I agree with OP. When I first started playing at launch it took my 30 playing days to level to 60, then my second toon was 17 days to 60. my latest (a 80 warlock) took me 7 playing days from 1-80. You also have to keep in mind that with the expansions and patches the amount of exp it takes to level has been reduced and also the amount of exp you gain from quests and mobs have been adjusted too.

You just made my point Mizzoufan...Thnx! :D

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by templarga

I find the leveling fun and interesting.

 

Ok, I really have to ask, what in the world(of warcraft) did you find "fun and interesting" about having to do 500000000 "Kill X of Y" quests? WoW's end game was somewhat entertaining, if not simply for it's addictive nature, but it's leveling was akin to chewing broken glass.

I never said the quests were fun and interesting..and there are some and I am still finding new ones, even after 4 level 80s. I find the experience of leveling (right now) fun and interesting because A) its been forever since I leveled a character on the Alliance side; and B) I am deliberately taking my time and seeking out stuff thats not well known or hidden; getting screenshots of some cool stuff and also just enjoying myself until the expansion comes.

Originally posted by Gavelayde

I got to admit...I didn't reach level 60 before the first expantion came out...but since then I have reached level 70 several times and level 80 a few times... Since then I've started a few more characters...and everytime it get's so much easier to level!  Since Wrath, I can start a toon and reach lvl 20 in my sleep...(taking a break for an occasional smoke... if I did smoke!...)

I care less how easy the leveling is, what I care about is end-game raiding, community, PvP, etc etc etc.

Sure you might say back in the days of 40man raids were just to frustrating to organize....but at least they were also challenging, personally I miss encounters like Razorgore from BWL when it came to raiding or open world PvP before even battlegrounds.

Originally posted by Jackio81

Sure you might say back in the days of 40man raids were just to frustrating to organize....but at least they were also challenging, personally I miss encounters like Razorgore from BWL when it came to raiding or open world PvP before even battlegrounds.

 

 

Pre-BC in my opinion is the best version also. There was nothing better than getting 40 people together (even tho at times it was a bitch) and stomping down MC, BWL, Naxx, or Temple of Ahn'Qiraj. Ahh the memories!

If you want to have some fun for leveling...roll a cross faction for the same server you are. It was much needed "new" thing for me...was a bit bored for levelling as a horde. And it's challenging  if you don't swap money with someone...a start with zero golden dollars ^^.

Other than that...yeah leveling is boring as hell and too easy for me now...so i don't reroll anymore untill cat or some other game that has challenge for a solo play...or for even group play.

Trade chat was the new Barrens chat the last time I logged in..... "anal first aid"... god help us *turns trade chat off*

I think that 1-60 was a lot of fun at launch if you ran all the instances in your level range. I remember my first level 60 character taking 20 days of time played, but on the flip side my most recent 80 took just over 5 days of time played. A lot of it is knowing the most efficient path threw the game, playing on rested experience, and then having access to the optimal equipment for the spec you want to level with... in game friends that help you out by running you through instances makes a big difference.

I enjoyed Wrath for a while.. until I had to go out of town, and then came back to a schedule that didn't allow for much playing time. The thought of logging into to do dailies, sitting around Dalaran waiting on raids to start, and all the other nonsense is just a complete turn off now that I have free time again at night. I honestly think that WoW trains your brain to run on auto pilot because of how simple and repetitive common tasks are in that game. The community is the other thing that I will not miss about WoW.
 

WOW is just as easy and just as hard as you want it.

In end game it is obvious. People I know in RL who complain about "easy" are the ones NOT doing any serious challenges.

I catch them all the time on the official forums with their pants down. Easy, since some whiners post with their avatars with linked ... achievements. Their anwser is always amusing ("but this is may alt"), yep I bet with 5K achievement points passed :)).

Guys complaining about PvP/PVE without any serious back-up.

Listen guys: Blizzard introduced the hard modes and it will go even further !

In patch 3.3 and CAT you will be able to swith to hard modes of a boss in the instances itself.

Better play better if you still want better things in the future.

------------

---As for the leveling part: try doing the red quests in Icecrown with your level 77. Oh I faceroll with my Paladin all that content with my Udluar and 240+ gear on. But with my leveling alt? Forget it.

It is extremely fun: Doing A few challeging quests 3 levels above in the red and then go to AV for 30 minutes.

And in the PvP zones of LW (out of the siege hours) and Grzilly Hills I play "Darkfall" all the time with my rogue....:)))

People who don't see these challenges are mostly the ones complaining for a "sandbox". They don't even see the playing opportunities in a free of choice theme parc, let alone they would find anything in a sandbox.

Hasn't WoW always been easy and casual? Isn't that one of the major reasons it got so popular?

I think in general WoW is synonymous with easy in the MMORPG genre.

Originally posted by Yamota

Hasn't WoW always been easy and casual? Isn't that one of the major reasons it got so popular?

I think in general WoW is synonymous with easy in the MMORPG genre.

So whay can only 0.1%of the RAiding community  take out the hardest mod bosses.

Any comments :)))

My 1 year old son just started playing wow..hes loving it...owning everyone in pvp..he just smashes butons random, but the game plays itself..dont need a grown up human behind the keyboard..its that easy...

I still remember in vanilla wow..when you atualy had to play the game.

Originally posted by Pocahinha

My 1 year old son just started playing wow..hes loving it...owning everyone in pvp..he just smashes butons random, but the game plays itself..dont need a grown up human behind the keyboard..its that easy...

 

I still remember in vanilla wow..when you atualy had to play the game.

You do know WOW is the only mmorpg on ESPN and it is the ONLY mmorpg with a ladder based PvP rating system.

But probably you wouldn't even know what a ladder based system means.

I am glad you have a talented 1 year old son. I guess he's gifted through the genes of his mother...

You're leaving an infant play with your PC? I wouldn't leave anyone but an adult I trust come anywhere near my machine.

Baby drool inside the keyboard and sticky fingers form baby poop come in mind ...

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Yamota

Hasn't WoW always been easy and casual? Isn't that one of the major reasons it got so popular?

I think in general WoW is synonymous with easy in the MMORPG genre.

 

So whay can only 0.1%of the RAiding community  take out the hardest mod bosses.

Any comments :)))

If the core of gameplay was 'hard modes' then I'd agree, but we both know its not.  When making a judgment, I believe you have to knock out both extremes, and what is left in this case can be summed up as mind numbingly easy.

When someone asks me if playing the bass guitar is hard, I tell them no. I wouldn't go out and find some Victor Wooten song to throw in their face as a point of reference because it is very far off the spectrum.  The vast majority of music in pop culture can be played by an intermediate player, but then there are those hard pieces that only the 0.1% can play... though that doesn't change the answer to the initial question. Sorry I tend to relate a lot of thing to music, but you see where I'm going.

Hard modes change the difficulty of a few encounters that a lot of people could probably care less about.  It doesn't change the difficulty of the core of the game when you exit the raid instance, and that's what people are talking about here.

After reading this: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?feature=3589&game=15

I think i've finally made peace with the game being easy and casual. That's developer focus. Something i wish more devs would have.

Specifically one line here is important: "It seems that while early MMOs were much more hardcore, companies are starting to see that the game has to fit your lifestyle, not having your lifestyle revolve around the game."

If you want true hardcore, WoW is not your game (anymore). You'll just have to live with hardmodes.

Then those people do it the "lazy" way.
 

I came to think of what you said just yesterday. I finally came wih my alt doing those daily quests from the Airship in Icecrown.

Used to be there with my Ulduar/240+ itemed out Paladin.

Now I was up there with my newly dinged level 77 green/blue warlock. A complete different experience.

Fighting multiple mobs lvl 80 in that cave was NOT "easy".

Then I thought... I pity those developpers: they have to make content for everyone.

-------------------------

If I need fast food I assemble 6 boars in Howling Fjord and kill them. If I go to Icecrown I am being killed at level 77 by multiple extremely agroing mobs in a cave.

And btw: as an alternate in leveling most people play Bg's now.

So you search the challenge .... OR you avoid it and just kill anything 2 levels below and post on a forum.  easy.

Originally posted by ebonfire

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Yamota

Hasn't WoW always been easy and casual? Isn't that one of the major reasons it got so popular?

I think in general WoW is synonymous with easy in the MMORPG genre.

 

So whay can only 0.1%of the RAiding community  take out the hardest mod bosses.

Any comments :)))

If the core of gameplay was 'hard modes' then I'd agree, but we both know its not.  When making a judgment, I believe you have to knock out both extremes, and what is left in this case can be summed up as mind numbingly easy.

When someone asks me if playing the bass guitar is hard, I tell them no. I wouldn't go out and find some Victor Wooten song to throw in their face as a point of reference because it is very far off the spectrum.  The vast majority of music in pop culture can be played by an intermediate player, but then there are those hard pieces that only the 0.1% can play... though that doesn't change the answer to the initial question. Sorry I tend to relate a lot of thing to music, but you see where I'm going.

Hard modes change the difficulty of a few encounters that a lot of people could probably care less about.  It doesn't change the difficulty of the core of the game when you exit the raid instance, and that's what people are talking about here.

<<<<

 

This is a great post and very well written.   Here are my two thoughts.    First, at what point did we decide that 'games' have to be hard, rather than just fun.     For the average gameplay, it might not be hard, but it is very fun, and that is why it continues to grow and hold people.     I would like to know your definition of 'hard'.    Is it having to spend 10 minutes doing a death run?   The bosses in even heroic dungeons are very very sophisticated compared to other games.  In AOC, probably 75% of all boss fights have NO special abilities at all.  The way they do prorgression is just increase the bosses hps and damage output.   The vast majority of WOW boss fights have interesting twists (even heroics) that players must adapt to.  Is it killing an add before it reaches the boss?  Is it switching to portals during the fight?   Walk yourself through WOW's heroic dungeons as see how many are pure tank/spank fights.   Considering almost every other game is purely tank/spank, that makes WOW much harder.    Or do you consider 'hard' just buffing a bosses damage and hps to the point where you lose 50% of the time.

To me, making a game fun and 'hard' at the same time is pretty difficult for developers to do.   Look at the things most games do to make their game 'hardcore'.    Big death penalities that force you to repeat an action (replace gear, run for 10 mins, regain experience).  Or how about making the game 'hard' like Aion did... where you just grind and grind to level, doing nothing but 'kill x' quests that don't even have 'flavor text' attached to them.   

The fact is, in WOW, a good player can find a wide range of things to do that have an increased dificulty.  Yes, you can play the 'simple' version.  But even doing somthing like running heroics is not  a faceroll activity.

In retrospect the day WoW Started to decline in terms of gameplay was the day they brought in faster leveling .