The last good mmorpg released was WoW and even that has been ruined by the stupid developers not knowing what a persistent world is. Every mmorpg released since has been a complete let down and a bad WoW clone. This year all we've had is crap like Champions Online which hasn't scored well in reviews and I've played it myself and didn't care to get past the boring tutorial stage. I mean why bother with a tutorial stage which you're forced to grind up the first 10 or so levels on boring repetitive quests which are there to show you how things work. I know how mmorpgs play I've played them all before. Atleast make the first part really fun so it hooks me into the game and not putting me off cause it's more of the same but with crap combat. Then we had Fallen Earth which is another low budget developer game and it shows. I mean the UI is nasty, the animations are horrible and so are the character models. They have this linear tutorial and then throw you out into this world and it's like worst opening to a game as it's veyr misleading. If you're going to have a big open world then do a tutorial in it and don't make me think the game is something it ain't. Also why do these low budget developers always fall short on the UI, character models and animations? They're the first things I see and if they arn't right then I ain't likely to go much further.

Then Aion came along and well it's more of the same only Asian this time which means you have to be into tits everywhere wwith men looking like women, stupid armour designs and that gay stance everyones in with their shoulders behind their head. Frigging Asian games always have really cheesy stories about some rock to save the world and Aion is no different. It looks really generic aswel and I just couldn't get into the game. Doesn't help when it feels esactly like WoW and I keep saying WoW already did it far better than anyone else will do so do something different!

In previous years we had a lackluster lord of the rings title which I knew it would suck when they changed the title from middle earth online to what it is today. It didn't get good reviews and suffers from lack of PVP, horrible combat, animations, character models, armour and boring classes. We had Age of Conan which I had fun with for awhile but then you get fedup of the constant loading every 30 seconds between zones and going in dungeons and houses. I mean if you're making it an MMO then leave the loading screens out of it because it doesn't feel like an online world then. I also could never find a group in AoC which meant I had to miss most content so I quit instead. We also had WAR which was a WoW clone that focused on PVP, only WoW did everything better including PVP so what was the point?

2003 was such an amazing year with EVE, SWG and PS which were all innovative and different. I loved playing each one until the developers took them in directions I didn't enjoy and by 2005 I wasn't playing any of them. PS and SWG for SOE ruining them and EVE Online because I didn't enjoy all the taking cruise missles off of smaller ships. I mean I woulda thought Cruisers were the perfect ship to launch CRUISE missles.

2004 we had WoW which was the breakthrough MMO that go everyone into the genre. I thought we'd only see things go up from there but instead it has been complete bollox since. Oh and we had EQ2 which I had fun with in beta when there was only 1 server, you could always get a group and I wasn't paying to beta test it for them like after launch. I mean in beta they would clone each zone on the same server so you'd have like 6 versions of one zone so you'd always get a group. If there wasn't many people in that zone then they'd only be one version of it. This was great but when launched there was like 20 servers splitting everyone up and now you can never find a group.

Anyways the future doesn't look much better all we've got is SWTOR to look forward to really and if that sucks THEN I GIVE UP!

Originally posted by Varny

Anyways the future doesn't look much better all we've got is SWTOR to look forward to really and if that sucks THEN I GIVE UP!

Psh, like one hater once said, "Square-Enix values being different over being right."

FFXIV will be different. And you know what that means in today's MMO business? Success.

SW:TOR is the oppositel, by the way.

Final Fantasy has men what look like women with emo spikey hair and stupid races like cat people. The stories in Final Fantasy games have always been really cheesy and with the worst voice acting I've ever heard. I've seen videos of Final Fantasy 14 and it looks more of the same to me and I hate the world design that felt super restrictive. I mean had tons of invisible walls and looked really hard to navigate to where you could and couldn't go.

Tbh not interested in Asian games and not because I'm racist but because their style of games and their culture doesn't appeal to me.

All I can say is that it's awesome playing an MMO that came out in 2003, has had it's game engine completely updated at least twice, 11 free expansions (12th is out Dec 1st), has seen subsciber numbers grow every year since launch, has seen the huge game area triple in size and is still all on one server.

Sucks to be those other guys.

PS Varny, if you left EvE because you lost your Cruise Caracal... did you know that the Stealth Bombers now use torpedoes? 530 DPS @ 60Km, and they can use a covops cloak. You should come back man, One balancing nerf aint the end of a game. Seriously, the ships and races are very well balanced now, and Dominion is gonna make things even better (the AFs finally get their 4th bonus and the new Pirate faction ships are made of awesome.)

The only thing that hasn't changed since 2004 is the mind numbing rants about the state of MMO's.

Originally posted by Varny

Final Fantasy has men what look like women with emo spikey hair and stupid races like cat people. The stories in Final Fantasy games have always been really cheesy and with the worst voice acting I've ever heard. I've seen videos of Final Fantasy 14 and it looks more of the same to me and I hate the world design that felt super restrictive. I mean had tons of invisible walls and looked really hard to navigate to where you could and couldn't go.

Tbh not interested in Asian games and not because I'm racist but because their style of games and their culture doesn't appeal to me.

I don't really care about your taste. The MMO genre is going somewhere with FFXIV, you like it or not.

The thing WoW did wrong & it's predecessors such as EQ & AO got right was that the early games tried to give you an alternate "world" to play in, Blizzard somehow lost sight of that & stuck to what it knew in building games, it saw EQ as a flawed game instead of a less gamey world.

So in my opinion WoW was more game than world, & the EQ/AOs were more worlds than games....two takes on MMO building but each from wholly other ends of the design perspective.

That's why WoW was so much more successful, there are more gamers than "worlders".

When "games" in the MMO genre try to encompass both perspectives & both try to build a believable alternate reality & give it game values they will have moved forward instead at pulling at opposite ends of the rope.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally posted by Varny
Wall of text rant by WoW fanboi.

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Really, you lost me when you said every MMO was a WoW clone. Drove that point harder when you said WoW was groundbreaking. WoW was pretty much AC2 with more content and less original classes.
 

Alright, i'v ready 1000's of Posts... and I have to finaly say something.. WOW is not the best.. and is not the great innovation into MMO's as everyone Gives it credit for. I'v played MMO's since Ultima Online. Thats been.... 14 years since i started there.. THAT was a damn Innovating Release... The first Everquest... I give credit to that as well.. WOW is really a Conglomeration of a already exceedingly popular gamming company and a already exceedingly well known and followed titled put online.. Now Blizzard makes great games.. always has. but WOW really did nothing that wasent already in another MMO somewere befor its time. WOW didnt do anything better BLIZZARD did things better for their Game.. for instance... Really low graphics requirments.. great idea... very user friendly and pretty much idiot proof... not to mention... Really the most highgly advertized GAME not just MMO i'v ever seen... all credit to Blizzard and thier Huge cash pool NOT their Great and unbeleavably wonderful game.. Cmon.. Name something Mr. T has Advertised for? AND minnie me... AND Ozzy... the list goes on.. 

What my little rant is saying.. yes wow lotta people Congrats Blizzard.. but WOW is just a "copy" of mmo's befor its time.. so all this "Just a wow clone!" comments are really just rubbish, if wow does it so good and so much better why are you posting here and playing other mmos rather then playing wow? 

And you forgot DDO release in 2006, Nothing like a wow clone.. totaly innovated and was very very sucessful untell Turbine released LORT at the peek of thier cash crop income like idiots... Most MMO sucess has to do with the company... a Company compeating with itself for subscriptions from its own games just is NOT good marketing... The Folks at Turbine are real stupid for that move.. 

I think endgame is the main problem.  Most new release just dont' have much endgame content.

I'm actually quite happy that all the MMO-purists are about to go extinct. Hurray for future development! Great day for gaming.

Originally posted by laokoko

I think endgame is the main problem.  Most new release just dont' have much endgame content.

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 Yeah. like Conan Lord Fun game BORNING END GAME.. same thing for WAR... Great game.. wich WAS NOTHING like wow.. And boring endgame.. i love pvp but damn... gimmie somethin new other then Killing my fellow mmo players endlessly for hours.... gimmie a raid a new item ! something to aspire for! a new level? new mount? hell a hat? please! lol... Developers forget that no matter how hard the game.. slow the leveling SOMEONE will be max level befor they release new content.. well Cept for Linage 2... anyone Max level on that one yet? lol i played it all through Beta... and 6 months after got to lvl 36... i pouted cryed and looked at the lvl 70 cap and threw it out the window! lol

Best Endgame content ever in a game award goes to Guildwars.. where the entire game is layed out for Endgame-max lvl characters LOVE IT but uhh free play led the way for.. REALLY REALLY poor player base....

As far as the genre going nowhere, I disagree.  The key reason?  Just for once, a game has aimed very very high, and is actually looking like it might deliver something new, engaging, and lasting.  Darkfall is well worth a try; but if you like PvE, maybe wait until the next "expansion".  If you demand "polish", then give it at least 3 months more (but seriously, it's fun already, even if some of the animations ... are ... well yes, needs polish!). 

If you can get past the Forumfall trolls, and accept that for the first day you will be dead quite a lot, Darkfall is really taking the MMO genre to where it always should have got to after UO.  It lacks polish, content and adequate in-game GM support, but they have a very good game already. 

They are very actively working on the content, and have made radical improvements in their player-Dev communication approach (which formerly was quite soundly and fairly ridiculed), and are delivering on their promises (finally).  Sure they had a poor start, but they are getting there, and the next content "expansion" (patching in more stuff that really ought to have been there at launch) looks excellent.  After that is likely to come a lot more polishing, and if player numbers continue to strengthen they will be able to afford more in-game support to weed out cheats and the few remaining hackers (they have been insta banning them when they catch them - more GMs would mean the risk of ban from hacking would go up even more).  

It's a game that dared to dream, and ... albeit after a very rocky start where the game was listing badly, the ship is still afloat and on a much more even keel, and it is underway.  If they stay on course, this game really will become truly amazing - for it's innovation and gameplay.  Who doesn't want high fantasy with 19th Cenutry sailing ships?!  Coastal cities ... naval bombardment, ... pirates who really do want to steal your ship (and can if they win)!

Think it's safe to say the MMO genre has gone nowhere since 2004 for a very small minority of gamers like myself.

Sorry the moment when you said "stupid developers" was the moment this topic made no sense at all.

Do I agree with the direction this genre is going, No I dislike the way it's handled, but I do not consider those games that do not atract me to be crap as they are simply games I dislike, a crap game would be a game noone would want to play, all those games you mentioned are played and enjoyed by gamers, perhaps not by me or you but still......, and we stil have this fact that we on forums are just a very tiny representation of the whole gaming community. Obviously thinking other wise would make people make topics like this.

Please speak your mind but do so in a honost way or in a constructive way, would be recieved much better.

The ideas in Darkfall are great, but the execution of said ideas is poor and archaic. I just have no desire to play the game.

Originally posted by Varny

Final Fantasy has men what look like women with emo spikey hair and stupid races like cat people. The stories in Final Fantasy games have always been really cheesy and with the worst voice acting I've ever heard. I've seen videos of Final Fantasy 14 and it looks more of the same to me and I hate the world design that felt super restrictive. I mean had tons of invisible walls and looked really hard to navigate to where you could and couldn't go.

Tbh not interested in Asian games and not because I'm racist but because their style of games and their culture doesn't appeal to me.

The art style is amazing.  Same guy who did Vagrant Story and FF XII.  I don't exactly see where the emo aspect is though.  FF XI has a few styles for males where they look like rugged old guys, which I was myself.  And you've obviously never done the missions for XI.  Best MMO series of quests/missions to date.  You only seem to be talking about the single player FFs...which is retarded, seeing as how we're talking about MMOs here.

Also, the videos that were shown at Gamescom is early alpha build, not even 50% at the time.  Of course the demo was going to be restrictive.  They purposely set up that invisible wall so people couldn't explore into the unstable/imcompleted parts.  Learn to actually observe instead of making half assed assumptions and spewing them as fact.

By the sounds of it, you're just burned out on MMOs in general.  Let me guess, nowadays you just spend more and more time alone.  You're also probably thinking Blizzards next MMO will be a god send.  It won't.  It'll be drastically different from WoW, and people will either hate it or love it.  Blizzard knows that as well and that's the reason why they're planning on continuing WoW for at least another 2-3 years.

And it's laughable people still base their decision to play a game around graphics.  Yeah, we all play games for the graphics /rollseyes. 

 *Edit

I wouldn't worry about the genre too much.  This current gen of MMOs have mainly been WoW clones, which isn't a surprise.  It's going back to the good old second gen MMOs days by the looks of it though.  You know, where developers were actually keen on making "their" game and not some knock off.

Namely, SW:ToR, FFXIV, TERA and Blizzards unannounced MMO, which will be drastically different from WoW.

Flute - Darkfall isn't really going to have a PVE expansion, is it?  That'd be a terrible idea: carving out your niche of PVP maniacs and then forsaking them by creating content for a group of players (PVErs) who will never enjoy the game.

darkdevel - Heh, I may disagree with people who call WAR a WOW Clone, but I disagree even stronger with the idea that it's "nothing" like WOW.

Skuz - Encompassing both perspectives often isn't possible.  Many of the mechanics within MMORPGs are in tension: as the mechanic offers more fun Gameplay it becomes less of a World (and vice-versa.)  One example being travel time: "world" players travel time long enough to enhance the immersion of the world, while "game" players showed up to play a game, not to watch a character play a run animation forever (because there aren't interesting gameplay decisions to be made while traveling.)

In reply to topic - Personally I think the genre has gone plenty of places since 2004.  It's just unfortunate that the majority of those places aren't interesting to me.

I still feel the failure is largely one of combat mechanics.  WOW's combat was accessible, yet quite deep.  You had very strongly presented abilities, and a sizable number of them.

And yet the players in the Champions forum laughed when I mentioned the fact that for ~15 levels while leveling killing mobs boils down to spamming 1 button repeatedly.   Combat so shallow it made WAR's combat look deep!  Aion at least hit it close, with rotations that varied per-mob on my Sorc.  Sadly the kick-me-in-the-shins-constantly camera system ruined it (as did world PVP and dubious class balancing.)

Basically if combat is your game's primary activity, it better be better than WOW's.  And for the majority of games, that's not true.

I actually feelt the exact same thing. Playing Aion atm, and ok, its a decent hack n slash kinda thing.  But im starting to get bored. Combat have actually become more doll. Maybe it was stupid rolling a spellcaster> i dont even have the occasionel critical strikes to break the monotony. Basicly, killing mobs is more boring then ever and yet it dominate the game.

What happened with the good direction Funcom tryed to take combat?

I would be just fine with a remake of DAoC pre- TOA.

New graphics and content, and ad a few features, no need to re-invent the wheel.

Same with every other Game genre.

FPS

RTS

RPG

SIM

Originally posted by Zhqrxt

I actually feelt the exact same thing. Playing Aion atm, and ok, its a decent hack n slash kinda thing.  But im starting to get bored. Combat have actually become more doll. Maybe it was stupid rolling a spellcaster> i dont even have the occasionel critical strikes to break the monotony. Basicly, killing mobs is more boring then ever and yet it dominate the game.

What happened with the good direction Funcom tryed to take combat?

This is why I'm excited about FF XIV.

- No auto attack.  Every action is decided by you.

- Skills and abilities for both the left and right hand of you character.  Not exactly sure what they mean here, as they didn't go into specifics, but it's probably skills and abilities being restricted to main and off hands.

- There also seems to be a "accuracy/power" type bar for you actions.  From what I've read, the more power you want to put into your attacks, the less accurate you'll be and vice versa.  Some kinda energy/stamina stat is also supposed to be tied in. 

- They, as in the S-E team working on XIV, seem to be hinting that fighting multiple monsters will be the norm.

So basically...XIV combat sounds much more immersive then XI's.  Which is great, because that's the only major thing I had against XI.

So what g ames are good? i hate WoW.. its crap i don't know any any one can get into it...

i played linage 2 for a fair amount of time but that gets boring too i find my self playing random free games just to bypass my time... untill something new comes along....

i really miss the game i played back Legend of Mir 2, which was such a great game.....

=-/

OP is right. MMOs didnt progress at all in past few years even tho its the most popular genre these days.

I don't even play WoW I just call it the last great MMO because it did alot of amazing things no other mmorpg did or has done today and it's still the only one that blends PVE and PVP well. The problem is the wave of clones that came after it and the stuff Blizzard has done to WoW that has ruined it.