the ideal that freedom of speech is in itself a more precious asset than whatever hateful and ignorant message others may atempt to abuse the freedom it provides to deliver. Liberal democracy depends upon this value, free speech, and it is up to parents, not the state, to educate and protect their children.

Finally, while i acknowledge we may be skimming topics which this is not a place to discuss, the banning of videogames (specially MMOs) remains a legitimate subject of discussion and concerns us as gamers. Chinese morality may influence the content of videogames as publishers seek to make them available to a larger audience. It is us who should make the call of what we find acceptable in games, not a comunist regime.

Edit; To posters in favor of multiculturalism, human rights are still considered universal. I dont agree that different peoples merit different rights. Stoning a woman to death is as wrong in Riyadh as it is in London. Forced labor is as bad for a Chinese kid as it is for an American.

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by lisubab ....

 

I understand that coming from a more secluded and conservative society some of our opinions might bother you, but Chinas poor record in upholding human rights and civil liberties is undisputed fact. Censorship is a very offensive thing to many of us, in my country drug cartels enforce it by killing and kidnapping journalists. If something as trivial and harmless as MMOs falls prey to state control i cannot imagine what this policy will entail towards political or ideological speech.

I used the war on drugs as an example in the post that you quote. Enforcing a prohibition dictated by a foreign country (drugs are legal for us to use and carry) has resulted in the sort of violence you describe in a game becoming everyday reality to us. More people have been killed in the drug war on Mexico than in the war in Irak, amongst them a few close friends of mine. Youre welcome to express your point of view on this forums as am i, a freedom neither of us would have in China. I speak from personal experience in expressing my distaste for the publishing of art (even videogames) being subject to anyones whim.

I cannot for the life of me understand the sort of prudish morality that would ban skeletons or demons from apearing in a videogame. As much as i may loathe WOW i could hardly think it hides any sort of corrupting influence, far from it, the fact that Horde characters are available as choices speaks of a more liberal and enlightened depiction of fantasy themes. And as for your Taiwanese game (if it exists as you describe it, as it does sound like an internet myth) i will compare it to the Americans allowing white supremacist and other hate groups to rally and comunicate their thoughts. The first amendment enshrines the ideal that freedom of speech is in itself a more precious asset than whatever hateful and ignorant message others may atempt to abuse the freedom it provides to deliver. Liberal democracy depends upon this value, free speech, and it is up to parents, not the state, to educate and protect their children.

Finally, while i acknowledge we may be skimming topics which this is not a place to discuss, the banning of videogames (specially MMOs) remains a legitimate subject of discussion and concerns us as gamers. Chinese morality may influence the content of videogames as publishers seek to make them available to a larger audience. It is us who should make the call of what we find acceptable in games, not a comunist regime.

Very rationale argument, you are showing what is life, balance.  Life is a compromise of all sides, no side will be perfectly happy.  Kudos to you.

I am have some minor difference in views to offer below for discussion, not really trying to refute you.  My ideas in no specific orders below.

There is something called culture.  While you may think that a kiss or hug is normal way of greeting, some cultures see it differently.  While you may think that skeletons means nothing, some of the rural people in china does not like it.  AND, WoW is popular in the rural.  No kidding.  In the little "town" I once lived for months on and off, there are only a couple social places, including a small town hall and an illegal cybe cafe with just a few crappy PCS, running what?  CS and WoW.  When the town elders see the undead on the character selection screen, it caused quite some unpleasnt incidences.  Surprised?  Imagine Singapore forcefully shave and trim the long hair of all inbound male tourists, under the gunpoint, and that is just 30 years ago.

Why are gov't not having a final say on what to do and what not to do.  In our culture we ban drugs and rape.  In China they ban some more.  Who says which is the right balance?  Less is always better?  I do not know.

We compare China to US or the west (say on human rights records).  Human rights in US was horrible when they start colonising the land once owned by the Red Indians, that last decades, oh maybe the Red Indians are not human beings.  China's human rights records are not good, that was really bad 20 years after they build their country.  By now, only 60 years (exactly 60 years now), they are improving, in terms of human rights.  Take this into perspective.

Human rights are not the only thing in a society.  If you are not looking into human rights, if you look into many other perspectives, including family values, chinese has that for thousands of years, and even after the brutal blow dealt upon it by the Cultural Revolution, China still has a lot more "nice and warm" aspect of family that the West cannot imagine.

China is not perfect, far from it.  I hate half of the things I see there, and love the other half.  But that is life, compromise.  That is life, me as one person with my own views and values, living and sharing the planet earth with billions of other people, each of whom as his her own views, he or she might as well hate me for as much as I hate them at times.

Peace.

Originally posted by Lansid

Originally posted by lisubab

Big talks, from so many of you who does not know what China is, how many provinces there are, how the society is and what life is over there.  Good armchair professors indeed.  How many of you have been to the villages? to the illegal cybercafes there?

Reviewing all the games, including WoW is normal.  Our own gov't random checks every restaurant, every public facilities, our office randomly checks 1% of every record before filing.  Is it bad to have checks?

Once in a while our fire prevention teams checks everything in a district, or a type of installation.  That is called annual stock taking, preventive checks whatever.  Why do you all panic and get your pants wet when some country announces their routine checks.  Do you know that every gov't monitors radio air waves, and internet constantly.  Just that they do not announce it.

We have yet to know what they are banning.  We do have games banned on our part of the country.  I have seen one of them unofficially banned from cyber cafes, a game written by Taiwan, wherein you play either the side of the police or the gangs, and have rape, robbery, murder, kidnap as "quests" and rewards handed over for maximum number of rapes achievement and so on.  Brutally dissecting a baby is a quest.  Do you want that game in a cybercafe next to your son's primary school.  We don't.  So our district police politely advise every cybercafe to block that game, or be prepared for extended multiple hours of daily inspection by the police, fire squad and social hygiene squads.

Talking about head in the sand, some of you guys are the best example.  Look at what some of you write

Empire ... what is an empire, and what has empire to do with freedom? Does that imply countries are freer just because it is not a multiple race empire?  Is Burma freer a country than China is as a country or empire?

Communist .. what has that to do with this issue?  Communist implies what?  And how is China running its country differently because it use the name communist as the name of the ruling party.  Does the country behave better because they use the word liberal or democractic as name of the ruling party?  Look at Africa, look at Saudi Arabia, look at UK and they way they handle the Irish throughout the 80s.  Oh yeah, life is good there.

Oh yeah democracy.  That is the best thing ever?  Just because a few white race countries runs its country that way meaning it has to be the solution for every corner of the earth?  Do we insist Martians must be democratic when we finally make contact with them?  Oh yeah have you guys read about the declassified official documents telling how CIA assisinate gov't officials in Peru?  Oh yeah, time to duck your head in the sand.  Go back to history and read up.  Democracy is known as rule of the mob in the Roman days, and is clearly manipulated by the "caeser/emperor" against the ruling families.  Democracy is nothing more than power sharing among a few (sometimes only 2) "paries".  Mobilisation and financing is the key, and the mass nothing more than tools during the election hours.

Look at your sweeping statements guys, how many of you really knows what you are writing.  Just read the biased comments from CNN, fox and suddenly you are all professional diplomats.  I applaud you.

I always thought the states were more of an Oligarchy.

But actually the U.S. is a "Republic". To quote an excerpt from "thisnation.com"

"The Pledge of Allegiance includes the phrase: "and to the republic for which it stands." Is the United States of America a republic? I always thought it was a democracy? What's the difference between the two?

The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths"

 

Not so. Republic as a term embodies the principle of representative government. Historically a republic could be an aristocracy (as in medieval Europe) an oligarchy (ancient Greece) or a bureaucracy (the USSR and most comunist regimes de facto, although the term is also used in a diferent sense). Democracy implies that the republican power represents the people de jure, even while most historical democracies (even today) rarely did so in the true sense.

Edit; I do realize we are both basically arguing the same point, but democracy still remains a useful term, relativism would have us do away with half the words we use...

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by lisubab ....

 

 

 

 

edited out to shorten quote

 

Very rationale argument, you are showing what is life, balance.  Life is a compromise of all sides, no side will be perfectly happy.  Kudos to you.

I am have some minor difference in views to offer below for discussion, not really trying to refute you.  My ideas in no specific orders below.

There is something called culture.  While you may think that a kiss or hug is normal way of greeting, some cultures see it differently.  While you may think that skeletons means nothing, some of the rural people in china does not like it.  AND, WoW is popular in the rural.  No kidding.  In the little "town" I once lived for months on and off, there are only a couple social places, including a small town hall and an illegal cybe cafe with just a few crappy PCS, running what?  CS and WoW.  When the town elders see the undead on the character selection screen, it caused quite some unpleasnt incidences.  Surprised?  Imagine Singapore forcefully shave and trim the long hair of all inbound male tourists, under the gunpoint, and that is just 30 years ago.

Why are gov't not having a final say on what to do and what not to do.  In our culture we ban drugs and rape.  In China they ban some more.  Who says which is the right balance?  Less is always better?  I do not know.

We compare China to US or the west (say on human rights records).  Human rights in US was horrible when they start colonising the land once owned by the Red Indians, that last decades, oh maybe the Red Indians are not human beings.  China's human rights records are not good, that was really bad 20 years after they build their country.  By now, only 60 years (exactly 60 years now), they are improving, in terms of human rights.  Take this into perspective.

Human rights are not the only thing in a society.  If you are not looking into human rights, if you look into many other perspectives, including family values, chinese has that for thousands of years, and even after the brutal blow dealt upon it by the Cultural Revolution, China still has a lot more "nice and warm" aspect of family that the West cannot imagine.

China is not perfect, far from it.  I hate half of the things I see there, and love the other half.  But that is life, compromise.  That is life, me as one person with my own views and values, living and sharing the planet earth with billions of other people, each of whom as his her own views, he or she might as well hate me for as much as I hate them at times.

Peace.

You certainly raise good points, and i thank you for your kind words. I agree that cultural relativism does pose a challenge and there are certainly many examples of abuses made in the name of universalism (im reminded of Graham Greene on Tabasco) of which the Cultural Revolution is perhaps the worst. However i do not agree that we should allow conservative views to impact those whose more "liberal" outlook would offend the comunity.

Perfect World, a chinese MMO, comes to mind. The game had a marriage system which oftentimes became the subject of controversy, despite its discussion being banned on the forums. Users of the western version, PWI, frequently requested gay marriage as an option. I should point out PWI to be itself a divission of chinese based Perfect World Entertainment which meant the comunity had access to the (chinese) developers and updates of the game in a manner similar to most p2p games. There were a few attempts to rally the comunity and even to organize gay pride parades, but the threat of the banhammer has proven to this day a more powerful argument and thus Chinese views are imposed upon a western audience.

China has a nominal comunist regime which should in theory uphold scientific views of socialism and fight superstitions. It is something of a measure of the quality of its government that they have backed away from challenging what Marx himself refered to as "the opium of the masses" and not so much a sign of tolerance from a government which has, to all practical purpose, destroyed the core values and ideas of well over 4000 years of Chinese culture and civilization.

Ignorance and poverty remain even now the sole inheritance of history for the largest part of mankind. Racism and misogyny are even today widely present in the west. Culture is something we must understand in a new light if we are to make a better world for future generations. The pyramids of Egypt remain to me more a testament of the industry and genius of the egyptian people than a monument to their pharaohs. Something along similar lines could be said of Chinas great wall. Science, a universal legacy to mankind, does not distinguish to what country it owes its contributions and is freely accesible to all who would seek knowledge and a better lot in life. So with culture, yes, weve seen milenary works destroyed by intolerance, but culture is our tool and we should use it. No part of it lacks value, no matter how small or unimportant it may seem. Even MMOs.

Fine, but if they catch people playing MMO's, they need to punish their characters, not the real persons.  Strip them of gear, cost them a level or two, or give their character 10 whacks with a rattan cane in Stormwind during prime time.

Wait, you mean to tell me I could have been buying green thru a mmo? Son of a bitch why am I always the last to know >.<