Originally posted by mrroboto40

Originally posted by woghd

STO will come out on top in this not because it has two kinds of combat, but because it has SERIOUS story depth. The game will have a "genesis" system which can create planets on the fly. We are not talking about boring cookie-cutter planets that all look similar, the kind that get boring after a while. They have added so many paramiters into their system that game content will NEVER become repetitous. This isn't going to be just another MMORPG, like the coming shooter with the Starwars label. With two solid combat systems and a nearly infinite buffet of unique content, I think we are looking at the future of gaming here. WoW has had it's day. Just my opinion.

 

How can you say STO will have more "serious" story depth when your comparing it to a game where every single bit of the story matters. Do you really see yourself reading why your collecting 10 pieces of borg ship? Obvious answer is no, however, in a game where everything you choose to say or do has an affect on your characters progression, every little bit of information provided to you would be meticulously considered to make sure your making the right choice for your character, therefore immersing and creating very deep story depth. Sure, it has a genesis system, what does that mean? Does it choose a planet shape at random, and then terrain type at random, and then climate type at random? You call that depth? Go look at every single planet released thus far in SWTOR and tell me those are "cookie-cutter" or that they look even REMOTELY the same. Also, who's to say that SWTOR will not have space combat, after all a staple of the Star Wars IP is space, and combat in space, if it isn't in at launch, it will most likely be one of the first things added in an expansion or content patch.

Look at the company your dealing with, it's Cryptic ffs. What have they done that is innovative apart from dress up a Comic MMO with WoW features? Just looking at screenshots alone, I know I wont ever play STO, it's such a vast and important IP, and you hand it to guys who add to much purple to everything!

 

What this really boils down to is the development style and polish both companies will put in to their game, and right now, I have my bet on BioWare, because they know Star Wars first of all, and they have released some kick-ass games in the past.

Where you look at Cryptic, and all the experience they have is in Superhero MMO's.

No offense but your being just as ridiculous as the person you are quoting. There is no sense in overstating or understating the qualities of either game. The parts I highlighted above are just your opinion or totally fictional as we just don't know yet. Both games have an equal chance of being successful and can coexist as they are totally different experiences from the way they are being marketed. The only thing it comes down to really is personal choice. We'll either like ToR or we'll like STO and if we are very lucky we'll like both. I personally plan on trying both games but which game will be better is anybody's guess at this point. They are using such drastically differing design concepts that a direct comparison is very unfair to both games. If they stick to those design concepts both games will be something new, refreshing and neither will be anything like WoW. I see this as a good thing and you should too.

Bren

STO will be the better game, TOR will be as popular as WoW but it wont be as good or deep as STO.

IT's the same old shit really. The simple games have mass appeal while the more satisfying games are niche.

Originally posted by metalhead980

IT's the same old shit really.

Like?

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by metalhead980

IT's the same old shit really.

Like?

Same old shit as in a simple game designed for mass appeal will be more popular than a more complex game even if the complex game is better.

Look at a watered down game like WoW, its fucking pathetic compared to the feature set of a game like Eve. Yet due to setting adn "Learning Cliff" Wow has 6+ million in NA/Euro while Eve has 300-350k on its one server.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by metalhead980

IT's the same old shit really.

Like?

Same old shit as in a simple game designed for mass appeal will be more popular than a more complex game even if the complex game is better.

Look at a watered down game like WoW, its fucking pathetic compared to the feature set of a game like Eve. Yet due to setting adn "Learning Cliff" Wow has 6+ million in NA/Euro while Eve has 300-350k on its one server.

Heh, so you're making comparisons to games like Eve? I think ToR may stay true to the last three words of MMORPG. It may not offer a massive amount of complexity, and I don't think it will have a "wide" appeal. I think the number of subs could be high, but not amazing high. To me Depth can equal Complexity. They both do the same thing in the end. Complexity will sort out the imbeciles with no attention span. A Deep Story will do the same. If anything this shoud be a game you should be pushing for. It's trying something new and exciting for themepark players. It's giving them a world that feels alive. Sandbox games do the same, but the players define it. Where ToRs living feel will come from characters changed by your actions through out the game. Compared to games like WoW or even Aion this game is in it's own catagory.

Watered down can mean many things, if you are saying accessibility, what's wrong with that? You have to understand, not everybody is the same. I can understand the joys of complexity. But some people just wanna jump in and start having fun. I can respect both sides. I don't mean this to be insulting, but I think you're being a bit narrow minded. You watched the videos and seen "class based heroic basic UI combat" right? Yet you have no clue about the way story operates, how/if space will be done, and exactly how complex it may be. In the end this is a bad comparison. Both will have appeal. Both will do something new for the genre, and neither is the same old shit.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by metalhead980

IT's the same old shit really.

Like?

Same old shit as in a simple game designed for mass appeal will be more popular than a more complex game even if the complex game is better.

Look at a watered down game like WoW, its fucking pathetic compared to the feature set of a game like Eve. Yet due to setting adn "Learning Cliff" Wow has 6+ million in NA/Euro while Eve has 300-350k on its one server.

Heh, so you're making comparisons to games like Eve?

I only use Eve as an example of how a game that is innovating the genre asn has a learning curve is basically unknown due to the playerbase only going for easier games.

I think ToR may stay true to the last three words of MMORPG. It may not offer a massive amount of complexity, and I don't think it will have a "wide" appeal. I think the number of subs could be high, but not amazing high.

Bioware has a intalled playerbase of near five million people that will buy anything with a bioware logo on it. It's going to be big atleast for the first month.

To me Depth can equal Complexity. They both do the same thing in the end. Complexity will sort out the imbeciles with no attention span. A Deep Story will do the same. If anything this shoud be a game you should be pushing for. It's trying something new and exciting for themepark players. It's giving them a world that feels alive. Sandbox games do the same, but the players define it. Where ToRs living feel will come from characters changed by your actions through out the game. Compared to games like WoW or even Aion this game is in it's own catagory.

I like what Bioware is doing with the pve in its game. It's a game im looking forward to.

Watered down can mean many things, if you are saying accessibility, what's wrong with that?

Accessible could be good and Bad. A game with a great tutorial that helps new players learn a game is great but when you look at a game like WoW that basically holds you like a child until max level it could be negative.

 

You have to understand, not everybody is the same. I can understand the joys of complexity. But some people just wanna jump in and start having fun. I can respect both sides. I don't mean this to be insulting, but I think you're being a bit narrow minded. You watched the videos and seen "class based heroic basic UI combat" right? Yet you have no clue about the way story operates, how/if space will be done, and exactly how complex it may be. In the end this is a bad comparison. Both will have appeal. Both will do something new for the genre, and neither is the same old shit.

I think im being misunderstood My post was saying its the same old shit due to the way the Masses pick games over another not the actual gameplay.  How would I know how the games actually played to say its the same old shit on that level? All I know is what i've read on under the hood mechanics. STO has mroe of a Skill system Space/ground meta game while TOR is more of a pve centric game with a bit more attention to detal on that feature than other MMOs before it. So the entire thread is meaningless since TOR is more of a game for everyone while STO will be for core fans of the series/movies and players wanting a more complex type of experience. nothing wrong with either of them.

I agree that they're a bad comparison.

Originally posted by metalhead980

I think im being misunderstood My post was saying its the same old shit due to the way the Masses pick games over another not the actual gameplay.  How would I know how the games actually played to say its the same old shit on that level? All I know is what i've read on under the hood mechanics. STO has mroe of a Skill system Space/ground meta game while TOR is more of a pve centric game with a bit more attention to detal on that feature than other MMOs before it. So the entire thread is meaningless since TOR is more of a game for everyone while STO will be for core fans of the series/movies and players wanting a more complex type of experience. nothing wrong with either of them.

I agree that they're a bad comparison.

Ah ok. I have seen you in a few threads talk about your dislike for most themeparks so I figured you was implying it here. My bad.

But yeah, odds are ToR will be the bigger of the two. That actually doesn't mean a damn thing though. SWTOR could suck, have a ton of people and STO could be a dream come true with a few thousand. Same scenario is already playing out.  My hopes for ToR go beyond just the story. I want to see them merge story with PvP. That's high hopes I'll admit, but they're being very quiet about PvP which leads me to believe one of two. It's going to suck. Or it's something special. ToR has a lot going for it.  Still a lot of unanswered questions to. Besides PvP my next concern would be about RMT. For me gear based RMTs are a deal breaker. This is something I suspect STO might have, look at CO.

STO will launch first, but TOR will sell far more boxes and most likely have far more subs.

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by metalhead980

I think im being misunderstood My post was saying its the same old shit due to the way the Masses pick games over another not the actual gameplay.  How would I know how the games actually played to say its the same old shit on that level? All I know is what i've read on under the hood mechanics. STO has mroe of a Skill system Space/ground meta game while TOR is more of a pve centric game with a bit more attention to detal on that feature than other MMOs before it. So the entire thread is meaningless since TOR is more of a game for everyone while STO will be for core fans of the series/movies and players wanting a more complex type of experience. nothing wrong with either of them.

I agree that they're a bad comparison.

 

Ah ok. I have seen you in a few threads talk about your dislike for most themeparks so I figured you was implying it here. My bad.

No worries, I wouldn't be such a hater of themeparks if the story lines were on par with sp rpgs. Something TOR is promising so I look forward to it.

If your going to lead me around a game the story better be fucking fantastic and not just dumb kill or collection quests.

I don't give a damn about combat or whether it takes place on the ground with small fleshy things or in space with big metallic things. So, with that out of the way: 

Both Star Wars and Star Trek are terrible science-fiction, the former more of a high-fantasy-in-space and the latter better termed pseudoscience-fiction (psi-fi?). If I hadn't grown sentimentally attached to them through my childhood, I'd hate them today. But I have, so I don't.

Anyway, I prefer Star Trek as a setting, since it at least tries, or pretends to try, to be science-fiction. I'll take bad pseudoscience over outright magic, frankly.

I also prefer STO for its visuals. TOR's style is too cartoonish and its graphics too primitive for my tastes.

Yet from experience, I have much more respect for BioWare as a developer, and I also far prefer the design of TOR, thus far, being what appears to be a long-overdue step forward into actual multiplayer RPG gameplay. Imagine that.

Star Trek Online
Setting: 5
Design: 7
Visuals: 7

The Old Republic
Setting: 4
Design: 10
Visuals: 4

Decisions, decisions....

I'm suprised this topic hasn't come up sooner. I've been a fan of both IPs since I was a little kid so I'm not going to try and say which is better. Both games look interesting and different enough from each other that they should have appeal to the fans of them. So far (and this is subject to change)it looks like STO will have an advantage for those that like to spend time in space as I have seen very little from TOR in this regard.Both will have a story with the TOR looking to have an advantage here seeing what they have done so far. STO will have the "captain's log" and mission briefings along with a skill based system(no levels) so I think for some it will just come down to which world you like playing in the most. There have been numerous Star Wars games over the years and I think the market might be starting to get oversaturated. Just how many more times will people be interested in playing a jedi? As of late, Star Trek games have been few and far in between and with the latest success of the movie I think there will be a lot of attention paid to STO.

And for the record, I hope both succeed.

Originally posted by ktanner3

I'm suprised this topic hasn't come up sooner.

Oh, it sure has, but it's been a while.

Hmmm, 2364 people have voted for SWTOR, and 890 people have voted for STO, maybe this site should raise the posting quota before they can hype.

---

Originally posted by Cpt_Picard
Well my choice is obvious...
 
DS9 > Death Star
Enterprise > Star Destroyer
Q > Jedi
Worf > Chewbacca
 

---

Bioware > Cryptic

My choice is obvious as well.

While I would usually agree with you as I love Bioware's games and I am looking forward to SW:ToR with great interest I would have to point out that this is their first venture into the MMORPG genre. Add to this that although their particular talent at single player story lines is superb it has yet to be proven in a MMO environment. This is something totally new to the MMO genre and it could be hugely successful or it could bomb horribly... until we all play it we just don't know. Cryptic on the other hand are MMO veterans with two MMOs under their belt. CoX was a huge success like it or not and even though CO had a rocky start it seems to be bouncing back due to content releases and quick fixes by the dev team.

If these were single player games I wouldn't hesitate to agree with you that Bioware would own Cryptic but just that fact that they are MMOs make them pretty evenly matched if not giving a slight edge to Cryptic just because they have a lot more experience in this genre. I await both games and I truly hope that neither will disappoint.

Bren

Originally posted by ktanner3

I'm suprised this topic hasn't come up sooner. I've been a fan of both IPs since I was a little kid so I'm not going to try and say which is better. Both games look interesting and different enough from each other that they should have appeal to the fans of them. So far (and this is subject to change)it looks like STO will have an advantage for those that like to spend time in space as I have seen very little from TOR in this regard.Both will have a story with the TOR looking to have an advantage here seeing what they have done so far. STO will have the "captain's log" and mission briefings along with a skill based system(no levels) so I think for some it will just come down to which world you like playing in the most. There have been numerous Star Wars games over the years and I think the market might be starting to get oversaturated. Just how many more times will people be interested in playing a jedi? As of late, Star Trek games have been few and far in between and with the latest success of the movie I think there will be a lot of attention paid to STO.

And for the record, I hope both succeed.

Hard to say, even the people over at WOW would tell you its a crap shoot.     STO does look interesting, I more than likely will try out both games next year. 

Im gonna give both a go. I am looking forward to STO more, BUT really am jazzed about TOR. To me its a win win.

sto from what i heard has a skill based system and allows for full crafting and massive pvp

tor sounds like a single player game that allows you to have a friend along every other day or so.

mark my words sto will be pulling in millions tor will be lucky to hold onto 100k

I never was a fan of Star Track. lol yeah I know but I like to piss people off by saying it that way.  Star Wars always had a more interesting story to me and hell they have  lightsabers so you can't go wrong there.

Originally posted by stillkillin

sto from what i heard has a skill based system and allows for full crafting and massive pvp

tor sounds like a single player game that allows you to have a friend along every other day or so.

mark my words sto will be pulling in millions tor will be lucky to hold onto 100k

I predict STO (if cryptic does it right) will have have around 500k at release and could go up to 800k a few months after. SWTOR with pre-orders and release I see about 700k-1mill players, if the game is good I could see 2-2.5m players months to a year after. STO could be the better game, but SWTOR will have more appeal. Star Trek has a big fanbase, but at the same time so does Star Wars, you also gotta count in BioWare and KoTOR fans in general. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

From everything I've seen, BioWare has a better grasp of the Star Wars universe than Cryptic has of the Star Trek universe.  Nothing Cryptic has shown me conveys Star Trek -- oh, the skins are pretty and authentic, but that's about as convincing as SWG interpretation of Star Wars -- which is to say very shallow.

BioWare continues to impress me with their deep comprehension of the Star Wars mythos. The latest video on building Coruscant is just the most recent example.

 SW:TOR has Bioware on the job, (perhaps arguably?) the best RPG creator of all times, with Lucasarts, the story will take you deeper then the core of the earth.   as you can notice im putting all my bets on SW:TOR :)

I am very much looking forward to playing BOTH games. However, I think TOR will definitely win out over STO.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Star Trek... I just think that the company behind TOR has a better track record for quality AAA games. Bioware is one of my very favorite gaming companies and I have thoroughly enjoyed every single game they have released since Balder's Gate.

Cryptic, on the other hand, is not so proven. I did not really like City of Heroes, despite many attempts to get into it. I also did not enjoy my time in the Champions Online beta. I worry that they are going to rely too much on procedurally generated content, rather than creating interesting and immersive story-based content. I don't have that concern at all with Bioware.

Both are great IP's playing Both...

Originally posted by Anubisan

I am very much looking forward to playing BOTH games. However, I think TOR will definitely win out over STO.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Star Trek... I just think that the company behind TOR has a better track record for quality AAA games. Bioware is one of my very favorite gaming companies and I have thoroughly enjoyed every single game they have released since Balder's Gate.

Cryptic, on the other hand, is not so proven. I did not really like City of Heroes, despite many attempts to get into it. I also did not enjoy my time in the Champions Online beta. I worry that they are going to rely too much on procedurally generated content, rather than creating interesting and immersive story-based content. I don't have that concern at all with Bioware.

i agree. Bioware makes amazing games with amazing stories. Im looking forward to TOR. STO looks nice too.