Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by mmo4life

Blizzard !

 

They  took a hip, counter culture, trendy,  big city, sexy  game genre.... and turned it into an overweight,  suburbs,  soccermom, minivan, daycare , babysitter got knocked up again ..... rerun on TV.

 

 

 

INFACT, World of Warcraft is the closest thing that could be considered a "hip" and "trendy" mmorpg since so many people have played it.  Not that it IS "hip" or "trendy" (although you dont see Ozzy Osbourne nor Jay Mohr performing at Ever Quest conventions) but it definitely is far more hip and trendy then other mmos.

 

ANYWAYS - back on topic;

My vote is Mark Jacobs.

Yes you have the McDonalds of MMO's.  Over 4 billion served...still tastes like crap.

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by mmo4life

Blizzard !

 

They  took a hip, counter culture, trendy,  big city, sexy  game genre.... and turned it into an overweight,  suburbs,  soccermom, minivan, daycare , babysitter got knocked up again ..... rerun on TV.

 

 

Im sorry to flame here but I dont think the MMORPG genre has every been "hip, counter culture, trendy, big city [WTF?] sexy".  I realize your from Taiwan so anything on that shiny box we call a computer probably seems hip but in reality this genre, which started in the US, was created by D&D fantasy nerds (nothing wrong with being a D&D nerd) who wanted to expand upon MUDs.

INFACT, World of Warcraft is the closest thing that could be considered a "hip" and "trendy" mmorpg since so many people have played it.  Not that it IS "hip" or "trendy" (although you dont see Ozzy Osbourne nor Jay Mohr performing at Ever Quest conventions) but it definitely is far more hip and trendy then other mmos.

 

ANYWAYS - back on topic;

My vote is Mark Jacobs.

I think  you are saying the same thing he was. He voted for Blizz because they took the "geek" games and made them popular, thus making them more accessible thus making them lame.

John Smedley

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

In my opinion I don't like the way he approaches his job. I've read interviews of how his thoughts on certain aspects of gameplay that interest me (with respect to TOR) as well as reading a very lengthy panel transcript of Gordon Walton's approach to game design.
 

Don't confuse me with your average mmo gamer that spouts off they don't like this or that depending on which way the wind is blowing on a given day. I use the internet to look up the histories of these guys before I speak any ills of them. The fact that he, last year in 2008, was making comments that clearly were in line with a philosphy that married up with the NGE when discussing TOR lets me know that he really didn't disapprove of the NGE and that he's now getting to put some of those elements in at the start. And Walton...heh... he might as well be working at Blizzard on WoW.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's their damn game. I won't sit here and say every game has to be made for me. That's not realistic. That said, I don't have to like their direction, speak glowingly of them at all (or any) times or buy said damn game. That's reality.

Hitler was a darn good foot soldier in World War I and then went on to do what he did in World War II. People change. Sometimes they start out good and then turn bad. *shrug* Of course, I'm not saying Vogel is Adolph (only a moron would literally draw that conclusion from my example), just illustrating that just because someone or something is good in the past doesn't mean it stays that way forever.

I understand what you're saying, I'd actually like to read where he made those connections between SWTOR and NGE. Know where I can dig that up?

Don't read me wrong he could very well single-handedly screw TOR up. Anyone on the team could, I just think as far as blemishes go the NGE is the only one to be found on his resume. The other games he worked on and SWG (until that point) were the kind of games I preferred and enjoyed.

Again IMO I will hold judgment until I see what they deliver, if its as lifeless as NGE combat/mechanics, I'll most likely share your opinion.

I'd say SOE themselves may be capable of creating a decent game, it's how they maintain them that worries me. I'd have to pick Smed out of anyone to be shunned from the genre.

Originally posted by skeaser

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by mmo4life

Blizzard !

 

They  took a hip, counter culture, trendy,  big city, sexy  game genre.... and turned it into an overweight,  suburbs,  soccermom, minivan, daycare , babysitter got knocked up again ..... rerun on TV.

 

 

Im sorry to flame here but I dont think the MMORPG genre has every been "hip, counter culture, trendy, big city [WTF?] sexy".  I realize your from Taiwan so anything on that shiny box we call a computer probably seems hip but in reality this genre, which started in the US, was created by D&D fantasy nerds (nothing wrong with being a D&D nerd) who wanted to expand upon MUDs.

INFACT, World of Warcraft is the closest thing that could be considered a "hip" and "trendy" mmorpg since so many people have played it.  Not that it IS "hip" or "trendy" (although you dont see Ozzy Osbourne nor Jay Mohr performing at Ever Quest conventions) but it definitely is far more hip and trendy then other mmos.

 

ANYWAYS - back on topic;

My vote is Mark Jacobs.

 

I think  you are saying the same thing he was. He voted for Blizz because they took the "geek" games and made them popular, thus making them more accessible thus making them lame.

I can't disagree with what you said.

SOE, John Smedley to be precise.

SOE

Richard Garriott had nothing to do with tabula rasa's death. NCsoft FIRED richard while he was in space and shut it down themselves.

So i say NCsoft is a bad company to attach to a mmo.

Originally posted by googajoob7

I have symapthy for those that attach their name to an mmo . Its a riskey buisness but for my money its Richard Garriott for the Tabula Rasa mess . My perception is he let personal ambition overtake his roll in the success or faliure of Tabuala Rasa . or maybe Gaute Godager  who compared Age of Conan as steak to Warcrafts burger yet unless than two years later he has left blaming others for the way the game has gone while he was the man in charge .

Old Gaute was right, Mcdonalds are selling a lot more than any steakhouse...

But I don't really believe anyone shouln't be given a new chanse. Some people create a lot of crap games and the suddenly make a good game.

There are however 2 people I think never should be allowed to talk to the press or even write anything on a forum: Barnett and Tasos. They can continue making games but even Smed sounds humble and wise compared to what these guys say.

Barnetts claim that WAR would steal most of Wows players is just one of the dumb things he said and Tasos way of dealing with a bad review is the worst any computer dev have been guilty of ever.

But any dev have the right to continue to make MMOs in my book, sooner or later they might get it right.

Originally posted by Konner920

Richard Garriott had nothing to do with tabula rasa's death. NCsoft FIRED richard while he was in space and shut it down themselves.

 

So i say NCsoft is a bad company to attach to a mmo.

If TR been a better game from the beginning it wouldn't have been a problem.

NC soft acted rather low but Garriot should have the experience to make a game better than TR, or at least been able to stall the release until the game actually was done.

You don't see NC soft closing down Guildwars, do you? TR just had too few players, and that was since it was buggy and unfinnished.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

I wouldve said war but atleast those guys admitted to there mistakes and are still trying to fix things, i guess SOE does take the cake.

Mythic still hasn't admitted they used a cheap and insufficient engine to build their game on. They still haven't admitted they released a year too soon.

When they do, we can talk.

For me, it's Barnett, Jacobs, Hickman, and Mythic as a company.

 SOE! 

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

In my opinion I don't like the way he approaches his job. I've read interviews of how his thoughts on certain aspects of gameplay that interest me (with respect to TOR) as well as reading a very lengthy panel transcript of Gordon Walton's approach to game design.
 

Don't confuse me with your average mmo gamer that spouts off they don't like this or that depending on which way the wind is blowing on a given day. I use the internet to look up the histories of these guys before I speak any ills of them. The fact that he, last year in 2008, was making comments that clearly were in line with a philosphy that married up with the NGE when discussing TOR lets me know that he really didn't disapprove of the NGE and that he's now getting to put some of those elements in at the start. And Walton...heh... he might as well be working at Blizzard on WoW.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's their damn game. I won't sit here and say every game has to be made for me. That's not realistic. That said, I don't have to like their direction, speak glowingly of them at all (or any) times or buy said damn game. That's reality.

Hitler was a darn good foot soldier in World War I and then went on to do what he did in World War II. People change. Sometimes they start out good and then turn bad. *shrug* Of course, I'm not saying Vogel is Adolph (only a moron would literally draw that conclusion from my example), just illustrating that just because someone or something is good in the past doesn't mean it stays that way forever.

I understand what you're saying, I'd actually like to read where he made those connections between SWTOR and NGE. Know where I can dig that up?

Don't read me wrong he could very well single-handedly screw TOR up. Anyone on the team could, I just think as far as blemishes go the NGE is the only one to be found on his resume. The other games he worked on and SWG (until that point) were the kind of games I preferred and enjoyed.

Again IMO I will hold judgment until I see what they deliver, if its as lifeless as NGE combat/mechanics, I'll most likely share your opinion.

I'd say SOE themselves may be capable of creating a decent game, it's how they maintain them that worries me. I'd have to pick Smed out of anyone to be shunned from the genre.

 

That was one I've referenced a few times. Had to dig through 36 pages of my post history to find it, lol. Massively.com has quite a few interviews with him and Walton and Olen (Olen is a Bioware original I believe, but it seems he's bought into what Vogel/Walton are preaching sum total).

Disclaimer: I'm not saying the game will "fail" as I don't resort to using that "f" word and MMOs. Time has proven there is always somebody that'll play it, lol. That said, TOR to me at this point is looking like the NGE done right and from the ground up. While I like the emphasis they are putting on story, that alone isn't enough to make me purchase it. Add to it that they has stated that a key pillar in their retention factor is for players to role new characters of different classes (because each class story is unique) puts me off. I usually roll 1, maybe 2 characters. I don't like having more than that with respect to actively playing in a game.

So yeah, The Massively interviews and there are a few other out there. Just google richard+vogel+swtor.

SOE is at the top no doubt. Smedley needs to go otherwise only thing SOE will have is Free Realms. (DC universe should have never went to them with their record for screwing games up and still having the same guy in charge who made the decision to screw up the game.)

NCSoft has hits and misses sadly I caught 2 misses Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. But they do have other great games.

I only put Blizzard up here because lets face it WoW is just a giant rip off of all other MMO's combined into one other then that they really aren't a bad company. Now they will win me over when they put original stuff in WoW and not only what other's have.

Oh lets not forget one right up there with SOE Aeria Games, Think SOE with all games F2P.

So out of the 4 I have listed in my post only 2 company's I will stay away from SOE and Aeria Games. SOE I would go back to under the terms Smedley will never be able to step foot in an SOE building and they never do anything to drastic to a game.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Never given another chance to game/post/publish a game?

My 10.000% vote goes to the morons in this thread that put up Blizzard.

These posters must have the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture and civilization.

Please stay away from gaming. So gank an old lady on the streets or something.

 

So can I call you a moron for calling other people with opinion morons? I based my opinion on what I seen in the game now I could have went further and said WoW is 90% kids grownups acting immature like kids. Go back to playing your paladin please.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Never given another chance to game/post/publish a game?

My 10.000% vote goes to the morons in this thread that put up Blizzard.

These posters must have the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture and civilization.

Please stay away from gaming. So gank an old lady on the streets or something.

 

So can I call you a moron for calling other people with opinion morons? I based my opinion on what I seen in the game now I could have went further and said WoW is 90% kids grownups acting immature like kids. Go back to playing your paladin please.

So that's these days the  lame excuse to vomit over the best PC game developper of the last 2 decades? A personal opinion.

Yep, like I said you are a represenative of the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture.

And that's indeed my opinion. :)))

Open your eyes buddy I said WoW I did not say Warcraft and Starcraft and I'm sure other people are also talking about WoW. Just because your a die hard fan of a company does not give you the right to call people morons over their opinion I will say what is on my mind and could care less if you fanboys get mad over it in fact it puts a smile on my face when fanboys get all butthurt.

I agree with him in that WOW is responsible for pretty much dumbing down MMORPGs for eternity- Its pretty bad when my 58 year old mother knows what WOW is (and even knows its "Alliance vs Horde") and it turned something once very Hardcore and niche into something casual, acessable and mainstream... So yeah, Blizz sucks. =P

BUT- Ive never accused Blizz of releasing unpolished crap, nor having bad Devs or customer service (Blizz excels in polish) just in "ruining" a beloved hobby for all eternity.

Originally posted by mmo4life

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by mmo4life

Blizzard !

 

They  took a hip, counter culture, trendy,  big city, sexy  game genre.... and turned it into an overweight,  suburbs,  soccermom, minivan, daycare , babysitter got knocked up again ..... rerun on TV.

 

 

 

INFACT, World of Warcraft is the closest thing that could be considered a "hip" and "trendy" mmorpg since so many people have played it.  Not that it IS "hip" or "trendy" (although you dont see Ozzy Osbourne nor Jay Mohr performing at Ever Quest conventions) but it definitely is far more hip and trendy then other mmos.

 

ANYWAYS - back on topic;

My vote is Mark Jacobs.

 

Yes you have the McDonalds of MMO's.  Over 4 billion served...still tastes like crap.

 

 

 

Very trendy thing to say....

But it's erroneous to infer that this means every other MMO is like some 5-star restaurant.

More correctly, if WoW is McDonald's, then every other MMO is like Captain D's.  Also fast food, but far less succesful, and tastes just as bad if not worse than McD's (but it fills a "niche" that some people like).

To the OP, I'd vote Aventurine.

I'll say John Smedley, but only because I can't think of any single person at Blizzard who is significantly more responsible than others for my disgust over World of WarCraft. Maybe Brandon Idol or William Petras, but I'm uncertain.

Anyway, conversely, I'd consider the best name to be that of Sam Johnson. That man is the only reason I'm interested in whatever that phenomenally awful concept art from Stray Bullet is for.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by Zorndorf

So that's these days the  lame excuse to vomit over the best PC game developper of the last 2 decades? A personal opinion.

Yep, like I said you are a represenative of the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture.

And that's indeed my opinion. :)))

Open your eyes buddy I said WoW I did not say Warcraft and Starcraft and I'm sure other people are also talking about WoW. Just because your a die hard fan of a company does not give you the right to call people morons over their opinion I will say what is on my mind and could care less if you fanboys get mad over it in fact it puts a smile on my face when fanboys get all butthurt.

 

I can't blame you for having the worst taste possible.

But I can blame you for posting pure and utterly crap :))

Why? Becaue Wow was and is the MOST succesful video game EVER launched in 30 years of video gaming history.

Succeful as in 1.2 BILLION dollars yearly revenu.

Yep, and you are saying Blizzard " should not be given another chance" in the thread about WHO should not be given another chance.

Laughable pathetic. Make that 100.000 years in humanoid culture ;)))

 

Just because it's successful doesn't mean it's good, it just means it's accessible to the masses. People have different tastes so what is good and what is bad is highly subjective. It's posts like yours that  make a lot of people hate WoW. Even if they thought it was a good game, why would they play when this is what they see representing the community?

On topic: I'd say anyone who has a hand in running SOE.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by Zorndorf

So that's these days the  lame excuse to vomit over the best PC game developper of the last 2 decades? A personal opinion.

Yep, like I said you are a represenative of the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture.

And that's indeed my opinion. :)))

Open your eyes buddy I said WoW I did not say Warcraft and Starcraft and I'm sure other people are also talking about WoW. Just because your a die hard fan of a company does not give you the right to call people morons over their opinion I will say what is on my mind and could care less if you fanboys get mad over it in fact it puts a smile on my face when fanboys get all butthurt.

 

I can't blame you for having the worst taste possible.

But I can blame you for posting pure and utterly crap :))

Why? Becaue Wow was and is the MOST succesful video game EVER launched in 30 years of video gaming history.

Succeful as in 1.2 BILLION dollars yearly revenu.

Yep, and you are saying Blizzard " should not be given another chance" in the thread about WHO should not be given another chance.

Laughable pathetic. Make that 100.000 years in humanoid culture ;)))

 

Seriously look at my first post again and see where I said "I would never give Blizzard another shot"? I do have a WoW Account I own Warcraft 3 I don't like Blizzard because their "biggest game in the world" is nothing but a major ripoff of other MMO's out there but you are obviously to in love with the game to realize that. It is people like you that give games a bad name by your idiotic responses over the fact that someone gives an opinion about the game and you come in with your fanboy response of "oh no you can't say that moron" "if you don't like it don't play it" blah blah blah seriously you people make me sick.

Accept peoples opinions and deal with it don't come in with an 8 year old attitude. 

Originally posted by Quailman

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by Zorndorf

So that's these days the  lame excuse to vomit over the best PC game developper of the last 2 decades? A personal opinion.

Yep, like I said you are a represenative of the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture.

And that's indeed my opinion. :)))

Open your eyes buddy I said WoW I did not say Warcraft and Starcraft and I'm sure other people are also talking about WoW. Just because your a die hard fan of a company does not give you the right to call people morons over their opinion I will say what is on my mind and could care less if you fanboys get mad over it in fact it puts a smile on my face when fanboys get all butthurt.

 

I can't blame you for having the worst taste possible.

But I can blame you for posting pure and utterly crap :))

Why? Becaue Wow was and is the MOST succesful video game EVER launched in 30 years of video gaming history.

Succeful as in 1.2 BILLION dollars yearly revenu.

Yep, and you are saying Blizzard " should not be given another chance" in the thread about WHO should not be given another chance.

Laughable pathetic. Make that 100.000 years in humanoid culture ;)))

 

 

Just because it's successful doesn't mean it's good, it just means it's accessible to the masses. People have different tastes so what is good and what is bad is highly subjective. It's posts like yours that  make a lot of people hate WoW. Even if they thought it was a good game, why would they play when this is what they see representing the community?

I agree with your statements above.  I wish both sides of the aisle would remember it applies to each.

Successful doesn't necessarily equate to "good", or "high quality".

Being less successful also doesn't equate to "good, "edgy", "high quality", or "only for those with discerning tastes and an appreciation of the finer things in life."

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Quailman

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by Zorndorf

So that's these days the  lame excuse to vomit over the best PC game developper of the last 2 decades? A personal opinion.

Yep, like I said you are a represenative of the worst taste ever in 50.000 years of human culture.

And that's indeed my opinion. :)))

Open your eyes buddy I said WoW I did not say Warcraft and Starcraft and I'm sure other people are also talking about WoW. Just because your a die hard fan of a company does not give you the right to call people morons over their opinion I will say what is on my mind and could care less if you fanboys get mad over it in fact it puts a smile on my face when fanboys get all butthurt.

 

I can't blame you for having the worst taste possible.

But I can blame you for posting pure and utterly crap :))

Why? Becaue Wow was and is the MOST succesful video game EVER launched in 30 years of video gaming history.

Succeful as in 1.2 BILLION dollars yearly revenu.

Yep, and you are saying Blizzard " should not be given another chance" in the thread about WHO should not be given another chance.

Laughable pathetic. Make that 100.000 years in humanoid culture ;)))

 

 

Just because it's successful doesn't mean it's good, it just means it's accessible to the masses. People have different tastes so what is good and what is bad is highly subjective. It's posts like yours that  make a lot of people hate WoW. Even if they thought it was a good game, why would they play when this is what they see representing the community?

 

I agree with your statements above.  I wish both sides of the aisle would remember it applies to each.

Successful doesn't necessarily equate to "good", or "high quality".

Being less successful also doesn't equate to "good, "edgy", "high quality", or "only for those with discerning tastes and an appreciation of the finer things in life."

Absolutely. To each their own. Some people get so angry over the smallest things it seems. These are games, play what you like!

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Rohn

 

I agree with your statements above.  I wish both sides of the aisle would remember it applies to each.

Successful doesn't necessarily equate to "good", or "high quality".

Being less successful also doesn't equate to "good, "edgy", "high quality", or "only for those with discerning tastes and an appreciation of the finer things in life."

 

Succesful in this industry AND society means the equivalent of GOOD and HIGH quality.

Because you are NOT getting 1.2 BILLION dollars yearly revenu out af a game if the game was NOT very good, high quality.

So here we have guys putting up "WOW", while this game was the single  most succeful game in 30 years of video game industry in a thread .... that's about WHO should NOT be given another chance".

Can't you even see how much that ridiculous personal HATE about a game has taken you of this PLANET ???

 

Dude, calm down. Can you not sense just a wee bit of sarcasm.

Oh, American Idol is one of the most succesful Television shows in the States- Society thinking its good does not make it so.

The Ford model T introduced the population of the US to motor cars, it was a decent car, it did the job. It “put America on wheels”, which is what WoW did for the gamers, putting them into a MMO.

I quite liked WoW, it had lots of issues, but what MMO does not? What they are trying to put across here, is that subscriber numbers do not equal quality of game. I would not say that, to me WoW was quite decent. But what I would say is that WoW set a template for which all games must follow or be called ‘fail’ by those who have a WoW mindset.

So back to the model T, now everyone wants to drive a car, a car which is just a souped up version of a model T. But what about those of us who like speed boats or jets? Off road racing or skate boarding anyone? That is WoW’s legacy, not poor quality, but putting MMO’s in the straight jacket of the WoW template.