At least they are making games.

Personally I have alot of fun in those fail game you named... for a couple of month.

Originally posted by Aercus

"Hi! I'm driving a Toyota Corolla. It's the most sold car of the last 30 years, and therefore the best car. All other cars fail."  

Uh, well, all things considered - The Corolla might well BE the best car in the last 30 years.

I agree that it doesn't mean all other cars fail, though.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Aercus

"Hi! I'm driving a Toyota Corolla. It's the most sold car of the last 30 years, and therefore the best car. All other cars fail."  

Uh, well, all things considered - The Corolla might well BE the best car in the last 30 years.

I agree that it doesn't mean all other cars fail, though.

That is exactly the point. It's the most selling car, therefore hugely successful. Is it the best car? No.

McDonalds is the most sucessful chain of restaurants. Is it the best food? No.

HP sells the most PC's. Does HP have the best PC's? No.

More energy is produced by coal than by wind mills. Is coal the best form of energy? No.

I know, seperating quantity from quality is a difficult thing, but please don't confuse the two. We all know Wow is, by far, the most selling MMO in history. Is it the best MMO?

Originally posted by Aercus

 

That is exactly the point. It's the most selling car, therefore hugely successful. Is it the best car? No.

Yes. That's MY point.

McDonalds is the most sucessful chain of restaurants. Is it the best food? No.

Debatable. I hate McDonald's, but millions love it. For a variety of reasons.

HP sells the most PC's. Does HP have the best PC's? No.

More energy is produced by coal than by wind mills. Is coal the best form of energy? No.

You're really getting off track with this one. Best in what way?

I know, seperating quantity from quality is a difficult thing, but please don't confuse the two. We all know Wow is, by far, the most selling MMO in history. Is it the best MMO?

Yes. Not for me, personally, but yeah. All things considered, it is.

aion is a huge failure

Originally posted by rr2real

aion is a huge failure

Yup, 400k preorders in the US, and who knows how many players in asia, definitely points to failure. lol

The biggest problem with most of todays MMOs is community IMO. People do not stick around games long enough to form them for starters. Everyone races to end game and sets sail for the next grind, like playing single player games. Completely ignoring what makes these games unique "community building". This is why EVE steadily grows and grows they force you into community building so to speak.

I know what you are going to say, "but, all the games out now suck". Yeah they do if you ignore the fact that they are multi-player games. You (random troll) flame people day in and day out with "how can you like that game" How do you play it!?!?!". Is it perhaps because the average user who sticks with a game, meets people and forms bonds with them? That imo is where most so called "fanbois" come from ( their perspective anyway). They have embedded themselves within a games community. To them that is the game, insult it (the game) you may be unknowingly insulting all their friends as well.

just my 2 cents..

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Aercus

 

That is exactly the point. It's the most selling car, therefore hugely successful. Is it the best car? No.

Yes. That's MY point.

McDonalds is the most sucessful chain of restaurants. Is it the best food? No.

Debatable. I hate McDonald's, but millions love it. For a variety of reasons.

HP sells the most PC's. Does HP have the best PC's? No.

More energy is produced by coal than by wind mills. Is coal the best form of energy? No.

You're really getting off track with this one. Best in what way?

I know, seperating quantity from quality is a difficult thing, but please don't confuse the two. We all know Wow is, by far, the most selling MMO in history. Is it the best MMO?

Yes. Not for me, personally, but yeah. All things considered, it is.

So, Danielle Steele and John Grisham are the greatest Authors in history, right?  Well, they sold the most books, so it must be!

Or, do they write for the greatest common denominator, pleasing the ignorant masses.

You decide. 

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Yup, not since the success of WOW has there been a MMO who has captured the hearts and excitement of the players. We been saturated with mediocrate which translates into major fail. In 2007 we had Lotro. Lotro won best MMO that year only because nothing else was out and Turbine took advantge of that. It was a false hope with just average gameplay and a boring world to play in. In 2008 we had the most epic fail year of all time, both AOC and Warhammer flopped big time. So much hope, so much hype and it all went down the tubes in a hurry.

Smaller mmos such as Champions Online and Fallen Earth tried to revive some mmo success but I'm afraid those just didn't quite cut the mustard either. Cryptic botched it up big time when they introduced their first patch and it hasn't been the same since, not to mention the microtransactions+monthly fees isn't exactly appealing either. Fallen Earth isn't that bad but I just don't see it being that kind of mmo where people are getting that excited about it. Then there was Aion. Now Aion has soome good points to it like the polish and beautifult world to play in but NCsoft forgot to make it interesting and fun to play not to mention it just copied what others had done before and just made it look prettier.The amount of gold farmers and bots in this game is horrendous despite the latest massive bans they been doing, its still infested. Server queue problems and too much lag for players is a major issue. It baffles me how NCsoft can get the Asian releases (which has over 2 mill players) correct but not the NA/EU players which has around 400k players. Yup, I'm still pondering that as we speak.

There might be some hope to the mmo genre eventually but I'm afraid the wait is way too long before we see that mmo success again. The MMO "Fail-Train" keeps rolling as mmo players desperately spend their money in order to keep hope alive.
 

Completely true. Also See signature. Good point dude.

Originally posted by madeux

So, Danielle Steele and John Grisham are the greatest Authors in history, right?  Well, they sold the most books, so it must be!

Or, do they write for the greatest common denominator, pleasing the ignorant masses.

You decide. 

Well, Corollas and WoW work. That means a lot, when the competitors are Kia, Ford, AoC, and Warhammer.

Aside from actually functioning properly, there is no objective standard to rate such things other than popularity.

Who is to say who the best writers are - millions of readers, or a few literary critics?

Compared to WoW, most MMOs would be short stories with missing chapters and tons of typoes, which take a third edition to finally be readable.

Back in the day of UO, AC, EQ, and AO It was hard enough just to decide which game to play, then SWG, DOaC, FFXI, CoH, GW, L2 came out and it was enough to make your head spin.. but now, I can't seem to find anything that holds my interest for over a month (VG came close), except maybe for EvE, but space is really not my idea of adventure.  I wouldn't say all those MMOs failed, since they all have their fanbase, but yea they failed from my perspective, and it really does seem like everything since WoW has been developed without a passion for playing, as a money making product first and a game second.

Originally posted by heremypet

Back in the day of UO, AC, EQ, and AO It was hard enough just to decide which game to play, then SWG, DOaC, FFXI, CoH, GW, L2 came out and it was enough to make your head spin.. but now, I can't seem to find anything that holds my interest for over a month (VG came close), except maybe for EvE, but space is really not my idea of adventure.  I wouldn't say all those MMOs failed, since they all have their fanbase, but yea they failed from my perspective, and it really does seem like everything since WoW has been developed without a passion for playing, as a money making product first and a game second.

Second -if we are lucky. Usually the devs' ego stroking  is second. Actual fun for the players is third.

The reason is that accountants and marketing weasels are designing these games as much actual creative people are.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by rr2real

aion is a huge failure

 

Yup, 400k preorders in the US, and who knows how many players in asia, definitely points to failure. lol

you play the britney spears of MMOs LOL! how does that make you feel

If your concept of a MMO success is that everyone loves the game and we all leave what we are currently playing to join the new release then every MMO since WoW has failed.

If on the other hand your concept of MMO success is that the game achieves a profitable return for its investment, there are few who are not a success.

There has been no fail train, but there had been a Hype-Train, which as lead so many to get of at the MMO train stop too early. You can see them looking around at train station Aion, Fallen Earth and Champions Online right now. Wondering why their station is not the best MMO every created. These same passengers are now looking at Secret World, Global Agenda and the like and getting ready to board the Hype-Train once more.

The new next best thing is usually no better than your current best thing so play your current MMO and stop the day dreaming.

The train has derailed already. Most of you don't realize it and play in the wrecked wagons pretending it is all fine while some few souls put back on the tracks clunky non-working contraptions made from savaged parts that slightly remind the past times while they painfully push it for a few meters.

Originally posted by heremypet

Back in the day of UO, AC, EQ, and AO It was hard enough just to decide which game to play, then SWG, DOaC, FFXI, CoH, GW, L2 came out and it was enough to make your head spin.. but now, I can't seem to find anything that holds my interest for over a month (VG came close), except maybe for EvE, but space is really not my idea of adventure.  I wouldn't say all those MMOs failed, since they all have their fanbase, but yea they failed from my perspective, and it really does seem like everything since WoW has been developed without a passion for playing, as a money making product first and a game second.

+1

That era of MMOs are considered the second gen of MMOs.  This was the age where every MMO was almost completely distinctive from each other.   It's the time where I was obsessed with MMOs in general and played all of them, and then settled for SWG, PSO and FFXI.  Course I had to ditch SWG after the CU.... T.T

The current gen of MMOs is nothing but WoW and the clones.  After WAR and AoC, I knew for the next couple years it'll all be the same garbage coming out.  But now...the next gen MMOs will start rolling out in the next year =D  Namely, SW:ToR, FFXIV, TERA and yes, even DBZ.  Each of these up and coming MMOs finally have this feeling and look that doesn't scream "WoW clone #20!".  So stoked for next year, and I'm using the rest of the year to finally finish off my pile of unplayed console games =p

Originally posted by altairzq

The train has derailed already. Most of you don't realize it and play in the wrecked wagons pretending it is all fine while some few souls put back on the tracks clunky non-working contraptions made from savaged parts that slightly remind the past times while they painfully push it for a few meters.

Wow. Upped for greatness of the post.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by altairzq

The train has derailed already. Most of you don't realize it and play in the wrecked wagons pretending it is all fine while some few souls put back on the tracks clunky non-working contraptions made from savaged parts that slightly remind the past times while they painfully push it for a few meters.

 

Wow. Upped for greatness of the post.

 

QFT

I play EVE and have no idea what the OP is talking about.

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by altairzq

The train has derailed already. Most of you don't realize it and play in the wrecked wagons pretending it is all fine while some few souls put back on the tracks clunky non-working contraptions made from savaged parts that slightly remind the past times while they painfully push it for a few meters.

 

Wow. Upped for greatness of the post.

 

 

QFT

Second that.  If it was not for Eve, the genre would be a complete loss right now.  I know some of you are enjoying Aion right now, but wait till you get to end game, there isn't any and NCSoft has never been successful in removing bots or spammers.

This quote also hit the nail on the head:  "the market has been completely flooded with low-budget generic titles now."

Originally posted by aleos

Originally posted by zymurgeist

The only fail is your post. Things are what they are and your opinions don't determine what is or isn't fail.

POW POW

agree, opinion... fallen earth seems to be doing fine for the way the advertised it ...

LOTR is doing fine,,,

ect.. pretty boring post ....

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Yup, not since the success of WOW has there been a MMO who has captured the hearts and excitement of the players. We been saturated with mediocrate which translates into major fail. In 2007 we had Lotro. Lotro won best MMO that year only because nothing else was out and Turbine took advantge of that. It was a false hope with just average gameplay and a boring world to play in. 
 

LotR was and still is a good game. 

The industry seems to have fallen victim to WOWs success. Not to bash WOW it is a good game for what it is.  However when you look at MMO's released before WOW they were developed for significantly less and were making enough money with a couple of hundred thousand players to keep the servers up and keep on developing content.

The problem now is the population of people who played MMO's before WOW is less than 1 million and of those were spread out over 3 or 4 games that had pretty different playstyles.  The population of people who currently play WOW is around the 13 million mark.

The problem then has become if you make a game that shares some similarities to WOW everyone cries WOW clone.  When it becomes apparent said game has bugs (evan Blizzard can't release an expansion/game/patch completly bug free) that becomes the excuse alot were looking for to return to WOW.  This leaves the game with a population numbering in 100,000 mark and the devs/publishers unable to recoup the huge investment in dev costs.

If you try another tact and make a game that shares very little with WOW everyone cries that the game doesn't make sence and is poorly designed because stuff doesn't work exactly how it does in WOW.  Throw in the fact this game also has the newly released set of bugs and stability issues that evan Blizzard can't avoid and you get a double whammy of lose.  This again leaves behind a population numbering around 100,000 and again the devs/publisher has not recovered the huge development costs. 

Fact of the matter I also believe that when Blizzard launches it's second MMO that will also fall victim to WOW and will have populations similar to AOC and WAR.  Because it will have only slightly less bugs than WOW did at launch and that will be enough for the WOW crowd to abandon the new game and go back to WOW.  The difference between Blizzards new MMO and AoC and WAR will be the number of initial box sales and thats about it.

Funnily enough the OP also mentions Fallen Earth.  This game I believe is how a subscription based game can actually make it in the present MMO enviroment.  The devs have evan said if they get 100,000 players playing the game they will be successful beyond their wildest expectations heck they evan threw out the idea that if they acheive 50,000 that number of subs will be more than enough to keep on going.  Heck they seem to have done everything in their power to distract people from the product right down to officially launching to the public the same day that Aion did.  They don't have a store box presence they seem to have pretty much just distributed boxes to places that had pre ordered and thats about it.  Only now are we really seeing adverts for the game on MMORPG.  They seem to be attempting to fly under everyones radar making only a token effort to market until they get their game right and hunt down all those niggling bugs that seem to upset the former/current WOW player.  These guys are realistic thinkers aiming small and developing for the customers they have now rather than customers they may or may not ever see.  Sure they will most likely never see 1 million subs but I dare say that Fallen Earth will still be around in 5 years and going strong for those who choose to go along for the ride and see something different.