Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

 

*mod edit for exessive language, please read our  ROC  *

Did you even play EQ?  Lol

Why should items come from players instead of raids?  Did you raid in EQ?  Getting endgame items in EQ is much harder than newer MMORPGs.  In WoW and AION you can get items NP, but in EQ only like .1% of the population had the best gear.  In EQ you can be somebody, in newer MMORPGS, no matter how great you are, you are still going to be a relative nobody, gear is trivial in new games.

EQ didn't even have quests, this is bullshit.  You didn't even play EQ.  EQ didn't have quests really, maybe some epic quests.  EQ didn't even have mini-maps, where are they gonna paint on your quest map "go A to B " in EQ when they dont have it?  

Grinding for gear?  EQ raids we're really difficult, they weren't grinds.  In PoP you can get to a raid boss in less than an hour, many of them within 5 minutes.  How is that a grind?  

EQ didn't have instances either, until their junk expansions, but mainly it was a massive world.

There are no EQ clones out there, because I'd be playing it.  A game with no instances, difficult PvE and open PvP.  EQ was the only true MMORPG.  UO is a piece of garbage, it looks like Diablo 2, lmao.  Is it even an MMORPG.  What a bad troll

Thats what I always said with the

UO School of Thought  vs EQ School of Thought

Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

 

*mod edit for exessive language, please read our  ROC  *

Totally silly rant.

The fact that EQ is 5x more successful than UO (500k vs 100k) and WOW is 20x more successful than EQ shows that hack-n-slash is what people find fun. You don't like it .. FINE. Don't play.

Personally, EQ is 100x the better game than UO. This world thing is way over-rated. Each MMORPG needs to have a good GAME underneath. The "g" is for game.

Without EQ MMO's might have never established themselves. A lot of what the OP blames on EQ is actually single player game menatality imported into MMO's.

I must leap to the defence of PvP. But not PvP servers, I am talking about zoned PvP where the player chooses to go and play against that toughest of enemies, another player. PvP servers have a morass of problems as the dropping numbers from such servers shows.
 

I wouldn't say EQ influence was terrible.  It brought some terrible ideas to the table like the holy trinity, single player group design, rigid classes to name a few but over all I think EQ had a positive influence on the genre.

 yep ,eq is still the mesuring stick by wich new game get judged.

 anyone remember that scene in jay and silent bob strike back where they take their money fly to all the internet posters houses and beat the shit out of them. that scene was funny.

Can't we have both?

Do you have to play mmo's you don't like?

Were we all 'forced' to play games we didn't like? Who held the hot poker to your eye?

If EQ ruined the genre, than why did it grow?

Sounds like you are really QQing about VHS because you are a BETA man.

I'm sorry your preferred style didn't take off, but do you have to blame my football game because you prefer baseball?

Get upset that no one post UO has even attempted that style of game to see if it can have mass appeal. Don't blame WoW for seeing the potential in EQ's style.

I played old EQ and i too think it was awesome and no other game has come close to that feeling since. But if EQ never was I dont think things would have changed that much , because Asherons Call was released the same year as EQ. So I think the genre would evolved pretty much the same way. IMO

I think that sandbox games just wont work in MMO form, i mean look at almost every sandbox game that's been succesfull, most them are console games. The fun in sandbox is, its a sandbox. And you can't blow the world to Heck in an MMObecause then others wouldn't enjoy the same experiance

Originally posted by Bribarian

I applaud the OP's post.

Well said. 

I think spoonfed games are just easier to hit mainstream with.  It is the bottom line afterall.  At least there are still a bunch of sandbox niche games with followings.  I miss the days of the unpredictable pvp of UO.  Kept things fresh everytime you logged in, you didn't know what would happen or who you might run into.

I agree!  But wait... when did EQ spoonfeed people?  That's where you're losing me.

UO probably was great, I never had the chance to play it.  I did play EQ, and every game to come out since has changed the game dynamic such that everything is easier, from leveling, to getting gear, to finishing quests.  It wasn't a sandbox, granted, but neither was it the same as the garbage released these days.  It is not responsible for meaningless quest lines taking you from level 1 to level cap.  It is not responsible for mini-maps showing you precisely where you should be at any given time.  And it is absolutely not responsible for the "me, me, me, now, now, now" mentality of gamers these days.  It is responsible for the the popular group dynamics (tank, dps, heal), and for introducing raiding.  Maybe that's unforgivable to you, but I just choose not to raid leaving only the group mechanics.  And I can live with those.

Explain to me how EQ's "terrible" influence on the MMORPG genre is in anyway based on "spoonfed" content.  It simply isn't.

(And this post is only because you applauded the OP's post and went on to talk about spoonfed games.  Since the OP blames everything on EQ, I'm assuming you do as well and if that's not the case, then please disregard)

EQ introduced easy mode in MMO's you don't have to think much, you character design is all laid out for you.  That is why it was successful.  Aion is an example of worse easy mode, there are even less character design decisions in it that most of the others.

Because so many players are lazy and don't want to design an avatar from scratch.  Heaven forbid they make a less powerful one than someone else.

It is a sad reflection on our society today.

Originally posted by Gameloading

To be blunt, the problem with Ultima Online is that it was controlled by nerds.

And there is a little sub-group of people, it seems, that want back their old little niche nerd-filled games again.  I've played every one of them that they get all misty-eyed over, and thought most of them were garbage, mostly because of the types of people that played them, and my wanting to strike most of them in the face with a rubber mallet. 

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Gameloading

To be blunt, the problem with Ultima Online is that it was controlled by nerds.

LOL!!!! 

And EQ had what? the cool kids controlling it?

LOL! seriously.

 

Nobody could really bother you in Everquest. Sure they might take your kill but that's pretty much it.

In old Ultima Online, a player could kill you and loot your corpse.

Okay I am siting this, one and the op as examples of people that if they played EQ they didn't play it long, or on anything other than a non pvp server. Cause guess what when eq was first out there was this server, many here will know it called Rallos Zek, where anyone could pvp anyone and if they killed you they could loot your money and some of your gear. On all pvp servers they could loot your money, so don't say ksing was it, there was KSing, ganking, looting you, and if they were really harsh the corpse camped you until your corpse rotted which meant all your gear was gone, forever, gota go get it again. So no EQ was not carebare.

As to it ruining the genra EQ was a world, had all kinds of worldly stuff in it, had crafting cept none of us really did it, had a lot of features no one even used. What started killing sandboxes, as someone else so learnedly put it, was all the bad sandboxes that got put out. Shadowbane and SWG were the worst of those, I remember playing shadowbane the economy was so bad we went to a bartar system for cryin out loud. Money meant nothing al all, I had a fortune cause I had a little cleric with summon person siting in a major city. I'd log him on and make a few hundred thousand gold, then log off.

Yes I say WoW has hurt mmo's more than anything, but if it wasn't wow something else would have done it, so really you wana point fingers point it at youself and everyone else on this site. Cause when the games were young we had some hand in where things went. We just didn't find a way to make people act right, so shame on us all.

I am sorry but blaming EQ is a load of tosh.

Lets list the real Issue that have led us to where we are at:

• Internet access and availability of it to the masses rather than expensive dial up costs which meant that a lot of online games were limited to educsted , well paid individuals who were capable of more than grunting.
• Increase in mass of the player base, has resulted in the dumbing down of games introducing automated features that ruin community and gameplay(The win at all costs and end game scenario
• It is not about fun anymore just winning and showing I have the biggest Epeen syndrome.

EQ was never the problem ....... In some ways the games of old that were fantastic to play and had real communities will never come back unless a limited capita/server model is reintroduced.

I wish I had played UO back then, but I played EQ and would do it again if given the chance.  EQ had a sort of emergent life-like property that I'm willing to bet UO shared, which I believe outweighed it's flaws.  It was a great experience for many people, despite the failures it left in its wake.

Originally posted by heremypet

I wish I had played UO back then, but I played EQ and would do it again if given the chance.  EQ had a sort of emergent life-like property that I'm willing to bet UO shared, which I believe outweighed it's flaws.  It was a great experience for many people, despite the failures it left in its wake.

So true , real challenge existed at the inception of EQ, the game was great.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

EQ introduced easy mode in MMO's you don't have to think much, you character design is all laid out for you.  That is why it was successful.  Aion is an example of worse easy mode, there are even less character design decisions in it that most of the others.

Because so many players are lazy and don't want to design an avatar from scratch.  Heaven forbid they make a less powerful one than someone else.

It is a sad reflection on our society today.

These are ENTERTAINMENT. There is no point to require people to work hard in GAMES. This is like asking people to read an article and write a report before watching a movie. That is just silly.

Originally posted by Netzoko

That's right, I said it. EQ hurt the genre in a large way. If EQ didn't exist, those players would have played UO, and instead of the huge array of grindy ass level based pieces of garbage we have today, we would instead have virtual worlds. Worlds in which the players decide what to do with their time in game, as well as their characters. A world where death matters, and where items don't come from hours raiding shitty AI bosses in dungeons, but rather the hands and design of the players.

EQ is the reason we have shit like WoW, LOTR, and the newest disgust, Aion. You follow the A to B painted pathway the game gives you, you kill repetitive mobs over, and over, and over. Then the fun begins right? Yeah, you get to grind for gear! Then what you ask? Well then the dev releases an expansion, and you get MORE gear! Isn't that a great game formula?

Honest to god, go back in time and delete EQ. We sure sure as hell have less copies of a shitty game for 10 years. On the positive side, however, we would have real massively multiplayer worlds, not single player RPGs with a few other people playing the same single player RPG. This forum is filled with dismay for the genre. You know what? Kick out every EQ clone and you are left with some damn good games. Interesting, isnt it?

 

*mod edit for exessive language, please read our  ROC  *

Lineage came out one year earlier than EQ, had many more suscriber, and was the most horrid grind ever created.

EQ can be blamed for the raiding threadmill, that's about it.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

EQ introduced easy mode in MMO's you don't have to think much, you character design is all laid out for you.  That is why it was successful.  Aion is an example of worse easy mode, there are even less character design decisions in it that most of the others.

Because so many players are lazy and don't want to design an avatar from scratch.  Heaven forbid they make a less powerful one than someone else.

It is a sad reflection on our society today.

Lol at EQ being easy mode.  EQ on a PvP server is a harder MMO than anything out there.

Every MMORPG since EQ has been easy mode.  Is figuring out what skills to pick really that difficult (in games like WoW)?  Maybe if you bought your character on ebay...  What a stupid post.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by laokoko

Put it simply, just because you like sandbox game, dont' mean everyone else have to like sandbox game.

 

I totally agree. Honestly, If all of you guys played my sandbox games I would leave. I can't stand near 99% of this community as is.

You guys are like one big buzz kill. Please for the love of all that is holy stay in your themeparks, enjoy the tea cup rides.

lol, metalhead you are too funny man. I honestly love every one of your posts.