MMORPG.com World of Warcraft Correspondent Sean Cooper writes this article discussing the difference between ganking and griefing and tells us why even he ganks every now and then.

It's happened to everyone in WoW; you're deep in the jungles of Stranglethorn Vale and you've just murdered another animal for Hemet Nessingwary Jr. As you approach the hunter's camp, pelts in hand, a powerful rogue comes out of the shadows and puts a 10k Ambush knife critical hit into your backside. You slam your hands on the keyboard in fury... he's been killing you for hours. You pray that he won't corpse camp you. After all, all you want to do is play the game.

As aspects of the player versus player experience, ganking and griefing are two of the most hotly contested topics in online gaming. Is there a difference between ganking and griefing? More importantly, why does it matter? Are the people responsible for these heinous crimes really demented citizens who were bullied as children and currently reside in their parents' basement, as some forum threads might have us believe?

Read Confessions of a Ganker

Average article I suppose. Was a fine read but doesn't say anything new. It just says in a few more words: 
- ganking is good, griefing is bad, and getting ganked is bad as well
- some gankers are mentals and some are not

Also the list of advice in the end seemed a bit shallow. Playing on a PvE server to avoid getting ganked? Oh really? And skinning to hide your trail? Sounds like an RPG thing in my opinion. People who kill mobs and know how to skil will also skin those mobs anyway. Same as people who can stealth will use it if they think someone tries to kill them.

I mean the author put effort into the article and I don't want to devalue that work. But the topic is discussed since years in each forum. So I expected to read something new, learn of a new viewpoint, get new insights or anything like that.

My personal opinion about the topic of griefing and ganking:
Ganking is the only reason why PvP servers exist in WoW. There are never perfectly even fights in world PvP. If people would only attack someone if it would be fair, then noone would ever kill anyone in the open world and you'd have a PvE server. So if you dislike ganking or getting ganked, don't play on a PvP server. Griefing: it's annoying but part of PvP. People do what entertains them and what the game allows them to do, as well as what you allow them to do. Try to get away from the guy, get some friends or do something else until he's gone.

The article's missing the one thing I learned from my time on PvP servers.

The very best way to avoid a serial-ganking is alts, alts, alts, and more alts.
Kill me once, shame on you.
Kill me twice, I'm logging an alt, and continuing with my enjoyable evening.

The difference between Ganking and Geifing is pretty simple...

Ganking = Your trying to have fun...your idea of fun is hunting other players.... choosing targets that give you a high probability of success is logical. Important distinction here... you are NOT setting out to ruin anyones day. If the other player gets upset, it's simply because they were unlucky enough to put thier characters into the cross-hairs.

Ganking is ok for games/environments that are setup with the EXPECTATION that it will happen. Corpse camping I'd say starts to get pretty close to crossing the line into griefing.

Griefing = Your trying to have fun.... your idea of fun IS ruining another players day. It really doesn't matter to you what activity you need to engage in in order to do that...your goal is not the activity, it's making the other play upset. Griefing is NEVER ok. It should result in a PERMA-BAN for anyone that engages in it. It's practitioners ARE socialy maladjusted kids (mentaly if not chronologicaly).

Personaly I don't do much PvP in MMO's at all. MMO's don't tend to do PvP very well in general. The experience is generaly pretty brain-dead in them and winning often comes down to nothing more then who is higher level, has better gear, has less lag, can mash buttons quicker or can put more bodies onto a server. The experience tends to be pretty shallow and involves very little skill, tactics or grey matter.

About the only MMO that I've seen that offers a good quality PvP experience is WWII-Online but that's because it's basicaly an FPS with a semi-persistant world and a huge number of players going at it.

For quality PvP experiences.... I goto games that are actualy designed for them...which are generaly not MMO's things like the Battlefield series (IMO) offer much better PvP experiences then MMO's do. Mostly I prefer those or strategy games, like Combat Mission or Advanced Tactics WWII or Norm Kroegers TOAW series. Those are the type of games where you really match wits with an opponent.

MMO's for me are more about PVE, role-play, socialization and escapeism.
 

"More importantly, what makes getting killed and camped by a player any different than an NPC mob?"

You can CHOOSE to walk away from the mob and do other stuff.

how about letting a goldfarmer writing an article next? or an account hacker.

seriously, the "justification" for ganking in that article is hilarious. but i guess it reflects the personality of the ppl who do it well.

People tend not to pay for to long for either getting ganked or grifed.

Jihad works both ways

It's called PvP and I'm so tired of hearing about ganking...... It's easy don't play on a PvP server and realize that I'm your enemy not your friend that's why it's called Alliance vs Horde. The only people that complain about being ganked are the people that get ganked before they can do it someone else. PERIOD!

I cut my teeth on a PvP server. I rarely ganked anyone. I found it more enjoyable to shadow lowbies just to freak them out. If I ran across an ally within a few levels of mine, I would always attack. I thought that was the real point of a PvP server.

I have a question?

Are PvP servers enjoyable for people that don't like to gank (don't kill anyone clearly inferior?)

I quit playing on PvP servers when I realized that at level 50 I had been killed by someone within a few levels of me maybe 5 or 6 times. But I had been killed by people 20+ levels above me well over a hundred times. And as I got higher level more and more often I was getting killed by groups.

I finally realized that while I had a lot of fun in 1v1 PvP or when grouped attacking like sized groups. Almost NOONE else on PvP servers had fun doing that, for them it was all about killing someone who has no chance of defending themselves.

I.E. 90%+ of the people I fought on PvP servers were just people frustrated at the world and wanting to take it out on someone.

No thanks. I'll stick to the battlegrounds where it is generally speaking a fair fight.

You cant truly gank in WoW lol, article writer sounds like a  carebear. No pun intended

 Probably the most fun I've ever had in an MMORPG was when a buddy and I leveled up druids together on a PvP server.  Between stealth, travel form, and track humanoids, we initiated every fight we were in, and when the stuff hit the fan, he was tank spec and I was healing spec, so we could take on just about any other group of up to three or four people.  

Even when we did occasionally lose (someone grabbed their 70 mains to seek revenge), it was still fun trying to get away from them.  We even started a few full-scale wars whenever we'd kill someone in a big guild and their mates would show up to help, then more of our people would show up, then strangers from each faction would join in... we had a 50 v 50 battle going on around Grom Gol once.  :)

Best time in WoW ever.  If you're going to play on a PvP server, I suggest you play one of the stealth or ranged classes.  Try a rogue, druid, hunter, or warlock and you'll be at a significant advantage.

Originally posted by Slambone

I have a question?

Are PvP servers enjoyable for people that don't like to gank (don't kill anyone clearly inferior?)

My brother prefers pvp servers, and never initiates pvp...ever. He likes them so that when he gets killed, he can get revenge, or when he sees some alliance trying to gank others, or corpse camp others, he can defend them. It's not my viewpoint, but it works for him.

For me, I have no idea if the alliance is just getting revenge for the same thing, so I have a hard time justifying defending my fellow horde members when I have no idea who started it, and don't really consider it a big deal to die. I have fun by hunting through low level areas, and sapping, maybe /licking individuals that I see out questing. I will only kill individuals if I see them killing horde friendly NPCs, for the RP value, but I do play on RPPVP servers.

With groups, I just love coming in, killing one, waving at the others, mounting, and running off...just to mess with their heads. I want them wondering what that one did to me, rather than simply thinking poorly of me.

To me, it just isn't fun to go around and kill every grey player to me, so I make games with it, and make my own fun.

-- Maarberg, Undead Rogue

Originally posted by Slambone

I cut my teeth on a PvP server. I rarely ganked anyone. I found it more enjoyable to shadow lowbies just to freak them out. If I ran across an ally within a few levels of mine, I would always attack. I thought that was the real point of a PvP server.

This is what I think too...and what I used to do on Magtheridon (EU)...although the allies was few and faaar between there.

Besides...if you can't take getting killed by the opposite faction...high lvl or same lvl both...what are you doing on a PVP server in the first place, or even worse, flag yourself with PVP???
 

Ganking and griefing are the same, they show a persons true colors. I guess that is why the community on PvP servers are generally a lot more rotten than communities on PvE centric games... it caters to rotten spirited people.

I guess if you enjoy ruining another persons playing experience you will defend it. I leveled 3 characters to 80 on a PvP server and not once did I ever encounter someone within 10 levels of me engage me in world PvP. So I asked myself, what is the point? I don't like ruining someone elses experience and engaging in jack-assery. Well when my irl friend quit the game I rerolled to a PvE server, better community, better leveling experience, I wasn't bothered while I went about my business leveling and it was the best experience I ever received from WoW.

There is no difference between "ganking" and "griefing". I utterly depise people who do it. IMO they are very very sick individuals in RL. They are merely doing in the game what they want to do in RL or ARE doing in RL. They should seek mental care help immediately. And no, I am not joking. Sick people. If you think its funny, you're one of them. And no ganking and griefing have nothing to do with pvp. Nothing wrong with pvp. PvP like the old UT was great. Attacking a far lesser player is and always has been the action of a coward. It takes NO talent or skill to kill a player half your level. What a loser. Let the asshat gankers begin the flames, I don't give a rats ass. Thats my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.

Wait, what?

Ganking and griefing in WOW?! I thought it was like Hello Kitty and that you couldnt loose anything? That everything magically reappears on your char when you have died?

To gank or not to gank, that is the question. I spend most of my time flying around looking for people to gank. Sadly the world is empty as of late and I have cancelled, perhaps a new game will provide more ganking opportunities.

If you are getting corpse camped, I believe the best solution is to go afk and make a sandwich. That way you waste the gankers time.

Time is money friend.

Originally posted by mynameisben

To gank or not to gank, that is the question. I spend most of my time flying around looking for people to gank. Sadly the world is empty as of late and I have cancelled, perhaps a new game will provide more ganking opportunities.

If you are getting corpse camped, I believe the best solution is to go afk and make a sandwich. That way you waste the gankers time.

Time is money friend.

You would run out of sandwich material pretty fast :)

it's pretty apparent there's two types of people on this disscusion chain, those who like to "gank/greif" and those who don't.   Question for those who do gank, more specifically gank "grey's", why? where's the challange, the sport.  Is slapping around someone who can't fight back good times?

Me personally i could never play on a PVE server, i like fighting other players, so much more challanging than hunting down computer AI hell boars.  (not dissing PVE players, just different strokes for different folks) But i never attack lowbies, hell i'm more likely to help out a grey on a different faction than attack him.  However if your with-in a few levels of me (lower or higher) and i'm not actively questing, i'm going to attack.  That's at least a challange and you get honor or temporary rights to whatever mob your trying to kill (or revenge, or if your  a gnome i hate gnomes).

So please gankers/griefers of the lowly grey's help me out, why? what's in it for you?

pvp tears make me want to resubscribe

Originally posted by shamus252

You cant truly gank in WoW lol, article writer sounds like a  carebear. No pun intended

This all depends on your definition of "gank".  IMO ganking is attacking someone who has no possibility of defeating you.  Griefing is the same, but doing it over and over.

One thing that amuses me is the mind set of "If you don't want to be ganked, then don't play on a PvP server."  Again, IMO, if everyone followed this...  Almost every PvP server would be a ghost town.  Just take a look at the server list after you log in.  A lot  of the servers listed as low population are PvP servers.

While i was still playing WoW i did so a lot on RP-PvP and PvP servers but i never enjoyed killing lowbies for no reason.

Ofcourse i killed a lot of people through the years but they usually did something to desreve it or it was part of a larger attack and they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Besides level 58-80 players hardly ever have a reason to be in a place where enemy lowbies are questing (since you're mostly in Outland / Northerend or a capital city at that point), so you really have to get out of your way if you get off on frustrating other people.

IMO, if you cannot accept that ganking and griefing happen then I really would recommend avoiding the PVP realms. While I find it personally cruel and unsatisfying to sucker punch or one shot someone that has no chance against me, and thus do not do it, I accept that it is a hazard of running in a PVP realm. Notable exceptions include if I see a person lower than me gank another or spawn camp a quest-giver, I will kill them. Other than that, the lowbies just are not worth the button press and likely have enough problems without me chiming in.

Hell, if see an "enemy" struggling against an NPC mob and near death I will wade in and help them kill it. Using the justification: "Well, I was ganked/griefed when I was leveling so I am gonna do it now." is such a lame cop-out, stop paying-forward the hate and step up to reverse the trend.

Peace, good leveling and may all your loot rolls be high when it counts.

I never understood the "fun" in killing grey characters. It's about as challenging and rewarding as killing a level 1 mob at level 80.

In the early days of WoW, I ran across a couple of campers who outleveled me by at least 20 levels. They were having a blast killing my character over and over, but didn't realize guildies were on the way. When two evenly-leveled guild characters showed up, they ran away and logged out. :D

Evenly leveled battles were fun, but there never seemed to be much interest in fighting if there was even a chance of losing.