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Originally posted by metalhead980 Just a "devil's advocate", but if everyone can grind to 99.9 skill or max out everything, then are you specializing or handicapping? edit: just to expand a little, I think a skill decay system or a significant time sink that is not easily circumvented would really contribute to the idea of specializing. Sure, a game like EvE allows you to train all skills to max, but there is a significant barrier to reaching max skill based on the time required. As a result, specialization is the norm. -mklinic "There's a point I think we're missing. |
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Originally posted by mklinic Just a "devil's advocate", but if everyone can grind to 99.9 skill or max out everything, then are you specializing or handicapping? edit: just to expand a little, I think a skill decay system or a significant time sink that is not easily circumvented would really contribute to the idea of specializing. Sure, a game like EvE allows you to train all skills to max, but there is a significant barrier to reaching max skill based on the time required. As a result, specialization is the norm.
Specializing, I wont be at a disadvantage if I only trained up Archery an melee while another guy has magic, archery and melee. I've already tested this out I kill people just as much as I die as an archer with decent melee skills for oh shit situations. Anyway last time I checked it does take quite some time to skill in everything, this is not something you could do in a couple months believe me. Actually I dont think we have any players in game that naturally skilled everything (by naturally I mean not macro botting).
Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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Originally posted by metalhead980
I think you touched on what I was implying with my "easily circumvented" comment. I mean, in EvE, you can train learning skills and get implants, but otherwise, you're not going to accelerate training really. These are in game mechanics meant to 'naturally' assist in training as quickly as possible. One of the main gripes (posted on these forums at least) is the ability to "cheat the system" and I think that is where the idea that someone could max out across the board comes from. Regardless, this is diverging a bit from the topic of sandbox or not and I think just about every argument that could be made has been made on that topic :P. The sandbox crowd will decide with their wallets and ultimately, if it meets each players personal standards then for them I suppose it's a sandbox. For me, I think it's done better by CCP, but I'll keep my eye on this as I think things are moving in the right direction. -mklinic "There's a point I think we're missing. |
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Originally posted by metalhead980 Why level them up? Why not level them up? You're still giving yourself a combat advantage over your opponent and so, in the long run, the only real way to play the game is to level up everything, as you would not be able to compete otherwise. http://www.havenandhearth.com |
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Originally posted by Dawnsinger Why level them up? Why not level them up? You're still giving yourself a combat advantage over your opponent and so, in the long run, the only real way to play the game is to level up everything, as you would not be able to compete otherwise.
Welcome to MMORPG's , in MMORPG'sthere is skill and char progression, if you level up skills on your char you become better at them over time. You are wrong on that part about "not able to compete". Some masters in archery will tell you otherwise and of course is not to expect that you mastered anything in Darkfall. -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- Everyone who logs into NGE destroys a bit of the SW Universe. No SWG Pre-Cu, No money to the $OE suckers , simple and fair. DON't agree to $OE 's EULA. They change the gameplay without respect your investement. "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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daarco
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
You only have to do what you think in fun in DF. You love sword + shield, archery and fire magic....you "level up that! Simply as that. And yes, you CAN skill up anything you like! But every human on earth can be a doctor as well......but they arent. Because they dont want to. I know its a really bad comparison. But you understand what i mean. |
Originally posted by daarco
In DF, you can be anything and everything, and can end up with every skill, learning everything there is to learn in the "world". In real life, yeah, you can be a doctor, that is just one profession, but try being every profession and learning everything there is to learn on the face of the Earth...real world and game world comparisons don't really work here I'm afraid. |
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Originally posted by Dawnsinger Why level them up? Why not level them up? You're still giving yourself a combat advantage over your opponent and so, in the long run, the only real way to play the game is to level up everything, as you would not be able to compete otherwise.
Why would I want to raise a skill that I don't enjoy? Because other people use magic? fuck that!!! I'm not a sheep, I do what I want with MY character and I practice practice practice. You ask the last piece of shit dwarf that I snipered to death if I could "compete", seriously do you even play this game? Man up and make a character that you enjoy playing, dont follow others like a sheep. Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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In my earlier days of EVE, it was said it would take over 6 years to max out your skills. Nowadays it would take much longer as they have added many more skills. I'm by no means saying Darkfall will have the insane variety of skills that EVE ended up with, but come on you don't think we'll eventually be getting more skills down the line. |
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Originally posted by metalhead980 You are the exception to the rule, then. The exception that will ultimately be ground under the boot of skill conglomate supremacy. Stop posting about you being special or whatever, the crowd follows the easiest path. EDIT: Cecropia, EvE is different because, even if you did max out EVERY skill, you'd still be different for your item set up, whereas in Darkfall everyone uses the same equipment. http://www.havenandhearth.com |
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Originally posted by metalhead980
Why would I want to raise a skill that I don't enjoy? Because other people use magic? fuck that!!! I'm not a sheep, I do what I want with MY character and I practice practice practice. You ask the last piece of shit dwarf that I snipered to death if I could "compete", seriously do you even play this game? Man up and make a character that you enjoy playing, dont follow others like a sheep.
It's all very manly and oh-so-very nonconformist of you. However, you do know that in games, people today rarely play for flavor. They play to win, and thus will milk every little advantage they can get. By not conforming to the rule, you WILL be behind those who do. It does not mean you won't be able to nab some hapless soul out there. But, within the game logic, you are limiting yourself, thus, gimping your character, to use the parlance or our times. And, because this game is so poorly implemented, you have to suck up this disadvantage. A good game wouldn't penalize you for that, allowing roomy builds that at the same time promote variety and lessen the disadvantage of those who like to walk the less traveled path. |
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Originally posted by StrixMaxima
Why would I want to raise a skill that I don't enjoy? Because other people use magic? fuck that!!! I'm not a sheep, I do what I want with MY character and I practice practice practice. You ask the last piece of shit dwarf that I snipered to death if I could "compete", seriously do you even play this game? Man up and make a character that you enjoy playing, dont follow others like a sheep.
It's all very manly and oh-so-very nonconformist of you. However, you do know that in games, people today rarely play for flavor. They play to win, and thus will milk every little advantage they can get. By not conforming to the rule, you WILL be behind those who do. It does not mean you won't be able to nab some hapless soul out there. But, within the game logic, you are limiting yourself, thus, gimping your character, to use the parlance or our times. And, because this game is so poorly implemented, you have to suck up this disadvantage. A good game wouldn't penalize you for that, allowing roomy builds that at the same time promote variety and lessen the disadvantage of those who like to walk the less traveled path. It takes forever to grind every freaking combat skill. If someone wants to grind every skill more power to them but believe me it is in no way a IWIN button. Think about it for a second, have you played the game? what if I strafe and aim better than you? will it really matter if you have better magic skills? What if I use my terrain better than you? what if I have more support? Honestly, you have a lot of variables to think about. I'm not gimping my character by playing my way. Because the game is more than just raising skills. Its about switch gameplay and knowing how to handle certain situations. You act as if two players fighting just stand next to each other, hard locked and cast at each other leaving it all up to skill levels. I can avoid arrows, spells and melee swings. I can kite and use terrain as an advantage. You act as if skill sets are everything. Your forgetting the most important aspect of Darkfall, the skill it takes to become a good pvper.
Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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Oh, and yes, when you can't heal yourself because you haven't levelled up the magic, that's not a major disadvantage at all? When you can't attack someone in melee because you haven't levelled it up, that's not a major disadvantage at all? When you can't do things that would allow you to turn the tide of the fight, that's not a major disadvantage at all? Do you even play this game, or do you just pretend to in your head? http://www.havenandhearth.com |
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Originally posted by Dawnsinger
Your narrow mindedness is showing. I agree with what he says and play a very similar style. Just because you don't agree with his way of doing things, doesn't mean he's not playing. |
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Originally posted by Dawnsinger
Why are you on this forum? to promote that shitty NES looking mmo? Anyone that plays DF knows you don't play just by your posts. Why don't you do yourself a favor and tell me at what lesser magic level you get Self heal and how much self heal is improved by skilling up magic? Ill wait for you to google it since you obviously never played the game. Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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Just for the record and to prevent missleading information thrown here by dishonest persons who don't hesitate to lie to you. You get a free heal spell at the first day even without having to "climb" any magic school. These is not the only way to heal yourself, for example potions and food can heal you too from the very beginning. (oops Metal has been faster). -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- Everyone who logs into NGE destroys a bit of the SW Universe. No SWG Pre-Cu, No money to the $OE suckers , simple and fair. DON't agree to $OE 's EULA. They change the gameplay without respect your investement. "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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Originally posted by DarthRaiden
You and I both know he's full of sh*t. He's giving DF such a hard time because he wants people to play that wannabe sandbox mmo that looks like it was designed for gameboy advance. I love indy games but give me a break, why would i play that pos when I could easily sub to UO and play a better 2d mmo?
Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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Originally posted by metalhead980 So, wait, you're denying that levelling lesser magic will cause your self heal to get better? In mana efficiency, casting speed and how much it heals for? Man, you're a shitty liar. ANY combat advantage is an advantage. ( Also, I'm going to guess you DO use lesser magic, so basically everything you've said before this is a lie. ) http://www.havenandhearth.com |
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Originally posted by Dawnsinger So, wait, you're denying that levelling lesser magic will cause your self heal to get better? In mana efficiency, casting speed and how much it heals for? Man, you're a shitty liar. ANY combat advantage is an advantage. ( Also, I'm going to guess you DO use lesser magic, so basically everything you've said before this is a lie. ) You need to stop, Your making yourself look like a fool. Play the game first before you troll please. Psst everyone starts with lesser magic skill lol!
Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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daarco
Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
I could finally get Greater Magic today : ) After six months of playing. I hate magic. Hows that for sandbox? |
Originally posted by metalhead980 So, everyone levels it up? Man, you're a tool, and a broken one, at that. Look at the spinning top, spin spin spin, change your opinion 'til you think you win! http://www.havenandhearth.com |
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Originally posted by metalhead980
Quite the contrary. I don't believe that skill sets are everything. However, why compare players with obvious skill differences? No amount of (insert buff here) will do you any good if people don't master time-honored tactics such as strafing. Even in Wolfenstein you had to master it. I'm talking about players with a very similar skill potential. And you know that. You can't dodge effectively several High Magic AoEs, since their splash damages the same way if it had struck you right in the nose. Everyone can kite, use terrain, etc. This is NOT a DFO feature, as much as people would like us to believe. Your enemy can also strafe your arrows. However, if he put the time to grind skills that you did not, he will have a BIG advantage over you. He'll have more mana, more Stamina, etc, etc, etc. Thus, your specialized build will fail against people with your skill level who wasted days grinding other skills like zombies. You may think this is OK. But Average Joe will get pissed by this discrepancy and: 1 - Will quit the game (and the population of the game shows that this is happening since launch), or 2 - He will suck it up and.... will grind like a zombie to narrow the gap. Option number 2 will converge, eventually, into a FPS game, where everyone is the same, draws from the same limited resource pool (albeit using it differently. Some play Colt, some play AK 47). This is a fundamental flaw in the game, and prevents Darkfall from appealing to a much broader audience. Sub-optimal build players will get frustrated and leave. I wanted a Dagger Melee character. However, I was at SUCH a disadvantage in a level playing field that I simply left the game. Why even having daggers, when the hit detection is so short and there is no appreciable difference that would justify me from using one instead of, say, a polearm? Why most of the characters in the game use Polearms? Because the game goads you into it, making other weapons suck. What was my place in a siege? Specially when all players did was chucking rockets... erm, magic bubbles at each other? Frankly: Am I lying about what I said above? Was my experience so skewed? I don't think so. And, judging by the popularity of the game today, many would agree with me. The real tragedy is: DFO had an enormous potential, before turning into a persistent deathmatch room. Shame everything was dumbed down to simply combat, combat, combat, with ranged, ranged, ranged stuff. |
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daarco
Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
But Strix, those combat concepts are just a current state! And what is the weird thing about a polearm having longer reach then a dagger? But i agree on the magic part. |
Originally posted by daarco
This thread needs to be locked and tossed. It's obvious the OP has never played the game. He's being critical of an entire system in a game without any first hand knowledge. He read somewhere that in DF you can train every skill and is running with it. Just look at his responses to me, He can't answer a simple question about self heal.
Why would I play a pathetic themepark MMO when I could enjoy a masterpiece like Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Dragon Age? |
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Originally posted by daarco Yes, they are the present state, and I think things will (have to) change in the future. But, I can only comment on what came to pass. And of course a Polearm will strike farther than a Dagger =) But, frankly, try using Daggers sometime, if you haven't. They should have some sort of advantage, such as much faster attack speed. And they don't, the difference in performance is simply too big. All I'm saying is the offensive options in this game are clearly skewed towards a very small group of weapons/spells. There should be a better balance between them, to encourage diversity. After all, a combat where 30% play Polearm, 30% play short, fast weapons, and 30% play Sword and board is a much better combat than one with 90% Polearm and 10% the rest. |
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