Originally posted by SkeeSkee

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6228707&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;2

After reading that I threw up a little in my mouth.

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by Odela

Is there a reason?

Is it because we haven't seen anything massive yet?  Or because people think doing the main story is all there is to the game?


They've announced that there will be massive PvP fights and raids, as well as endgame when you complete the story.  Why are people still calling it a single player oriented MMO?

 

Because they (most of the community)  fail to digest all information about the game before they pass judgement and throw their uneducated opinion around as fact.  They (BW/LA) said during E3 that the player's story is about 10% of the game.  But no one takes the time to find/read that.  Basicly, ignorance is their issue.

I love how you pretty much hit the nail on the head, then the poster right after you provides an example lol.

I would have to say that most people see it is a single player game as a result of what they've seen to date.  Other than 2 players doing some early level missions there hasn't been a great deal of focus on the mulitplayer aspects.  I figure Bioware has focused their marketing, to date, on aspects of the game that differentiate their product from other MMO offerings.  I'm pretty sure that the game will have the standard MMO offerings.  Bioware just isn't focusing on marketing those aspects... yet.

Originally posted by xtravert

I would have to say that most people see it is a single player game as a result of what they've seen to date.  Other than 2 players doing some early level missions there hasn't been a great deal of focus on the mulitplayer aspects.  I figure Bioware has focused their marketing, to date, on aspects of the game that differentiate their product from other MMO offerings.  I'm pretty sure that the game will have the standard MMO offerings.  Bioware just isn't focusing on marketing those aspects... yet.

agreed, and - with only two classes per faction revealed - would be kinda hard to show anything more than a duo running around...

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

It will probably be single playerish until you hit the lvl cap and then, hopefully, more sandboxish aftewards.....just speculation though....or a dream!

Originally posted by meleemadness

It will probably be single playerish until you hit the lvl cap and then, hopefully, more sandboxish aftewards.....just speculation though....or a dream!

Hehe, sadly that sounds a lot like most MMOs these days.  Everyone solos to max level and then groups up for end-game content.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

LOL, only in your closed mind.  The rest of us learned how to read, digest information, and come up with logical conclusions. Obviously a talent you are lacking.  Never fear, someone will come along soon enough to spoon feed you the homer simpson version so you can get it.   One of the most ignorant posts I have read outside the official boards.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

I've never seen a MMO  where the developers put out videos of large raids, crafting, PvP and people socializings so early. That's something the players usual discuss/record during non NDA beta and release. I could be wrong though. So with no other information other then word of mouth from BioWare on this game being an MMO or not, It is a MMO currently, feel free to judge when you have proper counter arguements. Even though I doubt this will be considered valid, for you, can you even name a game BioWare labeled incorrectly?

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

LOL, only in your closed mind.  The rest of us learned how to read, digest information, and come up with logical conclusions. Obviously a talent you are lacking.  Never fear, someone will come along soon enough to spoon feed you the homer simpson version so you can get it.   One of the most ignorant posts I have read outside the official boards.

No one literally believes it's going to be a single player game.  We are exagerrating to get our point across.  We do however believe that the game will be heavily heavily solo based where 90% of things can be done without a group at all.  Which is terrible for an mmo in my opinion.

They've spent all this time telling us about solo ventures and/or two man groups.  They'll randomly throw out "Oh yea, we have the other stuff to, but let's get back to the solo quests and story."

That suggests to me that actual massively multiplayer content is in the back of their minds.  An afterthought.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but until they actually detail the massively multiplayer portions of this game I'll remain a skeptic.

Originally posted by greed0104

I've never seen a MMO  where the developers put out videos of large raids, crafting, PvP and people socializings so early. That's something the players usual discuss/record during non NDA beta and release. I could be wrong though. 

No, you're quite correct.   It's just many in the MMORPG community have an incredibly capcity to completely forget past examples of what the MMORPG industry has done.    

Every time videos and initial details of a new game are released, there are those who expect every single detailed to be revealed, all the graphics to look perfect and every mechanic to be already balanced even before the beta is announced.

For example, I've seen posts on other forums with eople saying that the Trooper looked overpowered in the PAX video.  It is that hard to remember this is an alpha character in a demo video?   Is is that hard to remember that things *ALWAYS* change in MMORPGs during development? 

 We've seen this before.   We'll see it  again.    It would nice if those in the community jumping to conclusions about any game could try to remember that for once.   

Other than FFXI , almost every mmo has soloable content so I'm not quite sure what the big fuss is all about. I think some are just paranoid that this game will be taking their subscibers away so they have to complain about something and make it known to everyone else.

 What I don't like about TOR is it's graphic style. I really hate the kiddie cartoony style.

I really wish Bioware would have made their own game engine instead of waisting so much cash on voice actors.

Using the Heroes Journey engine instead of designing their own is disappointing.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

LOL, only in your closed mind.  The rest of us learned how to read, digest information, and come up with logical conclusions. Obviously a talent you are lacking.  Never fear, someone will come along soon enough to spoon feed you the homer simpson version so you can get it.   One of the most ignorant posts I have read outside the official boards.

 

 

No one literally believes it's going to be a single player game.  We are exagerrating to get our point across.  We do however believe that the game will be heavily heavily solo based where 90% of things can be done without a group at all.  Which is terrible for an mmo in my opinion.

They've spent all this time telling us about solo ventures and/or two man groups.  They'll randomly throw out "Oh yea, we have the other stuff to, but let's get back to the solo quests and story."

That suggests to me that actual massively multiplayer content is in the back of their minds.  An afterthought.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but until they actually detail the massively multiplayer portions of this game I'll remain a skeptic.

90% of all content being done solo sounds a lot like pre-cu SWG to me. Actually I would say 98% of pre-cu could be soloed. Then we had the CU, which forced players into groups for decent XP (remember spin goups?), they made some mobs a bit tougher, some a bit easier, and they added lots of group content, all which people bitched about. Keep in mind this is how it is in EQ2, most of the content past 30 is raids and group type content.

Lets do a poll.
 

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

LOL, only in your closed mind.  The rest of us learned how to read, digest information, and come up with logical conclusions. Obviously a talent you are lacking.  Never fear, someone will come along soon enough to spoon feed you the homer simpson version so you can get it.   One of the most ignorant posts I have read outside the official boards.

 

 

No one literally believes it's going to be a single player game.  We are exagerrating to get our point across.  We do however believe that the game will be heavily heavily solo based where 90% of things can be done without a group at all.  Which is terrible for an mmo in my opinion.

They've spent all this time telling us about solo ventures and/or two man groups.  They'll randomly throw out "Oh yea, we have the other stuff to, but let's get back to the solo quests and story."

That suggests to me that actual massively multiplayer content is in the back of their minds.  An afterthought.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but until they actually detail the massively multiplayer portions of this game I'll remain a skeptic.

 

90% of all content being done solo sounds a lot like pre-cu SWG to me. Actually I would say 98% of pre-cu could be soloed. Then we had the CU, which forced players into groups for decent XP (remember spin goups?), they made some mobs a bit tougher, some a bit easier, and they added lots of group content, all which people bitched about. Keep in mind this is how it is in EQ2, most of the content past 30 is raids and group type content.

 

Lets do a poll.
 

Not to me it doesn't.  Most of my time was spent pvping in groups.  Not solo content at all.  It was world pvp, therefore unlimited group content.  If that pvp had been a couple of battlegrounds, it would have run dry fast and I would have quit long before the cu.

And that poll is extremely loaded.  Where is the "forced grouping if you want to complete high end" content.  Don't tell me that you support being able to solo everything.  I'm fine with being able to level solo, but once end-game comes you should not be able to achieve everything by yourself.  Which is what I fear of this game.

When I think of solo play and group play.  I think end-game.  Leveling is nothing but a long boring instruction manual.  It's all about end game.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

LOL, only in your closed mind.  The rest of us learned how to read, digest information, and come up with logical conclusions. Obviously a talent you are lacking.  Never fear, someone will come along soon enough to spoon feed you the homer simpson version so you can get it.   One of the most ignorant posts I have read outside the official boards.

 

 

No one literally believes it's going to be a single player game.  We are exagerrating to get our point across.  We do however believe that the game will be heavily heavily solo based where 90% of things can be done without a group at all.  Which is terrible for an mmo in my opinion.

They've spent all this time telling us about solo ventures and/or two man groups.  They'll randomly throw out "Oh yea, we have the other stuff to, but let's get back to the solo quests and story."

That suggests to me that actual massively multiplayer content is in the back of their minds.  An afterthought.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but until they actually detail the massively multiplayer portions of this game I'll remain a skeptic.

 

90% of all content being done solo sounds a lot like pre-cu SWG to me. Actually I would say 98% of pre-cu could be soloed. Then we had the CU, which forced players into groups for decent XP (remember spin goups?), they made some mobs a bit tougher, some a bit easier, and they added lots of group content, all which people bitched about. Keep in mind this is how it is in EQ2, most of the content past 30 is raids and group type content.

 

Lets do a poll.
 

 

 

Not to me it doesn't.  Most of my time was spent pvping in groups.  Not solo content at all.  It was world pvp, therefore unlimited group content.  If that pvp had been a couple of battlegrounds, it would have run dry fast and I would have quit long before the cu.

 

And that poll is extremely loaded.  Where is the "forced grouping if you want to complete high end" content.  Don't tell me that you support being able to solo everything.  I'm fine with being able to level solo, but once end-game comes you should not be able to achieve everything by yourself.  Which is what I fear of this game.

 

When I think of solo play and group play.  I think end-game.  Leveling is nothing but a long boring instruction manual.  It's all about end game.

To answer your question I think you should be able to level your character all the way up through your own story arc solo. It’s your character; you should be able to play how you choose, with who you choose. I do however believe that there should also be mass amounts of side quests that branch off your story arcs, or epic quests related to the large war for people who want a mix of both, like me, and a points system and rewards that show what you have done outside your story arcs.

As for PvP I think there should be plenty of contested areas where you are attackable, and areas where you can chose to become attackable since at this time there is a treaty, and it would seem some Sith and Rep forces are hostile towards each other, but not all the time. There should also be NPC that hate you both and get thrown in the mix of PvP in some cases. I also think there should be a points and ranking system that is tied to PvP and how NPC treat you, as well as what missions you get from them. There should be epic quests in contested PvP zones as well that are actually more than just, run in capture the flag without dyeing. It needs to be a mix of both solo and multi, it can’t cater to just one or the other.This is the direction I think they are taking this game, based on my understanding of what they have said. If you read every article up to this point, it sounds like the direction they want to go.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by SkeeSkee

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6228707&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;2

 

After reading that I threw up a little in my mouth.

Yup.  Catering to the solo player, straight from the horses mouth.  And people wonder why others are seeing this as a single player mmo?  With an interview like in the link, what are people suppose to think? 

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I think the people saying it is heavily solo focused are using more logic than the fanboys saying it isn't.  At least those saying it's a single player game are going on what has been shown.  Those saying it isn't have nothing to base that on other than obscure dev references and hope.

 

The burden of proof falls on those who say somethign exists.  If heavy/standard mmo multiplayer exists?  Show it to me.  A dev saying it exists does not mean it actually does.   For all we know, them saying the standard mmo stuff exists means that there is one room where you can socialize, one 6v6 battleground, and 5 items you can craft.  There needs to be actual examples.  Screenshots, videos, detailed game systems, etc.  AOC devs said there game would have meaningful lag free pvp, with minimal zoning.  We all know how that turned out to be a lie.

 

As of right now. It's a single player game with the option to play with a few more people. It will remain that until they show otherwise.

 

LOL, only in your closed mind.  The rest of us learned how to read, digest information, and come up with logical conclusions. Obviously a talent you are lacking.  Never fear, someone will come along soon enough to spoon feed you the homer simpson version so you can get it.   One of the most ignorant posts I have read outside the official boards.

 

 

 

No one literally believes it's going to be a single player game.  We are exagerrating to get our point across.  We do however believe that the game will be heavily heavily solo based where 90% of things can be done without a group at all.  Which is terrible for an mmo in my opinion.

They've spent all this time telling us about solo ventures and/or two man groups.  They'll randomly throw out "Oh yea, we have the other stuff to, but let's get back to the solo quests and story."

That suggests to me that actual massively multiplayer content is in the back of their minds.  An afterthought.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but until they actually detail the massively multiplayer portions of this game I'll remain a skeptic.

Ok.  Here are the basics as I see it.  BW is a single player game company.  This is their first foray into the MM arena.  So of course they can release solo content like no ones business.  They are masters of that, their RPG titles prove that.  The MM area is where they are weakest.  So it only stands to reason that they want to test the MM aspects of the game before they say; hey we have this and it's great!' But come game day it does not work.  AOC, WAR anyone?  

So, my opinion is they are not going to release any MM aspects until they have tested the hell out of them and made sure what they say they can deliver, they actually deliver.  In my mind it makes perfect sense.  Again, this is just my theory, of course I could be wrong but I am pretty convinced we are in for some very good surprises. All we have to do it wait a bit, and see how things play out.  It really is far to early to be crying wolf over this game yet.   

Again, these are my opinions and are based off what I have read thus far, and logical deduction.

Also, before some one say's it and pisses me off, I know we have seen 2 player game play so far, that in and of itself by no means constitutes massive.  Unless you are with the department of homeland security, but they just make crap up as they go anyway.

Of course you have a different point of view and that's fine.  Please come with an argument that make sense, If we are gonna debate this, then lets do that, not rehash the same old crap that's posted everywhere.

Originally posted by Shohadaku

 What I don't like about TOR is it's graphic style. I really hate the kiddie cartoony style.

I really wish Bioware would have made their own game engine instead of waisting so much cash on voice actors.

Using the Heroes Journey engine instead of designing their own is disappointing.

You could use the Hero Engine with any sort of graphics you like. The game could look like AoC, WoW, LotRO, Aion, anything you can think of and still use the Hero Engine.

If Bioware had made  their own engine, they would have made a copy of the Hero Engine. So, why would you want them to do that?

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Originally posted by SkeeSkee

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Originally posted by Ruyn

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Originally posted by SkeeSkee

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6228707&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;2

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After reading that I threw up a little in my mouth.

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Yup.  Catering to the solo player, straight from the horses mouth.  And people wonder why others are seeing this as a single player mmo?  With an interview like in the link, what are people suppose to think? 

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That's an MMORPG like WoW, EQ2, LotRO, etc etc. At least that's what the non-emo crowd will see.