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The overall agrro range of mobs, their lack of pack behaviours and their perception of the surroundings is simply horrible. Is it that expensive server side to set their maximum aggro range for 100 meters, make them actually attack you, help each other and react for action around them ? I don't even talk about running to cover or trying to flank you, approach behind the cover, that's still a single player games domain. Like for a game where PvE quests are the main way of game progression they overlooked one of the most important features. Another thing is laughable damage of mobs on similar level like you, you do 30 damage they 7...It is not easy PvE, it is boring and not challenging at all. I would love to see improvement to PvE so you would actually be bothered to cooperate and play tactical: ambush, set up traps, use terrain to your advantage.
Being a hero who kicks the ass of multiple enemies while eating a sandwich completely kills the thrill of fight for survival in a post-apocalyptic game. The hero theme got boring in MMO genre ages ago. I want to feel something again while playing a MMORPG: constant fear about unknown future and scent of death. I want to think: do I have enough food, water, ammunition to get through this wilderness full of mutants and mad cultists to nearest civilized outpost ? Why the hell I haven't listened to that ranger and despite his warnings I went alone so deep in that cursed place ! I want to be forced to constantly calculate my chances against monsters, environment and all other odds, look for resources, supplies in ruins and count every bullet I have left. I want to worry about radiation and how it affects my body, that I run low on anti-rad medicines and to nearest settlement is so far... If I fail to notice a group of mutants sneaking up on me I want to piss my pants from fear. I want to consider options: should I help my friend ( I need somebody to cover my back ) and share with him a last med-kit or leave him so I can escape from incoming mutants. They are so close ! I can hear their howls ! When eventually I ( we ? ) will reach a safe haven of civilization and the gate will shut behind me I want to cry from joy: I MADE IT.
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10/09/09 1:37:41 PM#2
You don't wanna know how much times I died so far in pve ... I fully agree with the a.i needing a lot of improvement though. Even only a larger agro range and grouped mobs would make a huge difference. My guess is that this will be adressed since it seems to be the main gripe of almost everyone. Also more, larger and varied monsters / mobs would be great additions. In the meanwhile ... a few tips for a bigger challenge: - fight mobs ABOVE your level - go rifles to get the -60% melee def pennalty - go full crafter meaning you invested a lot of point in intelligence and perception rather than endurance and coord I promise you, pve will be a whole lot more exciting (and you'll get to know the floorplans of LifeNet chambers by heart) ;-) p.s. what level are you now? *temporarily sigless* |
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10/09/09 1:41:15 PM#3
Ahh....Terrance LifeNet complex, how I hate thee... |
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Originally posted by DarkPony None, I waited patiently for some videos and that's PvE experience which puts me off the most. Lack of persistent content is another thing, but that's a problem of 99 % of MMOs on the market. I suppose I will wait for EU server and give it a try if the game will improve.
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10/09/09 1:47:24 PM#5
Originally posted by Blindchance None
Ah ... *temporarily sigless* |
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10/09/09 1:53:22 PM#6
Originally posted by DarkPony
Ah ...
Wow...just...wow. "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..." |
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10/09/09 2:12:38 PM#7
Originally posted by Blindchance
LOL |
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10/09/09 2:26:41 PM#8
Sooooo.....your bitching and you haven't even played the game? You assume your opinion matters to others more than a pile of steaming manure why? I assume you are a Democrat or member of the Nobel decision committee. “Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.”The Iron Code" |
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10/09/09 2:31:05 PM#9
it's very important to tell us this before you go raging on a game you haven't played yet. so i don't have to waste my time reading something useless. <iframe src="http://www.wowarmory.com/character-model-embed.xml?r=Malorne&cn=Ashkin&rhtml=true" scrolling="no" height="588" width="321" frameborder="0"></iframe> |
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10/09/09 2:32:36 PM#10
Originally posted by DarkPony
Ah ...
Classic! I've never played either and I think this game is AAAHWSUM!! I'm writing a player's guide. |
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10/09/09 2:57:32 PM#11
"Being a hero who kicks the ass of multiple enemies while eating a sandwich completely kills the thrill of fight for survival in a post-apocalyptic game." You score Barney Fife on the cop scale. Eating a sandwich while gunning down multiplle bad guys is the only way Dirty Harry would ever do it. You'll never be an Enforcer maybe you should try the blade dancers. "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law |
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Slambone
 Novice Member
Joined: 8/05/09
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset" |
10/09/09 3:32:05 PM#12
I was in S2 the other day and came up on a bunch of yellow neutral mobs. They didn't seem overly excited about my presence until i put a bullet into one of them. That brought two others into combat. One of these two joined in using sonic powers that blinded me, so that I accidentally shot a 4th mob. I'm not sure how many actually were on me by the time I died, all I know is that it was a victory for the AI and a lesson learned for me.
How long have you played....none. Bwahaaahaaa. This thread is full of win! Trevor Goodchild - Traveler - Crafing/Pistols |
Originally posted by Slambone I just hope they noticed you from longer range then 10 meters. To all you interested, do I really need play that game to judge AI behaviour ? I don't know about you but I can read FE forums and watch videos of actual gameplay with understanding. If you have any argument agaist that I am more then happy to read it, I like the concept of the game, orginal ( like for a MMO ) story and world, but you spend most of your time PvEing in this game. The pve fun factor is important here and it looks extremely boring and unchallenging: AI issues: Agrro range, group behaviour, situational awareness and general perception of the surroundings. Damage: on one of the clips the guy fights with mobs on comparable level, he does 30 damage, mobs 7 damage. His health hardly hardly moves. Do I have to say anything else ? As I said in the original post I hope that's the AI flaws which will be fixed, PvE needs to be more challenging and promote grouping if you want to fight against more then 2-3 opponents. If you shoot in a camp /group proximity they all should run into the action, you don't stand when somebody slaughters your friends. Seriously so many games miss to use challenging pve experience to build community links, that it is not even funny. Damn "I want to one man army" stigma.
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10/09/09 6:44:24 PM#14
Initial PvE is way to easy and will agree with that but as you get higher it does get more interesting I can assure you of that. The mob AI needs some work I agree. Aggro range is funky. |
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10/09/09 6:50:39 PM#15
Originally posted by parrotpholk
At what level? Grouping needed, or is it rare? ESS O ESS. O ESS O. OR ESS? Bah, fuck it, just call 911. |
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10/09/09 6:57:38 PM#16
Bah, wtf. ESS O ESS. O ESS O. OR ESS? Bah, fuck it, just call 911. |
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10/09/09 6:58:35 PM#17
Originally posted by Slambone
LMAO slambone, you made my day, i totally pictured that scene in my head(cheeks hurt sooo much) |
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Raltar
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/28/06
Asking for help on the internet is like asking a swarm of bees why they are stinging you! |
10/09/09 10:24:44 PM#18
I agree with the OP. He may not have played the game but he is 100% right. There is no reason why you can't watch the gameplay videos and clearly see all the shortcomings of the AI in this game. He was smart to do the research to find out if this game delivers the experience he is looking for before buying. And since the developers weren't kind enough to offer any kind of free trial what choice does he have but to look at gameplay videos and ask for opinions on forums? He did the right thing if you ask me. OP, the gameplay videos you have seen are pretty accurate. Some mobs aggro from very far away at random, but most ignore you until you are right on top of them or start attacking them. Even once they attack their tactics are simplistic to say the least. And the reason the guy in the video "barely had his health bar move" is because there are a TON of buffs you can use in this game which increase your health regeneration rate so that as soon as you take damage it heals within just a few seconds. This doesn't mean the combat is totally boring or that the game is bad. I actually like it a lot. But virtually everyone who has played their game will admit that the AI needs a huge amount of improvement to make it more realistic and less obnoxious. Some of the same people who have argued with you in this thread did the same thing to me in another thread and you know what? I think they just like to argue and don't care which side of the arguement they are on! Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain |
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10/09/09 10:51:51 PM#19
Originally posted by GreenWidow
You don't find it funny that everyone reading knew exactly what he was talking about? Including you. I think it's pretty cute, and can imagine hearing a collective sigh of relief as everyone realizes they don't have to talk about it now. |
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blakavar
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/22/06
Troll says, "I'm a troll bitches. Dance!" |
10/09/09 11:01:37 PM#20
Originally posted by Slambone
Haha I can see this in my mind. I had a Shiva's Chosen run up to me and nail me with a sonic blast and my screen starting going crazy with the shaking. The chosen calmly stepped back while my poor hapless toon was writhing in agony and unloaded a double barrel shotgun point blank in my face. I was still thinking what the hell happened when I respawned in the lifenet tube. Mutants and distance= good Mutants in melee= bad |
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10/09/09 11:08:15 PM#21
The OP does know that S1 is training mode zone, with mob behaviour going from brain dead to DUH whats that, further north of s1 and increasing, you will start to see mobs diving to fire, and some pack behaviourer. Most videos are from S1 try and source some from S2, that said ,yes work needs to be done to the mobs, however there is some confusion over the actions of S1 mobs, consider S1 a huge newbie training zone, s2 mobs will hand you your ass if you dont observe everything around you. On top of that the mutations in mobs dont start to kick in till s2, you dont get blinded, set on fire and Dotted hardly ever in s1.
Currently Subbed EVE,MO,and Vanguard. |
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10/09/09 11:15:05 PM#22
Originally posted by DarkPony
Ah ...
EPIC!!!
And yes Blind(how is that for irony?) you do need to play a game before you trash the AI. |
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10/10/09 12:04:52 AM#23
So you're not even playing the game, LOL.
Personally I am fine with the aggro circle. One thing I hated about LOTRO was the feeling I had to fight for every inch of ground. It really ruined the exploration value, atleast for me. |
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Just who fail to accept fact you don't need to play a game to judge the AI from widely available videos. It looks so funny when you walk casually to a mob up to 10 meters range, aim at his head with double barrel shotgun, blow his head off and at last he starts to actually do something in the middle of that process. In the mean time his friend standing another few meters away from you turns his back and proceeds with patrolling ( sic !). A guy walks in a cinema building, close in to an aggressive red mob. He is like 8 meters away, but mob still completely ignores him, despite fact a guy is an enemy, holds a gun aimed at him and is the front of his face... A guy walk in a ruined city, in a camp full of elite soldiers. He starts to pick them one by one from his rifle, while rest completely ignore wild and loud shooting from FEW meters away. All these examples are taken from videos provided by actual players, all of them except one were made after the launch. I haven't seen AI fixes in the patches notes since then. Sure I could overlooked it, but by from AI behaviour in the videos provided after the launch I seriously doubt it. Read the comments of players on the official forums, their opinions are same like mine: pve is to easy, AI needs a lot of work. Now stop living in denial, picking on "OMG he criticize the game but he haven't even played it LOL", because it just shows how childish your arguments are. My arguments are based on facts: general players opinions and videos sources, yours are nothing else then ad hominem argument. I am not here to have a laugh, I just point out what I don't like and what in fact stops me from buying this game except lack of an EU server and a real end game. |
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Originally posted by Terranah For me it completely destroys immersion and atmosphere of a post-apocalyptic world where you fight for survival, count every bullet and food ration. It makes pve unchallenging and boring.
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