this is the dawning of the ear of aquarius

Wow is a great game and brought a lot of fun to people and still is, and blizzard has tried to make it different with every patch and gave us something new everytime (which i admire) - people are only saying it's shit cause its getting old .

The only thing that i didnt see blizzard doing was giving australia it's own servers. When my mates made a public server to stuff around on.... i found my wow experience had gotten so much better, to know that when i cast a "Instant cast" spell it actually casts instantly (lol) with no .5 of a second reaction bs.

I agree, while WoW isn't particularly fun, it's a very solid game and does pretty much everything right.. increasing the standards of MMOs.... and for that it deserves to be on top, despite all the haters.. Most haters hate the game not because it's bad but because it's such a bully making other decent and sometimes even good quality MMOs go under. It steals attention from other MMOs and that makes people angry.

And while you can argue whether or not WoW is fun... I don't think anyone could say WoW is a bad game and be taken seriously.

WoW can only steal attention from other games because other games are lacking in something.  WoW has the fan base and cash to keep refining and refining.  Probably refining the hell out of the new mmo they are making.  That is what sets Blizzard apart from a lot of companies.  Nothing leaves Blizzard's door till they say it is ready. 

As to graphics...I like the graphics because it reminds me of Warcraft 3.  One thing I will give WoW...they have the best character combat animations in a game I have seen.  Every other game that I have tried look like ginger bread men bending at all the wrong places to swing a sword in a rather lame way.  EQ2 is the worst.  Horrible animations. 

I have not played Wow for at least 3 years.   I just got tired of it and never went back, not even for the expansions, but I still consider it one of the better MMO's out there and their continued success speaks for itself.   

So while you might not like Wow, but saying it is not a good game is just dumb.

Next big thing, Virtual MMORPG! :| that be sweet!

Originally posted by Ozmodan

So while you might not like Wow, but saying it is not a good game is just dumb.

I agree with this. WoW might not fit the definitions of what fun is to you, but it does fit that definition for a lot of people. Even if they only had 2 million players worldwide, WoW would be considered a runaway success. To maintain that same number over 5 years? Unthinkable. And yet by every account, there's more players than that, and the level of player retention is very high.

WoW might not be your game, but it's still good game.  You can't even use the excuse that there's no alternative, because there's plenty of alternative games. Most people would just rather keep playing, or go back to WoW. That being said, there's always room for improvement in the industry. It just needs a developer to get the courage to buck the trend and make a game that you might consider fun, but at the same time can be popular.

So many people are willing to dis WoW or not give it credit 1. because they dident like WC3 or any of blizzards games... fact is Blizzard is the Number 1 gaming company in the world more copies have sold of there games then all the ffs all the zeldas.. they are number 1 in sales.. and say they are cheap... nice

Originally posted by Frobner

 Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics

 

Right on!

That's probably why the gaming industry in no way has influenced the GPU technology development, and why we still mainly play MUDs.

/Irony

Blizzard's World of Warcraft is the number one PC game ever created.

If you can't live with that, ... play it.

---

In talking about Cataclysm, Brack explained a lot of the reasons behind the choices they made. The Goblins are there to give the Horde a small race, complimentary to the Gnomes, while the Worgen are seen as the sinister side of the Alliance being compared to the Undead of the Horde. Both classes offer something new to players who want to create a new character. The other area we did not talk as much about is giving the new class break down to the different races. There are charts out there, and if you play WoW you have likely already decided which class you will play.

---

I think you mean "races" not "classes."  Blizzard indicates on the FAQ for Cataclysm they don't plan on adding another class.

Im glad blizzard has figured out that making a quality game easier and requiring little time will make them millions from the casual players.

I just wish some company would figure out that there are enough of us that would like a quality game with open world PvP, challenging dungeons that last more than 30 minutes and larger scale, progressive raiding.

Ive played WoW off and on for a long while and although it is a good game, it just fails to keep me and my friends happy for any length of time.

Originally posted by Barteaux

Originally posted by Frobner

 Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics

 

 

Right on!

That's probably why the gaming industry in no way has influenced the GPU technology development, and why we still mainly play MUDs.

 

/Irony

I think he meant that you can get away with using lower quality graphics if you have solid game play (WoW). Games with better graphics and low quality game play (EQ2, AoC) tend to exist, but never prosper. Bioware wants to compete with WoW and they have gone the same route, using low quality graphics, which will allow them to run smoothly on lower end machines.

---

Originally posted by Murashu
Im glad blizzard has figured out that making a quality game easier and requiring little time will make them millions from the casual players.
 
I just wish some company would figure out that there are enough of us that would like a quality game with open world PvP, challenging dungeons that last more than 30 minutes and larger scale, progressive raiding.
 
Ive played WoW off and on for a long while and although it is a good game, it just fails to keep me and my friends happy for any length of time.

---

Exactly. Blizzard, while it has had problems with some employees in the past, and that is why we have GW, they still make the most polished games and the most well-conceived games. The problem with WoW for so many people is not that it is a bad game. It is perhaps the most well-designed game on the market. If you do not like WoW, it is because it is not your playstyle, not because it is a bad game. I have two major problems with WoW that prevent me from playing it (ignoring lore-mixups, too themeparky, and not enough sandboxy)

1. Progression is gear-based, and gear is far too powerful when compared with player skill and player talents.

2. PvE is just too easy. There is not an encounter in the game that is genuinely hard; every encounter is based on one or two things (per phase) that the group must be aware of and avoid or react to. That simply isn't the level of difficulty that I want.

Blizzard has marketed this game to the masses, many of which are more eager to play an easy but fun game than I am. Blizzard marketed well (television what?), and they game appeals to most young and new gamers. And say what you want about the graphics, they are fine for most people. How much time do you spend look at your character's face, really? I mean, really?

I think that Blizzard's secret MMO with a new IP will be much more..."hardcore." I think it will still appeal to casuals, but I think it will be harder and more complex. I think Blizzard knows they have cornered this one market, and if they make a hard sandbox, they could easily get the vast majority or what is left.

Originally posted by Barteaux

Originally posted by Frobner

 Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics

 

 

Right on!

That's probably why the gaming industry in no way has influenced the GPU technology development, and why we still mainly play MUDs.

 

/Irony

Right cause I meant who cares about content, fun, playability or any of that crap as long as the graphics are good! Fail. Flashy visuals do not a good MMO make.

Originally posted by spinach8puff

Originally posted in the article

It seems that while early MMOs were much more hardcore, companies are starting to see that the game has to fit your lifestyle, not having your lifestyle revolve around the game.

It sure took them, the companies, awhile to realize that if they are just starting to see.

Yeah, it only took the MMORPG industry more than 10 years and the recent failures of their founding fathers like Brad McQuaid, Gaute Godager, Mark Jacobs and Richard Garriottt, that's all.  

And yet we still have some in the community whining that modern MMORPGs should be more like the hardcore game in the past.   It's like asking car companies for the return of the Model-T automobile.

For all it's flaws WoW showed the MMORPG industry that it didn't have to a niche market that only appealed to hardcores who were wiling to pay for tedious, timesink game mechanics.   The online market is larger than anyone imagined and it's only going to grow.  And that's not going to grow by tapping into the hardcore market which has already showed its severe limits in the decade pre-WoW.

The old-school MMORPG designers had their chance to try and make games for this market.    Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammerand Tabula Rasa ranged from being utter failures to just mediocre.    

The MMORPG community needs to figure out that companies with any brains are not going to be looking to the games of the past as examples for their future games.  

I had alot of fun playing WoW so I don't hate it simply because I grew bored of it. For me unfortionately nothing Blizz does with WoW in the future will make me return. WoW is so old and stale now I can hardly stand to even look at screenshots of it...lol

Originally posted by AkumaDaimyo

Originally posted by Barteaux

Originally posted by Frobner

 Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics

 

 

Right on!

That's probably why the gaming industry in no way has influenced the GPU technology development, and why we still mainly play MUDs.

 

/Irony

Right cause I meant who cares about content, fun, playability or any of that crap as long as the graphics are good! Fail. Flashy visuals do not a good MMO make.

From what do you conclude that I don't care about fun, content and playability? I just find it curious that someone would claim that fancy graphics has nothing to do with gaming.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by Frobner

No matter what you say about WOW or Blizzard - noone can take away the fact that they create quality GAMES.  Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics - long loading screens and boring side issues.  Its pure and simple.  Fun !

 

 

LOL graphics has EVERYTHING to do with quality,that is what brings the game to life.If it was just text based and mechanics with no graphics it would be dull and boring.

The quality part is a debate as cheap is not really considered to be quality imo anyhow.If you went to buy a coffee table,would cal la veneer top quality? or would the natural cherry wood grain finish be considered quality?again this leads back to visual.I hope i made the point clear enough.

No i am also fair i realize wow has lots of mechanics and lots of maps and lots of different battles and variety in classes.

The graphics were ONLY done to cater to their already fanbase and the ease of creating the game.This also is why they used the cheap game engine,they went for the cheap approach,the easiest way to get a game out.Nothing in the creation of wow was planned to make a solid game for the user,they went with what they knew from EQ and what they already had.

Ok now here is my other beef.The community,ok that is not Blizzard's fault,except when you cater to the warcraft crowd using the same graphics ,you ARE catering to kids.My biggest beef is in the way Blizzard has transpired over the years.Ok they made a cheap version of Eq fine,that is what they had to go with ,so they did their best.They figured to make up for the lack of game versus EQ,they would offer easier leveling and bigger rewards for doing the simplest quests.So in essence they were BRIBING their fanbase.I can see it, the kids need pampering.

Ok it does not end there.After years of making millions,it is about time Blizzard stepped up and delivered their game back to the customers who made them rich.Step up and re do the textures,other games have done it ,Blizzard most certainly could do it.

Why ?because looking at a tree with a terrible looking bark texture ruins the atmosphere for me.Why? because looking at rock and it looks like one big texture pasted  onto the side of one big brush ,loses everything for me,it just looks bad and fake.Personally i think Blizzard did not know they would be a success,this has come back to bite them.Their game engine is soooo cheap their hands are tied for turning the game into anything good looking.Their payroll and staff is SOoooo huge they can't afford to do anything for the game,that they cannot sell to it's customer.

In the end ,if i want to see a better designed WOW,i look to EQ2,and i have been there in both games.The ONLY way WOW could ever become a good QUALITY game is to redo it with a better game engine and better textures and proper lighting and use of shaders.As is i fails in almost every area of QUALITY.

You sir are an idiot.    Graphics are not the make all end all of any game, it's a contributing factor but gameplay is the single most important aspect of any game.    If things like textures bother you then stop fucking playing video games pure and simple.

Secondly blizzard makes over $5 billion a year if you think they're broke I second the you are an idiot.   12 million times $15 is $180,000,000 a month then you have expansions, faction/realm changes, blizzard store crap and w/e else.   So get real man seriously.     

Blizzard doesn't make a game that they wouldn't think would be a success, in fact ANY business does not develop or manufacture shit it doesn't  think will make them serious money.    Where's your common sense?

Blizzard's hands aren't tied at all, but why would they want to recreate a game that is almost over?    They are more concerned about the release of their new mmo.    If they turned around and gave us all the bells and whistles then what would they be able to offer us in the next game?

Also not everyone can afford to run top notch graphics, wow is good for catering to people with a lower budget computer you might not be able to explore all content but you can explore most even with the shittiest computer.

Wow's game engine is completely fine, it's been around for 5 years and has dominated every damn mmo made.   You can't do that with a broken game.

Blizzard doesn't bribe their fanbase, they only cater to what they want.  People wanted realm and faction transfers so blizz offered it at a price.   People wanted game cards so they didn't need a credit card, blizzard let it happen.   Most of the mmo world do not have time to play hardcore and wanted a more casual raiding experience, blizzard offered that too.   Everything the majority of players wanted they got.    It's common business practice, you cater to your customers and they will continue to give you their money end of story.    They don't care about the little guy, and why should they?

They fail with quality?    I guess 12 million people are wrong with what they chose as quality.

You sir need to learn how to research and actually have a clue wtf you're talking about.   Stop trying to troll and get your head out of your ass and learn to have fun.  

Originally posted by karat76

 The other issue I have with wow is the raid content. I don't care if they drop the loot tables down but they should give at least 5 man versions of all dungeons.

aren't they doing just that? And one man.

I do give Blizzard the top seat when it comes to WoW overall quality and customer support; no other gaming company I've dealt with sets as high a standard and does it's best to live up to it.

Certainly I'm not thrilled with every little change that has come along in WoW, but the game has imo become better than it was, from story lines to graphics and sound. More ways of advancing are open to more people than ever before.

However, the cry for real quality in quest chains and rewards had fallen of deaf ears, for the most part. WotLK did improve the story line quality of the quests, overall, but they were no more challenging, and some of the re-visiting of the same areas to do different quests was abysmal. I'm talking particularly the Zul'Drak area. Time and time again we go to the same place, have to kill the same mobs, one quest after the other because it is impossible to do them all at once. They are pretty much grind-level quests too - kill x number of mobs, gather x number loot. Blizzard takes a new world full of interesting content and makes it dull by providing insipid quest chains - and, at the beginning of WotLK, forces you to wait until L77 and spend another 1K gold to be able to fly again.

Better quests, and a bigger world too. MMOs are just too small these days, the world can be explored in hours and it should take weeks, or months. I know we live in an "instant gratification" society, but where the effort to please all gamers hurts the experience of the more dedicated (or just the one with more time to play in the short term) is where quality is adveresely effected. This too is happening in WoW.

Overall though, yes, the devs are doing a great job and I'm excited about Cataclysm. Thanks Blizzard, and keep up the good work!

You're never going to get everyone to like your game... but hey, for the hardcores, there's still 25 man raids, and there are heroic modes of various other dungeons which are pretty hard.

Blizzard is trying to cater to everyone, so it's natural some people are going to feel put out - sorry they aren't just catering for one group (pvpers, pve-ers, explorers, achievement whores, etc. etc.) - but this seems to be a pretty good strategy. Everyone gets like, a 7/10 experience, on average, and that's what Blizzard wants, because aiming for any one group moreso than others would make some people have a 2/10, and 10/10 experience, and despite the raving good reviews from the 10/10 group, the bad rep from those scorned with their 2/10 experience isn't worth it to them.

But the 7/10 gameplay coupled with a good, solid game engine core with nice (if a little dated) graphics, the game does pretty well for itself.

If they updated the graphics to something that most computers nowadays can run (you know, like, triple the current polygons, quadruple the texture size (256x256 -> 512x512 = 4x total), and hell keep the current animations (they are DAMN good) and they'd have themselves a good chance against the current Aion newbies.

That said, it'd take a lot of investment to create all that new artwork, including server fees again (downloading what, a 10GB patch for 11 million players? Daaang)

But it'd be pretty nice to log into a game that looks current-gen.

Originally posted by Blazz

That said, it'd take a lot of investment to create all that new artwork, including server fees again (downloading what, a 10GB patch for 11 million players? Daaang)

But it'd be pretty nice to log into a game that looks current-gen.

A fresh download of Champions online and similar is only like 2-3GB and that have brad new artwork not just updated ones, a graphics update should be like 700 meg at most.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Frobner

No matter what you say about WOW or Blizzard - noone can take away the fact that they create quality GAMES.  Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics - long loading screens and boring side issues.  Its pure and simple.  Fun !

 

 

I'd agree, but WoW isn't fun.

Perhaps not to you.  But I've been in since late beta, and while I get bored and wander off once in a while. Its a fun game all the way to level cap, and I keep going back once they add new content.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by Frobner

No matter what you say about WOW or Blizzard - noone can take away the fact that they create quality GAMES.  Gaming has nothing to do with fancy graphics - long loading screens and boring side issues.  Its pure and simple.  Fun !

 

 

LOL graphics has EVERYTHING to do with quality,that is what brings the game to life.If it was just text based and mechanics with no graphics it would be dull and boring.

The quality part is a debate as cheap is not really considered to be quality imo anyhow.If you went to buy a coffee table,would cal la veneer top quality? or would the natural cherry wood grain finish be considered quality?again this leads back to visual.I hope i made the point clear enough.

No i am also fair i realize wow has lots of mechanics and lots of maps and lots of different battles and variety in classes.

The graphics were ONLY done to cater to their already fanbase and the ease of creating the game.This also is why they used the cheap game engine,they went for the cheap approach,the easiest way to get a game out.Nothing in the creation of wow was planned to make a solid game for the user,they went with what they knew from EQ and what they already had.

Ok now here is my other beef.The community,ok that is not Blizzard's fault,except when you cater to the warcraft crowd using the same graphics ,you ARE catering to kids.My biggest beef is in the way Blizzard has transpired over the years.Ok they made a cheap version of Eq fine,that is what they had to go with ,so they did their best.They figured to make up for the lack of game versus EQ,they would offer easier leveling and bigger rewards for doing the simplest quests.So in essence they were BRIBING their fanbase.I can see it, the kids need pampering.

Ok it does not end there.After years of making millions,it is about time Blizzard stepped up and delivered their game back to the customers who made them rich.Step up and re do the textures,other games have done it ,Blizzard most certainly could do it.

Why ?because looking at a tree with a terrible looking bark texture ruins the atmosphere for me.Why? because looking at rock and it looks like one big texture pasted  onto the side of one big brush ,loses everything for me,it just looks bad and fake.Personally i think Blizzard did not know they would be a success,this has come back to bite them.Their game engine is soooo cheap their hands are tied for turning the game into anything good looking.Their payroll and staff is SOoooo huge they can't afford to do anything for the game,that they cannot sell to it's customer.

In the end ,if i want to see a better designed WOW,i look to EQ2,and i have been there in both games.The ONLY way WOW could ever become a good QUALITY game is to redo it with a better game engine and better textures and proper lighting and use of shaders.As is i fails in almost every area of QUALITY.

Well... Having played EQ2, while its certainly pretty in places, I'll take WoW's armor and weapons over EQ2 any day of the week.  Not to mention that WoW will run on a much larger section of the installed hardware base than EQ2 will(epsecially when it launched). The animations in EQ2 seemed rather stiff(look at the flying griffin as an example).  I suspect you are using the word "quality" in a rather subjective fashion.  First and foremost WoW is *fun* to me. It also seems to be fun to many millions of other people around the world.  While there are a lot of Bnet battle kiddies in WoW, looking down ones nose at the WoW community(such as it is) is neither helpful, nor profitable... I doubt one would find a game company that wouldn't LOVE to have WoW's subscriber numbers.